587 réponses à ce sujet

[android654]

When is that supposed to be?

[naughty99]

android654 wrote...

When is that supposed to be?

August

[android654]

I really want to like this game, but I was just blown away by Beyond and Watch Dogs so this pales in comparison. I'm going to need more than just creative ways to execute targets to get this on launch. The cartoony art direction isn't helping though...

Modifié par android654, 06 juin 2012 - 02:44 .

[Rockworm503]

Luc0s wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

There are different forms of sandbox play.
It doesn't have to be open world like Skyrim to be sandbox.
I'd argue a game like Deus Ex is more sandbox than that because different ways of tackling a mission is something I really love. Sure i love open world games too but if I had the choice I'd rather they make the game tight.
There's different styles everywhere. GTA is funner when you make your own fun.
Dishonored looks fun when you get creative with how you reach your objective.

You don't seem to understand what sandbox means.

GTA and Skyrim are sandbox because "you make your own fun". That is the very definition of sandbox.

Dishonored has nothing to do with sandbox.

You know if your going to just ignore what I said I"m going to do the same.
Something to do with sharks you say? oh ok.

[Sajji]

I'd love for immense difficulty myself, Lucos. I think Dark Souls has forever forced me to automatically play the hardest difficulty. I'm hoping for low HP relative to enemy attacks, and wider cones of vision for enemies.

Knowing you can play the entire game without fighting anybody is a great thing. The fact, according to one of the lead devs, that doing that is "hard", is even better. Excellent enemy AI is going to be key for this game.

No doubt God mode was on for the demo, like I said. It's not like he's going to die repeatedly on camera. They also knew beforehand where all the secret paths are. When we play, we got to discover that on our own.

I'm sure in discussion we'll say: "well, at the top there was a narrow board plank....teleport over, jump up to the ledge...teleport one more level, and you'll see a rat. Possess the rat, run past the guard, then you see a narrow hole..."

Can't wait to share secret pathways and secrets I'm general. Not all upgrades are available in one playthrough, either

[Addai]

Luc0s wrote...

Besides, the guy from Dishonored speficially said that Dishonored is NOT an open-world sandbox game. He really said that. So now I don't know anymore what to expect from this game.

I haven't followed it for very long, but have not heard anyone say it was open world sandbox- the opposite, in fact.  They've said it's based on hubs and is mission-driven.  Just that there would also be side things you could do which would affect your later game.

I like what I see so far.  Also like what I'm hearing about the care Arkane Studios puts into its PC version.  You can't take that for granted.

I'm not even looking at Watch Dogs because it's Ubisoft.

Modifié par Addai67, 06 juin 2012 - 02:59 .

[Sajji]

What special things is Arkane doing for the PC version?

It's good they put special care. Are they giving texture upgrades along with graphical enhancement?

[Addai]

Sajji wrote...

What special things is Arkane doing for the PC version?

It's good they put special care. Are they giving texture upgrades along with graphical enhancement?

I don't know about that, but on Bethsoft forum they were saying that past games they've made have had a lot of care put into the PC version and that they don't do lazy ports.  I'll keep an eye out for specifics.

[android654]

Addai67 wrote...
I'm not even looking at Watch Dogs because it's Ubisoft.

Then you're going to miss out This is going to be one of the best games to come out before the next wave of consoles.

[Addai]

I play on PC, and I won't do always-on DRM. I don't care how magnificent the game is.

[android654]

I know you play on PC, but you guys are held by console availability for multiplatform games. Besides, it's not released yet so we don't know what DRM if any is tied to the PC version.

[Sajji]

What is Watch Dogs' release date?

Dishonored is coming out October 9th.

[android654]

It hasn't been announced yet, but it's for pc, ps3 and 360. It appears to have gone alpha already, so I'm assuming some time late next year.

[naughty99]

Luc0s wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

There are different forms of sandbox play.
It doesn't have to be open world like Skyrim to be sandbox.
I'd argue a game like Deus Ex is more sandbox than that because different ways of tackling a mission is something I really love. Sure i love open world games too but if I had the choice I'd rather they make the game tight.
There's different styles everywhere. GTA is funner when you make your own fun.
Dishonored looks fun when you get creative with how you reach your objective.

You don't seem to understand what sandbox means.

GTA and Skyrim are sandbox because "you make your own fun". That is the very definition of sandbox.

Dishonored has nothing to do with sandbox.

Dishonored is definitely a sandbox game. It's not a huge open world, but within each area of the city you explore, it's free roam. The focus is on emergent gameplay and player authored narrative, not cutscenes and corridors.

The devs set up the systems as a sort of simulation and the player is free to do whatever they want. You can finish the entire game without even fighting anybody if you feel like it.

It's not linear levels, like in the Mass Effect series, for example. 

You're wrong on multiple levels.

1) Free roam =/= sandbox. There is a difference. Dishonored is neither though, from what I saw and heard. Every mission and part of the story is set in a very specific level specifically tailored for that very specific event. You have to go from A to B and kill target X, Y and Z. Sure, you can plan your own route from A to B and there are multiple approaches, but that is not what I see as "free roam" and it DEFINITELY is NOT sandbox.

2) Dishonored does not provide player-authored narrative. Unless you understand something differently under "player authored narrative" than I do. But in Dishonored, you play a linear story, with a certain set of misions that play in a set order, where you have a assasinate a set amount of targets. Everything is authored by the game, not the player. The only thing you as the player decide is HOW you're going to kill those targets.


Assassin's Creed is sandbox. GTA is sandbox. Skyrim is sandbox. Dishonored is not sandbox.

I've never played Assassin's Creed or GTA, so I can't comment on those games.

As for Skyrim, yes I'd agree it is certainly an open world, sandbox game. The open world aspect is one part of it and the sandbox gameplay is another. Often they go hand in hand, but a game does not need to be open world to contain sandbox gameplay features. 

"Sandbox" in game development terms simply means, you set up the underlying game systems, give the player the tools to do what they want and let them play in the sandbox.

Granted, there may be a spectrum of sandbox qualities, with, say a completely open simulation game with all kinds of complex systems at one end and linear platform game like super mario brothers at the other end, and there is still a lot we don't know about Dishonored yet.

But we do know that it lies somewhere within that spectrum, as the level design is not linear, but a sandbox simulation. The designers set up the systems, provide the player with the tools to do what they want and let them play in the sandbox. It's a smaller sandbox than Skyrim, but it is still a sandbox. How well they pulled it off remains to be seen.

While you are actively playing a game, making choices and taking actions you feel your character would take, you are participating in authoring the narrative. When you are passively watching pre-rendered cut scenes, you are not participating in authoring the narrative. 

The complexity and believablity of the simulated world is what drives the quality of that emergent narrative. For example, if NPCs respond realistically to your actions, etc., there is a stronger suspension of disbelief, and the narrative is more engaging.  

Luc0s wrote...

Besides, the guy from Dishonored speficially said that Dishonored is NOT an open-world sandbox game. He really said that. So now I don't know anymore what to expect from this game.

Can you point me to where he made this statement? I've seen a number of print, web and video interviews would seem to contradict that. It is not an open world game, but from all the information we have so far, it certainly seems to be a sandbox game.


- "Dishonored is “the sandbox of assassination” says creative director, Raphael Colantonio

- "a sandbox game that enables the player to explore how they want to play with the magnificent tools, the possession, teleporting, stopping time. "

- Dishonored: An Assassination Sandbox That Doesn't Penalize Sociopaths

Modifié par naughty99, 06 juin 2012 - 03:35 .

[Sajji]

android654 wrote...

It hasn't been announced yet, but it's for pc, ps3 and 360. It appears to have gone alpha already, so I'm assuming some time late next year.

I'm interested in it, too, but its too far away to get pumped about. I'll keep an eye on it. Dishonored, on the other hand, is 4 months away.

I want to see real gameplay that takes place in different areas from the gameplay trailer. Those strider-looking machines are going to bring back so much nostalgia when I'm battling them. I also can't wait to see more of the plague-infested areas.

[Sajji]

^^ Naughty99's middle link has links to great interviews for general information about the game for those seeking more developer insight.

Modifié par Sajji, 06 juin 2012 - 03:32 .

[Addai]

android654 wrote...

I know you play on PC, but you guys are held by console availability for multiplatform games. Besides, it's not released yet so we don't know what DRM if any is tied to the PC version.

Ah, I see what you meant.  Well, if Ubisoft repents of their crappy and intrusive DRM, I'll look into it then.  Otherwise you're just throwing money at a game that sooner or later (maybe straight out of the box) isn't going to work.  I'd rather throw my money down holes marked European Vacation or Books I Might Read Someday.

[slimgrin]

Addai67 wrote...

android654 wrote...

I know you play on PC, but you guys are held by console availability for multiplatform games. Besides, it's not released yet so we don't know what DRM if any is tied to the PC version.

Ah, I see what you meant.  Well, if Ubisoft repents of their crappy and intrusive DRM, I'll look into it then.  Otherwise you're just throwing money at a game that sooner or later (maybe straight out of the box) isn't going to work.  I'd rather throw my money down holes marked European Vacation or Books I Might Read Someday.

Ubisoft considers their drm policy a success. They aren't gonna change. 

[naughty99]

Luc0s wrote...

naughty99 wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

Besides, the guy from Dishonored speficially said that Dishonored is NOT an open-world sandbox game. He really said that. So now I don't know anymore what to expect from this game.

Can you point me to where he made this statement? I've seen a number of print, web and video interviews would seem to contradict that. It is not an open world game, but from all the information we have so far, it certainly seems to be a sandbox game.


- "Dishonored is “the sandbox of assassination” says creative director, Raphael Colantonio

- "a sandbox game that enables the player to explore how they want to play with the magnificent tools, the possession, teleporting, stopping time. "

- Dishonored: An Assassination Sandbox That Doesn't Penalize Sociopaths

Here it is:




Check the video from 3:54 onwards. There he says it.

Are you sure you have the right video clip? He doesn't say anything at all here about sandbox features. He just says that it's not an open world game, which we already knew since the game was announced almost one year ago.

Here is all he says at that point in the interview:

Q: How is the game structured? Is it a series of missions taking out a series of targets?
Colantonio: This is not an open world. This is mission after mission, very well-crafted missions. 

Luc0s wrote...
I hope the secret pathways and secrets are more diverse than in Deus Ex: Human Revolution. That game usually gave us only 2 or 3 different paths that we could take and they were always the same. It was always a bit like: here you can sneak past the area through a ventilation shaft, here you can find a shortcut if you move away that vending machine and here you can take the backdoor in, but you have to hack it first. Almost every room in Deus Ex had these 3 different approaches. It was always 1) ventilationshaft, 2) removing vending machine or 3) hack a locked backdoor. Not much diversity. 

I hope Dishonored will be different and give us more diversity.

 

Choosing whether you want to possess a fish or a rat seems like a lot more fun options than moving vending machines around in DXHR

In one of the recent interviews, they have mentioned there are 8-10 different ways to approach every mission, including in some case, for example, simply talking with NPCs, and other non-violent approaches. In fact, you can complete the entire game with non-violent approach, without killing a single enemy.

Modifié par naughty99, 06 juin 2012 - 12:34 .

[Morroian]

Luc0s wrote...

Here it is:




Check the video from 3:54 onwards. There he says it.

You know so what. Whether its a sandbox or not isn't a qualitative measure.

[Il Divo]

Honestly, both Dishonored and Watch Dogs look incredible. I'm leaning slightly more towards Dishonored, since I love the stealth/assassin style, but I'm definitely picking up both.