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[who would know]

Casey Hudson in gameinformer magazine

"He's kind of the entry point for when something bizarre happens. The new player is probably thinking the same thing that Sanders[Vega] is."

I'm wondering about the sentiment behind a greenhorn introductory character in ME3. I feel the concept is ill-advised.

Why would anybody with little to no knowledge of the first two thirds of a trilogy pick up the third and final act, and expect to be anything but lost? I can't fault wanting to jump blind into the trilogy with ME3. It's gonna be the best yet. That's not the issue.

The issue is that time and energy is being spent to write a character that for veterans will be redundant, and for newcomers will be an unexpected source of demystification, maybe appreciated, maybe not.
 
Also... Business wise, does it not make sense that the first 2 installments are necessary in understanding the story as a whole? No one installment should stand alone or self contain, but Vega begs to differ. Vega fills in the holes, instead of keeping them curiosities that the player wants to satiate by buying and playing what came before.


Thoughts?

[batman22]

They wont be lost, remember the inter active comic a the start of the game that brings you up to speed with the fist two games.

[mineralica]

Some percentage of newcomers exists no matter what - for example, I've started TES series with Oblivion, played Morrowind a bit later and it's unlikely will be able to play Arena. So, get lost, lady?

Others might just forget what happened in previous games (not everyone still replay ME2, let alone ME1), lost their discs, etc. etc. One character as an optional reminder about previous events is really nice - better than NPCs counting protagonist a goldfish anyways.

And... major moments in plot which aren't explained "because you know it from previous games" don't make people buy other games. The only reaction it causes is "wtf is going on who are that people?". "Wow the events they talk about should be epic!" does.

[Blooddrunk1004]

batman22 wrote...

They wont be lost, remember the inter active comic a the start of the game that brings you up to speed with the fist two games.

That comic book was very badly and half assed written.

[Finis Valorum]

mineralica wrote...

And... major moments in plot which aren't explained "because you know it from previous games" don't make people buy other games. The only reaction it causes is "wtf is going on who are that people?". "Wow the events they talk about should be epic!" does.

To be fair we do have an in game (voiced) codex for that and they could also just expand that with an ask EDI feature on the Normandy so Vega is hardly neccessary for that.
Between the in game codex and the "previously on Mass Effect" comic I don't think newcomers would neccessarily have any trouble getting up to speed.

[SalsaDMA]

He's there because of marketing, nothing else.

"This is the BEST TIME to enter the franchise!!!", remember?

They're still refusing settle for their fans and keep looking hungrily at the selling figures of some games from rival companies that are conceptually different genres entriely (or should be, before marketing affected the development).

What puzzles me is why EA is driving all of their non-sports divisions into the same frame of reference, instead of spreading out towards different segments. It seems like they are splitting the world up into sport games and non-sports games, which is crude, to say the least.

[SalsaDMA]

mineralica wrote...

Some percentage of newcomers exists no matter what - for example, I've started TES series with Oblivion, played Morrowind a bit later and it's unlikely will be able to play Arena. So, get lost, lady?

Others might just forget what happened in previous games (not everyone still replay ME2, let alone ME1), lost their discs, etc. etc. One character as an optional reminder about previous events is really nice - better than NPCs counting protagonist a goldfish anyways.

And... major moments in plot which aren't explained "because you know it from previous games" don't make people buy other games. The only reaction it causes is "wtf is going on who are that people?". "Wow the events they talk about should be epic!" does.

Regarding TES, I started with daggerfall, tried morrowind and also oblivion. There's noting tying the games together naratively aside being placed in the same world of reference. I can't even remember if they are different time periods or not, that's how little connected they are. In ME series there is an intimately tied story in 3 acts (or at least, that's what they promised us), so how you can compare TES with ME in this regard is beyond me. There is no comparison possible at all in relation to keeping up with the story.

Having played daggerfall or morrowind meant nothing for me when I played oblivion.

[Confused-Shepard]

Hey remember how that character in the 7th Harry Potter book ran around going, "HEY GUYS! WHAT'S GOING ON? DERP DERP!!"

No, because most storytellers don't give a damn about newcomers by the last few editions of the story. The fans came with the first or even the second game. They are absolute idiots if they play Mass Effect 3 first and frankly good for them.

James Vega is a waste of scales... skin... whatever !

Modifié par Confused-Shepard, 16 juillet 2011 - 12:17 .

[DaringMoosejaw]

SalsaDMA wrote...

He's there because of marketing, nothing else.

"This is the BEST TIME to enter the franchise!!!", remember?

They're still refusing settle for their fans and keep looking hungrily at the selling figures of some games from rival companies that are conceptually different genres entriely (or should be, before marketing affected the development).

What puzzles me is why EA is driving all of their non-sports divisions into the same frame of reference, instead of spreading out towards different segments. It seems like they are splitting the world up into sport games and non-sports games, which is crude, to say the least.

Because if they plain give up on trying to sell their product to more people - you know, the entire point of running a business - they're going to go OUT of business and no-one will bother investing any energy for future projects. Expanding the market is the only reason why Mass Effect 3's coming out as soon as it is, if at all.

[Finis Valorum]

Confused-Shepard wrote...

Hey remember how that character in the 7th Harry Potter book ran around going, "HEY GUYS! WHAT'S GOING ON? DERP DERP!!"

No, because most storytellers don't give a damn about newcomers by the last few editions of the story. The fans came with the first or even the second game. They are absolute idiots if they play Mass Effect 3 first and frankly good for them.

James Vega is a waste of scales... skin... whatever !

I agree however video games are somewhat different from books movies and television but they could still tastefully resolve this by adding an ask EDI feature (new voiced codex) for new players. That way new players lured in by the "this is the best time to enter the franchise line" from marketing would get their info, no permanent companion slot needs to be wasted and we existing players won't have to ask EDI these questions and everyone is satisfied.

[Confused-Shepard]

DaringMoosejaw wrote...

SalsaDMA wrote...

He's there because of marketing, nothing else.

"This is the BEST TIME to enter the franchise!!!", remember?

They're still refusing settle for their fans and keep looking hungrily at the selling figures of some games from rival companies that are conceptually different genres entriely (or should be, before marketing affected the development).

What puzzles me is why EA is driving all of their non-sports divisions into the same frame of reference, instead of spreading out towards different segments. It seems like they are splitting the world up into sport games and non-sports games, which is crude, to say the least.

Because if they plain give up on trying to sell their product to more people - you know, the entire point of running a business - they're going to go OUT of business and no-one will bother investing any energy for future projects. Expanding the market is the only reason why Mass Effect 3's coming out as soon as it is, if at all.

Still doesn't explain why James Vega exists. I saw the new pic and groaned. Was Jacob not enough? 
Another boring human soldier. At least Jacob was intelligent, this guy seems total neandrathal
WE'RE IN SPACE! Where are the cool aliens? 

[DCarter]

Mass effect has a wealth of resources to help new comers understand what's going on shoehorning James Vega into the equation seems unnecessary. I'd of much rather learnt more about existing characters than have time and disk space wasted introducing a new human characters who so far seems utterly uninteresting. Of course i could be wrong, we'll have to wait and see.

[XyleJKH]

Quit your whining everyone. Geeze you doing like a bunch of 8 year olds. Its not stupid, a new character is not a bad idea. Get over it and move on. Man its like you people just wany to complain about something just for the sake of complaining.

[who would know]

New players diving right into ME3? The more, the merrier. Expand the market. However, I do doubt that Vega's concept for new players as a rock in the storm is expected by new players as a selling point, will be appreciated by new players, or even that it makes sense from a business standpoint to allow the final part of a trilogy to be a stand alone experience. You skip 2/3 of a trilogy? You best be ready for some confusion. Game will be fun of course, but you're gonna want to go back for the complete story. Unless Vega scratches that itch, that is. Then it's ME3 and done.

XyleJKH wrote...

Its not stupid, a new character is not a bad idea.

It's the concept behind this particular new character that troubles. Read thread, share thoughts.

Modifié par who would know, 16 juillet 2011 - 12:45 .

[BatmanPWNS]

Theres always a new character in EVERYTHING with a sequel.

[who would know]

Not the point.

[essarr71]

who would know wrote...

New players diving right into ME3? The more, the merrier. Expand the market. However, I do doubt that Vega's concept for new players as a rock in the storm is expected by new players as a selling point, will be appreciated by new players, or even that it makes sense from a business standpoint to allow the final part of a trilogy to be a stand alone experience. You skip 2/3 of a trilogy? You best be ready for some confusion. Game will be fun of course, but you're gonna want to go back for the complete story. Unless Vega scratches that itch, that is. Then it's ME3 and done.

I'm selling a really great toaster!  Oh, but to know how to use it, you need to buy these two older toasters.

Ignoring the fact that you could just not talk to Vega, it IS possible that his fuction will be well written and unfold in an interesting way.  Just because he's there to be a bridge for new players doesnt mean it won't be subtle or interesting.

I just struggle to see why you think keeping new players out is a good idea.

Modifié par essarr71, 16 juillet 2011 - 12:56 .

[Aligalipe]

Many people don't want to play with old graphics. As long as its good i can play any game regardless of graphics but many can't stand the old graphics. So they don't buy the first game.

[Finis Valorum]

essarr71 wrote...

I'm selling a really great toaster!  Oh, but to know how to use it, you need to buy these two older toasters.

I'm selling a really great toaster!  Oh, but to know how to use it, you need to buy these two older toasters  be able to read and understand the manual.

The codex or an ask EDI feature for new players combined with the "previously on Mass Effect comic" would work just as well though and are less likely to annoy players who aren't new to the trilogy.

Modifié par Finis Valorum, 16 juillet 2011 - 01:02 .

[essarr71]

Finis Valorum wrote...

I'm selling a really great toaster!  Oh, but to know how to use it, you need to buy these two older toasters  be able to read and understand the manual.

The codex or an ask EDI feature for new players combined with the "previously on Mass Effect comic" would work just as well though and are less likely to annoy players who aren't new to the trilogy.

Yeup.. cause telling people they need to read up on a huge glossary to understand a game is a HUGE selling point.  (hey guys!  Before you play, we have 300 pages for you to read so you know about the genophage!)

Seriously, cors the codex could do the job.. but having a guy like Vega is more attractive as an approuch for a new player.  And as I stated before, it's not like he'll open up his mouth and talk like a codex.  It's very possible older players might find conversing with him interesting.

My toaster comment was more geared toward the OP trying to guide newer players to older stuff, which is just a horrible idea for a business.

[javierabegazo]

What trilogy has not included a new character somewhere?

[Finis Valorum]

essarr71 wrote...

Finis Valorum wrote...

I'm selling a really great toaster!  Oh, but to know how to use it, you need to buy these two older toasters  be able to read and understand the manual.

The codex or an ask EDI feature for new players combined with the "previously on Mass Effect comic" would work just as well though and are less likely to annoy players who aren't new to the trilogy.

Yeup.. cause telling people they need to read up on a huge glossary to understand a game is a HUGE selling point.  (hey guys!  Before you play, we have 300 pages for you to read so you know about the genophage!)

Seriously, cors the codex could do the job.. but having a guy like Vega is more attractive as an approuch for a new player.  And as I stated before, it's not like he'll open up his mouth and talk like a codex.  It's very possible older players might find conversing with him interesting.

An ask EDI feature could cover all the points you make for Vega and asking EDI about the genophage for example could indeed also be fun for older players if they keep the AI's deadpan delivery.

[CroGamer002]

Out of 17 squadmates in previous 2 games, only 1 is 100% in ME3( Liara) and 2 50%( Ashley and Kaidan do to Virmire).


Few new squadmates are necessary.
Plus it wouldn't make any sense for Liara to be on Alliance ship without Shepard say so.

[essarr71]

Finis Valorum wrote...

An ask EDI feature could cover all the points you make for Vega and asking EDI about the genophage for example could indeed also be fun for older players if they keep the AI's deadpan delivery.

So it's not function, you're just against a new character to fill the role.. got it.

[Darth Death]

For someone that has been with ME since day one, "Vega's concept as entry point for newcomers" does pose a sense of disinterest. But as stated he is meant for the people who probably didn't play the last two previous games. I can't say if I would like the presents for someone like him on my squad. Hopefully there's a "no duh" or "have you been living under a rock" options of dialogue.