129 réponses à ce sujet

[Finis Valorum]

Art3mShepard wrote...

I don't like the big guy soldier-tank concept. Big guys were nessesery in medieval when there wasn't firing guns. In modern caombat the smaller the soldier is the better. Just because when you are small you are not making a good target for your enemy.

That's what I was thinking too, unfortunately it's been confirmed they want a bigger role for melee combat in ME3.

[fenix8081]

Personally, the concept behind him experiencing everying in a "holy s@#$" manner seems pretty awesome to me. It'll be interesting to see a character react to this craziness from an outside perspective. Even all the characters we picked up in ME2 never reacted this way. They almost all reacted like this was a normal situation. I think that'll make for good conversations and may lead to his character being more developed than some of the other human characters. Especially if he experienced some crazy stuff during the invasion before meeting up with Shepard.

[Laminator]

Also, if Vega's being written well, he could be serving less of an 'oh let me remind you about what you did and learned in the first two games' device and more of a character that players feel they can empathize with.

I know when I first played ME1, the universe was so complex and you seemed to dive head first into the middle of it, I was feeling spectacularly frazzled until about a third into the game. I feel that if done right, Vega could also serve to be an emotional connection to the game as well.

[Finis Valorum]

One word, Codex.
If additional exposition is needed beyond that it could be handled in any number of ways (like asking your friendly AI or through optional branches in various conversations with minor characters, or just those minor characters talking amongst themselves and you can either stop to listen to it or just walk by) that would not require a dedicated character for that purpose.

[SeaSquared]

as has been said,if he is implemented well and he can be at least partially ignored when he explains obvious things then it'll be fine, there were times that ME2 allowed you to ask a question that made sense but an ME1 player likely would not need to ask, so I didnt ask them.

What will be annoying is if the whole game we have him explain/ask about/whatever stuff that a veteran would have no need for.

as an example in the very first mission of Halo 3 the player has to look around to progress, an obvious tutorial on aiming, but If they play on heroic (the "true" difficulty of halo) or above they skip that as it is a sign that they know what they are doing.

edit: also it wouldnt be too bad to finally know whats going on more than an NPC for once in a video game where the player is pretty much always that idiot that doesnt understand anything about the universe they allegedly have lived in all their life.

Modifié par SeaSquared, 16 juillet 2011 - 08:30 .

[CroGamer002]

DTKT wrote...

Do you really need a character to help you ease into the story? Does he really need to be a squadmate?

Kaidan - can die on Virmire instead of Ashley
Ashley - can die on Virmire instead of Kaidan
Wrex- can die on Virmire
Garrus - can die in Suicide Mission
Tali- can die in Suicide Mission or not be recruited
Liara - 100% in ME3
Jacob - can die in Suicide Mission
Miranda - can die in Suicide Mission
Mordin - can die in Suicide Mission
Kasumi - can die in Suicide Mission or not be recruited
Zaeed - can die in Suicide Mission or in loyalty mission or not be recruited
Grunt - can die in Suicide Mission
Jack - can die in Suicide Mission
Thane - can die in Suicide Mission or not be recruited
Samara - can die in Suicide Mission or in loyalty mission or not be recruited
Morinth - can die in Suicide Mission or in loyalty mission or not be recruited
Legion - can die in Suicide Mission or be sold to Cerberus



We need new squadmates.
With James Vega we also have opportunity to also help new players and for Shepard to be a mentor again like with Garrus in ME1.

[Lucifer_Cheney]

As long as it means he asks the newbie questions instead of Shepard (e.g. Whats a Collector?), then I'm all for it.

[Finis Valorum]

SeaSquared wrote...

as has been said,if he is implemented well and he can be at least partially ignored when he explains obvious things then it'll be fine, there were times that ME2 allowed you to ask a question that made sense but an ME1 player likely would not need to ask, so I didnt ask them.

What will be annoying is if the whole game we have him explain/ask about/whatever stuff that a veteran would have no need for.

Since  Mr. Hudson seems to believe even veteran Mass Effect players cannot be bothered to remember the state of the galaxy I think your first option is far too subtle and not nearly streamlined enough for ME3, remember that according to marketing ME3 is gonna be the best point to enter the trilogy even if that means we must have a mandatory character to hold our hands for at least the entire first act of the game.

All in all your second option seems far more likely and you can bet these explanations won't be skippable for at least the first act of the game. The best we can hope for is that we can leave him on the ship beyond the first act.

[Darth Death]

javierabegazo wrote...

Darth Death wrote...

For someone that has been with ME since day one, "Vega's concept as entry point for newcomers" does pose a sense of disinterest. But as stated he is meant for the people who probably didn't play the last two previous games. I can't say if I would like the presents for someone like him on my squad. Hopefully there's a "no duh" or "have you been living under a rock" options of dialogue.

By that logic, As a player since ME1, None of the characters in ME2 are "meant" for me.

I speak only for myself. What generally caters to a new player I tend to find it exasperating.

[redbaron76]

Vega is just not for newcomers to the trilogy. If you shepard was killed in ME 2 you probably get to play as Vega. And since my shepard is still alive and kicking i will look for a place to Virmire Vega as soon as possible.

[Dreverr]

I suppose there will be a new female character to fill Kaidan's combat role since he can die on Virmire since Vega is a tank like Ashley.

[fenix8081]

redbaron76 wrote...

Vega is just not for newcomers to the trilogy. If you shepard was killed in ME 2 you probably get to play as Vega. And since my shepard is still alive and kicking i will look for a place to Virmire Vega as soon as possible.

I'm pretty sure if your Shepard dies the galaxy is SOL.  Don't think you'll be saving the galaxy as Vega since this is the end of Commander Shepard's story.

[fenix8081]

Finis Valorum wrote...

One word, Codex.
If additional exposition is needed beyond that it could be handled in any number of ways (like asking your friendly AI or through optional branches in various conversations with minor characters, or just those minor characters talking amongst themselves and you can either stop to listen to it or just walk by) that would not require a dedicated character for that purpose.

I've done multiple playthroughs and you want to know what...I definitely have not read or listened to all of the codex.  I know, blasphemy.  I plan on doing so right before ME3 comes out to get a little pumped, but any time I've ever tried to sit and read some I almost instantly become bored out of my mind...and I love this universe.

Problem is: I don't want to read, I want to play.  One of the best parts of ME is the character relationships and conversations.  Introducing the universe to latecomers by explaining what the hell is going on to the newbie seems like a great way to achieve both development for that character and Shepard while introducing the major events that have happened over ME1 and ME2.  It's not like Shepard will have to explain all the species and every codex entry, it can just be the big stuff...like Reapers and maybe Collectors.  I like that idea more than a comic.

[Siansonea]

Vega's an entry point for newcomers?

An entry point for newcomers?

Entry point? Newcomers?

*wink wink nudge nudge*

*leaves thread in disappointment*

[Luigitornado]

I think you numb skulls are over thinking this.

[Jimmy Fury]

I love the BSN. It's like a magic hyperbole factory.
"An entry point for when something bizarre happens" means "He will follow you around and explain everything in explicit detail leaving no mystery or intrigue and effectively turning the entire game into one of those really flashback heavy episodes of Naruto where they show you 16 of the 20 minutes of the last episode."
"new player will probably be thinking the same thing as Vega" means "He's also completely oblivious to everything that has ever happened before and has never even been to space so despite his amazballs ability to explain everything to you, he's also this completely green rookie who will not fit in with your elite squad of superawesomespaceheroes."
Some of you should be politicians the way your brains work. It's astounding.

I can't wait until the announce the new female character and everyone's wrath turns to her. I'm calling "She's a manstealing hussy who's only being added to make Liara jealous" right now. Nobody else gets to accuse her of that.

[who would know]

No hyperbole. Would simply rather the focus be shifted from content designed for new players that may actually go unappreciated by said newcomers, to content more considerate of ME veterans and more appropriate and logical for the climactic final act of a trilogy.

Mesina2 wrote...

We need new squadmates.

Absolutely. Do note however that a severely botched suicide mission is a deliberate construction, a special case that should naturally mean a more dire ME3.

[SalsaDMA]

Mesina2 wrote...

DTKT wrote...

Do you really need a character to help you ease into the story? Does he really need to be a squadmate?

Kaidan - can die on Virmire instead of Ashley
Ashley - can die on Virmire instead of Kaidan
Wrex- can die on Virmire
Garrus - can die in Suicide Mission
Tali- can die in Suicide Mission or not be recruited
Liara - 100% in ME3
Jacob - can die in Suicide Mission
Miranda - can die in Suicide Mission
Mordin - can die in Suicide Mission
Kasumi - can die in Suicide Mission or not be recruited
Zaeed - can die in Suicide Mission or in loyalty mission or not be recruited
Grunt - can die in Suicide Mission
Jack - can die in Suicide Mission
Thane - can die in Suicide Mission or not be recruited
Samara - can die in Suicide Mission or in loyalty mission or not be recruited
Morinth - can die in Suicide Mission or in loyalty mission or not be recruited
Legion - can die in Suicide Mission or be sold to Cerberus



We need new squadmates.
With James Vega we also have opportunity to also help new players and for Shepard to be a mentor again like with Garrus in ME1.

You are omitting something.

You cannot complete ME2 without having 2 squadmates survive.
You automatically get 2 squadmates in ME3 with Liara and VS.

That already puts you at 4 squadmates AS A BARE MINIMUM. As in if people really REALLY worked at killing their squadmates, they'd still have 4 people on their team, despite their best efforts to trim down the team.

That's only 2 less than a full squad in ME1 nad perfectly fine for completing the game if needs be.

So no. You don't NEED new squadmates. Stop pretending stuff that isn't true.

And I find it even more ridicilous when you consider that anyone in the bare minimum actively worked hard to get that far down and everyone else has a bigger contigent to pick from, even the 'casuals' that actually managed to complete the game. Basicly yo are telling people that worked with spreadsheets and such to be able to kill as many of their team as possible that their work should be for naught and shouldn't be rewarded. Nice going.

[armass]

Personally i think it's stupid for someone to start the series at the final act. It was pretty stupid for some to start it at the second act also, especially since the main guy goes and dies in the first 5 minutes(who was that guy, should i care that he died, oh look he's back, that was awkward...).

Modifié par armass, 17 juillet 2011 - 05:08 .

[T.Attwood]

fenix8081 wrote...

I've done multiple playthroughs and you want to know what...I definitely have not read or listened to all of the codex.  I know, blasphemy.  I plan on doing so right before ME3 comes out to get a little pumped, but any time I've ever tried to sit and read some I almost instantly become bored out of my mind...and I love this universe.

Problem is: I don't want to read, I want to play.  One of the best parts of ME is the character relationships and conversations.  Introducing the universe to latecomers by explaining what the hell is going on to the newbie seems like a great way to achieve both development for that character and Shepard while introducing the major events that have happened over ME1 and ME2.  It's not like Shepard will have to explain all the species and every codex entry, it can just be the big stuff...like Reapers and maybe Collectors.  I like that idea more than a comic.

I agree with this. While I think the ME universe is great, reading through pages of codex is tedious and not particularly fun (at least for me). Using Vega as the 'new guy' who doesn't know everything that Shepard has learned over the last two games, is useful and can be used as a way to remind the player of useful information just before (for example) a particular kind of battle, meeting old NPC's, etc.

One of the important things in ME is the characters and how they relate to the player. Players tend to like characters they can relate to or empathise with. I see this as creating scope for new players to the ME universe. Sequels of games tend to have diminishing sales because players know they will be jumping in to a universe late. And for those new players that do decide to take the plunge and attempt to join the universe (remember, this is unlikely to be the 'last' ME game), they need to have some kind of way of providing accessibility into the universe without overloading the player with huge amounts of information. This can be demoralizing and off-putting for new players, who may switch off and don't play it again.

So, creating a character like Vega provides that link to new or the more casual player who are unsure of the universe. While older characters 'could' have the same conversations with Shepard as Vega, it would seem weird for the narrative for these characters to be having the same conversations with Shepard as in previous games. It would be like Shepard has got amnesia. For all those who started playing from ME1, I am sure you will have the option of simply not using Vega. But please don't deny new players from joining the ME universe at this advanced stage, as we could still be in the early stages of the ME franchise. The larger the audience, the more effort Bioware can put into developing future games, and the more fun we will have when we play them. 

Modifié par T.Attwood, 17 juillet 2011 - 05:47 .

[silentfall]

SalsaDMA wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

DTKT wrote...

Do you really need a character to help you ease into the story? Does he really need to be a squadmate?

Kaidan - can die on Virmire instead of Ashley
Ashley - can die on Virmire instead of Kaidan
Wrex- can die on Virmire
Garrus - can die in Suicide Mission
Tali- can die in Suicide Mission or not be recruited
Liara - 100% in ME3
Jacob - can die in Suicide Mission
Miranda - can die in Suicide Mission
Mordin - can die in Suicide Mission
Kasumi - can die in Suicide Mission or not be recruited
Zaeed - can die in Suicide Mission or in loyalty mission or not be recruited
Grunt - can die in Suicide Mission
Jack - can die in Suicide Mission
Thane - can die in Suicide Mission or not be recruited
Samara - can die in Suicide Mission or in loyalty mission or not be recruited
Morinth - can die in Suicide Mission or in loyalty mission or not be recruited
Legion - can die in Suicide Mission or be sold to Cerberus



We need new squadmates.
With James Vega we also have opportunity to also help new players and for Shepard to be a mentor again like with Garrus in ME1.

You are omitting something.

You cannot complete ME2 without having 2 squadmates survive.
You automatically get 2 squadmates in ME3 with Liara and VS.

That already puts you at 4 squadmates AS A BARE MINIMUM. As in if people really REALLY worked at killing their squadmates, they'd still have 4 people on their team, despite their best efforts to trim down the team.

That's only 2 less than a full squad in ME1 nad perfectly fine for completing the game if needs be.

So no. You don't NEED new squadmates. Stop pretending stuff that isn't true.

And I find it even more ridicilous when you consider that anyone in the bare minimum actively worked hard to get that far down and everyone else has a bigger contigent to pick from, even the 'casuals' that actually managed to complete the game. Basicly yo are telling people that worked with spreadsheets and such to be able to kill as many of their team as possible that their work should be for naught and shouldn't be rewarded. Nice going.

Not all squadmates from previous games are returning as squadmates.  The only confirmed returning squadmates at this point are Kaidan/Ashley, Liara, Garrus, and Tali. 

[shepskisaac]

SalsaDMA wrote...
You cannot complete ME2 without having 2 squadmates survive.
You automatically get 2 squadmates in ME3 with Liara and VS.

That already puts you at 4 squadmates AS A BARE MINIMUM.

The point is that there's no chance they will create peram-squaddie scenario for all 13 characters from ME2 that could possibly end up being in the '2 survivors of the SM'. It's just not physically possible to do that, along with Liara, Kaidan, Ashley AND then entirely new characters in ME3.

[Sharpy33]

The Mass Effect: Genesis comic book did a good job of recapping Mass Effect 1's story but didn't give a lot of context for your decisions in the comic book. Still its hard to squeeze in 40 hours of story into a 15 minute comic book, and I'd say they did a good job.

[Lopake]

Some newcomers will buy ME3 because of the badass look of James Vega, but they will be suprrised to find out that he is a little more feminine than they thought.

Since James Vega is going to be bisexual, that opens the door for some hilarious dialogue if you think about it. While still being respectful to the gay community.

[ShadowSplicer]

As long as Vega's personality is at least something like this fan art, then he is at least tolerable to be neglected on the Normandy.