129 réponses à ce sujet

[javierabegazo]

LiquidLogic2020 wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

What trilogy has not included a new character somewhere?

What finial instalment of a trilogy diverted time away from other things to tell people that thought act three of three would be a good place to drop in whats happend up untill now?

Anyone who wants to make money.

[Meatlocker]

Honestly I am more interested in how they are going to work Vega as an entry point for newcomers.

[LiquidLogic2020]

javierabegazo wrote...

LiquidLogic2020 wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

What trilogy has not included a new character somewhere?

What finial instalment of a trilogy diverted time away from other things to tell people that thought act three of three would be a good place to drop in whats happend up untill now?

Anyone who wants to make money.

Commanly known as selling out, and as im sure we're all aware, nothing good comes of it. 

[Nizzemancer]

Would be nice if they added a checker to the character if you've imported a save that would make him not ask a bunch of dumb questions about everything, wich I'm sure he will. But ok, I can live with it anyway, but if he starts asking what eezo or the genophage is he's confined to quarters at minimum and dead if I'm allowed to send him on a one-man suicide mission against 300 reapers to test their defenses...

[javierabegazo]

LiquidLogic2020 wrote...

Commanly known as selling out, and as im sure we're all aware, nothing good comes of it. 

Also known as "Staying in Business". Do you want what happened to Pandemic to happen to BioWare?

[marshalleck]

javierabegazo wrote...

LiquidLogic2020 wrote...

Commanly known as selling out, and as im sure we're all aware, nothing good comes of it. 

Also known as "Staying in Business". Do you want what happened to Pandemic to happen to BioWare?

Frankly, yes. If the future of Bioware is more ME2 and DA2. 

[Ghost Lightning]

marshalleck wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

LiquidLogic2020 wrote...

Commanly known as selling out, and as im sure we're all aware, nothing good comes of it. 

Also known as "Staying in Business". Do you want what happened to Pandemic to happen to BioWare?

Frankly, yes. If the future of Bioware is more ME2 and DA2. 

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I loved ME2 D:

[DTKT]

javierabegazo wrote...

LiquidLogic2020 wrote...

Commanly known as selling out, and as im sure we're all aware, nothing good comes of it. 

Also known as "Staying in Business". Do you want what happened to Pandemic to happen to BioWare?

Wait, what. What does Pandemic has in common with Bioware? Yes, they are both owned by EA. The difference is that Merc2 was bad. ME2 was good.

I dont see your logic here.

And really, as a moderator of the official forum, is it really your place to discuss such matters. Most of the moderators I have seen tend to not pronounce themselves on such subjects. Just wondering here.

[Ghost Lightning]

javierabegazo wrote...

LiquidLogic2020 wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

What trilogy has not included a new character somewhere?

What finial instalment of a trilogy diverted time away from other things to tell people that thought act three of three would be a good place to drop in whats happend up untill now?

Anyone who wants to make money.

Poor choice of words here. 

[LiquidLogic2020]

javierabegazo wrote...

LiquidLogic2020 wrote...

Commanly known as selling out, and as im sure we're all aware, nothing good comes of it. 

Also known as "Staying in Business". Do you want what happened to Pandemic to happen to BioWare?

Yes, I want that to happen to anyone or any company that puts money ahead of a great 'product'. Lets put it this way, bande a part will allways be rembered for it's greatness whereas transformers the movie shall be forgotten like the money grabbing stain it was. Im actualy suprised that you've prettyy much admitted to putting money before a great product, admire the honesty though but is it realy your place to say such things?

Modifié par LiquidLogic2020, 20 juillet 2011 - 03:47 .

[LiquidLogic2020]

Ignor, internet freaked out.

Modifié par LiquidLogic2020, 20 juillet 2011 - 03:47 .

[KingDan97]

On the topic of OP's post. A "Vega" character is a necessity that in the past has been filled by Shepard. Before it was Shepard who didn't have as much experience. In ME1, they were the first human spectre, just got command of their own ship and had to learn about a much more expanded view of the galaxy than they previously had. In ME2, you were forced to if not change, at least challenge your preconceived notions about Cerberus, and the Terminus systems, since you were previously led to believe that they were only meant for those against the council.

I actually realized recently how much of a trainwreck a product without a new character can come off as. A show premiered on SyFy recently called Alphas. It's about a team of superpowered people. My first assumption was that the team would form in the pilot and move on from there, but it turned out that the team was already there, already doing there job and I was completely lost because they were talking about everything like I should know what the hell it meant right off the bat. It wasn't until a half an hour in that they introduced the fresh blood. Sure, he wasn't a normal guy but he was lacking perspective on the team's structure, just like I was and they passed it onto him, and tangentially, me.

Now you've got both of those perspectives in Shepard, you need more fresh blood for the newbies. As much as we all know damned well that they're jumping into the deep end by coming in on ME3, video games aren't looked at the same way as movies or TV or even books are. With a movie, you see it's a sequel and you feel that if you don't go back then you're missing out on important story details, and hey, it's only going to cost you a small chunk of money if anything, so why not? With a TV show, you really want to get into it but it's already the middle of the season, or onto the next, so you just go online and watch the old episodes on Hulu or another similar source.

Unfortunately though, games are seen as a bigger investment, when I first got my Xbox 360, it came with Halo 3, and Fable 2. I damn sure wasn't going to pay for Xbox 1 games to catch up on the story of Halo or Fable when there were so many good 360 titles on the market(Mass Effect was on the top of my list) and when I played I wasn't lost, because Fable was a fresh story in an existing world, and Master Chief was so dumb that if they didn't explain that the elites I'd used to kill at friends houses while ignoring the story were good then he would've opened up on them. You can pick up AC2 without playing AC1, you can pick up Oblivion without ever touching Morrowind, you can play Fable 3 without even caring about Fable 2 or 1. Gaming is not as linear as the games that make it up. Partly because games are seen as something you can just pick up as you please. The easier they make that, the better.

If I could get everyone who wants to play ME3 to get ME1 and ME2 first, I would. Unfortunately time is a resource most people don't have a lot of, and asking them to choke down almost 100 hours of gameplay to get to the game that just came out(an investment that could easily take the average gamer a month or 2 to pull off) is asking way too much, and it's not because they play CoD, or Halo, or because they're on a console or they didn't grow up on old school RPGs. It's because at the end of the day, the barrier to entry would be just way too damn high for a lot of people, and Bioware would just be scaring people away from all of their franchises, as opposed to encouraging new business and keeping Bioware profitable, although with the amount of vitrol thrown out at new players, maybe that's exactly what people are looking for by asking Bioware to remove integral parts to a lot of stories.

[Nizzemancer]

KingDan97 wrote...

On the topic of OP's post. A "Vega" character is a necessity that in the past has been filled by Shepard. Before it was Shepard who didn't have as much experience. In ME1, they were the first human spectre, just got command of their own ship and had to learn about a much more expanded view of the galaxy than they previously had. In ME2, you were forced to if not change, at least challenge your preconceived notions about Cerberus, and the Terminus systems, since you were previously led to believe that they were only meant for those against the council.

I actually realized recently how much of a trainwreck a product without a new character can come off as. A show premiered on SyFy recently called Alphas. It's about a team of superpowered people. My first assumption was that the team would form in the pilot and move on from there, but it turned out that the team was already there, already doing there job and I was completely lost because they were talking about everything like I should know what the hell it meant right off the bat. It wasn't until a half an hour in that they introduced the fresh blood. Sure, he wasn't a normal guy but he was lacking perspective on the team's structure, just like I was and they passed it onto him, and tangentially, me.

Now you've got both of those perspectives in Shepard, you need more fresh blood for the newbies. As much as we all know damned well that they're jumping into the deep end by coming in on ME3, video games aren't looked at the same way as movies or TV or even books are. With a movie, you see it's a sequel and you feel that if you don't go back then you're missing out on important story details, and hey, it's only going to cost you a small chunk of money if anything, so why not? With a TV show, you really want to get into it but it's already the middle of the season, or onto the next, so you just go online and watch the old episodes on Hulu or another similar source.

Unfortunately though, games are seen as a bigger investment, when I first got my Xbox 360, it came with Halo 3, and Fable 2. I damn sure wasn't going to pay for Xbox 1 games to catch up on the story of Halo or Fable when there were so many good 360 titles on the market(Mass Effect was on the top of my list) and when I played I wasn't lost, because Fable was a fresh story in an existing world, and Master Chief was so dumb that if they didn't explain that the elites I'd used to kill at friends houses while ignoring the story were good then he would've opened up on them. You can pick up AC2 without playing AC1, you can pick up Oblivion without ever touching Morrowind, you can play Fable 3 without even caring about Fable 2 or 1. Gaming is not as linear as the games that make it up. Partly because games are seen as something you can just pick up as you please. The easier they make that, the better.

If I could get everyone who wants to play ME3 to get ME1 and ME2 first, I would. Unfortunately time is a resource most people don't have a lot of, and asking them to choke down almost 100 hours of gameplay to get to the game that just came out(an investment that could easily take the average gamer a month or 2 to pull off) is asking way too much, and it's not because they play CoD, or Halo, or because they're on a console or they didn't grow up on old school RPGs. It's because at the end of the day, the barrier to entry would be just way too damn high for a lot of people, and Bioware would just be scaring people away from all of their franchises, as opposed to encouraging new business and keeping Bioware profitable, although with the amount of vitrol thrown out at new players, maybe that's exactly what people are looking for by asking Bioware to remove integral parts to a lot of stories.

Those games you've listed either contain no real elements that need explaining or aren't intertwined like the mass effect series.

It would be more like playing Star Craft 2 - Legacy of the void without playing any of the others than your comparison of Morrowind and Oblivion or Fable (the former taking place both in different times but also in entirely different regions while the latter series have all the games spaced out with 50 years between them)

As for Halo and Assassins Creed: You don't need to know anything, all you have to do is kill anything that can be killed that's carrying a weapon, and follow your waypoints, as far as I remember you can't kill the Arbiter in Halo 3 even if you try either.

[KingDan97]

Nizzemancer wrote...

KingDan97 wrote...

*snip*

Those games you've listed either contain no real elements that need explaining or aren't intertwined like the mass effect series.

It would be more like playing Star Craft 2 - Legacy of the void without playing any of the others than your comparison of Morrowind and Oblivion or Fable (the former taking place both in different times but also in entirely different regions while the latter series have all the games spaced out with 50 years between them)

As for Halo and Assassins Creed: You don't need to know anything, all you have to do is kill anything that can be killed that's carrying a weapon, and follow your waypoints, as far as I remember you can't kill the Arbiter in Halo 3 even if you try either.

Those points were made to illustrate common assumptions of the medium, not to illustrate scenarios close to ME. Things that people think they should be able to do and examples where you can reasonably do it, EA knows that a number after a name means much less to a consumer on a game than on a movie and I'm sure Bioware knows that too. Therefore they need to prepare for the reality that some people will assume they can just jump in, by preparing a fresh perspective who won't be up to date on the nitty gritty of everything that has happened in the last two games as well as some general galactic politics stuff.

And Assassin's Creed's story goes well beyond just stabbing everything that can be killed, that's not to say that the intricacies of the Altair story require a refresh for those who want to do the Ezio story, but that's their version of a Vega, creating a scenario where the basic tenants of the game and the lore surrounding it can be reexplored, more often then not killing everyone is just something you'd do between missions for some laughs.

I'm not saying that Mass Effect is a series that you should jump into at the end, but that since it's a game most people assume that it would be, since most games don't have the same story based restrictions. This allows an entry point, and for all we know Vega could be a very well written character(although looking back at Kaiden and Jacob, I have to say I doubt he will be personally but you never know). And even considering the fact that he's there as an introduction, that doesn't make him pandering to new players, they could easily set it up so that in you import his dialogue becomes less questioning, if there will be any of that.

The way I'm reading his inclusion is less about explaining things and more along the lines of being able to have a relatable position in the story for a new player, because a new player would be just as in awe about some of the things that are happening as he is.

[Soccer FeverMan]

Seboist wrote...

My biggest fear is that James will be a manifestation of all Shepard's dumbest moments from the past two games like comparing the genophage to the FCW, asking Tali if she's royalty, being surprised that Asari can mate with each other,etc

Right, those questions were so painful especiall comparing the genophage and FCW

[lsmoke]

will the interactive comic at the beginning cover all possible (major and game changing) choices in me1 and 2?

[ianvillan]

lsmoke wrote...

will the interactive comic at the beginning cover all possible (major and game changing) choices in me1 and 2?

I think they could cover all the choices from the first two games by showing shepards trial.

You could be the prosecutor and get to say the decisions that you made in the games, ie Shepard destroyed (or saved) the Rachni, Saved the council, Shepard saved the collector base etc.

This i think will be better than the comic by keeping the story ingame.

[sponge56]

im so glad that after everyone here has played me3, they have decided that James Vega was indeed a terrible squadmate. Thank god they have all logically come to this conclusion now, instead of judging him based on one picture months before the games release. that would be just ridiculous....

[deathbysteel]

I personally hope that recruiting vega will be optional and not mandatory in ME3, like garrus was in ME1. (not that I didn't recruit garrus, I'm referring to the option)

That way the newcomers can have their derpy (streetfighter named) greenhorn character which they can relate to, while the rest of us can tell him to kindly f*ck off when he starts begging to join the normandy crew.

edit: spelling

Modifié par deathbysteel, 21 juillet 2011 - 04:58 .

[JetsoverEverything]

deathbysteel wrote...

I personally hope that recruiting vega will be optional and not mandatory in ME3, like garrus was in ME1. (not that I didn't recruit garrus, I'm referring to the option)

That way the newcomers can have their derpy (streetfighter named) greenhorn character which they can relate to, while the rest of us can tell him to kindly f*ck off when he starts begging to join the normandy crew.

edit: spelling

your cool huh.

[xSTONEYx187x]

sponge56 wrote...

im so glad that after everyone here has played me3, they have decided that James Vega was indeed a terrible squadmate. Thank god they have all logically come to this conclusion now, instead of judging him based on one picture months before the games release. that would be just ridiculous....

He's not sophisticated (looking) enough for the Baldur's Gate/ Dungeon's and Dragon's RPG heads on the forum. 

[deathbysteel]

?? Not trying to the popular or something. A lot of people aren't In favor of the new guy. So optional recruiting seems like a good idea to me. The "cool" opinion would be to cry about his existence and tell bioware to include him in the game now wouldn't it?

[Arppis]

So just give up on new players? Please.

[Arppis]

marshalleck wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

LiquidLogic2020 wrote...

Commanly known as selling out, and as im sure we're all aware, nothing good comes of it. 

Also known as "Staying in Business". Do you want what happened to Pandemic to happen to BioWare?

Frankly, yes. If the future of Bioware is more ME2 and DA2. 

Good thing you don't have to play the future games then, huh?