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[Torax]

Lisa_H wrote...

Carver can be a bit of a jerk, but I still think he is an adorable little brother. I liked both Bethany and Carver. I have a younger bother and sister myself, so could easy relate to my Hawke as the big sister that wants to keep her siblings out of trouble. Therefore I rarely bring neither Bethany or Carver to the deep roads.

I always take them to the deep roads w/ Anders. From a mechanics stand point though. What this means is they return to me faster. Which is awesome. Especially in the case of Bethany. It gives me a healer after I always murder knife the ****** each and every time I play. He will ALWAYS die!!!

Modifié par Torax, 19 juillet 2011 - 06:47 .

[RampantAndroid]

Carver...well, I'm glad I did a warrior on my first play through. I don't think I could stomach him. Having a brother...there's the usual hate between siblings, and then there's the vitriol that Carver in the 5 minutes I saw of him evoked from me (combined with reading what happens if you leave him behind and all that.)

One of the things I wish they'd have changed is leaving your sibling around. Given that...Carver/Bethany never sees Kirkwall, Carver/Bethany (the one NOT dead) either: dies, joins the wardens and hates her new life, or is forced into the mages circle and hates you and never sees family...and then can even be betrayed by family in the end (Bethany being executed)...

And then you add that your mother is killed in act 2...I just don't get it. Gamlen at one point says the Amell/Hawke name suddenly means something...how? Everyone is dead or locked away. They just keep punishing the family.

Honestly, I wish Bethany would have remained around for the whole game. I'd give up Merril (or Sebastian) any day to keep Bethany around.

Torax wrote...

I always take them to the deep roads w/ Anders. From a mechanics stand point though. What this means is they return to me faster. Which is awesome. Especially in the case of Bethany. It gives me a healer after I always murder knife the ****** each and every time I play. He will ALWAYS die!!!

How do they return faster? They don't join you in act 2, and they join at the last quest during act 3, right? And hey, they say they hate life pretty much...

[Torax]

After the whole Murder Knife scene you hit a small group and run into the Grey Wardens. That is when your sibling would rejoin you. Otherwise they won't join you until you reach the Gallows.

edited to add.

Bethany is just different by the time you run into her either way. She's been used to being protected and to a point seemed to be happy and cheery since everyone else around her is generally down in the dumps. If she joins the Circle you will get a letter where she seems generally happy about a few things in the Circle. Such as enjoying teaching the young children there. So it's likely that despite the negative extremes of what the Circle is there in Kirkwall that it is the place she is best suited as opposted to the rough gloom and doom life of a Grey Warden.

Meanwhile Carver is used to being 2nd bannanna and having the path of his life generally laid out for him by others. That appears to be where most of anger comes from. He is still quite young after all. A teen by most accounts when you are first seeing him. Now with premise of the player giving him the letters so that he knows the origins of his name sake? It would have him joining the Templars thinking it's what he is supposed to do. While he does hate to hear about mages, I don't believe he truly hates them. Afterall he can't hate his family as well and he does seem rather pratical though immature as a 19 year old can be.

Once he joins the Grey Wardens he finds a path that is not one tied up in the chaos of his life in the past with Templars and Mages. He becomes a protector of all life and  is able to pave a path. Why I think he's far more at home in the Grey Wardens compared to his sister. Not to mention it would probably help him get revenge on those that took away his twin with each and every kill. He did get to see her death afterall.

Sure I don't like his attitude, but we weren't meant to truly like him. But he is still well done and at least in my opinion can have some very interesting self evolution based on the decisions you make.

Modifié par Torax, 19 juillet 2011 - 09:39 .

[Apollo Starflare]

Missed her dreadfully on my first playthrough. I had no idea the Deep Roads bit would play out that way and had planned to have her as a permanent member of my party, was a big shock but I didn't want to re-load and cheapen it.

[happy_daiz]

Is it bad that I don't miss THIS (my current) Bethany?

I necroed an abandoned male Hawke playthrough just last night, and remember why I stopped playing it. I had made the mistake of tweaking my Hawke at the beginning, instead of waiting until I could do it at the Black Emporium. The result was a very hideous Bethany, with pink eyeshadow, and brown dots for eyes. I apparently thought I was "too invested" at that point to start over, so I kept going...and then I abandoned the playthrough not long after that.

Long story short, I don't care about that Bethany. In fact, I plan to kill her off in the Deep Roads. The other, pretty Bethany(s) I do care about and miss. Waa. Strange how I like the pretty ones, and hate the ugly ones.

[RampantAndroid]

Torax wrote...

After the whole Murder Knife scene you hit a small group and run into the Grey Wardens. That is when your sibling would rejoin you. Otherwise they won't join you until you reach the Gallows.

edited to add.

Bethany is just different by the time you run into her either way. She's been used to being protected and to a point seemed to be happy and cheery since everyone else around her is generally down in the dumps. If she joins the Circle you will get a letter where she seems generally happy about a few things in the Circle. Such as enjoying teaching the young children there. So it's likely that despite the negative extremes of what the Circle is there in Kirkwall that it is the place she is best suited as opposted to the rough gloom and doom life of a Grey Warden.

Meanwhile Carver is used to being 2nd bannanna and having the path of his life generally laid out for him by others. That appears to be where most of anger comes from. He is still quite young after all. A teen by most accounts when you are first seeing him. Now with premise of the player giving him the letters so that he knows the origins of his name sake? It would have him joining the Templars thinking it's what he is supposed to do. While he does hate to hear about mages, I don't believe he truly hates them. Afterall he can't hate his family as well and he does seem rather pratical though immature as a 19 year old can be.

Once he joins the Grey Wardens he finds a path that is not one tied up in the chaos of his life in the past with Templars and Mages. He becomes a protector of all life and is able to pave a path. Why I think he's far more at home in the Grey Wardens compared to his sister. Not to mention it would probably help him get revenge on those that took away his twin with each and every kill. He did get to see her death afterall.

Sure I don't like his attitude, but we weren't meant to truly like him. But he is still well done and at least in my opinion can have some very interesting self evolution based on the decisions you make.

Oh, interesting - I'll probably replay once I finish this play through as a rouge and take her/anders along on the deep roads quest and see how I like that.

As for Carver...he was in Cailen's army, yes? He fought at Ostagar? He was very much planning his own life...

As for Bethany in the circle - yes. Her letter made her sound happy. She doesn't seem so happy
when you meet her in Act 2 at the end, in that she pretty much scoffs at you...but I guess that's her theme in act 2: "you somehow did something that caused me to get separated. Oh, and mom is dead."

[Torax]

That or you are looking at the entire situation the wrong way. You do realize you are coming across her in a time when everything is screwed up to hell and like all her friends just died and she had to be healed by the First Enchanter so she wouldn't die. So yeah lets have her all chipper and happy despite the fact that everything is F'd up to helll around her at that second...

[jamesp81]

*Raises hand*

Me.  I took Anders with me on the Deep Roads expedition, so at least she lived.  Haven't gotten far past that.  Hope she comes back in at least some capacity.  Really loved her character.  Makes me want to help out the mages.  Besides, she's family and Leandra was already having a hard enough time over Carver to then also 'lose' her daughter to the Grey Wardens.

Of the different outcomes available, though, I preferred the Warden recruitment.  I could not have lived with myself to let her be hauled off by Templars or killed by my own hand in the deep roads.  When I saw the cutscenes for her dying, I teared up more than a bit :crying:  I'm glad Bioware didn't show a grizzly death like when Hawke executes others, I couldn't have dealt with that.  At least as a Warden, she's alive, and by God, she's free.  It was the best I could do for her

I hope I have more of her in the later acts.

It's funny, though, that events in my life might've enhanced my appreciation for this character.  It might be too much info, but personally, I learned several years after my parents got divorced (I was 8 years old at the time) that they had originally intended to have two kids and were hoping for daughter.  That, obviously, didn't happen as I'm an only child.  I never thought about it much until the past few years.

It's really strange, actually.  Once I actually thought about it, I started wondering what she would've been like.  I wondered if she'd have been calm and collected like dad, saintly and serene like my dad's mom, or fiery and strong willed like mom.  Would she have had the razor sharp intellect of my mother, the intuitive intelligence of my father, or the deep abiding wisdom of my grandmother.  Would she have had my paternal grandfather's blue eyes (like I do), dad's hazel eyes, or mom's brown eyes?  Mom's bright smile, or dad's knowing grin?  How would she have handled mom and dad getting divorced?  Would she have been willing to put up with people to keep the peace, like me, or would she not take anyone's ****   classic rock or pop?  How many crappy boyfriends would I have had to kick the crap out of when she got that age:blink:  Small, fuel efficient car, muscle car, or pickup truck?

As I pondered all this stuff it was really rather strange.  And more than a little bit sad.

TLDR version, though, is that my life, as such, ironically caused me to appreciate this character a great deal.

Modifié par jamesp81, 20 juillet 2011 - 02:38 .

[jamesp81]

Heidenreich wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...

xRiseAboveThis wrote...

I never really missed Bethany, but I missed Carver so much after the Grey Wardens took him that I actually jumped up and did a dance when I saw him during the fight with the Qunari.

You missed Carver? I mean yeah, he had more depth than Bethany, but I swear if I had to hear him **** one more time about "being in my shadow."

This is the -best- part of Carver. If you have a younger or heck, even an older brother, he hits home on the brother feeling SO WELL.

You have to remember, as a Mage hawke, Carver is the ONLY one of the three kids who's not a special and unique snowflake. That would mean less time spent with dear-ol-dad because he'd be spending his time between Hawke and Bethany for training.

Bitter little brothers are SO MUCH BETTER then loving little sisters. Course, that might just because I don't HAVE a sister, and so I find it very difficult to relate ;p

Hey, I'm an only child, by all rights I should have no idea what having a brother or sister should be like.  Still, I quickly latched on to Bethany as the younger sister and I found an epic protective streak forming in a hurry.

My Hawke would gladly kill every damned Templar on the planet if that's what he had to do keep her safe.

[Huntress]

I miss them both.. is too bad how the story ends, am protective person in real life, if someone is trying to put my sister in jail just because she has a gift, I'll kill them.
Sending Beth to a circle-Jail or killing her are not good options for someone like me.

[jamesp81]

Huntress wrote...

I miss them both.. is too bad how the story ends, am protective person in real life, if someone is trying to put my sister in jail just because she has a gift, I'll kill them.
Sending Beth to a circle-Jail or killing her are not good options for someone like me.

Amen.  Freedom before slavery, and death before dishonor.