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Will there be an elven William Wallace? Who die liberating his people from tyranny?


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#51
Harid

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[quote]VampireSoap wrote...

Excuse me? They were first subjugated during an Exalted March, a war declared by the chantry on a "heathen nation." The entire reason why the Dalish are even migratory is because the Chantry riled public opinion against them, got a bunch of countries together, and sacked Halamshiral. Their fight is with the Chantry, just as much as with individual nations. In fact, it is precisely because the nations of Thedas and the Chantry are at war that it would be the perfect opportunity to reclaim some of their lost territory. The Dalish are scattered, but we know they have a meeting every ten years. It's entirely possible that, given the climate of the war, they could decide to exploit the situation, under a particularly charismatic leader, and start attacking Orlesian settlements in the Dales.

And to the above, a Scipio Africanus-like Tevinter against a Qunari Hannibal would be so sweet. :D

[/quote]

Precisely, once there is a world war taken place in the human world. The Elves would be very stupid if they just sit around and do nothing. This Mage-Templar conflict is not as simple as it looks, the writer has layed down some really good background for the progress of the DA story. (Despite DA2's story is not really interesting)

My guess is that, also, the Qun would not be sitting around while the chantry has lost its most powerful weapon -- the circle mages. There will be no counter methods to fight against the Qunari cannons...
[/quote]

They've done it once before.  It was the very reason they had the second exalted march ran on them, the fact that they wanted to be left alone rather than aiding the world with a Blight.  They sat there while the world was ravaged by darkspawn, and I expect them to sit there while the world is ravaged by Templars and Mages, as by every evidence we have seen with the Dalish, they want to be left alone.   This so called stupidity, as you call it is the general response the Dalish take with "human" conflicts, as the Dalish simply want to be left alone and have no reason to enter it, or concern themselves with the conflicts of humans.  It would literally, come out of nowhere, and this is likely a conflict that should occur later on, rather than jumbling up this current conflict.  The Dalish have no reason to trust either the Mages or the Templars in this struggle, and based on their attitudes in both games would not.   Templars generally  don't even mess with the dalish, and the mages haven't helped the dalish in the past.

And I don't expect the Qunari to sit around, but I contend that entering the conflict before it's close to it's conclusion is not a sound military strategy.  I wholeheartedly expect the mage/templar war to be averted by this cop out, though, it's what Bioware does.

Modifié par Harid, 18 juillet 2011 - 07:51 .


#52
Harid

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[quote]VampireSoap wrote...

Precisely, once there is a world war taken place in the human world. The Elves would be very stupid if they just sit around and do nothing. This Mage-Templar conflict is not as simple as it looks, the writer has layed down some really good background for the progress of the DA story. (Despite DA2's story is not really interesting)

My guess is that, also, the Qun would not be sitting around while the chantry has lost its most powerful weapon -- the circle mages. There will be no counter methods to fight against the Qunari cannons...[/quote]

They've done it once before.  It was the very reason they had the second exalted march ran on them, the fact that they wanted to be left alone rather than aiding the world with a Blight.  They sat there while the world was ravaged by darkspawn, and after the Blight was over,t he other nations of Thedas were angry with them for not helping, and I expect them to sit there while the world is ravaged by Templars and Mages, as by every evidence we have seen with the Dalish, they want to be left alone.   This so called stupidity, as you call it is the general response the Dalish take with "human" conflicts, as the Dalish simply want to be left alone and have no reason to enter it, or concern themselves with the conflicts of humans.  It would literally, come out of nowhere, and this is likely a conflict that should occur later on, rather than jumbling up this current conflict.  The Dalish have no reason to trust either the Mages or the Templars in this struggle, and based on their attitudes in both games would not.   Templars generally  don't even mess with the dalish, and the mages haven't helped the dalish in the past.

And I don't expect the Qunari to sit around, but I contend that entering the conflict before it's close to it's conclusion is not a sound military strategy.  I wholeheartedly expect the mage/templar war to be averted by this cop out, though, it's what Bioware does.

[/quote]

Modifié par Harid, 18 juillet 2011 - 07:53 .


#53
Rokky94

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I'm Scottish myself, if they did this I would be deeply offended. j/k :P

I think it would be cool to have a William Wallace type character that would unite the city elves and dalish elves into taking the fight to the humans.

Modifié par Rokky94, 18 juillet 2011 - 10:01 .


#54
Harid

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Going to take a fundamental change in the way city elves are treated by the dalish before that happens.

Which I wouldn't mind, but, I think it should be a slower burn than this current mage/templar conflict that has more holes in it than a June Bride.

As it is now they do not act like they are the same people.  City Elves are looked down on by the Dalish and Humans.  If I had it my way, the City elves would do it all by themselves, **** the Dalish, but eh.

Modifié par Harid, 18 juillet 2011 - 10:10 .


#55
Drasill

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I thought you were talking about the BioWare Austin developer named William Wallace.

#56
maxernst

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Why does William Wallace get more credit than Robert the Bruce?

#57
Harid

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maxernst wrote...

Why does William Wallace get more credit than Robert the Bruce?


Because of the movie "Braveheart".

#58
Alexander1136

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no because the Irish are awesome and elves blow...there stuck in the past and are persistent to believe that they'll always be second class citizens. until they start to grow a pair they wont ever be "free"

tho now that i recall shianni had the personality maybe not skills for this.  still they need to fx the elf design and make the elves less whiny and week. if they are to ever be free.

Modifié par Alexander1136, 19 juillet 2011 - 02:53 .


#59
Auroras

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Do the elves really want to be left alone? Lanaya talks about the prophecy that one day, the elves will have a homeland of their own. Surely they realize that, as a dying (ish) race, they can't afford to just sit around and wait for humans to destroy themselves.

#60
Harid

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They aren't actively making moves towards creating a homeland on anything that we've seen, nor are they trying to work with humans in any other area than Fereldan, through aiding in the Blight.

They believe interacting with humans is the reason they 'quickened', and breaking interaction with humans will allow them to grab past ageless glory.

As long as they stick to past glory, the Dalish will never move forward.

#61
Auroras

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Move forward as in age, or move forward as in progress socially/whatever else...?

#62
Giga Drill BREAKER

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maxernst wrote...

Why does William Wallace get more credit than Robert the Bruce?

Shouldn't that be, why does Mel Gibision get more credit than Robert the Bruce

#63
Harid

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Auroras wrote...

Move forward as in age, or move forward as in progress socially/whatever else...?

The latter of these two.

#64
Auroras

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I see. I agree, but think of it in terms of Native Americans. They tried to hang on to their culture for as long as they could-- you can't fault them for that.

#65
ProneToGlory

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VampireSoap wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

So long as elves look more like this:


I'm going to have a hard time giving a crap about them and whatever freedom fighting they want to get up to.

Now maybe if elves looked more like this:
Image IPB
I'd be able to take them seriously as a William Wallace type.

Iorveth is, simply, a very cool hero. But sometimes he's too harsh and cruel.



He has got to be the most bad ass hero I've ever seen in a game. Honestly, I usually hate elves, but Iorveth made me consider that maybe not all male elves are drag queens

#66
Sutekh

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Harid wrote...

They aren't actively making moves towards creating a homeland on anything that we've seen, nor are they trying to work with humans in any other area than Fereldan, through aiding in the Blight.

They believe interacting with humans is the reason they 'quickened', and breaking interaction with humans will allow them to grab past ageless glory.

As long as they stick to past glory, the Dalish will never move forward.

You are interpreting the whole Dalish nation based upon two clans we get to interact with. We have no clear idea of how the rest think and function, only that clans seem to be very different from one another. We know, for instance, that the clan in Rivain has settled among / close to humans. We also know that Velanna's clan has a much less xenophobic / anti-shemlen view than Velanna's herself, to the point of casting her out. 

I've seen nothing indicating a belief of quickening induced by interacting with humans. What we learn (from Harhen Paivel) is that humans caused it at some point in the past. We don't know how. It is also not clear that all Dalish believe in that past immortality.

Dalish views on city elves also seem less contemptuous than it seems. Pol is welcomed with open arms in the Dalish Warden's clan, and Lanaya, a city born elf, is Zathrian's First, and may even become Keeper.

As for this:

Harid wrote...
They've done it once before.  It was the very reason they had the second exalted march ran on them, the fact that they wanted to be left alone rather than aiding the world with a Blight.  They sat there while the world was ravaged by darkspawn, and after the Blight was over,t he other nations of Thedas were angry with them for not helping, and I expect them to sit there while the world is ravaged by Templars and Mages, as by every evidence we have seen with the Dalish, they want to be left alone.


This is only one possible version, and we know how "versions of historical facts" are reliable in Thedas. The Chantry's pretext for going against the elves in the Dales is the practice of "Dark Magic" and human sacrifices. It seems in fact to be more a territorial problem with Orlais, since only Orlais fought them at the beginning, and was losing badly enough they called other Andrastian nations for help (hence the Exalted March).

Dalish have fought Blights before, and were willing to do so or the very treaty wouldn't have existed to start with. Marethari mentions Dalish joining the Wardens in the past. And we don't know if Gaharel was Dalish or City born, but Gaharel is a Dalish name, so he may have been Dalish himself.

Regardless, there are past examples in history where long time immobilism has been shaken off by a series of events and the rise of strong leaders, often quite suddenly. Dalish wouldn't take side or involve themselves in the Mage/Templar conflict, but with a strong leader or two, they could take the opportunity of a severely weakened Chantry / Humans to seize a good chunk of territory for themselves. If they manage to unite with the city elves (and a strong, intelligent leader could pull that off), they could become a force to be reckoned with. Whether they would succeed is another story, but I can very well see them trying.

#67
HanErlik

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A mass rebellion can be great if it gives us a chance to purify Thedas from those freaks.

#68
Cutlass Jack

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Who is this Tranny the elves need liberation from?

#69
EnforcerGREG

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If you mean an Elven Robert the Bruce, who auctually won Scotland it's Indepedane untll the Union with England many centuries later then yes.Wallace is seriously over dramatisiesd becuse of Braveheart.

I can see the elves going to war against orlais to reclaim the dales or invading Teviner to free their bretherin regardless if they want it or not. The chantry has it's hands tied a the moment with the mge rebellion

Modifié par EnforcerGREG, 19 juillet 2011 - 10:08 .


#70
Gallimatia

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I don't want an elven nation. White Chantry elves are about as free as working class humans. Being Goldanna, Alistair's poor sister living near the alienage (according to lore not in game) doing laundy, isn't all that different from being a city elf. Arguably she'd be better of as an elf because she'd have a strong community to lean on. The everyday oppression and racism that is present could be reduced without a bloody civil war. Like how if the Warden was a city elf and used the background specific boon there were attempts to make things better.

#71
VampireSoap

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Gallimatia wrote...

I don't want an elven nation. .


Iorveth disapproves...:)