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[Gervaise]

Anders has just been giving my mage a hard time for not wanting to be a revolutionary leader and basically calling her a hypocryte because she is only where she is because her father kept his children out of the circle.  So she asks what was so bad about the circle and he replies that the chantry teach that all magic is a sin and that lots of mages commit suicide because of the guilt they are made to feel about being what they are and the restrictions that are placed on them.  Now I know this might be the situation in the Kirkwall chantry but I was asking about his experience of the circle, in other words in Ferelden, since that is where he grew up.  In origins I played a mage and I don't recall anyone telling her that her magical gifts in themselves were evil but that alligning with demons or using blood magic certainly is.  I recall the teaching of Andraste to be "magic was made to serve man, not rule over him." or words to that effect.  So magic is a gift of the maker but its misuse is a sin.   So is this merely Ander's viewpoint warping the actual teaching of the chantry or did I miss something somewhere?

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Typically the Chantry teaches that magic is a curse and a sin mages can never be freed from (though, as in all things, you may find individual practitioners who don't preach this) . Do you remember Keili in the Mage Origin and Broken Circle quest in DA:O? She's one of the mages you meet where you find Wynne, and ends up believing whole-heartedly that mages are evil and deserve the Rite of Annulment.

The teachings of Andraste have been interpreted different ways by different people. The White Chantry, what's in Ferelden and Orlais, teaches that "magic was made to serve man, not rule over him" means that mages must never be in positions of power over mundanes, and exist to serve in whatever capacity the Chantry dictates.

The Black Chantry, in the Tevinter Imperium, argued that Andraste's teaching was that magic must not be used to dominate men (ie. blood magic), and that mages should be free to have any other rights and powers that mundanes enjoy. How true they hold to this in the Dragon Age era is debatable.

In the Mage Origin I don't recall a great deal of importance being put on magic being evil, just that mages are watched carefully because their abilities can lead to all sorts of bad. Only blood magic got directly labelled as evil, to my recollection.

(Edited: Fixed one fact (thanks Tommy )

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 17 juillet 2011 - 11:07 .

[Marduksdragon]

Yup on the Mage Origin. You even get Templars like Greagoir who preface the "magic is a curse" part with "magic is a gift".

Far as Anders he lies about several things boldfaced to Hawke, which I've chalked up to either Varric's storytelling (IE: not knowing what was really said and inventing something to cover the space on events he knows happened) or Anders being possessed and his memory having been scrambled a bit by Justice occupying the same space. Until I actually see how DA2 plays out in the next game, I'm not calling Anders himself a liar for simply having facts wrong.

[Macropodmum]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

In the Mage Origin I don't recall a great deal of importance being put on magic being evil, just that mages are watched carefully because their abilities can lead to all sorts of bad. Only blood magic got directly labelled as evil, to my recollection.

I think is very much the case in Ferelden at least, in an Awakenings convo with Anders where he was talking about all his escapes, the warden can say along the lines of " I'm surprised they haven't executed you yet" to which he replies that they don't execute mages for being apostates and that they have to be sure they truly are malificarum before such drastic measures are taken

[Rifneno]

Gervaise wrote...

Anders has just been giving my mage a hard time for not wanting to be a revolutionary leader and basically calling her a hypocryte because she is only where she is because her father kept his children out of the circle.  So she asks what was so bad about the circle and he replies that the chantry teach that all magic is a sin and that lots of mages commit suicide because of the guilt they are made to feel about being what they are and the restrictions that are placed on them.  Now I know this might be the situation in the Kirkwall chantry but I was asking about his experience of the circle, in other words in Ferelden, since that is where he grew up.  In origins I played a mage and I don't recall anyone telling her that her magical gifts in themselves were evil but that alligning with demons or using blood magic certainly is.  I recall the teaching of Andraste to be "magic was made to serve man, not rule over him." or words to that effect.  So magic is a gift of the maker but its misuse is a sin.   So is this merely Ander's viewpoint warping the actual teaching of the chantry or did I miss something somewhere?

If your Hawke is asking him what's so bad about the Circle after having spent her life actively avoiding it, he's right, she is a massive hypocrite. Anyways, you should talk to Keili the next time you go through the Circle Mage origin. She's in the Chantry. She gets even more awesome during the Broken Circle, as the only mage that's pro-Annulment because genocide is the only way to clean their evil or some such lunacy.

In short, no, he's not warping the Chantry's teachings. The Chantry is probably warping Andraste's teachings. Maybe Andraste was a **** too, I don't know, we don't have the whole chantry doctrine to examine. (And that's reasonable when you consider the size of real world religious texts.) But yes, there's plenty of templars and Chantry members who preach hate. Look at Mother Petrice.

[Gervaise]

I don't think someone is a massive hypocrite when all they are doing is remaining open minded, particularly because events have unfolded in such a way that my mage girl has witnessed many abuses of magic and has suffered personally as a result and thus is willing to admit that may be keeping a close eye on the majority of mages might not be entirely bad.  As Fenris puts it, not everyone is as strong as my girl and able to withstand temptation.  Even a basically nice guy like Anders has been manipulated by the spirit world - in fact so far as I am concerned there is no difference between the demons and Justice and for that matter between Justice and the more fanatically minded templars.  
Also I think the person people are referring to is Cullen whom I did meet (and flirt with) in Origins and turns up again in DA2.   For me (at least as I am currently role playing it) the issue is not black and white and both sides are to blame in creating the current situation - which she has told both Meredith and Cullen to their faces.  Obviously she is going to have to come off the fence and take sides soon but given the choice she would far rather adopt the path of moderation rather than fanatical extremism.   As a result she has got to near the end of Act3 as a friend of both Anders and Fenris without compromising her beliefs (or me cheating by leaving people at home as they are usually both regular and valued party members - although I no longer take Anders to the Gallows as I am afraid he might kill Templers on sight).  Mind you I think neither of them can exactly understand what the other is doing there.

[Rifneno]

I forget whether it was Thrask of Cullen, but one of them touches on that. Everyone thinks they're the exception to the rule. They can see why mages need to be watched, but they don't need to be. And yes, it is totally hypocrisy.
No, I didn't mean Cullen. I repeatedly used female pronouns and I said mage. Not sure how you got Cullen out of that...

[Gervaise]

Please bear in mind that my mage was outside the circle because of a choice made by her parents.  They obviously lived a very low profile existence as did not attract attention.  As a result she started off very naive and thinking that all mages should be free because she really didn't know any different.  Then you are confronted by some very shocking truths about what mages get up to and it just makes her start to question her original assertions.  Unfortunately the game doesn't give you the option of turning yourself in but in a way she is under the scrutiny of the Templars and knows full well it is only her status as Champion that allows her to operate so openly.  But to some extent she has now accepted this and feels a degree of responsibility not to be the figurehead of some mage rebellion because she knows everyone will point to her and say, "that is what happens once a mage gets power, it goes to their heads".  This is not hypocrisy - it is pragmatism and being able to see the wider picture and realising she may actually do far more good for mages in the long run by adopting this approach.

[dragonflight288]

Hindsight is 20/20. Sometimes we walk away from a situation having heard what we WANTED to hear or interpreted what we WANTED to interpret from a person's statements or arguments and sometimes miss the entire point the other party was trying to make. I can easily see Anders leaving the Fereldan Circle honestly believing everything he tells Hawke, because that's what he honestly believed happened. Add in Justice/Vengeance and he will stop seeing the good things about Circle's.

Also add in Meredith, who was scarred by her mage sister and saw the worst of magic. She walked away believing EVERY mage is her abomination sister, or potentially so. She no longer was able to see that there are mages who are capable of resisting, and thus became a dictator because in her mind she was the only one with the answers.

Hindsight is a powerful tool, but if a strong emotion is added to it, it becomes a hindrance as sometimes many details are missed.

I am currently playing a Mage Warden, and after seeing Meredith, I honestly believe Gregoir is a good and honest man trying to do his best within a corrupt system. And Cullen in Origins (before Ostagar) says that there are several templars who discuss killing mages with glee. Anders is denied his family name. But we also see mages with more freedoms than the ones in Kirkwall. They are free to wander around the tower and study in the library, they can interact with other people. It is stated by more than one source (Anders, Orsino, Cullen) in DA2 that mages are locked in their cells. Tranquility is forced on mages who passed their Harrowing. I recognize it was only one sadistic templar, but Meredith did nothing to stop it either.

It is the entire system, which is endorsed by the Chantry that allows abuses to happen. But I don't deny the dangers an untrained mage poses to society.

[Rifneno]

Gervaise wrote...

Please bear in mind that my mage was outside the circle because of a choice made by her parents.  They obviously lived a very low profile existence as did not attract attention.  As a result she started off very naive and thinking that all mages should be free because she really didn't know any different.  Then you are confronted by some very shocking truths about what mages get up to and it just makes her start to question her original assertions.  Unfortunately the game doesn't give you the option of turning yourself in but in a way she is under the scrutiny of the Templars and knows full well it is only her status as Champion that allows her to operate so openly.  But to some extent she has now accepted this and feels a degree of responsibility not to be the figurehead of some mage rebellion because she knows everyone will point to her and say, "that is what happens once a mage gets power, it goes to their heads".  This is not hypocrisy - it is pragmatism and being able to see the wider picture and realising she may actually do far more good for mages in the long run by adopting this approach.

To clarify, I was not in the least calling you a hypocrite. As you say, the player isn't given the option of being in the Circle and believing in the Circle's basic idea should certainly be an option presented to the player. I mean from the perspective of someone in DA, who doesn't know that your Hawke is The Chosen One™, it's certainly hypocritical for an apostate to chastise someone for complaining about the Circle. Especially considering what the Circle has done to Anders. I don't remember the details on how he was taken because he tells the story only in rivalry and I never rival him, but he was taken forcefully from his parents. I vaguely recall that his mother was screaming as they took him away. Traumatic enough for a child. In Ferelden they locked him in solitary confinement (which many consider a form of psychological torture I might add) and tried to execute him for a murder the darkspawn obviously committed, even against a direct order from King Alistair or Queen Anora. In Kirkwall... well, lots of stuff, but most importantly was when they basically stole his lover's soul just to make an example out of him (his great crime being writing a letter that basically said "it sucks here").

And, you should really talk to Keili next time. At first she's in the Chapel praying for the Maker to cure her of her curse. If you ask what curse, she looks at you like you're an idiot and says "Magic, of course." And like I mentioned earlier, later on during the Broken Circle quest she just totally loses it. She thinks the Right of Annulment is the only way to "cleanse" the place. I think later on you can also suggest the Rite of Tranquility to her when she's raving madly and she thinks it's an awesome idea and volunteers to have her soul ripped out. The girl was just... messed up. Granted, she's the only mage there totally off her rocker because of the Chantry's preaching, but we only get to meet a handful of mages. And honestly, I don't really think Bioware had this mage-templar war even in consideration when DAO was written. That there were any seeds planted about the Chantry's hatemongering at all is surprising IMO.

dragonflight288 wrote...

Hindsight is 20/20. Sometimes we walk away from a situation having heard what we WANTED to hear or interpreted what we WANTED to interpret from a person's statements or arguments and sometimes miss the entire point the other party was trying to make. I can easily see Anders leaving the Fereldan Circle honestly believing everything he tells Hawke, because that's what he honestly believed happened. Add in Justice/Vengeance and he will stop seeing the good things about Circle's.

Doesn't mean it isn't true. No one ever calls BS on him, even Aveline whose husband was a Ferelden templar. And honestly, I can't imagine that rapes and such don't happen a lot. Douchebags that love to abuse power and drawn to jobs that let them abuse power. Templar fits that to a T. Toss in that it's damn near impossible to prove sexual assault with Thedas' technology (no DNA, ect.) and it's a recipe for horror.

[Marduksdragon]

Rifneno wrote...

Doesn't mean it isn't true. No one ever calls BS on him, even Aveline whose husband was a Ferelden templar. And honestly, I can't imagine that rapes and such don't happen a lot. Douchebags that love to abuse power and drawn to jobs that let them abuse power. Templar fits that to a T. Toss in that it's damn near impossible to prove sexual assault with Thedas' technology (no DNA, ect.) and it's a recipe for horror.

To be fair, basically the only time Anders speaks to Aveline is to insult her over that same Templar husband. So yeah, I can imagine Aveline not openly correcting Anders simply to keep herself from beating him senseless in the ensuing argument. Plus she says Wesley would be horrifed by Kirkwall when you first enter the Gallows.

You could say that about Guardsman, Soldier and any other position of authority, Rif. A lot of people who end up being those things aren't douchebags who abuse their power at all. Same with the Templars, although their circumstances are different. Considering there are more decent men who are named Templars than not, I'd go with the Order being pretty divided as far as douchebaggery is concerned--- particularly where it extends to rape. The mages in the Tower in Ferelden reacted with amusement to Cullen's obvious adoration of the female mage and tease her about it -- not horror as it would be if they thought she might be a target for rape because of his obsession. It's a different situation in Kirkwall where you have Kerras and Alrik openly raping and abusing people and Meredith supporting them. If we can't judge mages by the actions of a few, we can't do that to the Templars either.

Modifié par Marduksdragon, 17 juillet 2011 - 07:56 .

[Rifneno]

Marduksdragon wrote...

To be fair, basically the only time Anders speaks to Aveline is to insult her over that same Templar husband. So yeah, I can imagine Aveline not openly correcting Anders simply to keep herself from beating him senseless in the ensuing argument. Plus she says Wesley would be horrifed by Kirkwall when you first enter the Gallows.

First, not true at all.  They converse about as much as any other two party members.  And he never insulted Wesley. I see people occasionally dramatize it "he said the most horrible, vile things! omg! my dog got cancer from hearing them! my brother is a heroin addict because of what Anders said to Aveline!" but he was clearly just making a joke about sexual roleplaying.  Isabela is a lot more antagonistic with her and a lot more vulgar too, but nobody ever complains about that.  I wonder why...  Anyway, Aveline is an antagonistic pain in the ass herself.  She starts crap with half of the party.  A maxed out friendship Hawke included.  Aveline is not one to hold her tongue to avoid an argument.

You could say that about Guardsman, Soldier and any other position of authority, Rif. A lot of people who end up being those things aren't douchebags who abuse their power at all. Same with the Templars, although their circumstances are different.

I never said they all were.

Considering there are more decent men who are named Templars than not, I'd go with the Order being pretty divided as far as douchebaggery is concerned--- particularly where it extends to rape. The mages in the Tower in Ferelden reacted with amusement to Cullen's obvious adoration of the female mage and tease her about it -- not horror as it would be if they thought she might be a target for rape because of his obsession. It's a different situation in Kirkwall where you have Kerras and Alrik openly raping and abusing people and Meredith supporting them. If we can't judge mages by the actions of a few, we can't do that to the Templars either.

"Yes, there's nothing romantic about the scenario in my mind. I imagine it would be very quick, very violent, and only undertaken as a way to get her out of his system." - Sheryl Chee, Bioware writer. And according to the wiki, she wrote the mage origin and broken circle. Which, I presume, means she's Cullen's writer. And it's pretty hard to take anything away from that quote except "he'd rape and murder her." It's always the ones you least suspect...

[Marduksdragon]

Rifneno wrote...

Marduksdragon wrote...

To be fair, basically the only time Anders speaks to Aveline is to insult her over that same Templar husband. So yeah, I can imagine Aveline not openly correcting Anders simply to keep herself from beating him senseless in the ensuing argument. Plus she says Wesley would be horrifed by Kirkwall when you first enter the Gallows.

First, not true at all.  They converse about as much as any other two party members.  And he never insulted Wesley. I see people occasionally dramatize it "he said the most horrible, vile things! omg! my dog got cancer from hearing them! my brother is a heroin addict because of what Anders said to Aveline!" but he was clearly just making a joke about sexual roleplaying.  Isabela is a lot more antagonistic with her and a lot more vulgar too, but nobody ever complains about that.  I wonder why...  Anyway, Aveline is an antagonistic pain in the ass herself.  She starts crap with half of the party.  A maxed out friendship Hawke included.  Aveline is not one to hold her tongue to avoid an argument.

You could say that about Guardsman, Soldier and any other position of authority, Rif. A lot of people who end up being those things aren't douchebags who abuse their power at all. Same with the Templars, although their circumstances are different.

I never said they all were.

Considering there are more decent men who are named Templars than not, I'd go with the Order being pretty divided as far as douchebaggery is concerned--- particularly where it extends to rape. The mages in the Tower in Ferelden reacted with amusement to Cullen's obvious adoration of the female mage and tease her about it -- not horror as it would be if they thought she might be a target for rape because of his obsession. It's a different situation in Kirkwall where you have Kerras and Alrik openly raping and abusing people and Meredith supporting them. If we can't judge mages by the actions of a few, we can't do that to the Templars either.

"Yes, there's nothing romantic about the scenario in my mind. I imagine it would be very quick, very violent, and only undertaken as a way to get her out of his system." - Sheryl Chee, Bioware writer. And according to the wiki, she wrote the mage origin and broken circle. Which, I presume, means she's Cullen's writer. And it's pretty hard to take anything away from that quote except "he'd rape and murder her." It's always the ones you least suspect...

It's up to interpretation on his intent. I hear him slandering Wesley- specifically because he asked Aveline if he was as dirty and perverted as all the Templars. Had it just been about the games, as it would have been from Isabela, that would have been different and Aveline comes to be friends with Isabela, but he prefaces it as a slam. I've been listening to their conversations throughout the day as I run around with them-- four out of five long convo bites today have mentioned the Templars somewhere although only the insult directly about Wesley. So I'll give you that, only once so far today directly on Wesley's case. Whatever else he is, he's also Aveline's husband and dead. Just as it would be rude to take cheap shots at annoying!Hawke over the death of his/her family members it's the same here. As far as Aveline's attitude- that doesn't give anyone liscense to be rude to her about her dead husband.

Still, Aveline did say Wesley would be horrified over Kirkwall-- and while she didn't say it to Anders, she did say it to Hawke.

Gaider's comments are totally different in that he said he wanted to whisk the F!Mage away somewhere and keep her all to himself (even joking about another tower and him being creepy enough to want to brush her hair). And he was also the writer that worked on Cullen. Cullen's always been a little wierd, but even among his writers they can't agree what he would do with the F!Mage. By their actions the mages in the Tower still don't feel threatened by him or for his obsession with the F!Mage. Both are a source of humor.

http://social.biowar...468638/3#469012

That should take you directly to Gaider's comment. No wiki involved.

Modifié par Marduksdragon, 17 juillet 2011 - 09:53 .

[dragonflight288]

I personally think that when a mage can joke about a templar having a crush on a mage, things aren't as bad as they are in Kirkwall, where mages have less freedom than everywhere else.

[erilben]

Marduksdragon wrote...

Gaider's comments are totally different in that he said he wanted to whisk the F!Mage away somewhere and keep her all to himself (even joking about another tower and him being creepy enough to want to brush her hair). And he was also the writer that worked on Cullen. Cullen's always been a little wierd, but even among his writers they can't agree what he would do with the F!Mage. By their actions the mages in the Tower still don't feel threatened by him or for his obsession with the F!Mage. Both are a source of humor.

In that topic you are refereing to, Gaider said he wouldn't be the one to write a Cullen romance because Sheryl Chee wrote him. But if he did write a Cullen romance, it would be very creepy. I don't see how Gaider's comments make Cullen look much better.

Also I'm not sure you can say none of the mages felt threaten by Cullen because there's a mage in Witch Hunt that says Cullen was creepy and she's glad he is gone.

Modifié par erilben, 17 juillet 2011 - 09:50 .

[Marduksdragon]

David Gaider
Joined: 2009-07-16

Report this post Quote Link Created about 1 year ago, Modified about 1 year ago
If I wrote a Cullen "romance" it'd have to be creepy as hell.


Cullen: I just want you to know... I love you.
PC: I love you, too.
Cullen: No, no... I REALLY love you!
PC: Er... and I love you, too.
Cullen: You don't understand! I think about you all the time, every waking moment! I look at you and I... I want to touch your skin! I want to brush your hair!
PC: I don't...
Cullen: Ever since I saw you in the mage tower I wanted to protect you. Keep you somewhere safe. FOREVER.
PC: ...
PC: ...awkward.

no mention of Sheryl.

Yes. I know. And Witchhunt takes place after the events of Broken Circle where Cullen was deranged and otherwise unhinged by what happened to him.

[erilben]

Marduksdragon wrote...

David Gaider
Joined: 2009-07-16

Report this post Quote Link Created about 1 year ago, Modified about 1 year ago
If I wrote a Cullen "romance" it'd have to be creepy as hell.


Cullen: I just want you to know... I love you.
PC: I love you, too.
Cullen: No, no... I REALLY love you!
PC: Er... and I love you, too.
Cullen: You don't understand! I think about you all the time, every waking moment! I look at you and I... I want to touch your skin! I want to brush your hair!
PC: I don't...
Cullen: Ever since I saw you in the mage tower I wanted to protect you. Keep you somewhere safe. FOREVER.
PC: ...
PC: ...awkward.

no mention of Sheryl.

Yes. I know. And Witchhunt takes place after the events of Broken Circle where Cullen was deranged and otherwise unhinged by what happened to him.

David Gaider: "For one, Cullen isn't my character (he's Sheryl's)."
http://social.biowar...dex/468638&lf=8

[Marduksdragon]

erilben wrote...

Marduksdragon wrote...

David Gaider
Joined: 2009-07-16

Report this post Quote Link Created about 1 year ago, Modified about 1 year ago
If I wrote a Cullen "romance" it'd have to be creepy as hell.


Cullen: I just want you to know... I love you.
PC: I love you, too.
Cullen: No, no... I REALLY love you!
PC: Er... and I love you, too.
Cullen: You don't understand! I think about you all the time, every waking moment! I look at you and I... I want to touch your skin! I want to brush your hair!
PC: I don't...
Cullen: Ever since I saw you in the mage tower I wanted to protect you. Keep you somewhere safe. FOREVER.
PC: ...
PC: ...awkward.

no mention of Sheryl.

Yes. I know. And Witchhunt takes place after the events of Broken Circle where Cullen was deranged and otherwise unhinged by what happened to him.

David Gaider: "For one, Cullen isn't my character (he's Sheryl's)."
http://social.biowar...dex/468638&lf=8

Alright. I'll give you that. Still doesn't indicate that Cullen was considered dangerous by the mages prior to Broken Circle-- or that even all the writers agree about him despite working together. Gaider is amused by him. His creator considers him dangerous. Since I'm not advocating dating him, just that the mages didn't consider him a threat despite being weird, it still holds.

[Rifneno]

Marduksdragon wrote...

It's up to interpretation on his intent. I hear him slandering Wesley- specifically because he asked Aveline if he was as dirty and perverted as all the Templars. Had it just been about the games, as it would have been from Isabela, that would have been different and Aveline comes to be friends with Isabela, but he prefaces it as a slam. I've been listening to their conversations throughout the day as I run around with them-- four out of five long convo bites today have mentioned the Templars somewhere although only the insult directly about Wesley. So I'll give you that, only once so far today directly on Wesley's case. Whatever else he is, he's also Aveline's husband and dead. Just as it would be rude to take cheap shots at annoying!Hawke over the death of his/her family members it's the same here. As far as Aveline's attitude- that doesn't give anyone liscense to be rude to her about her dead husband.

No, once in the entire game about Wesley. And let's look at that exchange.

Anders: So you married a templar, huh?
Aveline: What of it?
Anders: Are they all as dirty as they seem?
Aveline: What?
Anders: Did he ever ask you to play “the naughty mage and the hapless recruit?” Maybe the “secret desire demon and the upstanding knight?”
Aveline: That's disgusting!
Anders: I hear it's quite popular.

First of all, he didn't accuse Wesley of a damn thing. Even if he did imply it as a fact and not a question, which he didn't, what kind of prude thinks there's something wrong with roleplaying? So I say, matter-of-factly, Anders did not insult Wesley to provoke her. Because he didn't insult Wesley, for one thing. I could go on about the banter near that where Aveline tries to get Anders to give her advice on killing mages, but I think enough mountains have been made out of molehills.

Still, Aveline did say Wesley would be horrified over Kirkwall-- and while she didn't say it to Anders, she did say it to Hawke.

Gaider's comments are totally different in that he said he wanted to whisk the F!Mage away somewhere and keep her all to himself (even joking about another tower and him being creepy enough to want to brush her hair). And he was also the writer that worked on Cullen. Cullen's always been a little wierd, but even among his writers they can't agree what he would do with the F!Mage. By their actions the mages in the Tower still don't feel threatened by him or for his obsession with the F!Mage. Both are a source of humor.

Uh-huh. And until DA2 retconned it so he could be in Kirkwall instead, a mage boon ending without an annulment had Cullen going OJ Simpson on a bunch of innocent apprentices and then escaping and roaming the countryside a wanted fugitive. He's a psychopath.

dragonflight288 wrote...

I personally think that when a mage can joke about a templar having a crush on a mage, things aren't as bad as they are in Kirkwall, where mages have less freedom than everywhere else.

So? Things are better in a Vietnamese POW camp than Kirkwall's Circle.

[Marduksdragon]

Rifneno wrote...

No, once in the entire game about Wesley. And let's look at that exchange.

Anders: So you married a templar, huh?
Aveline: What of it?
Anders: Are they all as dirty as they seem?
Aveline: What?
Anders: Did he ever ask you to play “the naughty mage and the hapless recruit?” Maybe the “secret desire demon and the upstanding knight?”
Aveline: That's disgusting!
Anders: I hear it's quite popular.

First of all, he didn't accuse Wesley of a damn thing. Even if he did imply it as a fact and not a question, which he didn't, what kind of prude thinks there's something wrong with roleplaying? So I say, matter-of-factly, Anders did not insult Wesley to provoke her. Because he didn't insult Wesley, for one thing. I could go on about the banter near that where Aveline tries to get Anders to give her advice on killing mages, but I think enough mountains have been made out of molehills.

Still, Aveline did say Wesley would be horrified over Kirkwall-- and while she didn't say it to Anders, she did say it to Hawke.

Gaider's comments are totally different in that he said he wanted to whisk the F!Mage away somewhere and keep her all to himself (even joking about another tower and him being creepy enough to want to brush her hair). And he was also the writer that worked on Cullen. Cullen's always been a little wierd, but even among his writers they can't agree what he would do with the F!Mage. By their actions the mages in the Tower still don't feel threatened by him or for his obsession with the F!Mage. Both are a source of humor.

Uh-huh. And until DA2 retconned it so he could be in Kirkwall instead, a mage boon ending without an annulment had Cullen going OJ Simpson on a bunch of innocent apprentices and then escaping and roaming the countryside a wanted fugitive. He's a psychopath.

Word for word doesn't give the tones of voice that it's delivered in. Anders is hostile, not teasing like Isabela. And her husband's dead. Asking what sex acts you got up to with your dead husband if you aren't even close to someone is rude. Yes, I listened to that conversation too-- and she doesn't want to kill anyone (although I'm sure it may come to that in some cases) , just be prepared to deal with them in case her guards are attacked by rogue mages.

Cullen has post traumatic stress disorder at the end of the game from being held prisoner without his lyrium, food, water and being tortured for weeks. That would make anyone behave like a psychopath. I would have taken a "Hunt Down Crazed Cullen"  DLC had it been offered, but it wasn't, and now it's different.

Also-- Sheryl also says this:

Sheryl Chee wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Between your misogyny and love of tragic romances, it might be better that you didn't go down that path.

I have gone down that path in my mind, and yes, it's nasty. Cullen is totally FUBAR'd.

Creature 1 wrote...

Sheryl Chee wrote...
I
know right! I'm totally shocked by this too. If I'd known how popular
he'd be, I would've written in some kind of closure for him and the
femMagePC.

What do you think of him??  Is he tragic oppressed lad or creepy stalker nutcase? 

I'd
say he starts out tragically oppressed with some tendencies towards
creepy stalker (I think you'd have to be, to be a templar). He ends up, I
believe, completely broken mentally and emotionally and hates both
himself and the femMagePC. I think nothing, not even love, can redeem
him. He's too far gone. Of course, that's not canon, it's just my take
on it, and I revel in the angst and the pain.

from here http://social.biowar...583364/2#593386

Modifié par Marduksdragon, 17 juillet 2011 - 10:33 .

[Rifneno]

Marduksdragon wrote...

Word for word doesn't give the tones of voice that it's delivered in. Anders is hostile, not teasing like Isabela.

No he's not (hostile).

And her husband's dead. Asking what sex acts you got up to with your dead husband if you aren't even close to someone is rude. Yes, I listened to that conversation too-- and she doesn't want to kill anyone (although I'm sure it may come to that in some cases) , just be prepared to deal with them in case her guards are attacked by rogue mages.

And I'm sure she has no idea how to deal with mages after being married to a templar?

[Marduksdragon]

Rifneno wrote...

Marduksdragon wrote...

Word for word doesn't give the tones of voice that it's delivered in. Anders is hostile, not teasing like Isabela.

No he's not (hostile).

And her husband's dead. Asking what sex acts you got up to with your dead husband if you aren't even close to someone is rude. Yes, I listened to that conversation too-- and she doesn't want to kill anyone (although I'm sure it may come to that in some cases) , just be prepared to deal with them in case her guards are attacked by rogue mages.

And I'm sure she has no idea how to deal with mages after being married to a templar?

Second banter. Sounds at least antagonistic to me. In fact all of their banter is increasingly antagonistic.

Listening to a Templar about mages is not the same as listening to a mage about mages.

[TEWR]

what have I stumbled into?

[Torax]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

what have I stumbled into?

atm it seems people disagree about Anders' tone when he was being a ****** to Aveline. Better question is which companion he isn't a ****** to from Act 2 on? lol



Trick Question. He's only not a ****** if you don't take him with you  

Modifié par Torax, 18 juillet 2011 - 02:46 .

[Sinaxi]

Lol, I'm sorry but Anders questioning Aveline about...

Anders: So you married a templar, huh?
Aveline: What of it?
Anders: Are they all as dirty as they seem?
Aveline: What?
Anders: Did he ever ask you to play “the naughty mage and the hapless recruit?” Maybe the “secret desire demon and the upstanding knight?”
Aveline: That's disgusting!
Anders: I hear it's quite popular.

Is just really funny to me, because I can totally see it being true. Come on, someone playing a "naughty mage" for a Templar? Oh man, this reminds me of that one scene between Morrigan and the Templar on the docks. Probably the greatest thing ever.



That guy was totally hoping to have a little naughty mage fun-time. Until Morrigan scared him completely senseless. Ohhh, Morrigan.