174 réponses à ce sujet

[Auroras]

Haexpane wrote...

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

 DA 2 is better,i think people hate DA 2 just beacouse its different, ?

Yep you are correct, everyone hates everything different.  That's why I'm still wearing the same diaper as I had on as a 2 year old.  I don't like anything different?

Please try harder

The hypochondriac in me screams in horror.

[csfteeeer]

Eurhetemec wrote...

There are a lot of ludicrous claims on these boards, and in this very thread - particularly the unsupportable and silly suggestion that "most" or "virtually all" DA players dislike DA2 - even on this forum, the most poisonous well of DA2-hate on the entire internet, polls make it 50/50 as to which is preferred

No is not.
 this place is mixed, but there are other places that hate this (and prefer Origins) far more than here(ex: Gamespot.
Defending DA2 there might just get you flagged)
DA2 has a very mixed place here, some say is better, some(most) say is worse, some say is s**t...
the characters, some prefer them, others prefer the ones in Origins, others say they're S**t...
the art design(such as the darkspawn), some liked it more, others liked it less, others(most) say that is S**t...
and so on.

also, you probably haven't seen this polls, the main page is right here, but i will put them and detail them here anyway.

Poll Number 1: DA2, Yay or Nay?
by the time i made this, DA2 is losing with Yay at 46% percent, Nay at 54% (Number of Voters:1541)

Poll Number 2: DAO, Yay or Nay?
by the time i made this, DAO is winning with a crushing 90% saying Yay (Voters:1129)

Third and Final Poll: DAO or DA2? or do you like them equally?
by the time i made this, DAO is winning with 65% of the votes, 22% voted for " i like them equally", and DA2 gets the to be near dead last by only having 13% of the voters, only having more votes than "liked neither"(Voters:1285)

obviously, this is not every single person in the forums, but given it's high numbers, it gives a good idea, with the forums siding with DAO.
any discussion you want to make, the link is up there, and here again, just as reminder

Modifié par csfteeeer, 19 juillet 2011 - 04:25 .

[CSick]

my problem with the differences between the two games is that the changes they made basically removed a lot of the things i loved about the first game, and games in general. i thought origins had the perfect amount of customization without making character development seem daunting or tedious.

if they made the game simpler in order to streamline the gameplay, then i would say that they even failed at that. for example, reducing the number of armor and weapon shops didn't make the game any easier, it just meant having to check every one after every mission to see which seemingly random goodies would appear. this only magnified the already maddening tediousness of this game.

and the tediousness, is why i would argue that even as a stand-alone game, DA2 is pretty bad. depending on which order you complete the quests, there are times when you can literally be running around through the same small set of rooms over and over again for hours. its like an atari game that reuses levels, but they just change the color. except, they didn't even do that. instead, i have to keep going to the same stupid boat house, fight the same dudes at the same stupid dock, and stare at the same stupid ship headed nowhere. any game that did that to me would be bad in my eyes, regardless of what expectations i had for it.

the one thing i will give you, is that the story does have an epic feel, and i did enjoy the characters. HOWEVER, after spending so many hours replaying Origins in order to craft the perfect story to carry over to DA2, i was extremely dissappointed by how little the stories actually had to do with each other, and how the seemingly monumental decisions i made in Origins and even Awakening had little to no effect on DA2. in some cases, things like the survival of the Architect, even directly contradicted the choices i made in the previous games.again, if any series did this, i would deem it as unacceptable.

[Yrkoon]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

 I think only the people who expected a clone as origins were dissapointed in DA 2.

Again, NO.  That's not true.

We didn't have Our eyes and ears closed in the  months and months  before DA2 came out, when Bioware was  showing us these changes, and demonstrating the game play, and promoting the  new shiny stuff.   We watched, and debated/discussed just about everything.   And many of us  (about 400,000  of us, in fact) kept open minds and even Pre-ordered the game based on what we saw.

But it wasn't until we finally got our hands on the game and got to play it, that we got hit with the glaring,  irredeemable flaws that infest the entire game.  Flaws that we were never  shown or warned about.  Stuff like re-used maps, terribly mindless   combat encounters, generic loot.  Repetition of everything... over and over and over and over.


  Get this through your head already and stop trying to  dismiss our arguments as simplistic  fear of change:  we didn't dislike DA2 because it was different than Origins.  We disliked DA2 because  it was a Bad Game

Modifié par Yrkoon, 19 juillet 2011 - 11:30 .

[Chromie]

Haexpane wrote...

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

 DA 2 is better,i think people hate DA 2 just beacouse its different, ?

Yep you are correct, everyone hates everything different.  That's why I'm still wearing the same diaper as I had on as a 2 year old.  I don't like anything different?

Please try harder

lmao best response ever.

[Dandynermite]

Are. You. Completey. And. Utterly. Out. Of. Your. Mind?

DA:2 wipes Origins ass...

[iggy4566]

DA2 a game where ya hate it or love it.

[Fallstar]

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

 DA 2 is better,i think people hate DA 2 just beacouse its different,you need to except the changes.Origins was an epic game.DA 2 isn't,its better,its not so epic but its personal,emotional and much great other things.If you exept that DA 2 is not meant to be a clone of origins,but something unique and great,youl see that DA2 is great and different from origins.I love both games, 10/10 for both games.But i like 2 a little bit more cuz of isabella :DDD.Why do some of you hate the story,compainons and the advanture of DA 2.I understand repetable enviroment and enemies appearing out of thin air.But if you ignore that the game has Epic sountrack,Awesome companions...Why do you hate  it?

Most of what you lost at the end is based on opinion. In my opinon, Origins soundtrack was far better than that of DA:2 (although the Florence & the Machine song in the credits was great), and in my opinion, the companions in Origins were far deeper than those in DA:2. Don't get me wrong, Varric and Anders were great. But then Anders was only so good because I enjoyed watching him struggle towards the finale in act 3, and it was cool to see a character being carried on from DA:O faithfully. So I have 2 companions I really liked in DA:2, compared with Morrigan, Sten, Shale, Zevran and a bit of Alistair from Origins, plus Anders, Nathaniel and Justice from Awakening. 

At the end of the day things like those - soundtrack and companions - our opinions on them are always going to be exactly that, opinions. But there are some things DA:2 did wrong we can all objectively say were poor design decisions/lack of designer time - things like re-used areas (yes its the infinitieth time its been mentioned)and the removal of item descriptions are just plain poor. 

[Eurhetemec]

DuskWarden wrote...

But there are some things DA:2 did wrong we can all objectively say were poor design decisions/lack of designer time - things like re-used areas (yes its the infinitieth time its been mentioned)and the removal of item descriptions are just plain poor. 

What people conveniently forget, though, is that the same is true of DA:O. Terrible tooltips, poor lighting in many scenes (not atmospheric, just bad), many useless or wildly unbalanced abilities, Mages simply outright more powerful than other classes, way way more unresolved bugs than any other BioWare game (some pretty serious), lots of bad/questionable character build options, companion friendship system that punished real roleplaying and rewarded brown-nosing, poor animations for many combat abilities, and so on.

Was it better than DA2? I think it was. But pretending that DA2 didn't have ton of improvements, or that DA:O didn't have ton of "objectively bad" elements, that's just silly. None of them are as visually obvious or, well, as bad, as the over-re-use of environments in DA2, but plenty of them were serious and gameplay-hurting, particularly the huge numbers of bugs - many of which are still un-fixed and still causing problems, and the abilities which still don't work right and still aren't balanced.

* = This is a hard fact - even now, DA:O has tons and tons of unresolved bugs, and there are literally dozens of abilities that don't function correctly - failing to attribute threat correctly is a common failing.

[Eurhetemec]

csfteeeer wrote...

Eurhetemec wrote...

There are a lot of ludicrous claims on these boards, and in this very thread - particularly the unsupportable and silly suggestion that "most" or "virtually all" DA players dislike DA2 - even on this forum, the most poisonous well of DA2-hate on the entire internet, polls make it 50/50 as to which is preferred

No is not.

Dude, you just proved, with your own figures, that the vast majority of people who post here, go on about how much they hate DA2. I've never been to the Gamespot forums, and never will go there, but of all the CRPG or P&P RPG forums that I've been to, I've never come across a place which hates DA2 as much as these forums.

What you showed is that people used to be reasonable and balanced on this, but over time, either more and more DA2 haters have migrated here (unlikely), or more likely, the sheer venom and nastiness of the DA2 haters has driven off most of the people who liked DA2, because why bother to argue with fanatics? It's just tiring and gets you nowwhere. How to you explain your figures? I think that the DA2-likers being driven off is the most logical explanation.

[Davillo]

I'm waiting for a game that incorporates the level of depth and grandness from origins and the new combat and leveling from DA2 but there will have to be more abilities too.

[MonkeyLungs]

The real fans of the Dragon Age series are the only ones left posting here. Gamers who just play a game for a little bit then move on and aren't really invested in the series or the community don't stick around. That gives weight to the opinions of the people still here. We're Bioware fans and Dragon Age fans, whether we like or dislike DA2.

Origins is the better game and every single poll, sales figures, and the fact that DAO UE is still outselling DA2 (CONCURRENTLY IN HEAD TO HEAD RANKINGS AT AMAZON) adds to the mountain of quantifiable data to suggest so.

Bioware decided to trample on the fans of the first game even though it is WILDLY POPULAR and concurrently outsells its sequel.

Modifié par MonkeyLungs, 19 juillet 2011 - 05:26 .

[Eurhetemec]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

The real fans of the Dragon Age series are the only ones left posting here. Gamers who just play a game for a little bit then move on and aren't really invested in the series or the community don't stick around. That gives weight to the opinions of the people still here. We're Bioware fans and Dragon Age fans, whether we like or dislike DA2.

Origins is the better game and every single poll, sales figures, and the fact that DAO UE is still outselling DA2 (CONCURRENTLY IN HEAD TO HEAD RANKINGS AT AMAZON) adds to the mountain of quantifiable data to suggest so.

Bioware decided to trample on the fans of the first game even though it is WILDLY POPULAR and concurrently outsells its sequel.

That's actually UNTRUE, so you might want to keep your all-caps SHOUTING down a bit before some unpleasant facts get stuck in your mouth.

DA2 on Xbox 360 is at 56 in all video games.

DA:O Ultimate on Xbox 360 is at 165 in all video games.

DA:O Ultimate on PS3 is at 320 in all video games.

DA2 on PS3 is at 382 in all video games.

DA:O Ultimate on PC DVD is at 516 in all video games.

DA2 on PC DVD is at 779 in all video games.

So no, DA2 on Xbox 360 is actually much better-selling than any version of DA:O Ultimate.

What we can see is that PC owners prefer to buy DA:O Ultimate, and that PS3 owners are nearly equally likely to buy either (though DA:O Ultimate is more likely).

Figures for Amazon.co.uk, note.

Modifié par Eurhetemec, 19 juillet 2011 - 06:02 .

[MonkeyLungs]

http://www.amazon.co...f_rd_i=14220161

------
Amazon.com Xbox 360 Role playing games:
DA:O UE #4
DA 2 #9
------------
These are dauily sales rankings. I check them almost every day.

I'll put my facts way down your mouth all day long.

Modifié par MonkeyLungs, 19 juillet 2011 - 06:01 .

[happy_daiz]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

http://www.amazon.co...f_rd_i=14220161

------
Amazon.com Xbox 360 Role playing games:
DA:O UE #4
DA 2 #9
------------
These are dauily sales rankings. I check them almost every day.

I'll put my facts way down your mouth all day long.

So those numbers on Amazon are for worldwide sales, or just Amazon?

[Eurhetemec]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

http://www.amazon.co...f_rd_i=14220161

------
Amazon.com Xbox 360 Role playing games:
DA:O UE #4
DA 2 #9
------------
These are dauily sales rankings. I check them almost every day.

I'll put my facts way down your mouth all day long.

My facts > your facts

[MonkeyLungs]

If you don't filter by RPG DA2 isn't even in the top 100 for Xbox 360 games.

Amazon.com updates their sales rankings hourly.

[happy_daiz]

Right, but is Amazon posting just amazon.com sales rankings, or a cumulative total of all sales outlets?

[Eurhetemec]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

If you don't filter by RPG DA2 isn't even in the top 100 for Xbox 360 games.

Amazon.com updates their sales rankings hourly.

Your American sales can get stuffed, mate. In Britain DA2 is at 56 in all video games.

[Eurhetemec]

happy_daiz wrote...

Right, but is Amazon posting just amazon.com sales rankings, or a cumulative total of all sales outlets?

Just Amazon, and just recent sales, not all-time sales.

[MonkeyLungs]

happy_daiz wrote...

MonkeyLungs wrote...

http://www.amazon.co...f_rd_i=14220161

------
Amazon.com Xbox 360 Role playing games:
DA:O UE #4
DA 2 #9
------------
These are dauily sales rankings. I check them almost every day.

I'll put my facts way down your mouth all day long.

So those numbers on Amazon are for worldwide sales, or just Amazon?

i have been listing these numbers here on BSN for months now.

I ONLY check Amazon.com. I basically only check Xbox 360 because its the top selling SKU for both titles. ie Xbox 360 version sold more copies for both DA:O and DA2. This is the American/North American Amazon ... the numbers may differ on European Amazon. EDIT: As Thane pointed out in Britain the sales rankings are different.

Other websites might also have differences in sales rankings based on their customers. I don't know becausde I don't check other sites.

My analysis is just quick and fast for forum purposes.

It may be possible that DA2 has outsold DA:O in overall sales numbers but that claim is not supported by any evidence I have seen.

EDIT: My claim is that in North America (largest video game market), at Amazon.com (primary online retailer) that DA:O UE consistently outsells DA2 head to head. it is a claim substantiated by months of looking at the sales rankings nearly every day.

Modifié par MonkeyLungs, 19 juillet 2011 - 06:13 .

[happy_daiz]

Is there any way to compare DAO 4-month sales with DA2 4-month sales? It seems like some people compare years' worth of DAO sales (cumulative) to months' worth of sales for DA2.

This is not directed @ anyone in particular. Just curious if anyone knows.

[MonkeyLungs]

Eurhetemec wrote...

MonkeyLungs wrote...

http://www.amazon.co...f_rd_i=14220161

------
Amazon.com Xbox 360 Role playing games:
DA:O UE #4
DA 2 #9
------------
These are dauily sales rankings. I check them almost every day.

I'll put my facts way down your mouth all day long.

My facts > your facts

Goes to buy some enzyte.

[MonkeyLungs]

happy_daiz wrote...

Is there any way to compare DAO 4-month sales with DA2 4-month sales? It seems like some people compare years' worth of DAO sales (cumulative) to months' worth of sales for DA2.

This is not directed @ anyone in particular. Just curious if anyone knows.

I have looked at Amazon.com for a few months now on an almost daily basis, specifically to see how DA:O UE is doing against DA2. It has been ahead on Amazon.com every single time I checked, although they have been very close a couple times. Amazon.com lists bestseller data and updates on an hourly basis.

Some one please karate chop me if I'm wrong here but I don't believe these are all time sales numbers, I just think they show how a product is selling currently. So a massive hit title that sold millions in its fisrt year might fall down the list a few years later even though overall it has better sales.

This is actually the point of my research. DA:O UE outranks DA2 every time I check in head to head, hourly updated sales basically everyday.

i wish I had access to EA's books so i could see the full details, such as cost vs. profits and overall sales. These two figures are very important and my research/analysis IS incomplete without them. I totally concede that fact.

However it seems pretty clear to me that at least in NA that DA:O holds its own against its own sequel head to head on a daily, hourly updated basis.

[Eurhetemec]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

I have looked at Amazon.com for a few months now on an almost daily basis, specifically to see how DA:O UE is doing against DA2. It has been ahead on Amazon.com every single time I checked, although they have been very close a couple times. Amazon.com lists bestseller data and updates on an hourly basis.

Some one please karate chop me if I'm wrong here but I don't believe these are all time sales numbers, I just think they show how a product is selling currently. So a massive hit title that sold millions in its fisrt year might fall down the list a few years later even though overall it has better sales.

This is actually the point of my research. DA:O UE outranks DA2 every time I check in head to head, hourly updated sales basically everyday.

i wish I had access to EA's books so i could see the full details, such as cost vs. profits and overall sales. These two figures are very important and my research/analysis IS incomplete without them. I totally concede that fact.

However it seems pretty clear to me that at least in NA that DA:O holds its own against its own sequel head to head on a daily, hourly updated basis.

You're not wrong to think that they aren't "all-time" - they do seem to be "recent" sales only, though how recent is open to question.

There are a couple of complicating factors though - one is the Signature Edition, which is still available, on Amazon, for all platforms. Because we only have a rank, not a "total sales" figure, we can't say how much effect that's having on the shown figures for DA2.

The other factor, is, as I slightly accidentally showed, the figures are VERY different in the UK, and are also, I see, different in various European Amazon shops. So clearly the reception varies worldwide. It might also vary in different shops - maybe people who usually shop on Amazon are unrepresentative in some way? It's quite plausible - and could influence things in either direction.

As for cost vs. profits, well, that's going to be complicated even if you had BioWare's books open in front of you, as DA:O had a five-year development cycle, and DA2 had an 18-month one. Given DA:O's credits are even longer than DA2's, and 3 years 6 months of extra development, it's a sure thing that DA:O cost several times as much to develop.

But DA2 re-used a lot of assets from DA:O, despite the new visual style (animation, code, armour, weapons, objects, particularly), which helped reduce it's development time and development cost - so how does that factor in? You've got a lot of sunk costs and so on there.

I don't think anyone is saying DA2 sold more copies in it's first month than DA:O - certainly BioWare seemed to indicate otherwise - but with an 18-month dev cycle and a smaller team? Maybe it was more profitable. I kind of hope not, personally. I mean I thought DA2 made a lot of improvements, but ugh, it was way rushed.