174 réponses à ce sujet

[FieryDove]

Wusword77 wrote...

Don't misunderstand me I'm not saying that DA:O was bad, just that people gloss over flaws in the game (and similar ones to what they say are in DA2) and the only logical reason I can see is because the game is a throwback to an older style game that we don't see anymore.

I don't think this is true in most cases. One person's flaw is another person's feature. Gaming tastes are very subjective.

I do believe trying to appeal to everyone is futile and ends up with a lot fewer in the happy or even satisfied category in the long run. Pick a vision and stick with it. Don't change the entire vision from game to game trying to catch the elusive golden goose. Most importantly if a game need 2-3 years for full realization don't let yourself be cowed into a short/rushed release.

I played BG2 a little over a year ago, so I remember it well enough. I am still playing DAO. So no rose colored glasses here.

An example:
I very much disliked 2-hander game play in DAO and was not happy with archers. I enjoy them VERY much now in D2. But consider the tradeoff. No DW warriors, no archer warriors, weapon restrictions, companion build restrictions. (Varric not counted of course) Not worth it. I also do not like SnB any longer; it bores me to tears now. So I am 1-up in the like/love department there.

It just seems as the series progresses things are getting pruned and choices are becoming non-existent. Mage/Warrior/Rogue is exactly that now. With the limited specializations there is little flexibility. No more off-tanking with a mage (AW) Yes I know it would have needed balancing but why cut it completely? I only became one so I wouldn't have to wear dresses/robes. I still won’t wear them, you can’t make me!!!

But even if I prefer 2-handers and archers now the combat itself ruins much of that. The infamous multiple waves in all directions takes it toll very early in the game to the point I think a lot of people would rather a toggle :Combat OFF. This is not tactical when you can’t position your weaker party members in what looks to be a safe corner only to have them get dropped upon by not one but three mobs at a time.

So with all that the game play and combat now nets a total minus. With so much of it and no way to pass any of these combats through non-combat skills anything else good that one might notice as one plays the game goes right out the window as one tries to just…get it over with. (The entire game). I don’t think that’s what the developers were shooting for.

The only thing I do know that has been stated is Bioware is moving forward with Cinematic games, VO and Wheel/paraphrasing. If one doesn’t like to play a *movie* (I’ve heard DA2 called this and the ME games) then one might go elsewhere.

Imho where needed.

*Tactical Camera for DA3 Plug*

Modifié par FieryDove, 21 juillet 2011 - 07:44 .

[xSTONEYx187x]

ApostleinTriumph wrote...

I don't need to accept any change I don't like.

Wave system, reused environments, pointless and empty side quests, being stuck to a city and same surroundings for 10 years, story composed of three acts that don't connect to each other in a way, bad itemization, completely unstimulating and consolized UI, inability to change what your party members wear, reduced interaction between you and your party members, and game ending being a joke. I wouldn't rate DA2 anything above 7.5/10, it deserves 7/10 in my book, would probably rate it lower but for the sake of DA:O I keep it there. It is a playable game but definitely not a classic, and definitely not a Bioware game.

Attempting to cater to console kiddies like you is the reason why DA2 failed.

This guy is extremely angry. 

[Haexpane]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

Who's hating? I'm refuting the OP who thinks DA2 is better than Origins.  .

No, according to the Facebooking, internet SoftBodies... you are BULLYING everyone because you have an opinion that differs from "Give Rebecca Black a break, U GO GIRL"

If you don't have a FB softbody opinion like that, you are evil and vile and bullying everyone and need sex rehab.

[Haexpane]

MonkeyLungs wrote...

The real fans of the Dragon Age series are the only ones left posting here.

Gamers who just play a game for a little bit then move on and aren't really invested in the series or the community don't stick around.

That gives weight to the opinions of the people still here. We're Bioware fans and Dragon Age fans, whether we like or dislike DA2.

Origins is the better game and every single poll, sales figures, and the fact that DAO UE is still outselling DA2 (CONCURRENTLY IN HEAD TO HEAD RANKINGS AT AMAZON) adds to the mountain of quantifiable data to suggest so.

Bioware decided to trample on the fans of the first game even though it is WILDLY POPULAR and concurrently outsells its sequel.

I normally don't say this, but TRUUUU DAT HOMESLICE!

We post here because we care about the legacy of Bioware's RTWP WRPGS.

I bought Jade Empire 2x, and KOTOR   2x (OG xbox stolen, had to replace)

Check my registration.. .I'm such a fan I REGISTERED A UPC CODE!  What type of  maniac registers UPC codes with websites?  WE DO!

[Haexpane]

Eurhetemec wrote...
 

Figures for Amazon.co.uk, note.

Noted, apples and oranges.  Ammy.UK is not what matters.

[Haexpane]

Wusword77 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

What is impressive is that despite all the dragon age origins's faults, defects (especially the graphics my god) dao is still seen as an incredible thing.

Ask yourself why, rather than blame the players who didn't like DA2.

It is clear that the " opinions " are not everything. DAO wouldn't have been so successful otherwise.

It is amazing what can happen when you market a game correctly   Calling a game the "spiritual successor" to a beloved genre classic can do wonders for a games reception.  Especially when the rosey tint of nostalgia helps out.

Incorrect, I never played BG2 until ~ 2008/2009 and I even stopped midway to get the user made Widescreen Patch, because I'm a widescreen snob.

That's correct, I was snobby about widescreen support for an old game before widescreen even existed.

And BG2 STILL held up as one of my fav games of all time.  No nostalgia, first run was HD era gaming.  It's just a great game no matter how you slice it.

[Haexpane]

Ringo12 wrote...

Lord Nikon 001 wrote...

Dragon Age: Origins
Dragon Age: Awakenings
Dragon Age II 

Fix'd

I'm so broken that I actually liked Awakenings more than DAO, but I'm a "higher levels, more loot/sub classes" snob.  Awakenings was exactly what I wanted from an expansion, only not long enough

[Haexpane]

FieryDove wrote...
 

An example:
I very much disliked 2-hander game play in DAO and was not happy with archers. I enjoy them VERY much now in D2. But consider the tradeoff. No DW warriors, no archer warriors, weapon restrictions, companion build restrictions. (Varric not counted of course) Not worth it. I also do not like SnB any longer; it bores me to tears now. So I am 1-up in the like/love department there. 

+100

2h, archery is grossly OP'd,  sword and board is the most boring thing in the world, seriously a Power that MAKES YOU GET SLOWER?  Think about that... you get to move real slow like... some sort of 1992 club dance?

[Tommy6860]

FieryDove wrote...

Wusword77 wrote...

Don't misunderstand me I'm not saying that DA:O was bad, just that people gloss over flaws in the game (and similar ones to what they say are in DA2) and the only logical reason I can see is because the game is a throwback to an older style game that we don't see anymore.

I don't think this is true in most cases. One person's flaw is another person's feature. Gaming tastes are very subjective.

I do believe trying to appeal to everyone is futile and ends up with a lot fewer in the happy or even satisfied category in the long run. Pick a vision and stick with it. Don't change the entire vision from game to game trying to catch the elusive golden goose. Most importantly if a game need 2-3 years for full realization don't let yourself be cowed into a short/rushed release.

I played BG2 a little over a year ago, so I remember it well enough. I am still playing DAO. So no rose colored glasses here.

An example:
I very much disliked 2-hander game play in DAO and was not happy with archers. I enjoy them VERY much now in D2. But consider the tradeoff. No DW warriors, no archer warriors, weapon restrictions, companion build restrictions. (Varric not counted of course) Not worth it. I also do not like SnB any longer; it bores me to tears now. So I am 1-up in the like/love department there.

It just seems as the series progresses things are getting pruned and choices are becoming non-existent. Mage/Warrior/Rogue is exactly that now. With the limited specializations there is little flexibility. No more off-tanking with a mage (AW) Yes I know it would have needed balancing but why cut it completely? I only became one so I wouldn't have to wear dresses/robes. I still won’t wear them, you can’t make me!!!

But even if I prefer 2-handers and archers now the combat itself ruins much of that. The infamous multiple waves in all directions takes it toll very early in the game to the point I think a lot of people would rather a toggle :Combat OFF. This is not tactical when you can’t position your weaker party members in what looks to be a safe corner only to have them get dropped upon by not one but three mobs at a time.

So with all that the game play and combat now nets a total minus. With so much of it and no way to pass any of these combats through non-combat skills anything else good that one might notice as one plays the game goes right out the window as one tries to just…get it over with. (The entire game). I don’t think that’s what the developers were shooting for.

The only thing I do know that has been stated is Bioware is moving forward with Cinematic games, VO and Wheel/paraphrasing. If one doesn’t like to play a *movie* (I’ve heard DA2 called this and the ME games) then one might go elsewhere.

Imho where needed.

*Tactical Camera for DA3 Plug*

This^ so much, and very well said, Fiery, I totally agree with the very last comment as well.

[Gotholhorakh]

Haexpane wrote...

MonkeyLungs wrote...

The real fans of the Dragon Age series are the only ones left posting here.

Gamers who just play a game for a little bit then move on and aren't really invested in the series or the community don't stick around.

That gives weight to the opinions of the people still here. We're Bioware fans and Dragon Age fans, whether we like or dislike DA2.

Origins is the better game and every single poll, sales figures, and the fact that DAO UE is still outselling DA2 (CONCURRENTLY IN HEAD TO HEAD RANKINGS AT AMAZON) adds to the mountain of quantifiable data to suggest so.

Bioware decided to trample on the fans of the first game even though it is WILDLY POPULAR and concurrently outsells its sequel.

I normally don't say this, but TRUUUU DAT HOMESLICE!

We post here because we care about the legacy of Bioware's RTWP WRPGS.

I CONCUR WITH THESE TWO POSTS IN THE STRONGEST POSSIBLE TERMS THAT IS ALL.

[Wusword77]

FieryDove wrote...

Wusword77 wrote...

Don't misunderstand me I'm not saying that DA:O was bad, just that people gloss over flaws in the game (and similar ones to what they say are in DA2) and the only logical reason I can see is because the game is a throwback to an older style game that we don't see anymore.

I don't think this is true in most cases. One person's flaw is another person's feature. Gaming tastes are very subjective.

I'm talking about flaws that appear in both games, but people seem to not be as concerned in DA:O.  The best example is the "Hawke's only reactive" argument (when they forget that all of Act 1 is Hawke taking initiative to get on the expedition) when the Warden hardly takes a proactive role in DA:O.

[FieryDove]

Wusword77 wrote...

I'm talking about flaws that appear in both games, but people seem to not be as concerned in DA:O.  The best example is the "Hawke's only reactive" argument (when they forget that all of Act 1 is Hawke taking initiative to get on the expedition) when the Warden hardly takes a proactive role in DA:O.

Ah yes, Hawke vs. Warden. If one were to believe advertising “marketing” one could still be wondering when Hawke would be more *powerful* or *awesome* or more *important* than the Warden. Perhaps the fabled cut Act IV.

I could go on about Hawke/Warden and the DAO/DA2 story flaws and all but this is a no spoiler area.
Let’s just say the level of satisfaction/dissatisfaction is different for each person for each game and leave it at that.

Modifié par FieryDove, 22 juillet 2011 - 12:45 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Tommy6860 wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

The only thing I do know that has been stated is Bioware is moving forward with Cinematic games, VO and Wheel/paraphrasing. If one doesn’t like to play a *movie* (I’ve heard DA2 called this and the ME games) then one  might go elsewhere.
Imho where needed.../../../images/forum/emoticons/wizard.png

*Tactical Camera for DA3 Plug*

This^ so much, and very well said, Fiery, I totally agree with the very last comment as well.

That is what a lot of us are doing. The more Bioware caters to one crowd that wants other things than ourselves or even maybe trying to make a one size fits all model, the more people are put off coming here or buying their games the further they go into that model. Now DA2 had other problems not just catering to those possabilities but in one way or another they all lead to those models by the choices made in development with the only exception being time spent but it's a prime example still if you merely read these forums and see how many people are having great doubts about future DA titles and especially investing in DLC for the current title.

I'm faffing around on these forums till the better RPG'esque titles come out to be completley honest such as Dues Ex (I believe will be), TW2 was and Skyrim without exception will be. All three were, might be and will be better RPGs or Action/FPS games with RPG elements than DA2 was.

I have posted my review of their product and commented in these forums for months on this title (DA2) so it's quite rare that I will post anything that hasn't already been said since I already said it dozens of times. The same applies to the threads themselves they are more often than not just repeated clones of other threads which say the same things in them all the time on here.

I will see what they produce with ME3 however but as it stands right now for me personally that is the only title and series they are currently developing that now interests me in the slightest, even that (ME3) will be probably final title in the series except DLC and expansions.

Imho (and this is completley subjective) Bioware were the best RPG developers out there for a long time but now I rank them 3rd maybe if push comes to shove regarding quality and enjoyment from their games. Thats just how the cookie crumbles sometimes.

Either way other than ME3 they have nothing else that even peaks my interest right now not since the change in direction they have decided to take with the DA franchise with cutting back (simplifying) or the current game development buzzword which is a nancy one size fits all stereotype "accessibility". Making everything hold your hand so grandma or newborn baby could pick up and play in seconds format of titles then claiming it's just as complex or deep as before only hidden so you can't see it in order to make it easy to understand... Claiming it's there but hidden much like the Lochness Monster, Bigfoot or little grey men in spaceships.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 22 juillet 2011 - 03:11 .

[MAIDENHEAD 666]

If I want a high body count of poor AI enemies I'll play COD or GOW single player
If I want a character who defies the laws of physics I'll play Tomb Raider
If I want a button masher I'll play Guitar Hero
If I want an Epic RPG where I save the world I'll play Dragon Age Origins
If I want to show someone how not to make a game I'll show them DA2
Origins is the best game I've got, DA2 is the worst
Yes, all my other games are not as good as Origins but they are better than DA2

[MorrigansLove]

If I wanna play a good game, I'll play Origins.

[Realmzmaster]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You can agree or disagree with the OP. The bottom line is that Bioware will listen to the fans. That means all of them, but will not be govern by them.

Everyone is not going to be pleased. There will be disappointment somewhere and one group or another is not going to get what they want.

Everyone has the power to vote with their money. If you do not like what Bioware puts out, you may have to find another company that fits your wants.

The consumer has the power of choice and the right to exercise it.

[Wozearly]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Imho (and this is completley subjective) Bioware were the best RPG developers out there for a long time but now I rank them 3rd maybe if push comes to shove regarding quality and enjoyment from their games. Thats just how the cookie crumbles sometimes.

Personally, I think that's unfair.

Again, IM(subjective)O, Bioware still are the best RPG developers out there. They just made some notable errors with streamlining in ME2 and made a monumental balls up with DA2.

CDProjekt hit a scorcher with TW2, but remember that the original was so-so. Deus Ex was an amazing original, followed by the distinctly dubious Invisible War. Morrowind was downright brilliant, followed by Oblivion that was...prettier, if not as good.

These things come and go. People do great things, people make mistakes. Its hard to produce a masterpiece on demand every couple of years or so.


PS. Put it this way. I'd gladly suffer a DA2 every so often, if it means more DA:O's in the future.

Modifié par Wozearly, 30 juillet 2011 - 09:37 .

[0x30A88]

I am all for responsive combat, but not at the point that it require the characters to teleport. I want to control humanoid beings. Also, 1 wave of balanced foes >>> 100 waves of drooling fools.

[Eldred]

Dragon Age: Origins was just as great experiance for me as when I played Baldur's Gate. I liked the story, even though one could argue it cliché but I feelt connected to the world. I just loved the art design of Origins. It feelt realistic, I can not really express in english all what made me like it. The combat also feelt more real, which for me is something very important and what made the combat feel really epic was the times you got the kill moves. Finishers, now that is some proper eye candy.

Dragon Age 2 on the other hand, went in a wierd art graphic, I do however dont mind the new Quanari though I feelt it wierd they changed from DA:O to DA2. I cant stand the hacknslash button mash combat of DA2. And this alone brings down my rating of the game -2. Thats how much I dislike that type of combat in an RPG. I mean even Diablo 2 massive waves of mobs hack n slash in its pureform did the combat animations better. The quick jumping around and bodies blowing up in bloody chops of meat. It just feels wrong for a Dragon Age title, Dragon Age 2 is not Dragon Age. It is some bastard IP in my book. 

No bring back the combat and lovely art direction of Dragon Age Origins. With all the nice features like gearing my party. I'd gladly pay more money than standard games for a DA3 thats like Origins.

I have yet to buy Legacy and see if it helps out somewhat, but rest assure I will buy it. Just as I will buy the next Bioware game. But if Dragon Age 3 turns out to walk away again from all what made Origin so good. It will be the last Dragon Age game I buy and it will also make me think long before buying another Bioware title, pre-order CE versions just because it says Bioware ends. I know people say that exercise your consumer rights and don't buy it, but Im hoping that Bioware realise DA2 was not a good product and use the money I keep putting into DA2 and Bioware to make a good sequal.

Modifié par Eldred, 01 août 2011 - 01:30 .

[erynnar]

Wusword77 wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

Wusword77 wrote...

Don't misunderstand me I'm not saying that DA:O was bad, just that people gloss over flaws in the game (and similar ones to what they say are in DA2) and the only logical reason I can see is because the game is a throwback to an older style game that we don't see anymore.

I don't think this is true in most cases. One person's flaw is another person's feature. Gaming tastes are very subjective.

I'm talking about flaws that appear in both games, but people seem to not be as concerned in DA:O.  The best example is the "Hawke's only reactive" argument (when they forget that all of Act 1 is Hawke taking initiative to get on the expedition) when the Warden hardly takes a proactive role in DA:O.

This may be due to the fact that DAO was such a great game, it's flaws were more easily overlooked and ignored because of it (same for many DA2 fans who don't notice the flaws or let them bother them because they had so much fun--and still do just like me playing DAO). It isn't that the flaws aren't there, it's just we can over look them because of the great gameplay we get.

And actually, some of the "flaws" people like to list about DAO and DA2 are really preferences (voiced vs silent--one is not a step down, or an evolutionary step forward).


And DAO is still a better game than DA2.

Modifié par erynnar, 01 août 2011 - 02:03 .

[Range Rover]

xSTONEYx187x wrote...

ApostleinTriumph wrote...

I don't need to accept any change I don't like.

Wave system, reused environments, pointless and empty side quests, being stuck to a city and same surroundings for 10 years, story composed of three acts that don't connect to each other in a way, bad itemization, completely unstimulating and consolized UI, inability to change what your party members wear, reduced interaction between you and your party members, and game ending being a joke. I wouldn't rate DA2 anything above 7.5/10, it deserves 7/10 in my book, would probably rate it lower but for the sake of DA:O I keep it there. It is a playable game but definitely not a classic, and definitely not a Bioware game.

Attempting to cater to console kiddies like you is the reason why DA2 failed.

This guy is extremely angry. 

Prolly wen't through hell for the money to buy his copy of the game.

[JamesMoriarty123]

ApostleinTriumph wrote...

I don't need to accept any change I don't like.

Wave system, reused environments, pointless and empty side quests, being stuck to a city and same surroundings for 10 years, story composed of three acts that don't connect to each other in a way, bad itemization, completely unstimulating and consolized UI, inability to change what your party members wear, reduced interaction between you and your party members, and game ending being a joke. I wouldn't rate DA2 anything above 7.5/10, it deserves 7/10 in my book, would probably rate it lower but for the sake of DA:O I keep it there. It is a playable game but definitely not a classic, and definitely not a Bioware game.

Attempting to cater to console kiddies like you is the reason why DA2 failed.

Spot on. So right it isn't even funny.

Modifié par JamesMoriarty123, 01 août 2011 - 06:31 .

[Malistix]

you say its better and u start with, ye... its not as epic.

LOL?

[Hatchetman77]

Cody211282 wrote...

"But i like 2 a little bit more cuz of isabella :DDD"

So you like it because it has walking T&A?

Well, he seems to be a typical example of the target demographic of the game so I'm sure he liked it.

[Carmen_Willow]

I have to admit that, as much as I love Origins, I recently went back to work on a Dalish
Elf character I wanted to finish, and the combat is simply painful after playing a DW rogue in DAII. I adore Origins. I loved how each beginning was different and how it made you think differently about the world around you. But I like the fighting a lot better in DAII (waves excepted).