86 réponses à ce sujet

[Arius23]

Now I'll be the first to admit, I did not utilize Morrigan's SS skills whatsoever in Origins, but not because they were not cool, but because they felt weak compared to the mage spells.

I think the idea of mages transforming into creatures and ripping apart enemies like rabid wolverines is awesome and should be implemented and improved upon in future DA games.  I do believe, however, the skill should be limited to only apostate mages from the wilds or something similar.

Is anybody else for this?  Any word from Bioware if they have plans to re-implement this skill in future games?

[Sabotin]

To be able to morph into those annoying corrupted spiders? Yes, pelase. I'd hope for a more interesting skill tree though, not just "morph into fighter without skills".

[KilrB]

Doubtful.

That would be like admitting that taking it out was a mistake.

It would also require more work on their part ...

It's much easier, and cost less, to take things out and call it "innovative".

[Salaya]

 I loved that spec  

I know it was a bit weak compared to normal spells, but morphing into some corrupted spider and try to overcome darkspawn was a great exprience; on the other hand, I must admit that I tend to overuse abilities or spells that seem more powerful than the actual outcome xD I was hoping that DA2 perfected what Origins did bad back then... as many other things, it was in dire need of modification, not just "erasing" from the skill tree. 

By the way, the same goes for arcane warriors. Not my favourite spec, but much better than the ones in DA2

[Dragoonlordz]

I hope they bring it back as I did use and enjoy shifting on DAO. In fact it saved my life in the game more than once for example when went into the warehouse in denerim and I got both the bandits hiding out in there spawned and the quest for hiding corpses mobs spawned.

Morrigan shifting between bear to pull mobs away from door then switching back out to heal regen and such before shifting back and times when spider form leaping and knocking down a heavy hitting mob so that would count as damage control also helped.

I wanted my main character to be a shapeshifter and thanks to the mods that became a reality when I change him/her into various mobs with the mobs skills using such mods later such as Pride Demon shapeshift unlike DA2 where was no kit for making mods and people are forced to use a tweaked DAO kit to make limited tiny changes to DA2, unless devs finally bring out kit for DA2 which won't happen because they are meanies.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 17 juillet 2011 - 09:12 .

[vania z]

I'd like to see shapeshifting into other humans and using that to get some useful information of fed lies to someone, but since in da you can't take other human's form, I think SS is useless.

[Blessed Silence]

I'd like to see it definatly.  Was disappointed it was so meh in DAO I never used it.

Rampaging dire wolf sounds fun!

[Morroian]

KilrB wrote...

Doubtful.

That would be like admitting that taking it out was a mistake.

It would also require more work on their part ...

It's much easier, and cost less, to take things out and call it "innovative".

Your post makes no sense, they did take it out hence creating more work for themselves. They undoubtedly took it out because the overwhelming feedback they received was that most hated it. There is plenty of feedback on the DAO forum about it.

I'd rather they brough back the rogue specs bard and ranger.

Modifié par Morroian, 18 juillet 2011 - 07:05 .

[Luke Barrett]

I think with skills like this is becomes a very delicate balancing act between being useless and way too strong. Also, after feedback that suggested 6 was way too many specializations and it would be better if we had less specs with more depth; we therefore pulled the number back to 3 with room to grow a little if the need arose - with that in mind it becomes a case of whether Shapeshifter is warranted over some other essential specs. I think if we said we're adding one more of the old specs to the mage class and made a poll, Shapeshifter would not be on top

...but yes I agree that it would be cool

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 18 juillet 2011 - 06:42 .

[Luke Barrett]

Filament wrote...

I would think that kind of poll would be a bit biased on account of people voting based on what they thought of DAO's shapeshifter (ie it sucked) as opposed to just not liking the concept in general.

Certainly possible... secretly it was just a veiled attempt to say that Arcane Warrior is clearly the superior choice

[Morroian]

Filament wrote...

Personally I'd rather have the 'magic warrior' archetype filled by a warrior spec... with magical abilities lorewise explained to be drawing from the party mage... like Steiner in FFIX. Particularly if mages will continue to be limited to staves. Unless Arcane Warrior can be brought back with more emphasis on being a mage rather than just being an invulnerable talentless warrior.
I guess that's the same bias I was just complaining about, but w/e.

You can already be a 'magic warrior' in DA2, the only thing missing is the ability to use warrior weapons, but when you've got a bladed staff that could be considered a minor point.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Arius23 wrote...

Is anybody else for this?  Any word from Bioware if they have plans to re-implement this skill in future games?

Skill mechanics aside, I don't think any spec should be in the game unless there's a logical reason for the PC to learn it or stumble across it herself.

That said, if there is a shapeshifter in the game who can teach the PC mage how to change forms, or some quest allows the requisite learning, I'm all for it.

Conversely, if there is a skill like that requires the ritualistic drinking of dragon blood to unlock, Reaver shouldn't be an option until you get hold of some dragon blood.

Next think you know 'Grey Warden' will be a spec, and you won't need a Joining ritual to access skills like 'Detect Darkspawn'.

[Arius23]

Luke Barrett wrote...

I think with skills like this is becomes a very delicate balancing act between being useless and way too strong. Also, after feedback that suggested 6 was way too many specializations and it would be better if we had less specs with more depth; we therefore pulled the number back to 3 with room to grow a little if the need arose - with that in mind it becomes a case of whether Shapeshifter is warranted over some other essential specs. I think if we said we're adding one more of the old specs to the mage class and made a poll, Shapeshifter would not be on top

...but yes I agree that it would be cool

Well, what if some enemies at least had the skill?  It would certainly make battles against certain types of mages interesting and varied.

[Ulicus]

Filament wrote...

Personally I'd rather have the 'magic warrior' archetype filled by a warrior spec... with magical abilities lorewise explained to be drawing from the party mage... like Steiner in FFIX. Particularly if mages will continue to be limited to staves. Unless Arcane Warrior can be brought back with more emphasis on being a mage rather than just being an invulnerable talentless warrior.

Given the strength of magic running through the Hawke and Amell lines, I was surprised that Spirit Warrior didn't make an appearance in DA2.

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

Skill mechanics aside, I don't think any spec should be in the game unless there's a logical reason for the PC to learn it or stumble across it herself.

Agreed. Though we can handwave it at present with "they learnt between timeskips", I'd much rather have to go through a questline (or at least buy a book!) to unlock a specialisation.

Modifié par Ulicus, 18 juillet 2011 - 12:41 .

[Iosev]

I think one difficulty in adding a Shapeshifter specialization is that it seems like it would have very little synergy with most of the current casting-oriented abilities of the mage class. With the exception of Arcane Shield, Rock Armor, Heroic Aura, Vitality (a Spirit Healer ability), and maybe a few others, I can't think of many, current spells that would be useful for a mage specializing as a melee-oriented Shapeshifter. I think a pure aura or passive-enhancing school of magic would have to be implemented in order to compliment the Shapeshifter.

With that said, I think that there is a lot of potential for the Shapeshifter to be a unique and viable specialization, and I would prefer its return over the Arcane Warrior (largely because there is a lot of overlap between the AW and the warrior class).

[Hel]

Luke Barrett wrote...
Arcane Warrior is clearly the superior choice

Lore-wise it's one of the most boring choices, in my opinion. I'd rather have the classes stay true to their different playstyles, without having to become blends of the other classes to appease the masses.

If no more specializations appear within DAII's development cycle I'm all for fleshing out the cross-class combo's further and maybe see the return of individual combo's as well. It certainly adds more dynamic to the game than being able to swing a sword while farting a fireball at your foes.

[Eurhetemec]

Presumably Arcane Warrior was dumped because it didn't really add anything to the game. I mean, if you wanted to be a Warrior, you surely picked Warrior? All Arcane Warrior did was make front-line Mages extremely hard to kill in a rather un-Mage-y way.

I certainly hope they take a very long, hard look at this in DA3. It'd be nice if we could avoid there being specializations which were objectively significantly superior to the other choices, and that pretty much means BW need to avoid having specializations that effectively give access to "extra" resources, or making the alternatives more effective. Right now, with DA2, not picking Blood Mage as one of your specializations is pretty much gimping yourself significantly, I would suggest.

[Dariuszp]

Well as I did like shapeshifting (it was useless but fun - i prefered some crowd control spells than a spider or something), I didn't like Arcane Warrior at all.

Why ? Because mage was powerful like hell. It was most unbalanced class in the game. 3 mages in team and you could kill everything on your way.

But greatest weakness of the mages was low stamina and crappy armor. Problem is that as Arcane Warrior you could use best armors in the game so your mage team was like Terminator, Rambo and Predator with assist of some mele fighter.

[Haexpane]

Luke Barrett wrote...

I think with skills like this is becomes a very delicate balancing act between being useless and way too strong. Also, after feedback that suggested 6 was way too many specializations and it would be better if we had less specs with more depth; we therefore pulled the number back to 3 with room to grow a little if the need arose - with that in mind it becomes a case of whether Shapeshifter is warranted over some other essential specs. I think if we said we're adding one more of the old specs to the mage class and made a poll, Shapeshifter would not be on top

...but yes I agree that it would be cool

This.  Shapeshifting in Everquest PC for example was extremely over powered.  In DCUO Shapeshifting is constantly tweaked.  Wolf Form was completely useless for 6 months and now extremely over powered in PVP thanks to a small tweak.

Gorilla Form in DCUO was godly for 3 months, and is now just kinda "meh", not great for healing or DPS role.

ShapeShifting is indeed very tough to balance, just like PETs

In DAO it was way under powered and pointless without mods?

[TheJediSaint]

Personally I don't think a shape shifting specialization would work with they way DA2 mages are built. Heck, it didn't really work in the first Dragon Age either.
I think shapeshifter should probably be it's own separate class rather than a specialization of mage. The most workable solution I think, would be with a companion who's unique talent revolved around shapshifting. Perhaps in future Dragon Age titles, a specific shapeshifter class could be introduced. I could see such a class being something of a magical equivalent to a warrior or rogue. So while the tradtional mage filled the nuker/buffer roles, the shapshifter would use magic to change into different forms suited to particular combat roles.

Modifié par TheJediSaint, 18 juillet 2011 - 08:10 .