86 réponses à ce sujet

[FieryDove]

Morroian wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

I see nothing remotely spellwise close to BM that we have now, 

I'm talking conceptually. Besides of those spells hand of winters was the only good one, maybe elemental chaos but by that point I had so many sustainables that I was barely able to use it nor really had a need for it.

We didn't need anything more in awakening. The spawn lvl was broken. You could fight bare-handed and win. Lvl 30 warden vs lvl 11-22 mobs. Lvl 35 warden lvl 22-25 mobs.

[TEWR]

What's awesome is that some of the mage armor looks perfect for battlemages and Arcane Warriors.

Like the Champion set and the first Mage armor from the Mage pack.

We need more of those

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 20 juillet 2011 - 06:41 .

[naledgeborn]

Shape Shifter lore >>>> Blood Magic. Yep, I said it.

[Haexpane]

Lame shapeshifting





vs Awesome Shapeshifting


 

Modifié par Haexpane, 21 juillet 2011 - 10:31 .

[Elessara]

Coming late to this thread but back to what Mr. Barrett said ... people thought 6 was too many specialisations? Really? Because I'm of the opinion that 3 is just too few especially when you can choose 2. It offers so little variety in builds and less replay value.

[Blessed Silence]

Luke Barrett wrote...

I think with skills like this is becomes a very delicate balancing act between being useless and way too strong. Also, after feedback that suggested 6 was way too many specializations and it would be better if we had less specs with more depth; we therefore pulled the number back to 3 with room to grow a little if the need arose - with that in mind it becomes a case of whether Shapeshifter is warranted over some other essential specs. I think if we said we're adding one more of the old specs to the mage class and made a poll, Shapeshifter would not be on top

...but yes I agree that it would be cool

Hm.  I didn't think 6 was too many Specs.  Though I do say having 3 for each class is nice and a bit easier to pick from.  But more gives players more choice ... and some are worthless .. Duelist in DAO I'm looking at you.

[TEWR]

Elessara wrote...

Coming late to this thread but back to what Mr. Barrett said ... people thought 6 was too many specialisations? Really? Because I'm of the opinion that 3 is just too few especially when you can choose 2. It offers so little variety in builds and less replay value.

think about it. Using the new skill trees, that's like 18-26 abilities if they put in 6 specs, not counting the other trees like Creation, Elemental, Entropy, Vanguard, etc.. Then you have to take into account upgrades. That's a lot to choose from, and Awakening only allowed you to have 3 specializations. There was a way to get a 4th in Witch Hunt, but I forget how.


During Origins and the DLC it had it wasn't too much, because there were only 4 things to pick in each tree (and some were useless). Here, you have a lot to choose from, and they're much more useful.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 22 juillet 2011 - 09:29 .

[iNZoW]

I loved the idea of shape shifting and i wanted to use it but its broken in DAO

[Haexpane]

szekeres2010 wrote...
 . I can't imagine how it could work in a game like Dragon Age 2, combat is just too fast compared to origins and it is harder to control the flow of battle.

A possible solution for fast combat, make Shapeshifting a "PROC" as in it has a % chance to activate off of a normal attack.  You proc, SS into say a Big bear and gain STA/STR for 10 seconds, then you get forced to shift back.

Upgrades would allow you to stack procs.  i.e. you proc once to Black Bear, then if you get another Proc, BBear becomes Grizzly Bear, which gives added Bleed dmg, another proc? Polar Bear which adds ice dmg.  Each proc stack lasts an additional 10 seconds.

I am now accepting offers for Production Asst/Design/ Database Analyst etc...

[Torax]

The catch with a random proc of that sort is then it wouldn't belong to a mage. A mage shouldn't be in melee if they can help in DA2. They basically backed away from the overpowered Arcane Warriors and as was pointed out by a blue already in this thread. A bear form is basically what a Arcane Warrior would be. Now a proc to have to a melee type shift into creatures would be interesting. You'd have to be some hybrid type so only for a companion maybe? But what type would that be? A special dalish druid? Maybe one of the Chasind Shaman?

Shapeshifting was interesting but it was also not practical and since they were basically all melee and close range attacks it wasn't all that efficient. Now that they have auto attacking as dynamic with the staves, I doubt they will get rid of mages using their staves as it is. This may not help the cause of shape shifting returning for mages at least. Arcane Warriors were a little too OP in Origins already. Since mages are kind of the kings of AOE casts and things of that nature? It's probably best to focus on those and not a shape shifter sadly.

[Haexpane]

Torax wrote...

The catch with a random proc of that sort is then it wouldn't belong to a mage. A mage shouldn't be in melee if they can help in DA2. They basically backed away from the overpowered Arcane Warriors and as was pointed out by a blue already in this thread. A bear form is basically what a Arcane Warrior would be. Now a proc to have to a melee type shift into creatures would be interesting. You'd have to be some hybrid type so only for a companion maybe? But what type would that be? A special dalish druid? Maybe one of the Chasind Shaman? .

You can proc on any type of attack, Ranged, Melee or Finger Waving magic.  

Bear was an example, and yeah, that's very Shaman-esque.

Mages  would Proc into Drakes, then young dragons, then big dragons etc..

Rangers would Proc into wolves.

The list goes on and on of what could be examined, then chopped up and refined.  RPGs with fast combat, MUST HAVE PROCS.  It's like a FPS game needs "gun sights" and a game without them feels 10 years old.

[Torax]

My point is if they did have mages become shapeshifters again, then they would only be able to shift into ranged attackers which doesn't really fit well into the animal kingdom. Why I'm not sure they'd ever go that route again. Why it almost makes the most sense for a variation of a rogue or warrior. With Warrior making the most sense if it did contain a bear form.

[Torax]

I just kind of saw them trying to take mage as a ranged only arch-type since they were trying to make the Rogue and Warriors more melee interesting and intuitive. Long story short. If someone likes melee in DA2 they have 2 classes that already do it with their own flavors. No reason to make every class in the game a melee character. Then you might as well just get rid of ranged all together from a development stand point.

Modifié par Torax, 22 juillet 2011 - 07:47 .

[Torax]

ends up evening out the arch types

2 ranged class options. 2 melee. Think like a developer.

[Torax]

I figure development just went to a more simple focus design.

Warrior = Damage or Tank (Melee Exclusive)
Rogue = Damage (Melee & Ranged)
Mage = Damage or Healer (Ranged Exclusive)

Even though they did some cool melee animations here and there. I like how the ranger pulls out a dagger for his free hand if someone gets in close.

[Dragoonlordz]

Torax wrote...

I figure development just went to a more simple focus design.

Warrior = Damage or Tank (Melee Exclusive)
Rogue = Damage (Melee & Ranged)
Mage = Damage or Healer (Ranged Exclusive)

Even though they did some cool melee animations here and there. I like how the ranger pulls out a dagger for his free hand if someone gets in close.

Your forgetting CC which can be neither damage or healing and can be either ranged or melee.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 22 juillet 2011 - 11:09 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Not all classes should be equiped with both melee and ranged combat skils/spells and super jutsu moves and this annoys me about DA2 slightly one of the many things that does in the game. It's a party based game companions should have specific styles of fighting, some up close some distance.

Warriors are close range same can be applied for shapeshifters in animal form however due to knowing magic in first pace it is possible they can stay in mage form to cast distance spells. However The same cannot or imho should not be applied for warriors, they should have no ranged skills but they can equip a ranged weapon whether a bow a gun or crossbow etc but due to not being part ofthe clas skillset they should not get skills for using those weapons and instead only due white damage with them.

The same applies for mages who equip bows etc they can only due white damage unless maybe have spells that can enchant the arrows themselves. Rogues would have skills for long range but they should be more limited than say a hunter or ranger style class and ofcourse mages and casters should have ranged based spells aswell as close combat spells but not any major skills with the actual weapons in close combat so they woulddo only white damage with staves or staffs etc. Nothing stops them using knives or axes or swords but no skills should be given to the class for that type of weapon as that is not the class role.

Most importantly due to being party based the group should be made up of all toons that have various roles o play whether melee or ranged or casters and not everyone can do everything, that way it becomes more tactical ranged classes mage/hunter/rangers even to small degree maybe rogues etc dealing with archers or other mages but shapeshifters and rogues and especially warriors should be more melee and for warrios they should have no close in skills or spells or ranged skillsets with their primary goal to keep mobs off the ranged companions alone.

Tactics like running around a corner where ranged mobs cant hit you would cause them to close in allowing you to close gap that way or using mages or rangers to take down the ranged mobs while warriors and melee handle close combat mobs.

If people only want warriors and melee only style companions in their group then thats their fualt if he or she is alone and warrior class then use tactics like positioning to advantage such as if archer trying to shoot you then stand behind enemy mob where arrow would hit the mob in middle or use corner trick. If your in an open area and a fight kicks off against large amount of different roled enemies then its your own stupid fualt for rushing in or poor battle design by the developer. This is where out of combat skills and tactics come in aswell as alternative variations on how combat should be used or concluded.

If outnumbered and alone with a non ranged class the battle could end with a surrender not charging in like a lemming, upon surrendering a escape quest could take place from somewhere etc, other than that the developer shouldnt put a lone warrior in such a battle to begin with without the added ability to not get killed using method as just mentioned or someone coming to rescue or any battle where warrior is alone should be done in way that it forces close combat so if happened would stand a chance. Otherwise all big outnumbered battles for melee only class should be done in way either ends or is designed way just sugested or where actually have a companion to assist at that time when fight starts.

I just find warriors teleporting around screen with jutsu both irritating and depressing from a strategy or tactical point of view and imho lazy plus tacky.

Mage = Ranged and close combat or even AoE or healing but spells or shiftshifting as methods -never equipement aka weapon based.
Rogue = Melee or some ranged but primarily melee or out of combat traping assassination or stealth based combat with weapons or equipment -never spells for damage dealing.
Warrior = Melee only skill wise maybe some form of skills for protection mostly equipment based but no jutsu or ranged or spells for damage dealing and certainly no healing.
Hunter/Archer/Ranger = Ranged skillsets but no spells, maybe some trapping skills and animal mastery of some sort such as was done with DAO and AW.

Any class can use any weapon but weapons not trained for in general with that class such as rogues using wands and warriors using bows or even mages using axes should only do very limited dmagae or white damage. Use the class composition to make up for the shortfalls in the group not one size fits all every clas can do as well as each other in all styles both ranged and close combat by using jutsu and magic which is what has happened imho with DA2.

/endrant ~ Sorry had a blurt moment where just kept typing so have no idea if makes sense just went from random brain thoughts to keyboard (I type as fast as i think which is very fast, too fast for my own good so everything I tend to ay comes out long winded and sometimes gibberish). Anyways hope makes some sense cba to read through it all to make sure.

[FieryDove]

Filament wrote...

Maybe they could make it a sustainable that opens up a radial menu like Fade shapeshifting radial menu. And have changing between forms instantaneous. They'd have to fix the bug that allows you to regenerate all your health in combat using that system though.

Another cool thing about that, since it would be a sustainable, outside of combat and during cutscenes it would be supressed like Rock Armor, so you'd look like a normal person. But then when combat starts you'd go right back to whichever Shape is currently selected.

.

Oooo I like this idea.

[FieryDove]

Summoning...change that slightly add a summon gorilla.

Shapeshifting...no more spiders pls! ack...lol Eh if people like it then so be it...just so many...and so BIG in the game they drop on my head...ewww