177 réponses à ce sujet

[Quole]

Clonedzero wrote...

i dont see what makes aliens so interesting. the mere fact they're aliens? meh.

a shadow organization like cerberus is actually really interesting with all their wacked out experiments and questionable ethics.

like the quarians for example, i find them UTTERLY boring. if you focus on aliens then rather than having interesting developments you spend have the time simply explaining the culture, the biology ect. rather than core character, and plot development.

Thats no excuse for them to be so central to the plot. 3/4 novels, all the comics, ME2, ME3.  They all either revolve around cerberus or hvae cerberus play a key role. Why? Theres so much potential for better characters and plots in yet we keep going back to cerberus for everything. Its ridiculous.

[DonDaMon]

Cerberus Effect 3

[ThePwener]

sighineedname wrote...

What's the point of ****ing about the story before you even know anything substantial?

We don't need to know the plot to know who's involved in it.

[Quole]

alperez wrote...

Quole wrote...

I agree. Ascension, Retribution, Deception, a lot of ME2, and the comics. Dont know why Bioware is so obsessed with Cerberus. its incredibly annoying that I read more about cerberus than I do the reapers/collectors/geth (the REAL antagonists) combined.

Maybe its because cerberus are also antagonists and its through them we'll get to understand the reapers which is why cerberus were written into the storyline in the first place.

Think of it something like an Emperor/vader scenario, its through Vader we learn about the emperor and whle the emperor is really the main threat its vader who is the main antogonist.

Do you remeber ME1? They were nothing in that game. Just a backround threat. Now suddenly, the entire universe revolves around them. Also, you say through them we will learn more about the repeapers, in yet the only time we do is in retribution, and thats because they screwed up and Grayson escaped. Again, theres so much potential in yet we keep going back to cerberus.

[ThePwener]

DonDaMon wrote...

Cerberus Effect 3

Might as well.

[alperez]

Quole wrote...

Thats no excuse for them to be so central to the plot. 3/4 novels, all the comics, ME2, ME3.  They all either revolve around cerberus or hvae cerberus play a key role. Why? Theres so much potential for better characters and plots in yet we keep going back to cerberus for everything. Its ridiculous.

Because they are supposed to play a key role. You answer your own question, if they are in as much of the story as they are then there is obviously a really big reason for it, what exactly that reason is you'll see in me3.

[Quole]

alperez wrote...

Quole wrote...

Thats no excuse for them to be so central to the plot. 3/4 novels, all the comics, ME2, ME3.  They all either revolve around cerberus or hvae cerberus play a key role. Why? Theres so much potential for better characters and plots in yet we keep going back to cerberus for everything. Its ridiculous.

Because they are supposed to play a key role. You answer your own question, if they are in as much of the story as they are then there is obviously a really big reason for it, what exactly that reason is you'll see in me3.

No no, I said the entire universe revolves around them for no reason. It SHOULDNT revolve around them because theres no reason to.

Modifié par Quole, 17 juillet 2011 - 11:52 .

[ThePwener]

Quole wrote...

No no, I said the entire universe revolves around them for no reason. It SHOULDNT revolve around them because theres no reason to.

I agree. There are many other gorups that can be used. Using Cerberus as the go to evul guys is plain lazy at this point.

[KateKane]

Quole wrote...

Thats no excuse for them to be so central to the plot. 3/4 novels, all the comics, ME2, ME3.  They all either revolve around cerberus or hvae cerberus play a key role. Why? Theres so much potential for better characters and plots in yet we keep going back to cerberus for everything. Its ridiculous.

I imagine a lot of it has to do with dubious secret organizations being pretty easy to write.

[Quole]

KateKane wrote...

Quole wrote...

Thats no excuse for them to be so central to the plot. 3/4 novels, all the comics, ME2, ME3.  They all either revolve around cerberus or hvae cerberus play a key role. Why? Theres so much potential for better characters and plots in yet we keep going back to cerberus for everything. Its ridiculous.

I imagine a lot of it has to do with dubious secret organizations being pretty easy to write.

Its a shame. So much potential thats going to waste.

[Tommy6860]

KateKane wrote...

pablodurando wrote...

DonDaMon wrote...

theres a difference in adding back story to a certain sub plot, but cerberus shouldnt be that important in a universe with trillions of civilians. come on dawg making cerberus too important is laughable ..
think hard

The reason that they're important is because they have known the Reaper threat for some time now and are the only organization taking action.  Trillions of people just happen to think Reapers are urban legends and aren't preparing for the worst.

Are you suggesting that Cerberus is the only group doing anything about the Reapers?
We've seen that the Alliance considers the threat real enough to warrent investigation, and if there aren't other groups doingthe same well then that's just bad writing.

This^ and I agree. Just that kind of thinking alone, in a deep storyline, would make it an oversimplification of what's going on within the ME universe.

[King Gigglez]

I personally don't like Cerberus and don't like how they became somewhat of a vocal point of the series, but that is how it is written. I would have loved to have seen them focus on more characterized plot of the Council, but instead they went with Cerberus. In ME1 it was more on the council point of view, then in ME2 it was Cerberus, I personally thing and hope that in ME3 (depending on the choices you made) can either focus on the Council or more human view points. I really hope that they do develop a lot more character for the Aliens, that is what I thought maade the first game unique is because of the Aliens and Humans working together and it was more of a galactic view point, instead of mostly human like ME2 was.

[Savber100]

So I guess the fact that we're exploring the homeworlds of the Turians, Salarians, and Quarians while forging alliance with the Geth, Krogan, and Rachni means that the game will NOT be focusing on alien culture and having plotlines where other aliens are integral to the plot?

Yeah.. guess the OP forgot about that because he thinks that Shepard can win this war just by defeating Cerberus.

Ahh... the smell of a wounded fanboy.

Modifié par Savber100, 18 juillet 2011 - 12:03 .

[ThePwener]

Tommy6860 wrote...

This^ and I agree. Just that kind of thinking alone, in a deep storyline, would make it an oversimplification of what's going on within the ME universe.

Everyone is lazy?

[alperez]

[quote]Quole wrote...


[/quote]
Do you remeber ME1? They were nothing in that game. Just a backround threat. Now suddenly, the entire universe revolves around them. Also, you say through them we will learn more about the repeapers, in yet the only time we do is in retribution, and thats because they screwed up and Grayson escaped. Again, theres so much potential in yet we keep going back to cerberus.

[/quote]

Introduce a plot point in a game, expand on that plot point in your next game, flesh out that plot point in your comics/books and then in your final game show that the plot point you introduced very early on actually had a greater meaning than people assumed at the time.

Its easier to learn about the reapers through cerberus for 2 reasons.

1. they know more about the reapers than even we do.

2. it makes very little sense that we fight the reapers and thats how we learn to beat the reapers.

3. once we beat the reapers thats it game over.

So by making cerberus an enemy, by making us fight them we get to learn those things, we get to delay beating the reapers until we're ready and we also get to show the few times we come up against reapers before then that we're overmatched (but that if we learn more we can win).

Its a simple plot device, the only difference is that its been building up since game 1.

[MrFob]

Terror_K wrote...

KateKane wrote...

My big gripe is that they somehow have the numbers to be this much of a problem.

In a galactic civilization with trillions of citizens at war with Lovecraftian robot monsters from space, how are a few hundred members of the worst secret organization ever supposed to be a major threat?

Indeed. Especially when apparently the new Normandy and rebuilding Shepard were supposed to have used a good majority of their resources, and then they lost a bunch of cells and got their asses handed to them by a group of turian strike forces in Retribution. Somehow it seems Cerberus has more men and resources than the Alliance and all the other Council species combined.

That is my big problem as well. Look at terrorist organisations today. They may be a threat but they could never mount an allout offensive (indoctrinated or not) because they just don't have the numbers.
Cerberus in ME1 and Ascension was really cool, Cerberus in ME2 and Retribution was stretching it to a limit. if They have the kind oif manpower, that is hinted at in ME3, it's beyond belief.
But: We don't know the story yet. It might be the TIM found out sectrets of indoctrination and used them on a colony to bolster it's ranks. It could be that Cerberus itself is indoctrinated and just supplies the reapers troops, gathered from the worlds they have conquered.
In both these scenarios however, any paragon Shepard should feel really bad about shooting innocents who have no choice (but neither has he, I suppose).
In any event, I'll wait and see before complaining. As always, it depends how they pull it of.


BTW: The paragon Sheps feeling about killing indoctrinated soldiers could very well explain the cheesy Shep quote from the trailer:
Shep and team land on a colony and are engaged by the people they wanted to save:
Squad mate: Oh my god, these are human colonists, attacking us. Shepard, what do we do? What' the plan?
Shepard (realising there is on choice): We fight or we die, that's the plan!

[alperez]

ThePwener wrote...



I agree. There are many other gorups that can be used. Using Cerberus as the go to evul guys is plain lazy at this point.

Which other groups?

Cerberus are the only group they spent time and effort developing.

[essarr71]

DonDaMon wrote...

i'v been a fan since day 1 & iv dedicated hundreds of hours in mass effect 1 alone..
i know what i'm saying & i'm saying we see too much of cerberus imo , every thing now leads a trail back to cerberus ..
thats not odd to you ?

It seems odd that if youre such a fan, and realize just how involved cerberus has been in both shepards story and the reaper invasion, you'd realize that their fate/involvement in 3 - regardless of their motivations or your shepards opinion of them - is tied to the conclusion of the series.

TIM has been fighting this war for longer than shepard, remember.  Sorry it feels old to you, but frankly, the truth is, its easy to fight against the reapers,cerberus makes the entire war interesting, and it wouldnt be a stretch to think the big twist or reveal in 3 will involve them and not the reapers.

Modifié par essarr71, 18 juillet 2011 - 12:07 .

[ThePwener]

MrFob wrote...

Look at terrorist organisations today.

People need to get it right. Cerberus is labeled as such, but isn't. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a movie/game where terrorists save humanity?

Modifié par ThePwener, 18 juillet 2011 - 12:07 .

[essarr71]

ThePwener wrote...

People need to get it right. Cerberus is labeled as such, but isn't. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a movie/game where terrorists save humanity?

Ok, get it right: where has cerberus saved humanity?

Im not a cerb-hater, but at least stick to facts.

Also, secondary to that: Terrorist organizations have a goal/agenda.  Cerberus is more complex, but they could easily be seen as a terrorist group - even if their goals are "good" for humanity.

Modifié par essarr71, 18 juillet 2011 - 12:11 .

[KateKane]

ThePwener wrote...

MrFob wrote...

Look at terrorist organisations today.

People need to get it right. Cerberus is labeled as such, but isn't. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a movie/game where terrorists save humanity?

They aren't really about humanity, though.
They're goal is human domination of the galaxy, with Cerberus on top. An ethno-centric, dangerous, pseudo-military organization with lofty goals of domination says "terrorists" to me.

[DPSSOC]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
How many Reaper plans have the other races foiled?

Two, last time I counted.

Which two?  Is this something from the books or comics cause I've missed those thus far (really should read the books at least).  We had Saren and the Geth which was a human spectre on a human vessel with a predominantly human crew.  The alien governments assisted at best twice and only once actively, they hindered progress otherwise.

Then we have the Collectors; again human spectre, human vessel, mostly human crew with the alien and human governments going out of their way not to get involved.

Again if it's something from the books I'll take your word for now but at best that puts 3, millenia old civilizations on par with the new guy.

[alperez]

ThePwener wrote...

People need to get it right. Cerberus is labeled as such, but isn't. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a movie/game where terrorists save humanity?

How? how have they saved humanity?

[ThePwener]

Only Shepard (humanity extended by Cerberus) has foiled any Reaper plans.

ME1) ME1's coming apocalypse

ME2) Collectors foiled/Dr. Amanda Kenson's Reaper "Arrival"

[alperez]

ThePwener wrote...

Only Shepard (humanity extended by Cerberus) has foiled any Reaper plans.

ME1) ME1's coming apocalypse

ME2) Collectors foiled/Dr. Amanda Kenson's Reaper "Arrival"

So because they brought back shepard, they saved humanity, thats it that's your whole argument.