77 réponses à ce sujet

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^I took the OP to mean "which class is the hardest to learn", which boils down to either the Adept of Engineer for me.

[CajNatalie]

termokanden wrote...

I didn't say they are particularly hard to play. I didn't say you need the Mattock or GPS.

You can construct similar arguments for why every class is pretty easy to play. That just doesn't really answer the question in this thread: which class is hardest to play? But then again, I don't think we're going to find an answer any time soon anyway

I wasn't addressing you specifically... there's a general issue with people feeling Adepts are "the worst" on HC/IY modes, and the idea that you need Stasis as a crutch to enjoy the class, and/or the Firepower weapons to quick-strip protections.

The Spamming Troll in particular calls out Boz's videos on how much Stasis, the Firepower DLC, and modding, is used, which I can't deny detracts from Boz's purpose in uploading those videos to make the Adept look 'awesome' (it kind'a makes the DLCs look awesome instead, overshadowing the Adept).

I'm hoping that my Vindicator/Warp Ammo Adept can continue to put on, at the very least, a fairly good show throughout this NG+ Insanity run I'm doing, so I can point people to those if they ever feel the Adept is awful.
I'm no master, yet, but I'm trying. o.O

Modifié par CajNatalie, 18 août 2011 - 07:06 .

[ryoldschool]

AverageGatsby posted lots of video of Adept without the Firepower weapons or Stasis over a year ago. Its the first class I beat insanity with, but I think its the hardest because you have to coordinate more with your squad ( hard to do on console because of the limited squad commands without the power-wheel ).

[liquid sleep]

CajNatalie wrote...

I'm hoping that my Vindicator/Warp Ammo Adept can continue to put on, at the very least, a fairly good show throughout this NG+ Insanity run I'm doing, so I can point people to those if they ever feel the Adept is awful.
I'm no master, yet, but I'm trying. o.O

I have a question (slightly OT) regarding Warp ammo.

Enemies affected by biotics take double damage. The wiki states that Warp ammo's damage bonus is doubled vs. enemies in said condition. So let's say you have an armored enemy held by a Singularity. Your weapon does a hypothetical base damage of 100 points and your Warp ammo (level 1) adds an extra 15% to that number. Just how much extra damage would the enemy take when fired upon?  Is it your base weapon damage + 30% for Warp ammo, times 2?

[keboo]

I can just say that soldier and engineer are definitely not the hardest class, because, well soldier is soldier and engineer's drone is sooo good you basicly can't die.

[Weiser_Cain]

Play like I do, an Adept too cheap to use life potions.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

ryoldschool wrote...

AverageGatsby posted lots of video of Adept without the Firepower weapons or Stasis over a year ago. Its the first class I beat insanity with, but I think its the hardest because you have to coordinate more with your squad ( hard to do on console because of the limited squad commands without the power-wheel ).

+1. The DLCs give Adepts a lot of fancy toys, but that goes for all the other classes more or less equally. However, neither the DLC weapons and even Stasis actually change the basics of how the Adept plays. For example, Stasis is a convenient shortcut for killing big enemies, but it's not always the fastest way to kill regular enemies, nor is it the best way to deal with groups.

Even with Stasis, an Adept's staple powers are still Pull, Throw and Singularity. Regardless of weapons, the way to play Adepts is to break enemy defenses quickly, and then cc / instakill them with power combos, which overall allows Adepts to kill as just efficiently, if not more than so than other classes. The thing about the class is that it demands just a tiny bit more creativity than the others, but only because it often kills in a less conventional manner than the others (instakills / physics damage vs. direct damage powers / weapons). IMHO, I think the problem ppl like Troll have with the Adept isn't so much the classes' actual ability, but rather that they just don't like to switch gears from the way they play the other classes.

[CajNatalie]

liquid sleep wrote...

CajNatalie wrote...

I'm hoping that my Vindicator/Warp Ammo Adept can continue to put on, at the very least, a fairly good show throughout this NG+ Insanity run I'm doing, so I can point people to those if they ever feel the Adept is awful.
I'm no master, yet, but I'm trying. o.O

I have a question (slightly OT) regarding Warp ammo.

Enemies affected by biotics take double damage. The wiki states that Warp ammo's damage bonus is doubled vs. enemies in said condition. So let's say you have an armored enemy held by a Singularity. Your weapon does a hypothetical base damage of 100 points and your Warp ammo (level 1) adds an extra 15% to that number. Just how much extra damage would the enemy take when fired upon?  Is it your base weapon damage + 30% for Warp ammo, times 2?

Warp Ammo only doubles its bonus once an enemy is suspended and ragdolled by Pull/Singularity/Slam's Lift.
The enemy has to be warp-bombable.

So an armored enemy stumbling around in a Singularity unable to move his heavily armored ass outta there will only take the +15% bonus against their armor (115 per shot).
Once their armor shatters, and they lift off screaming and flailing, they take +30% (in addition to the +100% from being ragdolled; so 230 per shot).

Generally, Warp Ammo's bonus against biotic-ragdolls only shines on Insanity mode, because in any lower difficulties, the +100% from ragdoll by itself ensures an instant (or near enough) death.
Heavy Warp Ammo (+50%) versus a biotic-ragdolled enemy does a delicious +100%. Add on the standard ragdoll bonus and you have a total of +200% (triple damage! 300 per shot with your hypothetical weapon); one of the Warp Ammo Adept's best friends on Insanity mode.

Damage increases further from being a Nemesis, and wearing either the +5% Power shoulder pads or the Blood Dragon Armor.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 19 août 2011 - 05:03 .

[thisisme8]

Honestly, the most difficult class, while at the same time being extrememly funny and rewarding, is the No-Scope Sniper.

[CoffeeHolic93]

thisisme8 wrote...

Honestly, the most difficult class, while at the same time being extrememly funny and rewarding, is the No-Scope Sniper.

That video is pure gold no matter how often I watch it.  

Modifié par Mi-Chan, 20 août 2011 - 08:20 .

[Destroydacre]

I actually found adepts to be very powerful and a lot of fun once you figured out how to use them. Once you max out your upgrades you can wreak havoc, doesn't matter what kind of defenses the enemy has. Hardest class for sure is the engineer. The engineer doesn't really do anything that it's supposed to (all 5 of the other classes "control the battlefield" much better) and good luck if you come across a biotic. The engineer really does not have an answer for that enemy, so hopefully you brought Samara or Miranda with. And in comparison to the other class specific talents, the combat drone is really weak and in many cases not helpful at all when it's really needed (i.e. against a strong enemy like a praetorian or when you've lost your squad and are fighting a large group of enemies).

[SpockLives]

Destroydacre wrote...

I actually found adepts to be very powerful and a lot of fun once you figured out how to use them. Once you max out your upgrades you can wreak havoc, doesn't matter what kind of defenses the enemy has. Hardest class for sure is the engineer. The engineer doesn't really do anything that it's supposed to (all 5 of the other classes "control the battlefield" much better) and good luck if you come across a biotic. The engineer really does not have an answer for that enemy, so hopefully you brought Samara or Miranda with. And in comparison to the other class specific talents, the combat drone is really weak and in many cases not helpful at all when it's really needed (i.e. against a strong enemy like a praetorian or when you've lost your squad and are fighting a large group of enemies).

Sorry to tell you this, but you're playing the Engineer wrong.  Engineer's Combat Drone provides unparalleled crowd control.  Engineer also has unmatched defense stripping abilities.  There are so many enemies that can ignore an Adept's Singularity it isn't funny.  Nobody except Praetorians can ignore the Combat Drone.  Tell me how an Adept can crowd control a Praetorian.  Squishy Adepts also can't handle Ymirs very well.  Engineer can spam Combat Drone on them and trivialize the fight.  Don't forget that Incinerate does full damage against barriers and 2.4x against armor.

(Edit: removed a mistake.)

Modifié par SpockLives, 21 août 2011 - 12:08 .

[Xariann]

I guess this is a lil old now.  I played on Insanity with all classes and I agree with what some other players stated especially the "You need to get the class." 

You'll find that Vanguard at first is the most frustrating. You'll try to charge, die a lot, and wonder how other people can just chain charge all the time and get away with it. Once again you need to "get" the class and then it becomes really easy.

Vanguard is the one I played the most myself, it's the most "action packed" class in my opinion and it's my favourite. If you don't have access to any of the DLC weapons, you will be way more cautious at the beginning with your Vanguard and just shoot from behind cover. You'll use charge only when you are totally sure that you won't die and often just as a finisher. You will then get upgrades as the game progresses and start chain charging and you will realise that your charge isn't only a good offensive skill, it's also a good defensive skill to get away from dangerous enemies, or you'll use it to get your shields back up.

If you get the DLCs with weapons and armour and so on, all I can say is that I tried to do another (my third) Insanity run on my Vanguard with them, and I just facerolled the game. I could chain charge very early in the game with few deaths. So if someone is telling you "I just rip through things with Vanguard using the Geth Shotgun" just so you know they are playing with an OP weapon and if you didn't buy it, alas that won't help you gauge the class.

That said, Vanguard still rips through the game once you get the synergy with the companion skills, once you understand when to charge, and have enough upgrades.

The part about the skill synergy however applies to all classes.

Adept is also one of the hardest. It doesn't have an ammo power of its own, so you want to spec your companions with squad ammo, unless you are using warp ammo yourself. Again, however, this falls into the "companion skills synergy", once you get that, Adept becomes easier and a lot of fun.

Infiltrator and Soldier I find the easiest, I'd argue Engineer is easier than Infiltrator though (so many people underestimate how much CC the drone is.)

Sentinel "has a skill to counter everything" but I think people sometimes miss how when you use one skill, everything else goes on cooldown, so you still need to rely on your companions like you do with all classes if you want to go through things fast. You could solo with a Sentinel, it would just take longer than using your companion's skills as well as yours.

My 2 cents.

Modifié par Xariann, 21 août 2011 - 12:21 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

thisisme8 wrote...

Honestly, the most difficult class, while at the same time being extrememly funny and rewarding, is the No-Scope Sniper.

OMG ROFL

This playstyle is the ultimate "Turn Intentional Fail Into Gold".

[termokanden]

I tried the no-scope sniper before... in CoD. Occasionally got a hilarious kill, but basically I just got destroyed by players ten times worse than me

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^CoD doesn't give you the all-important escape mechanism that certain ME2 classes do.

[Aumata]

Infiltrator for me. **** bioware for the aggro, cause I try to use camo for tactical situations or flank them and the moment I it goes off I, my planning is shot to hell. My most hated class in Mass Effect 2.

[ryoldschool]

Aumata wrote...

Infiltrator for me. **** bioware for the aggro, cause I try to use camo for tactical situations or flank them and the moment I it goes off I, my planning is shot to hell. My most hated class in Mass Effect 2.

  I have seen this objection posted many times - as soon as your cloak wears off the ememy knows exactly where you are and starts shooting, even if you moved a long way from where you were when you cloaked.  Still, judging by the number of guides for infiltrators, its a popular class.

[Destroydacre]

SpockLives wrote...

Destroydacre wrote...

I actually found adepts to be very powerful and a lot of fun once you figured out how to use them. Once you max out your upgrades you can wreak havoc, doesn't matter what kind of defenses the enemy has. Hardest class for sure is the engineer. The engineer doesn't really do anything that it's supposed to (all 5 of the other classes "control the battlefield" much better) and good luck if you come across a biotic. The engineer really does not have an answer for that enemy, so hopefully you brought Samara or Miranda with. And in comparison to the other class specific talents, the combat drone is really weak and in many cases not helpful at all when it's really needed (i.e. against a strong enemy like a praetorian or when you've lost your squad and are fighting a large group of enemies).

Sorry to tell you this, but you're playing the Engineer wrong.  Engineer's Combat Drone provides unparalleled crowd control.  Engineer also has unmatched defense stripping abilities.  There are so many enemies that can ignore an Adept's Singularity it isn't funny.  Nobody except Praetorians can ignore the Combat Drone.  Tell me how an Adept can crowd control a Praetorian.  Squishy Adepts also can't handle Ymirs very well.  Engineer can spam Combat Drone on them and trivialize the fight.  Don't forget that Incinerate does full damage against barriers and 2.4x against armor.

(Edit: removed a mistake.)

Thanks, but I know full well how to play as an engineer. I've beaten ME2 on insanity on all 6 classes so I know from experience that the engineer is easily the worst. The combat drone does NOT provide unparalleled crowd control. It can occupy one enemy for several seconds. The sentinel (warp and overload), soldier (AR+ammo powers) and infiltrator (Cloak+widow) all strip defenses better than the engineer, and the Adept has many more CC powers than the engineer.

If you rank any classes below the engineer then you're playing those classes wrong (see I can do that too).

[ryoldschool]

Destroydacre wrote...

SpockLives wrote...

Destroydacre wrote...

I actually found adepts to be very powerful and a lot of fun once you figured out how to use them. Once you max out your upgrades you can wreak havoc, doesn't matter what kind of defenses the enemy has. Hardest class for sure is the engineer. The engineer doesn't really do anything that it's supposed to (all 5 of the other classes "control the battlefield" much better) and good luck if you come across a biotic. The engineer really does not have an answer for that enemy, so hopefully you brought Samara or Miranda with. And in comparison to the other class specific talents, the combat drone is really weak and in many cases not helpful at all when it's really needed (i.e. against a strong enemy like a praetorian or when you've lost your squad and are fighting a large group of enemies).

Sorry to tell you this, but you're playing the Engineer wrong.  Engineer's Combat Drone provides unparalleled crowd control.  Engineer also has unmatched defense stripping abilities.  There are so many enemies that can ignore an Adept's Singularity it isn't funny.  Nobody except Praetorians can ignore the Combat Drone.  Tell me how an Adept can crowd control a Praetorian.  Squishy Adepts also can't handle Ymirs very well.  Engineer can spam Combat Drone on them and trivialize the fight.  Don't forget that Incinerate does full damage against barriers and 2.4x against armor.

(Edit: removed a mistake.)

Thanks, but I know full well how to play as an engineer. I've beaten ME2 on insanity on all 6 classes so I know from experience that the engineer is easily the worst. The combat drone does NOT provide unparalleled crowd control. It can occupy one enemy for several seconds. The sentinel (warp and overload), soldier (AR+ammo powers) and infiltrator (Cloak+widow) all strip defenses better than the engineer, and the Adept has many more CC powers than the engineer.

If you rank any classes below the engineer then you're playing those classes wrong (see I can do that too).

As a neutral bystander, I have to admit that this last line is pretty funny.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^I can feel the heat from here too - better grab a beer to put out the flames.

[Doriath]

For me the hardest to play effectively was the vanguard. I can agree with the points made about the adept, but knowing when and when not to charge was something entirely different from playing any other class, and really makes the game difficult if you're not picking your spots right.

[Mand0l1n]

Going back to the engineer I just don't see how you can rank it as one of the harder classes. I've played all classes numerous times and the engineer runthroughs are always quick. No other class power has the cooldown of the drone coupled with the ability to lock down dangerous targets. You can completely negate harbinger. Also slap one on a heavy and watch them blow themselves up (quite amusing actually). If anyone gets too close the drone is better than cloak for getting you out of trouble. You can literally stand next to them and shoot at point blank range while they target your drone. If the class has a weakness it's the ability to quickly finish off targets once down to health. Cryo helps lock them down but you've still got to shoot them or use incinerate and this can sometimes feel less efficient than other classes. I completely understand whiy people take shotgun training on their engineers as it gives them that knockout punch the class inherently lacks.

[CajNatalie]

Mand0l1n wrote...

Going back to the engineer I just don't see how you can rank it as one of the harder classes. I've played all classes numerous times and the engineer runthroughs are always quick. No other class power has the cooldown of the drone coupled with the ability to lock down dangerous targets. You can completely negate harbinger. Also slap one on a heavy and watch them blow themselves up (quite amusing actually). If anyone gets too close the drone is better than cloak for getting you out of trouble. You can literally stand next to them and shoot at point blank range while they target your drone. If the class has a weakness it's the ability to quickly finish off targets once down to health. Cryo helps lock them down but you've still got to shoot them or use incinerate and this can sometimes feel less efficient than other classes. I completely understand whiy people take shotgun training on their engineers as it gives them that knockout punch the class inherently lacks.

I think people often just don't want to give the Engineer a chance.
It's a very fun class, but playing it requires a bit more thought is all.
The drone is by no means 'unparallelled' on Insanity, but combined with its miniscule cooldown it still remains great for controlling aggro.
The Engineer is pretty much the master of aggro control and softening up enemies. They control the battlefield setting up kills and harrassing everyone... they just lack the lethality of other classes when it comes to finishing enemies off.

Modifié par CajNatalie, 23 août 2011 - 04:55 .

[gavgav77]

CajNatalie wrote...
I think people often just don't want to give the Engineer a chance.
It's a very fun class, but playing it requires a bit more thought is all.
The drone is by no means 'unparallelled' on Insanity, but combined with its miniscule cooldown it still remains great for controlling aggro.
The Engineer is pretty much the master of aggro control and softening up enemies. They control the battlefield setting up kills and harrassing everyone... they just lack the lethality of other classes when it comes to finishing enemies off.

I think you're probably right. For all the games I've started, I've not considered the Engineer once. Possibly its the name that puts people off. 'Engineer' does not sound like someone who can handle themselves in a fight. When I think of engineers in ME2, I instinctively think of Donnelly and Daniels toiling away on the lower deck in a purely support role, while every one else has all the fun.

If it were renamed something like 'Specialist', or 'Tech-something' then maybe it would have more appeal.

Modifié par winawer, 23 août 2011 - 05:36 .