433 réponses à ce sujet

[PurpleChair]

But presentation, gameplay and story are hugely subjective! What is a "good" story? What kind of graphics are "best"? Is micro-management dull and frustrating, or intellectually stimulating?

You can maybe make some objective technical assessments of the quality of sound and graphics (although even this breaks down when you consider games with really distinct art styles - look at the way people reacted to Wind Waker! Absolutely gorgeous, but dismissed by a lot of people as 'childish') but I'd say personal experience is a MUCH more important.

I guess we can agree to disagree (etc etc)

Modifié par PurpleChair, 21 novembre 2009 - 05:29 .

[daem3an]

I can't argue that ultimately all reviews are just an opinion and should be taken as such, but I still disagree that reviewers can't try to be objective, or personal taste should overwhelm or determine the score. Some of the cons listed above are actually pros in my book, I guess it all comes down to how those points are weighted. This review would have still helped persuade me to buy the game, on PC.

I guess we can agree to disagree (etc etc)

Absolutely.

Modifié par daem3an, 21 novembre 2009 - 05:30 .

[Blank Syndrome]

daem3an wrote...

I can't argue that ultimately all reviews are just an opinion and should be taken as such, but I still disagree that reviewers can't try to be objective, or personal taste should overwhelm or determine the score. Some of the cons listed above are actually pros in my book, I guess it all comes down to how those points are weighted. This review would have still helped persuade me to buy the game, on PC.

Exactly. Regardless of the overall score, reviews should be informative - they're meant to help you come to a personal decision, not to make one for you.

[spernus]

PurpleChair wrote...

But presentation, gameplay and story are hugely subjective! What is a "good" story? What kind of graphics are "best"? Is micro-management dull and frustrating, or intellectually stimulating?

You can maybe make some objective technical assessments of the quality of sound and graphics (although even this breaks down when you consider games with really distinct art styles - look at the way people reacted to Wind Waker! Absolutely gorgeous, but dismissed by a lot of people as 'childish') but I'd say personal experience is a MUCH more important.

I guess we can agree to disagree (etc etc)

That's why Edge seems like a useless mag. Certainly isn't the kind of mag I would use to purchase a game or not.

If you aren't able to have some consistency or have a strict line of what to look out for to rate a game,it's subjective to a point where you lose credibillity.

It's definitively reflected in their score of rpg in general which is all over the place and doesn't properly establish what are considered the best in that given genre.

I won't buy that:

Final fantasy XII
NWN
Fable 2
KOTOR
Persona 4

represent the best that the genre has to offer(I can agree with something like Demon's soul however).I doubt Edge would convince most serious wrpg fan that Fable 2 is above Baldur's gate 2,Fallout or Planescape:torment as well.As someone who actually does play and like jrpg,I can't agree with FF XII which is one of the least inspired in the serie either(the story isn't fully fleshed out and the lead designer left in the middle of production).

Just another blow to gaming journalist which is already viewed as bottom of the barrel compared to music and movie critics.

Modifié par spernus, 21 novembre 2009 - 06:57 .

[Chromie]

Falklol wrote...

They also gave Modern Warfare 2 a 9/10, so I wont believe anything they say.

Well so did every other magazine/website

[Raxtoren]

Wait, "Edge" claimed that DA takes 30-hours to complete?

I finished it in 38, and I skipped tons of dialoges and side-quest.

How the F, did they finish it in 30 hours?

They must have done the main story on casual and skipped tons of stuff.

[JaegerBane]

Raxtoren wrote...
Its ridiculous, and childish to give DAO a 5, I dont care about "personal opinions" if you give DAO a 5 you let the wrong person review it. End of story.

I think that's a fair point. It's all very well harping on about opinions but by definition, giving a 5/10 to an RPG like DA:O is essentially saying it's thoroughly mediocre in the RPG genre.

If DA:O is honestly considered mediocre, then I'm wondering what they consider to be good. Sounds like the kind of claptrap you hear on RPGCodex.

[Raxxman]

JaegerBane wrote...

Raxtoren wrote...
Its ridiculous, and childish to give DAO a 5, I dont care about "personal opinions" if you give DAO a 5 you let the wrong person review it. End of story.

I think that's a fair point. It's all very well harping on about opinions but by definition, giving a 5/10 to an RPG like DA:O is essentially saying it's thoroughly mediocre in the RPG genre.

If DA:O is honestly considered mediocre, then I'm wondering what they consider to be good. Sounds like the kind of claptrap you hear on RPGCodex.

Well in a wry kind of way, you could argue that because Dragon Age is about the only wRPG to be released in forever, that it has be average, as it's both the worst and best wRPG released this year.

[Falklol]

Raxtoren wrote...

Wait, "Edge" claimed that DA takes 30-hours to complete?
I finished it in 38, and I skipped tons of dialoges and side-quest.
How the F, did they finish it in 30 hours?
They must have done the main story on casual and skipped tons of stuff.

Wow, the guy who played must've skipped through every single dialogue. I skipped lots of side-quests, and I completed the game after 80 hours.

[JaegerBane]

Raxxman wrote...
Well in a wry kind of way, you could argue that because Dragon Age is about the only wRPG to be released in forever, that it has be average, as it's both the worst and best wRPG released this year.

Such an argument would be a cop-out, as if such thinking were truly behind it then what is the point in scoring it at all? The point behind scores is to show how it compares to others.

[Osprey39]

Raxtoren wrote...

Thats right, but when the biggest magazine in the industry givs it 5/10 ... shocking... jeez.
Im the bioware/dao basher here, and I would even give DAO a 9/10.
Not saying everyone has to agree, but anything below an 8 is just a joke.

I've never even heard of that magazine so I don't know how they could be the biggest magazine in the industry.  I can name several other gaming magazines so it's not just ignorance on my part.  Furthermore, who the hell buys gaming magazines anyway?  You can get all the info you need to know on the net.

[mufuti7]

Game magazine? Respect?

Bwahahahahahahahahaha.



Never heard of them before btw. But console magazine editors and staff are probably even more incompetent than PC game magazines. You probably also have to pay them more $$$ for the rating you want.

[Raxxman]

Falklol wrote...

Raxtoren wrote...

Wait, "Edge" claimed that DA takes 30-hours to complete?
I finished it in 38, and I skipped tons of dialoges and side-quest.
How the F, did they finish it in 30 hours?
They must have done the main story on casual and skipped tons of stuff.

Wow, the guy who played must've skipped through every single dialogue. I skipped lots of side-quests, and I completed the game after 80 hours.

Question, does someone has to play every character in every possible combination before they're qualified to review this game? How many hours does a reviewer have to play the game before he can get a feel of it?

I'm just wondering because 30 hours of game play has surely shown more than enough to formulate an opinion on the game right?

[mufuti7]

I just found out what this Edge magazine rated some older Rpgs, still laughing:

Mass Effect - 7/10
Jade Empire - 7/10
KotOR - 9/10
Baldur's Gate 2 - 8/10
The Witcher - 5/10
Morrowind - 6/10
Oblivion - 8/10
Fallout 3 - 7/10
Diablo - 7/10
Diablo II - 6/10


Someone in the topic I found these ratings summarized it properly, I guess

Edge relevance = dog poo

Modifié par mufuti7, 21 novembre 2009 - 07:37 .

[Guiomar]

Raxtoren wrote...

Wait, "Edge" claimed that DA takes 30-hours to complete?
I finished it in 38, and I skipped tons of dialoges and side-quest.
How the F, did they finish it in 30 hours?
They must have done the main story on casual and skipped tons of stuff.

Even if they did complete it in 30 hours its no reason to give DA a 5/10 as you can complete MW2 in like 3-6 hours probably

[Lacan2]

Aerundel wrote...

Pasted from another board:

"Past Edge WRPG scores for reference:

Mass Effect - 7/10
Jade Empire - 7/10
KotOR - 9/10
Baldur's Gate 2 - 8/10
The Witcher - 5/10
Morrowind - 6/10
Oblivion - 8/10
Fallout 3 - 7/10
Diablo - 7/10
Diablo II - 6/10 "

Witcher, 5/10? Also, I'm not a Blizzard or Bethesda fanboy, but those are pretty low scores for Diablo 2 and Morrowind.

This mag is a joke.

[spernus]

It's definitively not the best mag to read if you enjoy wrpg,especially when they are telling you that Fable 2 is nearly a masterpiece of the genre...

[Seifz]

So, does anyone have a link to the review yet or do we have to keep talking about nothing but a number? I'm really interested to read it, but I'm not paying the ridiculously high import cost for the magazine.

[Niten Ryu]

It's old saying that Edge is good game magazine, IF you rip out of reviews. Probably true in this case too. But then again, reviews don't have to justify why developer chose some feature, like going with generic fantasy element in order to get better sales. They can add that to the negatives list, even when all the studies say that's it's positive for the sales.



Dragon Age is generic in everything. It's very calculated and outside 2007 graphics and too long main campaign, it's very successful product for the masses. But I can't blame reviewer if they want to include those features as nagatives.



It's been rather dry streak for us who like traditional wCRPs. From our point of view it's hardly fair to review Dragon Age and only give it 5/10. It creates illusion that Torments, Baldur's Gates and Ultimas would be released as often as WW2 shooters and there would be huge advances in story, game mechanics and NPC interaction. Beggars can't be choosers. Dragon Age deserves solid 7/10.

[daem3an]

My review: Dragon Age appears generic only on the surface. It's a superb execution of a familiar genre. That's why I think the number of hours played is also relevant. I've put in much more than 30 hours, I think I'm at about 16% complete, and I'm only just beginning to realize the scope and brilliance of the game. Actually listening to the dialogue fleshes out an entirely separate and ultimately rewarding facet you might miss otherwise.

[Naminator236]

Raxxman wrote...

Falklol wrote...

Raxtoren wrote...

Wait, "Edge" claimed that DA takes 30-hours to complete?
I finished it in 38, and I skipped tons of dialoges and side-quest.
How the F, did they finish it in 30 hours?
They must have done the main story on casual and skipped tons of stuff.

Wow, the guy who played must've skipped through every single dialogue. I skipped lots of side-quests, and I completed the game after 80 hours.

Question, does someone has to play every character in every possible combination before they're qualified to review this game? How many hours does a reviewer have to play the game before he can get a feel of it?

I'm just wondering because 30 hours of game play has surely shown more than enough to formulate an opinion on the game right?

NO you HAVE to play with EVERY class and go through EVERY origin and make sure that you go through 150 hours of gameplay for EACH character!

ONLY THEN you can formulate an unbias opinion on the game.

Ohhhh and it cant be a negative opinion! Nope we cant have that. If your opinion is negative then its just invalid, and you have credibility, sorry.


P.S. Can people please stop ****ing comparing MW2 single player to this game! It's not even a freaking RPG, it's not supposed to be long. On top of that MW2 is known for its Multiplayer, and it if fantastic, the BEST multiplayer FPS out there right now. Plus we can always reverse the argument. So hows the multiplayer in Dragon Age? Ohhh wait, it does NOT have any.

Modifié par Naminator236, 21 novembre 2009 - 08:13 .

[spernus]

Niten Ryu wrote...

It's old saying that Edge is good game magazine, IF you rip out of reviews. Probably true in this case too. But then again, reviews don't have to justify why developer chose some feature, like going with generic fantasy element in order to get better sales. They can add that to the negatives list, even when all the studies say that's it's positive for the sales.

Dragon Age is generic in everything. It's very calculated and outside 2007 graphics and too long main campaign, it's very successful product for the masses. But I can't blame reviewer if they want to include those features as nagatives.

It's been rather dry streak for us who like traditional wCRPs. From our point of view it's hardly fair to review Dragon Age and only give it 5/10. It creates illusion that Torments, Baldur's Gates and Ultimas would be released as often as WW2 shooters and there would be huge advances in story, game mechanics and NPC interaction. Beggars can't be choosers. Dragon Age deserves solid 7/10.

That's more or less the thing with Edge. They never considered the Torments,Baldur's gates or Ultimas to be all that great to begin with.Let's just say that Edge doesn't see eye to eye with hardcore wrpg fans.The codex must hate them like no others gaming mag.

[Zenthar Aseth]

Naminator236 wrote...
. On top of that MW2 is known for its Multiplayer, and it if fantastic, the BEST multiplayer FPS out there right now. 

No it's not. Or well, maybe on the consoles it is. But if you want a real FPS that requires skill.. you'll have to go elsewhere. CoD1 was the last CoD on the right track.. from that on they kept becoming easier and easier until MW which required no aiming skills whatsoever anymore.. and it's even worse in MW2.

CS:S is 10 times better modern FPS that is skill based... and then there's Quake, UT2003-4, CoD1 etc

[Chamucks Deluxe]

With the Advancements of blogs and online gaming sites, you'd be an idiot to buy a magazine.. Harsh I know, but the paper writing industry is on it's death bed. Somewhere out there you can get a really good in depth non-CTRL-C'd review and it won't cost you anything. Don't waist your time.

[DrakhanValane]

Well, to be fair, Morrowind really was an atrocious piece of garbage. The only reason I played it was due to it being included with some hardware I bought at the time. I went out of my way to avoid Oblivion when I heard that was coming. DA however was pretty much bug-free my entire play through with my sword and board warrior. Much fun.