17 réponses à ce sujet

[AnonymousHero]

Hi all,

I'm contemplating going from SCS II "light" to a SCS II install with smarter mages/priests, but I have a question which hopefully some of you who've played SCS II can answer.

The documentation for SCS II's "Antimagic attacks penetrate improved invisibility" component states that:

The antimagic attacks of enemy mages will bypass Improved Invisibility even if you don't install this component.

(I'm assuming that it only applies if you install "smarter mages".)

Does anyone here know if this is actually still true? (The targeting method was changed from small-area-of-effect to something else at one point, I think v16.)

I kind of like the Imp. Invis. mechanic as it is, but if avoiding this component is only going to cripple PC, then I might as well install it.

[Alesia_BH]

In my version, there was a separate component that governed Anti-Magic attack targeting through Improved Invisibility. Installing Smarter Mages enabled enemy mages to make use of that dynamic. My understanding is that enemy mages can not make use of the tweak without Smarter Mages installed.

I honestly don't think you have anything to fear from the Smarter Mages Anonymous Hero- even with full tweaks and pre buffs installed. They do behave more intelligently, but they aren't necessarily more difficult. So long as you understand the spell mechanics (especially the SCS Tweaks) you can keep yourself safe. I'v dealt with them as a solo Sorceress, Thief, and Fighter and they weren't problematic.

Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 18 juillet 2011 - 01:31 .

[Alesia_BH]

There was an accidental double post here. I mine as well make use of it...

The important things to remember are that Breach will still not target through Improved Invisibility. And while Spell Shield no longer stops Breach, Spell Protections will. So, If you use a Spell Shield to intercept Anti-Magic attacks that target through II and also have Spell Protections in between subsequent incoming attacks and your Spell Immunities, you can keep yourself safe in the same way that SI:D, SI:A, II did in vanilla.

You may have to refresh your Spell Shield/Spell Protections from time to time. You also have to watch out for MMM eating through your Spell Protections. It's not terribly complicated.


Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 18 juillet 2011 - 01:29 .

[AnonymousHero]

Yeah, it's a separate component ("Antimagic attacks penetrate improved invisibility"), but the description (which I quoted part of) seems to imply that it only applies to PCs.

That's what I'm curious about. I guess I can just try myself after installing, but if someone knows it'd be helpful on getting a "final" install set cooked up faster .

EDIT: Thanks for that edit to your double post . I appreciate the hints. I suppose I should just try it -- maybe a plain mage (or perhaps conjurer) would be better for experimentation than a Sorcerer (which I'm thinking of attempting NR).

Modifié par AnonymousHero, 18 juillet 2011 - 01:34 .

[Alesia_BH]

AnonymousHero wrote...

Yeah, it's a separate component ("Antimagic attacks penetrate improved invisibility"), but the description (which I quoted part of) seems to imply that it only applies to PCs.

Right. You can choose to make Antimagic targetting through II available to the PC with that component. Without Smarter Mages installed, enemy scripts do not seem capable of doing so.

If you wanted to preserve the original dynamic, you could go no on Anti-Magic Targetting, and no on Smarter Mages. If you wanted to stack the deck in your favor, you could go yes on Anti-Magic Targetting and no on Smarter Mages- that's my understanding at least.

But again, there isn't much to fear from the Smarter Mages/Priests. I'd recommend installing the tweaks and Smarter Mages/Priests with full prebuffs.


Best,

A.

[AnonymousHero]

What I (think) I want is that neither the PC nor smarter enemy mages can target through II. That's what the little snippet from the description seems to preclude.

But I guess, I'll just have to try.

[Alesia_BH]

AnonymousHero wrote...

What I (think) I want is that neither the PC nor smarter enemy mages can target through II. That's what the little snippet from the description seems to preclude.

Understood. I don't think that's possible. I think you can go everybody with Smarter Mages, nobody with Vanilla mages, PC only with Vanilla mages, or enemies only with Smarter Mages. Nobody with Smarter Mages isn't available. I could be mistaken though.


Best,

A.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 18 juillet 2011 - 02:20 .

[Incantatar]

Unlike Alesia_BH i wouldn't advise to go full prebuff.
-It more often than not makes no (rp) sense
-It's sort of cheating AI, because several round/level buffs go off instantly. The player can't do that.
-You need to metagame a lot!
-I know you play noreload, which will be lot tougher. I'd start without short-term prebuffing.
-Mages will be generally of higher level than vanilla. Not a reason just something to keep in mind. (Dispel Magic will strip you naked without SI:A. )
-You will laugh at all non-casting enemies.

-My recommendation for added difficulty would be xp, spell and item balancing.

[AnonymousHero]

Yeah, I'm leaning towards only permitting the mages to have long-lasting buffs... at least for a few runs.

Modifié par AnonymousHero, 20 juillet 2011 - 05:07 .

[Grond0]

There is also the SCS option to only allow short duration buffs when the mage / cleric teleports in. This simulates the ability to buff-up when they have surprise on you, but apart from the RP issue it might be one way to see how much of a difference it makes to you when you face a fully-buffed opponent.

[AnonymousHero]

Grond0 wrote...
There is also the SCS option to only allow short duration buffs when the mage / cleric teleports in. This simulates the ability to buff-up when they have surprise on you, but apart from the RP issue it might be one way to see how much of a difference it makes to you when you face a fully-buffed opponent.

I seem to recall that this option was supposed to be a little buggy. For example that mages would regain their insta-buffs if you simply moved out of sight of them.

Or am I misremembering?

[Grond0]

I'm not sure - I've got that option on my installation and haven't noticed any problems with mages, but I've played very little in BG2 where I suspect the pre-buffing would be more noticeable. I have noticed on several occasions clerics sometimes recover their spells (not buffs) when out of sight, but that's a different issue that others have also reported (such as Alesia).

[mad cat from hell]

The "never allow enemy casters to prebuff short lasting spells" means they only cast long lasting stuff automatically at start of combat: stoneskin, prot form fire, prot from magkic energy etc. Its the mildest precasting option in scsII. Should be fair by itself because spells turn/lvl or 8-24 hours are ofc cast normally by player too. Still, every bg 2 mage worth mentioning has contingencies and triggers in scsII which means that if you dont use it yourself you ll be handicapped. And even if you do you will be too since enemies use contingencies exacly when they need while you can use it only when enemy sighted or 50% hp etc. Thats what i rly dislike about contingencies: enemies cheat with them.

In versions 18 and 19 antimagic spells are single target but can target transparent improved invisible enemies(there is an install option for it). version 18 is latest, 19 is 18 + a couple of languages.

Modifié par mad cat from hell, 21 juillet 2011 - 07:03 .

[mad cat from hell]

double

Modifié par mad cat from hell, 21 juillet 2011 - 07:01 .

[ussnorway]

I found pre-buffs to be very buggy against my thief and have removed it but the smarter mage/ priest is well scripted and should give you no major problems... understand that it is just the basic mages because adding the extra challenges will automatically pile on the cheats.

Modifié par ussnorway, 21 juillet 2011 - 07:15 .

[Alesia_BH]

Incantatar wrote...

Unlike Alesia_BH i wouldn't advise to go full prebuff.

I can understand that viewpoint. And I think each of Incantatar's points make sense. Nonetheless, I personally found that the full pre-buffs component enhanced the game.

The full pre-buffs component does stack the deck in the AI's favor. I don't have a problem with that personally: AI opponents often need a little help to compete with live players. In addition, even with the component, enemy mages are still highly vulnerable to conventional mage killing tactics. With full pre-buffs installed, they at least get a chance to show you some of their spellbook. That's a good thing to my mind.

As for bugs, I've only noticed two and both of them are avoidable: 1) if you Stun a mage or cleric before his pref-buffs fire, they may go off repeatedly; 2) if you engange a mage or cleric, retreat, rest, and then return,  pre-buffs may go off again each time you get out of sight range. (The problem in the latter case isn't strictly pre-buff related however- it has to do with the reset on rest mechanism. Even without pre-buffs installed, mages can end up repeatedly getting fresh spellbooks in these circumstances.) These issues haven't discouraged me from using the component.

In any event, good luck finding an install that suits you Anonymous Hero!

Best,

A.


Btw. I concur with Incantatar that XP progression nerfs are a good way to rebalance the adventure- especially when solo. Item restrictions can certainly help too.

Modifié par Alesia_BH, 21 juillet 2011 - 08:10 .

[AnonymousHero]

Ok, thanks for the explanation, Alesia.

[AzureDrag0n1]

I would not instal the full pre buffs components at all. Mainly because it breaks Liches. You thought Liches where powerful before? This makes them into a super bosses. I would say they are more difficult then some Bhaal Spawn. They also just cast far too many buffs to the point that it is unreasonable to have that many on every mage you meet. Light hours long buffs makes more sense to me.

Anyway the reason the spell removal works through invisibility is because enemy mages would be almost invincible without it. They have perfect defense if it where a vanilla game where you have no way to hurt them normally. Invisibility is just far too powerful a buff when you have no way to remove it because they love to cast Spell Immunity: Divination. Without that component it just forces you to cheese. This actually makes you have fun fights with enemies instead of cheesing every mage you see.