49 réponses à ce sujet

[gibfranken]

I full well know that this is probably useless and nothing will most likely happen, (As usual) but I'm trying it anyway just in the off chance something might.

I figured that just like players have to follow rules on servers I figured the Dm's and people running the servers have to follow the rules of Obsidian/EA/Bioware rules for maintaining servers.

I bring this up because if others have to follow rules, so should the DM's.


Anyway, Here is the situation that happened on Sundren. My account name is gibfranken.

Now I don't know which clown did this, but I logged in only to find my character in quarantine for absolutely no reason. The character class was human so it wasn't a race thing like a cleric or anything like that.. it was just simply in quarantine.

I asked politely multiple times for a reason to be given, and was ignored and at times met with arrogance.

I then figured I would just make another character, well that one got islolated as well... So far this is totally uncalled for.

So upone having this happen for no reason I decided to say screw it, this is role playing so what happens when you isloate a person in real life, they go insane, so i decided to role play out the insanity part due to getting isloated. So I started Spamming the DM chat with HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa several times.

Then the server rebooted adn we were all in chat and apparently the DM was there and asked if anyone knows who did that. I said i did because you quarantined my character for no reason and asked for a reason. He then got mad and became arrogant saying I'm being rude to him like I was in the game.....

I said very simply you are griefing me, then when i bring up the fact your'e out of line you have the balls to say i'm teh one being rude.

I said I want you to explain to me how rolling a character, going into the game, and totally keeping to myself and playing is being rude and that I wanted to see screenshots of this so called behavior. If you don't like the DM channel spammed then maybe whichever DM decided to get cute and grief me, should have thought about that pulling a stunt like that. But you have no business coming down on me for a problem that was caused on your guys end. You pull a stunk like that, then expect me not to say anything back...Sorry that's not going to happen.

(NOW JUST A QUICK OVERVIEW BEFORE CONTINUING)
People's first reaction would be to say don't mouth off to a DM however if people cannot read this and see the DM totally deserved exactly what was done then players have issues becuase they don't grasp how things work...If anyone mouthed off to a DM like that FIRST people would be saying you shouldn't be griefing people but yet a DM can do it to a player and that isn't griefing?


Anyway to continue on...
I told him I'll just keep making characters and accounts because first of all I have done nothing wrong, and secondly you have provided no evidence.... I was then met with even more arrogance and a moronic statement of WE CAN BAN YOU FOR HOW YOU'RE ACTING RIGHT NOW.

I said Umm excuse me but you isloated me without cause then you were asked to provide proof and you're telling me I have an attitude?? How does that work and Anyway to make a long story short, I was banned for defending myself against a DM who does nothing but cause problems then use the problems he causes as ammunition for grounds to ban someone. And apparently he is buddies with a few other DMS because I tried getting on a couple of other servers to play and can't there either.

Myself or any player shouldn't have to be subjected to DM's and people like this on servers. And Behavior like this is being allowed and a player has no real way to defend themsselvs against this because people will always usually side with the DM and far be it for a DM to ever be at fault...

Again this is probably useless but If obsidian/Bioware/EA allows this type of inappropriate behavior to continue then this goes to show how much they care for their customer base is.

Now, despite asking several times, I still have never been given a reason for the isolation, as well as why I was treated and talked to like that, and no proof of any misconduct being provided.

Why is this behavior allowed by DM's if a player does it to a Dm that's one thing, but when a DM does it to a player that's a different story and people will say there must be a reason depsite there being none.

If anything can be provided showing misconduct in the game then so be it..but since none is there then I should be allowed back on the server.

A personal vendetta without grounds for some ungodly reason, isn't grounds for a ban and nor is it grounds to slander a player to other DM's...I can only imagine what lies were said.

i mean seriously doesn't anyone ever look into the DM's. Or do people just take the word on the DM just because they are DM's.

Now that this is out there, maybe someone can look into this, and if they cannot provide misconduct actions with proof, then the DM that did this and those that didn't bother looking into this fully, should all have their DM status revoked until they can learn how to be fair.

Modifié par gibfranken, 18 juillet 2011 - 07:44 .

[NWN DM]

There are no blanket "rules" for running a server.

In this case, you should post your concerns to the PW's website.

Keep in mind though that, as there are no "official" servers, the staff of any/all PWs are essentially volunteering their time and effort. In many cases, they are also using their own financial resources to fund the running of the server via hardware upgrades/purchases/updates and monthly hosting service fees.

As such, they are under no obligation to ask "how high?" when someone says "jump".

Not saying whether your 'concern' is valid or not; just giving you a little bit of background on how everything works with respect to on-line NWN2.

[Arkalezth]

Well, it's their server, so they're the ones applying the rules. It all reduces to: if you don't like it, go play somewhere else. And it's between you and them, we won't solve anything, nor Obsidian or Bioware. That said, if it all happened as you explain, did you really expect to be admitted again after trolling their chat and such?

That's all I have to say. Again, it's between you and them...

[gibfranken]

While I understand it's their server. it's too bad how a 9yr old can slander someone and people just roll over to them without checking things out.

It's not a big deal anyway as it's ony a game, and apparently people on the BG sword coast Chronicle server have enough brains to ignore the children or at least not allow themselves to be persuaded just on someone's word.

But I just thought just in case there was a slight off chance something might happen that I would post this issue . At least people now know how the children who run the server really are and all the DM's who just rolled over for this clown without checking should take lessons from the DM's on the BG server.

Modifié par gibfranken, 18 juillet 2011 - 08:07 .

[NWN DM]

Well, to be fair, people know how you perceive your experience on the server to have gone. There are always at least three sides to any disagreement after all.

This particular server has been around since shortly after the initial release of NWN2, so I suspect the average community member will assume they are, by and large, doing something "right".

[painofdungeoneternal]

Sounds like 2 separate issues, one was your character was in quarantine, whatever that means. Second was the reaction, well going off like a crazy person is disruptive. Both were of course not ideal ways of dealing with things, but they are still separate. The DM most likely would not be able to help you beyond relaying info to the Admin.

That server is not run by children, and every server can at any time give any player the boot for the mere reason the people who run the server, or the dm's are not having fun. From your description, i'd probably have a similar reaction, but i was not there so i have no idea what is right or wrong. However a DM is the judge, jury and executioner, if i had a DM ban a player for any reason i'd support them. I am 99% sure that DM followed up his actions with a complete description in a private DM forum so all the DM's and Staff on the PW can know what happened.

Now if i noticed it was happening repeatedly with a DM, sure i'd keep an eye on said DM and might remove them, but i would not change any judgements they've handed down. But generally DM's are looking for more players all the time, so this is unlikely.

I would say the best solution would be to find a server where you fit in better, where you get along with the DMs. I'd also suggest if something happens like this again, to post a question in the PW's forums or email the PW admin asking why, and if they can fix it instead of trying to deal with it in server. You might even be able to do this now, just focus on the initial issue and that you understand things could have been done more diplomatically.

Regardless bringing the issue to this forum is not the place to hash it out. It might prejudice what happens on other PWs for you, as the only thing people know about you is you've had some issue with DM's, which likely is nothing like what you are generally like.

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 18 juillet 2011 - 08:33 .

[gibfranken]

Regarding this

Sounds like 2 separate issues, one was your character was in quarantine, whatever that means. Second was the reaction, well going off like a crazy person is disruptive.

Statements like that are the true cause of the diruption and problems.

You clearly read theDM was at fault yert you pay absolutely ZERO ATTENTION to the what the DM you only focus on me.

This is about the DM'S TOTAL AND UTTER ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR AND ACTIONS. not about me spamming the chat. And I'm sick and tired of people not focusing on the cause of the problem whic is the DM.

So stop talking about what I did and start focusing on how wrong and in the wrong the DM is and was and start paying attention to the cause of the spam and when you can do that you and I can talk.

Until then I have nothing to say to you or anyone who even remotely tells me I'm in the wrong and cannot focus on the DM's wrong doing.

You are being rude to me by having the balls to say I was disruptive when i asn't.

Spamming the DM chat like that WAS NOT DISRUPTIVE AT ALL IN ANY WAY.

And you do not tell someone who has been vicitmized they shouldn't have done what they did. You only cause them arrogance towards yourself.

So until you can stop being rude towards me you and I have nothing to talk about.

Modifié par gibfranken, 18 juillet 2011 - 09:15 .

[Sethan_1]

Look at it from the other side. First, there are no rules for maintaining servers, other than those the servers set themselves. So there's no one to complain to outside that server's staff.

Secondly, you were acting like a griefer, so they treated you like one.

You made a character and were quarantined. When this happens on login, it is usually by script, and the script does that because it determined (rightly or wrongly) that there was something wrong with the PC you created. Usually that is because the PC is hacked or otherwise illegal for that server in some way. So, odds are there was no DM involved in isolating you. A DM -could- remove your PC from isolation - but they would only do so if they're pretty sure you aren't going to cause problems.

You asked why you were in isolation. There may or may not have been a DM online some of the times you did - some servers have DM logons hidden. A DM who was on may also have been busy running things for other players.

When you didn't get the response you wanted, you spammed the DM channel, making it difficult for them to do anything for their regular players. They're going to take a dim view of this, and it is pretty common for griefers.

Then the server rebooted. There are some bugs in the code that can be exploited to do this by griefers. You claimed responsibility when asked - so as far as they are concerned, you acted like a griefer and then claimed to have rebooted their server.

Now I would have banned you at this point if not before - but they kept talking to you - and you told them you were going to keep making characters and accounts and (presumably) causing problems on their server. So they banned you and told other server admins about you.

From my perspective, they did nothing wrong - and you're right - you shouldn't have mouthed off to a DM.

Your best bet at this point is to go play on servers where you haven't been banned, or if you -really- want to play in places where you've been banned, get a new copy of the game (and CD Key), wait for your IP address to change, clean out your overrides folder before making a new PC on the server, and be polite to the DMs. Its their server - and they can run it how they like.

[NWN DM]

gibfranken wrote...

Regarding this

Sounds like 2 separate issues, one was your character was in quarantine, whatever that means. Second was the reaction, well going off like a crazy person is disruptive.

Statements like that are the true cause of the diruption and problems.

You clearly read theDM was at fault yert you pay absolutely ZERO ATTENTION to the what the DM you only focus on me.

This is about the DM'S TOTAL AND UTTER ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR AND ACTIONS. not about me spamming the chat. And I'm sick and tired of people not focusing on the cause of the problem whic is the DM.

So stop talking about what I did and start focusing on how wrong and in the wrong the DM is and was and start paying attention to the cause of the spam and when you can do that you and I can talk.

Until then I have nothing to say to you or anyone who even remotely tells me I'm in the wrong and cannot focus on the DM's wrong doing.

You are being rude to me by having the balls to say I was disruptive when i asn't.

Spamming the DM chat like that WAS NOT DISRUPTIVE AT ALL IN ANY WAY.

And you do not tell someone who has been vicitmized they shouldn't have done what they did. You only cause them arrogance towards yourself.

So until you can stop being rude towards me you and I have nothing to talk about.

1. We only have your "word" (which is getting more dubious by every follow-up post because of the OTT reaction to pretty straightforward and neutral replies) that things happened exactly as you stated.
2. Repeatedly posting over and over and over and over and over (...) in any channel, the DM channel especially, is generally considered spam and highly disruptive, going back to the early servers when NWN was new.
3. Haven't seen anyone being rude to you... perhaps there is a definition I am unaware of.



Well, at least now this thread, which obviously was only going to go in one direction, can end since you won't be posting anything else.



Bottom line; any server's admin team can ban any player for any reason.  One hopes that said reason(s) would be valid, but this is not necessarily always the case.

In all likelihood, something happened to put your PC in quarantine, which was, based on experience with PWs that use this approach, is a temporary state until whatever caused it is resolved.  Your reaction after the fact obviously didn't help matters. 

You would have best been served sending a private PM to someone in charge of the server team, to see what caused the quarantine, and how to have it removed... it seems likely at this point, however, that this avenue is no longer open to you.  In that case, I would suggest you try one of the other servers out there, keeping in mind that as a player, you are essentially a 'guest' in the DM's home (metaphorically speaking)... don't expect to be welcome if you come in and take a dump on the living room carpet.

Modifié par NWN DM, 18 juillet 2011 - 10:00 .

[gibfranken]

@ Both & Sethan_1 and NWN DM.

All you have is my word... UMMM When you can go find me any proof of my wrong doing on the server then present that to back up what you're saying. until then stop making lame ass excuses for DM behavior.

Key factor is PROOF OF WRONG DOING.

Fact: My character was isloated..
FACT there is no reason
FACT there is no evidence to support that I have done anything t warrent isloation


Now the both of you and anyone else who clearly likes to provoke me further needs to step off Or deal with my attitude towards you that has been caused due to peoples sheer stupidity.

VERY PLAIN ANS SIMPLE THE TOPIC EXPLAINS EVERYTHING.

You all seem to think the isloation was deserved but yet not one of you have any evidence to show that and neither does the DM.
So you all need to back off and simply except the DM caused the problem..

The fact that there is no evidence proves everything.

END OF STORY

[NWN DM]

OK cool story bro.

[kamal_]

You should call EA support. They'll give those DM's a smacking! Also you should record that call and post it here.

Modifié par kamal_, 19 juillet 2011 - 01:24 .

[kalbaern]

kamal_ wrote...

You should call EA support. They'll give those DM's a smacking! Also you should record that call and post it here.

ROFL

[painofdungeoneternal]

Sometimes you have to learn that some people are always right, no if's and's or but's. This includes police officers in third world countries, your wife if you ever get married, and DM's.

A DM's job is to be the final decision maker. Does not matter if you did something, did nothing at all, or even if what you were doing was extremely helpful. If a DM decides to roll a 12 sided dice and ban that player from the server permamently, that is entirely their choice. No matter how unfair, they are by definition always right unless you happen to be running your own PW and they are working for you. The only choice you have to go play elsewhere, and if enough players leave it will become another empty PW.

Basically it does not matter at all if you were right and the DM was wrong, I will just assume for a moment the DM was completely off base and you did nothing at all wrong, and things happened exactly as you described. The DM is entirely justified in doing whatever malicious thing they feel like for the simple reason they are the DM.

From what has been posted, i'd say this thread is going to help make more players looking for a PW be aware of Sundren, and what you have described is exactly the sort of thing many players i know of happen to look for.

Now if you want to play on my PW ( dungeon eternal in action ), by all means come and join. I have no problem with players laughing like that in shout or the DM channel, as long as it is still somewhat amusing, and it's not repeated so often it becomes irritating. But that is because each PW has different rules. No one is being rude to you, i just am trying to point out that your contention that you are right is completely irrelevant, it is the DM's choice what happens on their PW just like it is my choice what happens on my PW.

[gibfranken]

painofdungeoneternal

no matter what you say teh DM was abusive and had no business doing that. then repremanding me.

You can look at it any way you want to but I'm right and he is wrong and all of you stikcing of for a dm and this type of behavior just show how all of you are. You full well know he is in the wrong and yet you're defending him anyway.

A DM is supposed to be fair...not ban someone just because they called them on something they did that they shouldn't have done.


I mean seriously how stupid does a person have to be to isloate someoens character for no reason, ignore any and all polite requests on why at least 5 times, then have the balls to come into a chat and ask who spamed teh DM chat...If you have to ask who did that after pulling that with someone, you really are a retard.

[painofdungeoneternal]

I tell that to my wife, i still end up on the couch when i am right. I don't like the couch, hence my wife is always right.

Note i am "assuming" EVERYTHING you are saying is gospel truth. You still have not gotten around the fact that a DM does not need ANY reason for any decision they make. They are judge, jury, executioner and also god as long as you are on a server they are on. The basic fact of the matter is that nothing you are saying affects any of that, and whether you are right or not is just plain beside the point.

The issue here is that arguing with a DM is just plain foolish, far worse than what you are trying to describe the DM as being, as is trying to convince me and the other people here that this specific DM is wrong. Until you go back to that DM and convince them you are right, you are going to remain in quarantine and banned.

Life is not fair, DM's do not have to be fair. Find another server to play on, and remember if ANY DM decides anything, no matter how nonsensical they are the ones who get to decide what is right or wrong on their server. Your sole recourse is to go play somewhere else, or start your own server and be your own DM. Frankly the more abusive i am the more players seem to enjoy themselves, go figure.

The answer to your question is, NO it is not possible to report anyone. You are on other peoples property, and those people have the right to choose who they do and don't play with. They can just at a whim take their toys and go home. This is why people like NWN2, it's all up to our own whims and we don't have to just deal with folks like you do in the big MMO's.

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 19 juillet 2011 - 06:03 .

[Haplose]

The DM most likely didn't isolate your character. Your character was most likely isolated by some automated script. Like anti-cheating scripts a sever I played at had. Or script preventing Player Killing abuse (once you collected a number of PK points).

A DM could have released you - after he checked everything was okay. In his available time, when he wasn't busy with other stuff. But I'm guessing you were too annoying in your demands.

[painofdungeoneternal]

Read commandments 1-4

10 commandments of D&D

• The DM is God
• The DM is always right.
• If the DM is wrong, prove it.
• If the DM is proven wrong, refer back to #1 and #2.
• If you say it, you play it. (Basically, whatever you say you do, you do. You can't take it back.)
• The Players are not the Characters. (Don't get mad at the character because you are mad at the player)
• The PC's are the Heroes. Reguardless of their allignment, they are the good guys, their enemies are the bad guys, and everyone else doesn't matter.
• The characters are Adventurers, not Gods. Basically, there's always something out there that can, and most likely will kick your arse if you get too high up on that horse.
• Characters are not Players. If you've read the monster manual, that doesn't mean your character succeeds every knowledge skill check on them. If you can see the miniature, that doesn't mean your blind character can.
• My Name is not Monty Haul. I am not a game show host. I'm not going to give you awesome stuff for absolutely nothing. You have to work for your awesome items. Mithral Godplate Armor doesn't exactly grow on trees.

( from http://community.wiz...s_of_D38;D?pg=5 )

[Shallina]

It's a fan provided service without any commercial contract or agreement.

They can do what ever they want in their servers since they are the one runing them, maintening them, updating them, and also the one who scripted it and made the area.

NWN2 is all about having 100% freedom with what you can do with it. In that regard it can't be compared to a commercial MMO where they are bound to stay clean and where they are engaging themself about a support.

For a NWN2 server it's all up to the good will of the admin. If he doesn't want to see you on his server beceause he doesn't like you, he can lock you.

If he wants to gives all the good items to the next player on a whim and strip you from all your items and XP, he can do it as well.

And if they want to shut down their server without any notice, they can do it as well. it's not zaa commercial service, and there is no contract at all between a server admin and a player. The admin is all powerfull and can do what ever he wants.

Modifié par Shallina, 19 juillet 2011 - 06:38 .

[Seagloom]

You should honestly let this go and start fresh on another server. I have no idea if the DM is at fault or had a legitimate reason to punish you. What I do know from my stint as a NWN1 DM and years as a player on another server is no side is immune to shenanigans. There are bad players and bad DMs. If you run into the latter and find they are incapable of politely addressing your concerns, then try going over their head and asking an administrator for answers. Usually that is the head DM and server operator unless the PW has a special DM to act as a sort of internal affairs officer.

Spamming DM chat with laughing is not role-playing. It is directing rage at the party you believed wronged you. For all you know it was not even that specific DM who originally decided to put you under probation or however it works on Sundren. He or she could be upholding another DM's ruling, and not be aware of all the specifics involved.

Whatever the case may be you should put this incident behind you and move on. Justified in their actions or not, you clearly burned this bridge.

[SHOVA]

First you logged into someone elses game, You should folow their rules, and be polite to them, even if the scripting or staff does something you do not agree with.
Second, every player should be aware by now, There is a PW admin movement going where they talk to each other, share griefer info, and are helping to blanket bann anyone, that causes a problem on any server. That translates to cause a problem on a server, most likely get the bann on several. This Admin movement is not going to go away. It is infact going to generate some great PW security systems for the community to use. As a former admin, I believe the handholding and training of "problem players" is over, most Admins do not have the time, nor desire to work through some bad behavior, they would rather the problem player moved on. you should also note, these PW admins have had griefers IPs remove the griefer from thier clients.
3rd if you do not agree with the way someone runs their server, play somewhere else, or, make your own. No one is charging you to play there, it is not a requirement for you only log into that server.
4th don't air dirty laundry about a PW here, as most PW admins do not read these forums. The do however usualy have a PW website and forums for their players to post on. Your more likely to get a responce, even a go away on those forums than here. As most of the community will tell you, your posting in the wrong place. We don;'t care what The PW does to you, as you choose to log in there.

[gibfranken]

Why is everyone making a big deal about this and posting huge wall-o-text replies saying things trying to justify this douche bags behavior and making up all sorts of excuses.

I'm right he is wrong, and people justifying a total morons behavior isn't going to help matters.

There is nothing more to discuss it's over and done with.

I already said nothing would happen with this but was mearly giving it a shot, now that nothing will happen JUST LIKE IS SAID SO AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS TOPIC. But all of you replying here seem to think I don't grasp that and continue justifying idiotic behavior.

The only thing I did was keep the focus on this abusive DM whenever someoen here posted and excuse and justification for unexcusable behavior.

Like the comment SHOVA posted above me.

SHOVE nothing you said is relevant. The DM was abusive and that is all there is too it. Making aup all this crap about how it's there server is nothing more than a cop out excuse to justify uncalled for abusive behavior.

In fact nothing anyone posted about has any relevance to what I'm talking about. You simply do not treat people abusivily, then when someone says something about it everyone under teh sun makes up excuses and posts comments to justify this behavior.

All of you need to learn how to get along in real life if you think justifying misconduct is perfectly fine and don't have a problem with abusive behavior. Because it's very clear all of you find no fault at what happened. I mean seriously all of you spend more time making up justification excuses as to why it's ok to abuse someone, rather than realize abuse OF ANY KIND REGARDLESS is unexceptable.

All of you are unreal

And it's clear that people here due to their replies would think it's ok for that same DM to abuse a child in his own home. and then when the child came forward they would be met with the same exact type of excuse comments from all of you replying here with:

It's his home, it's his house, it's his rules, you went into HIS HOUSE.

And don't anyone of you even bother trying to say you wouldn't all of your replies show exactly what would happen.

ABUSE IS ABUSE no matter what kind, it's unexcuable and doesn't give anyone the right to do it and they are in the wrong no matter what. The sooner all of you stop using justification excuses for someone's abuse, the better off you will all be in real life.

Modifié par gibfranken, 19 juillet 2011 - 03:05 .

[kevL]

test .. test

Modifié par kevL, 19 juillet 2011 - 03:14 .

[Shallina]

The admin is in the right, it's his server, so it's his game. He does what ever he wants with it. Even if it's not "correct practice".

The admin on a NWN or NWN2 server has all right to do what ever he wants, even if you don't like it. He own the server, he own the mod that run on it. He own the scripts. It's his realm. And for that reason he has all the right in his realm.

If he want a certain player perma dead, it's his right.  They have 0 obligations toward players on their server, on their server they are the absolute law. And if they make a law to permaban you, what ever the reason, it's their right.

All those server are private server, and if they want to kick someone out of their house, they can.

You have 2 solution : play somewhere else, or make your own realm.

Modifié par Shallina, 19 juillet 2011 - 03:36 .

[Seagloom]

Then why, pray tell, did you even start this thread? What is your objective here? To vent? That must be it judging from your posts. Truth be told, I am more inclined to believe this supposedly abusive DM over you for three simple reasons:

1. The tone in your writing is dismissive and tinged with rage.

2. Your explanation of what transpired does not paint you as entirely blameless for the ultimate outcome.

3. You chose to vent about this here instead of the server's official forums. Hell, you created an account for the sole purpose of posting this diatribe.

Judging by your most recent reaction, you seem agitated that no one here is blindly leaping to your side to offer comfort. Small wonder given your side is the only one we are aware of. While I may have run into my share of bad DMs over the years, I will not readily agree with a random disgruntled player that someone I never met or saw in action is so terrible without a shred of proof. All we have is your story, and it is painfully obvious how biased that is.

Sundren is a privately owned server that the DMs can run however they see fit. That is fact; regardless of anything else you believe. It is not equatable with child rearing. Bad DM and player behavior is not going to be as damaging to a person as being abused as a child. That you would even make that comparison is asinine.

tl;dr - Grow a pair and get over it.

Modifié par Seagloom, 19 juillet 2011 - 03:48 .