358 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

Lizardviking wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

So... they got rid of everything that made C&C C&C in the first place? o.0

It sounds like they were trying to make a Dawn of War clone

Yeah and the Scrin are no longer a playable faction, in fact I don't even know if they're in it at all.

Didn't they also make Kane's ultimative "plan" into him simply wanting to go home to whereever he came from?

Beats me, I know nothing of that game's story.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Seboist wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

So... they got rid of everything that made C&C C&C in the first place? o.0

It sounds like they were trying to make a Dawn of War clone

Yeah and the Scrin are no longer a playable faction, in fact I don't even know if they're in it at all.

Didn't they also make Kane's ultimative "plan" into him simply wanting to go home to whereever he came from?

Beats me, I know nothing of that game's story.

Personally just saw the ending on youtube. Did not bother to buy the game.

Just seems like such an underwhelming plan considering how many world wars he ahd started.

[Someone With Mass]

C&C ended with 3, in my opinion.

It all went downhill from there.

[Arijharn]

Ah, Stealth Tanks. I was a Noddie through and through.

Anyway.

About the Reapers, how on Earth (heh, pun?) are we going to make sure that we've destroyed all of them? Since they can hibernate for at least 50k years, and the sheer size of the galaxy+, it seems like a herculean task to find and stop them all.

[Seboist]

Lizardviking wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Lizardviking wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

So... they got rid of everything that made C&C C&C in the first place? o.0

It sounds like they were trying to make a Dawn of War clone

Yeah and the Scrin are no longer a playable faction, in fact I don't even know if they're in it at all.

Didn't they also make Kane's ultimative "plan" into him simply wanting to go home to whereever he came from?

Beats me, I know nothing of that game's story.

Personally just saw the ending on youtube. Did not bother to buy the game.

Just seems like such an underwhelming plan considering how many world wars he ahd started.

That was the actual story...... seriously? Damn, there's no way Bioware could top that no matter how much they ruin Cerberus and TIM...........or could they?

[Arijharn]

Sure they could, they could actually make TIM indoctrinated, and worse, indoctrinated from the moment he was exposed to the Arca monolith.

[Icinix]

Someone With Mass wrote...

C&C ended with 3, in my opinion.

It all went downhill from there.

You're being generous - I was tempted to say it ended with Firestorm.

[Arijharn]

I liked Tiberian Sun, I didn't actually like Firestorm all that much... especially since I couldn't actually be Cabal.

Having said that, the last mission was fun, when you realise you're basically playing a mirror match up on Cabal's single base.

[Seboist]

Arijharn wrote...

Sure they could, they could actually make TIM indoctrinated, and worse, indoctrinated from the moment he was exposed to the Arca monolith.

That sad thing is that some on here actually think he was indoctrinated since the Arca monolith.

[Seboist]

Icinix wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

C&C ended with 3, in my opinion.

It all went downhill from there.

You're being generous - I was tempted to say it ended with Firestorm.

It ended with Firestorm for me.

[Arijharn]

Seboist wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

Sure they could, they could actually make TIM indoctrinated, and worse, indoctrinated from the moment he was exposed to the Arca monolith.

That sad thing is that some on here actually think he was indoctrinated since the Arca monolith.

Of course they do, it would vindicate their viewpoint quite easily. Would make them feel confident that their powers of categorisation is nigh prophetic.

I honestly loathe that viewpoint, because nobody's position should be beyond reproach imo. No one's position should be exempt to the potentiality of being 'second guessed.'

That's why I fervently hope that TIM somehow turns out to be a hero for choosing a hard decision that will save people. I wouldn't mind if the SA, at a later date, hushes it all up, but I want the player to know that the actions of a 'criminal mastermind' was altruistic. Would be a nice change of pace imo for the character.

[didymos1120]

Seboist wrote...


That sad thing is that some on here actually think he was indoctrinated since the Arca monolith.

I don't know why, since the comic clearly contradicts the idea.  Had he been, he wouldn't have done what he did.

[Seboist]

didymos1120 wrote...

Seboist wrote...


That sad thing is that some on here actually think he was indoctrinated since the Arca monolith.

I don't know why, since the comic clearly contradicts the idea.  Had he been, he wouldn't have done what he did.

Yeah and he didn't recieve a direct burst from the monolith like Shepard did from Object Rho, nor was he around it for two days straight. I'd sooner believe Shepard was indoctrinated than TIM.

[Arijharn]

I think the whole plot of ME2 contradicts the idea. Why would the reaper's activate an Indoctrinated slave to sabotage their own 'recruitment' methods? That's as inane as Fixer saying that the Systems Alliance doesn't protect Earth.

[Arijharn]

Seboist wrote...

Yeah and he didn't recieve a direct burst from the monolith like Shepard did from Object Rho, nor was he around it for two days straight. I'd sooner believe Shepard was indoctrinated than TIM.

Actually, I'd like to see some sort of effect of Shephard struggling with the whole idea of Indoctrination. I mean, Shephard is special, if anybody should be able to struggle off the effects of Indoctrination with nothing more than a steely glint in their eye it should be Shephard... or Zaeed.

IMO, it would be a good chance for some psycho-analysis on how Shephard became Shephard, might be a good way to introduce Pre-history and service checks into the game so that players could have a chance to see how their hero came to be.

A bit like Master Li taunting you over Two Rivers in his phantasm world I guess.

[Seboist]

Arijharn wrote...

I think the whole plot of ME2 contradicts the idea. Why would the reaper's activate an Indoctrinated slave to sabotage their own 'recruitment' methods? That's as inane as Fixer saying that the Systems Alliance doesn't protect Earth.

TIM being indoctrinated all along would be something so stupid and convoluted that it would put the MGS series to shame. It would imply the Reapers are too inept to coordinate with each other or that one with a grudge was working on screwing over Harbinger.

[Arijharn]

Wow, so convoluted it would even put MGS to shame? That's a bold claim Seboist! That series has more inane plot twists than one of those awesome slinkies (I think they're called...)

[Seboist]

Arijharn wrote...

Wow, so convoluted it would even put MGS to shame? That's a bold claim Seboist! That series has more inane plot twists than one of those awesome slinkies (I think they're called...)

If "indoctrination" becomes the equalivent of MGS' "nanomachines" or Castlevania's "Dracula's magic" then you bet it will.

[alperez]

Arijharn wrote...

I think the whole plot of ME2 contradicts the idea. Why would the reaper's activate an Indoctrinated slave to sabotage their own 'recruitment' methods? That's as inane as Fixer saying that the Systems Alliance doesn't protect Earth.

Tim's actions in me2 in no way rule out that he's been exposed to indoctrination and that like with Saren before him he retains some free will.

We've seen people who are indoctrinated act as if they aren't, people who are indoctrinated do things against that indoctrination so why if its revealed in me3 that TIM's indoctrinated would this go against logic?

A simple scenario is Tim's indoctrination is akin to a man dying of a disease, a disease that's not fully taken over his body and that everything TIM's done up to this point is to stop that indoctrination from fully controlling him.

We know he's been exposed and that the object changed him in some way, we also know he hears things about the reapers in his head. What if what he hears is the first steps of indoctrination but because his exposure was such there is some kind of block stopping the indoctrination happening as normal.

But when we get to me3 because of the proximity and number of reapers around he can no longer block that indoctrination which leads to what we know about me3, cerberus after shepard.

What if its explained that everything TIM's done up to this point has not been about saving earth or humanity but saving himself, the experiments, the collection of reaper tech, the studies all of this to stop himself being indoctrinated completely.

Would that not make him a tragic character, a man who set out with certain idealistic goals and the best intentions only for events to conspire to turn him into the one thing he fought so hard against.

TIM not humanities biggest hero but its most tragic villan.

[Arijharn]

Because saving himself at the expense of everything else doesn't make him morally gray? It conforms to your expectations of his character.

If he does those things but at some point realises he's doing it and then tries to counter-balance it (even though it's going to be for naught in the end because he can't stop the process) then he becomes more sympathetic. You get to put your bullet in his head and make yourself happy, but you can't say: "Oh, TIM is a villain through and through."

Categorization of anything (even the Reapers) I think is a no-no, because there is no such thing as black and white morality imo.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Speaking of Cerberus getting out of hand: click

I mean, of all the possible places...

[Seboist]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Speaking of Cerberus getting out of hand: click

I mean, of all the possible places...

If I was into tatts I'd get me a Cerberus one too.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Same here, but I'd rather go with an upper arm one.

[Arijharn]

It could have been worse I suppose, it actually could have been a tat of the Illusive Man!

[Ye Olde Gamer]

Arijharn wrote...

I think the whole plot of ME2 contradicts the idea. Why would the reaper's activate an Indoctrinated slave to sabotage their own 'recruitment' methods? That's as inane as Fixer saying that the Systems Alliance doesn't protect Earth.

Honestly, I think ME2's plot would work quite well if tIM had been indoctrinated all along.  It would certainly explain why he kept sending you into harms way with minimal information and preparation.  It would also explain why he was so insistent you spend your time stopping the Collectors, rather than focusing on the far more significant threat of the Reapers themselves.  It would beg the question of why he tried to ressurect Shepard in the first place, but there are probably explanations for that that would make at lest as much sense as why he's suddenly trying to kill Shep in ME3.

So I don't think there's any real reason tIM had to be "on your side" in ME2.  Having said that, I think it wouold still be a bad idea for a plot twist.  It would make the whole "shades of grey" idea entirely pointless.  Worse, the twist would have been very poorly foreshadowed. Yes, plenty of people warned us not to trust tIM, but the whole point of the game was that Cerberus was supposed to be the only group working against the Reapers.  If they weren't actually doing that, if everything that happened in ME2 prior to Arrival was a big waste of time, then Shepard winds up looking like an idiot.  Not good.