358 réponses à ce sujet

[SandTrout]

@Arijharn,

I have read most of the theories on Cerberus's involvment with the Reapers, and posted one of my own. I just didn't feel like going into detail b/c it's kind of off topic for this thread.

[Someone With Mass]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Because that isn't the Cerberus logo, it's the Cord-Hislop Aerospace logo.

The name of that company is flawless too. I mean, who would be smart enough to cross-check the name with Alliance data bases and find out that there were two individuals with similar names that followed and worked with Jack Harper?

Placing the logo on everything is a genius move too, since no-one will suspect if that company's employees are doing suspicious work that has nothing to do with spaceships.

[Drone223]

ME3 is about stoping the Reapers finally yet Cerberus makes 40% of the enimies, I fear that Cerberus will become the Blue suns, Eclipse and Blood Pack of ME3 and Inductrination has been offically over used already, there are plenty of other reasons why Cerberus could have turned on Shepard I hope Bioware do come up with something regarding their plot 

[SandTrout]

Saphra Deden wrote...

For once I agree with Someone With Mass.

Isn't that a sign of the Apocalypse?

[Someone With Mass]

It would've been better if ME2 had let us know more about the alien societies, since we're going to rally them all up to fight the Reapers.

I mean, we know virtually nothing about most Citadel races, like the turian Hierarchy, the drell's religions/philosophy, the salarian STG or their overall military. Building up these races would've been better than throwing us blindly into ME3 and expect us to care about these alien races we know little to nothing about.

[GodWood]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Xarathox wrote...
If BW had the intention of using Cerberus as one of the primary focus' in ME2 and onwards from the beginning, I think they definitely could've built them up a lot more in ME1 than they did, which was entirely in passing for a couple of side missions.

Since they left them obscure in the first game, that tells me the writers are mostly flying by the seat of their pants for each sequel.

I've always felt that way too. The Collectors should have had at least a tiny cameo in ME1 too. Nothing overt, just something subtle that would click with the player at some point in ME2 and they'd realize, "Hey! That was the Collectors back in ME1!)"

Shepard's death was also cleverly never planned ahead of time as is evidenced by the fact that ME1 already toys with this idea right at the ending. Which looks silly if you play ME2 right after ME1.

Shepard gets killed by the debris from Sovereign, but then charges heroically from the wreckage. Then you fire up ME2... and Shepard dies, and then he's alive again and 20 minutes later you're back on the Normandy with Joker.

It's really too bad they didn't plan more of the trilogy out of ahead of time. I suppose part of it could be that some of the important people who shaped ME1 were taken off the ME2 team to work on KOTOR and EA bought out Bioware. I think that's why the extra stuff for ME2 sucked. I loved the bonus content with ME1 because you really got a lot of insight from the developers and artists on every aspect of the game including content that never made it into the finished product (like Caleston).


Anyway, I think another example of the devs flying by the seat of their pants is ME3 and Cerberus being enemies. In Retribution the Illusive Man muses that Cerberus and Shepard may work together again in the future and at the end of the novel he is actually relieved that now Cerberus won't be working against the Reapers by themselves. It's why he lets Aria take a copy of the Cerberus data and isn't angry with Anderson. The main event of the book as well is the turian raid which greatly weakens Cerberus, nearly killing it, actually.

Cerberus will survive, but it is clear they've been greatly hurt and will need to rebuild. The implication to me at the time was that this was why we wouldn't be following the same format in ME3 as we did in ME2. Cerberus would be too weak to provide Shepard with much support, forcing him to take a more independent approach towards rallying the galaxy without the benefit of Cerberus intel or funding. Retribution effectively reduced Cerberus' role so that ME3 would be more free to do something else with Shepard.


...and then it turns out they're working with the Reapers and have an army.

Whatever.

That was an excellent post

[Dem_B]

Someone With Mass wrote...

It would've been better if ME2 had let us know more about the alien societies, since we're going to rally them all up to fight the Reapers.

I mean, we know virtually nothing about most Citadel races, like the turian Hierarchy, the drell's religions/philosophy, the salarian STG or their overall military. Building up these races would've been better than throwing us blindly into ME3 and expect us to care about these alien races we know little to nothing about.

Dem_B wrote...

Finished Mass Effect 1, I did not know what will happen in Mass Effect 2. But when I started to play Mass Effect 2, I thought, "Why should I deal with these problems? I have not been waiting for this of Mass Effect 2"
For me, Mass Effect 1 shows humanity as part of the galactic community, how humanity to strive to become a more important part of it. But now it seems to me that humanity want to become not just part of the galactic culture, humanity strive to become the ruler of the galaxy.
Cerberus embodies the idea of an all-powerful company that controls all spheres of society, this idea has become popular in these times.
The most important plot is not how to stop the Reapers, everybody understands that we will win them, the most important what benefits we will get.
Reapers are not a threat but a means for rising the Illusive Man to the top of domination.
But this is not a story in which I would like to participate. I have not been waiting for this of Mass Effect.

[SandTrout]

It does not necessarily make a whole lot of sense to use ME2 to introduce the players to more alien society, because that is not the focus of the mission. ME3 is likely going to be the main source for specifics on the other species because we spend the game rallying them.

ME1: Very broad introduction to the main aspects of Galactic Society such as political structure, the roles of the various species, and the introduction of the main antagonist.

ME2: Addition of a number characters that are assumed to have some significant role in the overall story, in depth interaction with a powerful, but shady entity within our own species. Kneecap one of the main antagonists key projects. Still had some direct exposure to alien societies on Tchuchanka and Illium.

ME3: Characters fulfill their roles in the story; extensive direct exposure to alien societies as you seek to rally them for mutual defense and to directly confront the main antagonist.

Using ME2 as the main avanue to expose players to alien societies would have detracted from the (already somewhat disjointed) plot of the game. ME3 is the appropriate place to make these kinds of intimate cultural exposure.

[Someone With Mass]

Dem_B wrote...
*snip*

Cerberus is not representing humanity as a whole.

[Dem_B]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Cerberus is not representing humanity as a whole.

Illusive Man does not need to represent the interests of all humanity. Not all supported Hitler, but he became the head of Germany.
Illusive Man has more than Hitler, he's got money, information, technology and contacts.
He made a disaster which led to the emergence of biotic abilities in humans. He did not not stop at anything.
I would not be surprised if he knew about Reapers long before Shepard. He planned the crash of Normandy. Even if Sheppard has destroyed the Collectors base it's not was to him a great loss. He planned everything. Reapers are not a threat to him but a final means for rising.

[Inverness Moon]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Because that isn't the Cerberus logo, it's the Cord-Hislop Aerospace logo.

The name of that company is flawless too. I mean, who would be smart enough to cross-check the name with Alliance data bases and find out that there were two individuals with similar names that followed and worked with Jack Harper?

Placing the logo on everything is a genius move too, since no-one will suspect if that company's employees are doing suspicious work that has nothing to do with spaceships.

I think the logo being everywhere is northing more than art direction. It obviously does't make sense for them to do that in Mass Effect reality, so I think BioWare just likes the symbolism of it.

Dem_B wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Cerberus is not representing humanity as a whole.

Illusive Man does not need to represent the interests of all humanity. Not all supported Hitler, but he became the head of Germany.
Illusive Man has more than Hitler, he's got money, information, technology and contacts.
He made a disaster which led to the emergence of biotic abilities in humans. He did not not stop at anything.
I would not be surprised if he knew about Reapers long before Shepard. He planned the crash of Normandy. Even if Sheppard has destroyed the Collectors base it's not was to him a great loss. He planned everything. Reapers are not a threat to him but a final means for rising.

Oh boy, here we go! More of these asinine Hitler comparisons.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 19 juillet 2011 - 08:09 .

[Phaedon]

Absolutely not.

Cerberus was being set up as the villain in both of the previous games. Especially ME2 where we discover the role of TIM. We need a human enemy to sort of, "connect" to, you know, an easy one to hate. It's pretty hard to do that with sentient starships.

TIM will take a similar role that Saren took in ME1, and well, I think that TIM is infinitely more deep than Saren was. I couldn't think of a better antagonist.

And well, think about it, who do you hate more, the Reapers or Cerberus?
Logically you would say the Reapers, but I think that you haven't created any strong feelings against them. Unlike Cerberus. Were you ever pissed off by the Reapers?

[CroGamer002]

^Pretty much that.

[Phaedon]

Inverness Moon wrote...
Oh boy, here we go! More of these asinine Hitler comparisons.

It's a perfectly good comparison, and the fact that people have started comparing him to Hitler, means that they have created strong negative feelings towards him, and that's what BioWare wants.

Besides, "Our rightful place on the stars" and "We want to ensure human domination" don't translate very well.

Both Hitler and Harper are maciavellian.

Modifié par Phaedon, 19 juillet 2011 - 08:16 .

[Mister Mida]

Phaedon wrote...

And well, think about it, who do you hate more, the Reapers or Cerberus?

Reapers. I only get annoyed by Cerberus because everywhere I go they pop up.

Logically you would say the Reapers, but I think that you haven't created any strong feelings against them. Unlike Cerberus.

Speak for yourself and see my answer above.

Were you ever pissed off by the Reapers?

Yes.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 19 juillet 2011 - 08:18 .

[Someone With Mass]

Dem_B wrote...

Illusive Man does not need to represent the interests of all humanity. Not all supported Hitler, but he became the head of Germany.
Illusive Man has more than Hitler, he's got money, information, technology and contacts.
He made a disaster which led to the emergence of biotic abilities in humans. He did not not stop at anything.
I would not be surprised if he knew about Reapers long before Shepard. He planned the crash of Normandy. Even if Sheppard has destroyed the Collectors base it's not was to him a great loss. He planned everything. Reapers are not a threat to him but a final means for rising.

Still doesn't explain how some mercenary loser like Jack Harper got all those fundings or so many followers to even start doing what he's doing.

[Massadonious1]

Not that I would make such an analogy, but you're surprised people would equate a fictional "extremist" (since terrorist is apparently debatable, even though Jacob suggests as such) with a real life extremist?

I'm not saying that BioWare drew such a comparison either, but they clearly got their inspiration for the character from someone or something. They didn't sit down and decide that they would make this cool guy like TIM, who wasn't afraid of anything, and who ordered all these scientific experiments and all the other "projects" that Cerberus was a part of because no one has ever done this before in the history of ever!

[Phaedon]

Mister Mida wrote...
-snip-

At which point were you pissed off by the Reapers, like really pissed off?

[CrazyRah]

I do agree with what Phaedon say. Bioware has really done a great job making me dislike Cerberus a lot and quite often more then the Reapers. TIM is perfect for replacing Saren

Modifié par CommanderSarah, 19 juillet 2011 - 08:26 .

[Phaedon]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Dem_B wrote...

Illusive Man does not need to represent the interests of all humanity. Not all supported Hitler, but he became the head of Germany.
Illusive Man has more than Hitler, he's got money, information, technology and contacts.
He made a disaster which led to the emergence of biotic abilities in humans. He did not not stop at anything.
I would not be surprised if he knew about Reapers long before Shepard. He planned the crash of Normandy. Even if Sheppard has destroyed the Collectors base it's not was to him a great loss. He planned everything. Reapers are not a threat to him but a final means for rising.

Still doesn't explain how some mercenary loser like Jack Harper got all those fundings or so many followers to even start doing what he's doing.

There's more to it than that, he and his band of "specialists", worked too close with the Alliance, if you ask me.
Hislop also talks about joining "the cause", and TIM speaks in plural about those who lost Hislop and Core.

My guess is that he started as this black ops group loosely affiliated with the Alliance, and then got more ex-military (and why not, serving soldiers) fanatics to support him.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

What do we need a human enemy for? We don't need human enemies is disaster films and the Reapers might as well be a natural disaster. They're an unstoppable force of nature (in a sense) here to wreck our ****. Sovereign was a great villain, and Sovereign was Reaper. We have Harbringer too.

Why do we need TIM to be a villain?

I think most players just want an excuse, any excuse, to kill him off as a badguy.

Or it's BioWare's excuse to include human enemies in ME3.

[Dem_B]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Dem_B wrote...

Illusive Man does not need to represent the interests of all humanity. Not all supported Hitler, but he became the head of Germany.
Illusive Man has more than Hitler, he's got money, information, technology and contacts.
He made a disaster which led to the emergence of biotic abilities in humans. He did not not stop at anything.
I would not be surprised if he knew about Reapers long before Shepard. He planned the crash of Normandy. Even if Sheppard has destroyed the Collectors base it's not was to him a great loss. He planned everything. Reapers are not a threat to him but a final means for rising.

Still doesn't explain how some mercenary loser like Jack Harper got all those fundings or so many followers to even start doing what he's doing.

Please read and you will see how similar they are. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler

[Phaedon]

Saphra Deden wrote...

What do we need a human enemy for? We don't need human enemies is disaster films and the Reapers might as well be a natural disaster. They're an unstoppable force of nature (in a sense) here to wreck our ****. Sovereign was a great villain, and Sovereign was Reaper. We have Harbringer too.

Why do we need TIM to be a villain?

I think most players just want an excuse, any excuse, to kill him off as a badguy.

Stop saying that Sovereign was a great villain. You literally spoke with him for seconds. You don't know if he is a good or a bad villain.

I have yet to meet a natural disaster in disaster movies that I wanted to shoot. It's not about needing TIM to be a villain, TIM was used in ME2 so that he could turn up as the villain in ME3, anyway, it's about needing a human villain in the first place.

You will either not connect to the detached Reaper enemy, or you will learn too much from the interaction and spoil the alien feel of the Reapers.