33 réponses à ce sujet

[ProneToGlory]

My PC is very Pious. He is a Templar, self trained that is, so I don't see what is wrong with him being a womanizer. In those times woman were seen as weaker, I don't believe so don't call me a sexist. Explain to me how he is hypocritical

[ProneToGlory]

Hold on I'm contradicting myself here. Just because he is pious, doesn't me he can't love sex. Only chanters are celibate that I know of.

[Morwen Eledhwen]

There are options between celibacy and promiscuity. If he's a devout Chantry-goer and very pious, one would expect him to like sex but expect it to have meaning, and to be both selective and monogamous about whom he experiences it with. Alistair is very much like that --it's why he's so much more difficult to sleep with than Zevran.

Modifié par Morwen Eledhwen, 20 juillet 2011 - 11:48 .

[ProneToGlory]

I guess then it would make more sense that hes not a womanizer and that maybe after being in shock from all that happened he slept with morrigan trying to ease his pain, what happened to his family that is, and he loves leliana

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

ProneToGlory wrote...

Oh ****, the whole celibacy thing. Okay so this is my first time RPing a character, so for future reference is it just the Templars who are sworn to celibacy? But there are plenty of christian people who have sex with multiple partners.

Careful of talking about specific religions, since the moderators frown on that.

Suffice to say, a religion saying you shouldn't do something doesn't mean you won't find followers of that religion who fall short. That's no excuse, but it's true. They may seem devout where other teachings are concerned, but it would still be a failing in the eyes of their faith--especially if knew it was a sin in their religion but they kept doing it.

If all templars are sworn to celibacy they do a bad job. In DA2 a good number of them visit a local brothel, and there are cases of mage-rape. Templars can also marry, with the permission of the Chantry, but we don't know what exactly the Chant says about sexual activity or faithfulness to a single partner. If it's anything like Christianity, being as devout as possible to the Andrastian religion would mean no sex outside of wedlock, and then only with your spouse.

If your character fell for Morrigan in a moment of weakness, well, that happens. Pray to the Maker for forgiveness. But do it again, like with Leliana, when he knows it's a sin, and...well...you can't just keep saying 'The Maker will forgive me' as an excuse to keep sinning, no matter what Zevran says.

If you wanted to roleplay around that and say that your character, who loves Leliana, intends to stay with her and be faithful, maybe that would work for the devout thing.

[maxernst]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

ProneToGlory wrote...

Oh ****, the whole celibacy thing. Okay so this is my first time RPing a character, so for future reference is it just the Templars who are sworn to celibacy? But there are plenty of christian people who have sex with multiple partners.

Careful of talking about specific religions, since the moderators frown on that.

Suffice to say, a religion saying you shouldn't do something doesn't mean you won't find followers of that religion who fall short. That's no excuse, but it's true. They may seem devout where other teachings are concerned, but it would still be a failing in the eyes of their faith--especially if knew it was a sin in their religion but they kept doing it.

If all templars are sworn to celibacy they do a bad job. In DA2 a good number of them visit a local brothel, and there are cases of mage-rape. Templars can also marry, with the permission of the Chantry, but we don't know what exactly the Chant says about sexual activity or faithfulness to a single partner. If it's anything like Christianity, being as devout as possible to the Andrastian religion would mean no sex outside of wedlock, and then only with your spouse.

If your character fell for Morrigan in a moment of weakness, well, that happens. Pray to the Maker for forgiveness. But do it again, like with Leliana, when he knows it's a sin, and...well...you can't just keep saying 'The Maker will forgive me' as an excuse to keep sinning, no matter what Zevran says.

If you wanted to roleplay around that and say that your character, who loves Leliana, intends to stay with her and be faithful, maybe that would work for the devout thing.

In any event, you haven't actually taken vows as a Templar, so their conduct is irrelevant.  However, as SOLD says, the Chantry certainly does not encourage casual womanizing.  I think unhardened Alistair's attitudes give us a fair clue to what the chantry teaches. 

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

ProneToGlory wrote...

My PC is very Pious. He is a Templar, self trained that is, so I don't see what is wrong with him being a womanizer. In those times woman were seen as weaker, I don't believe so don't call me a sexist. Explain to me how he is hypocritical

While in medieval Europe this was so, it is not necessarily true in Thedas. In fact, it is quite the opposite. The Andrastian religion, though similar in structure to Christianity, is run and led by women, and revolves around the supposed teachings of a woman (Andraste herself was married and had many children, so she wasn't celibate or virginal, either. On top of being a woman warrior and general.). Thus, a devout Andrastian would likely have respect for women, since the priests and leader of his religous faith are all women who are held in the highest regard by their societies. (In fact, opposite of the medieval Christian Church, only women can lead the priesthood and the religion as a whole, and thus, have an enormous amount of power in Thedas)  If a devout Andrastian was a womanizer, it would likely be because he perhaps reveres women a little too much with the wrong parts of his body and can't really help himself: pretty and willing girls are his mortal weakness.

And no, I wasn't saying you were hypocritical or sexist, I was trying to explain how your character's particular views, in context of the Dragon Age universe, are a bit contradictory. There are certainly men in the DA universe who are womanizers because they think women are little more than sex objects to be used for gratification and then discarded. Vaughn in the City Elf Origin is a classic example. But Vaughn is not a devout Andrastian by any stretch of the imagination. The fact he didn't care about what the reverend mother thought when she admonished him for interrupting the wedding pretty much proves this. In fact, Vaughn held her in contempt, as he thinks the city elves, being animals, shouldn't really have weddings and marriages taken seriously. He is a lowlife scumbag, but he is definitely not an Andraste. And given his treatment of elven women, it is unlikely he is much better to human women, though socially and legally, he has to be more careful with human women, since more people would care and he'd probably get into alot of trouble if he tried that with a human wedding.

Anyway, your character can be a devout Andrastian and still be sexually active. Andrastism does not seem to object to sex before marriage, since it's tolerant of homosexuality and does not seem to place a high importance of virginity. While monomgamous marital relations seem to be prefered, other sorts of sexual relationships seem to be allowed or tolerated. The Chantry, when compared to the medieval church, is actually pretty damned liberal.

If your character is devout, but still likes sleeping around, it would be more a case that he's a bit of a sexaholic, more than he looks down on women.

[Addai]

ProneToGlory wrote...

My PC is very Pious. He is a Templar, self trained that is, so I don't see what is wrong with him being a womanizer. In those times woman were seen as weaker, I don't believe so don't call me a sexist. Explain to me how he is hypocritical

Alistair makes a comment that the Chantry taught him to court women in a gentlemanly way.

Aside from that, I think you're getting your impressions of pious medievals from the crappier sorts of movies. lol  Devout people were expected to be self-controlled and to practice chastity and faithfulness to spouses, both men and women.

Modifié par Addai67, 22 juillet 2011 - 12:27 .

[ProneToGlory]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

ProneToGlory wrote...

My PC is very Pious. He is a Templar, self trained that is, so I don't see what is wrong with him being a womanizer. In those times woman were seen as weaker, I don't believe so don't call me a sexist. Explain to me how he is hypocritical

While in medieval Europe this was so, it is not necessarily true in Thedas. In fact, it is quite the opposite. The Andrastian religion, though similar in structure to Christianity, is run and led by women, and revolves around the supposed teachings of a woman (Andraste herself was married and had many children, so she wasn't celibate or virginal, either. On top of being a woman warrior and general.). Thus, a devout Andrastian would likely have respect for women, since the priests and leader of his religous faith are all women who are held in the highest regard by their societies. (In fact, opposite of the medieval Christian Church, only women can lead the priesthood and the religion as a whole, and thus, have an enormous amount of power in Thedas)  If a devout Andrastian was a womanizer, it would likely be because he perhaps reveres women a little too much with the wrong parts of his body and can't really help himself: pretty and willing girls are his mortal weakness.

And no, I wasn't saying you were hypocritical or sexist, I was trying to explain how your character's particular views, in context of the Dragon Age universe, are a bit contradictory. There are certainly men in the DA universe who are womanizers because they think women are little more than sex objects to be used for gratification and then discarded. Vaughn in the City Elf Origin is a classic example. But Vaughn is not a devout Andrastian by any stretch of the imagination. The fact he didn't care about what the reverend mother thought when she admonished him for interrupting the wedding pretty much proves this. In fact, Vaughn held her in contempt, as he thinks the city elves, being animals, shouldn't really have weddings and marriages taken seriously. He is a lowlife scumbag, but he is definitely not an Andraste. And given his treatment of elven women, it is unlikely he is much better to human women, though socially and legally, he has to be more careful with human women, since more people would care and he'd probably get into alot of trouble if he tried that with a human wedding.

Anyway, your character can be a devout Andrastian and still be sexually active. Andrastism does not seem to object to sex before marriage, since it's tolerant of homosexuality and does not seem to place a high importance of virginity. While monomgamous marital relations seem to be prefered, other sorts of sexual relationships seem to be allowed or tolerated. The Chantry, when compared to the medieval church, is actually pretty damned liberal.

If your character is devout, but still likes sleeping around, it would be more a case that he's a bit of a sexaholic, more than he looks down on women.

Exactly, thank you