375 réponses à ce sujet

[Piotrburz]

That's the problem of modern days. Make it easy for newcomers. Nobody remembers board games like warhammer or game of thrones, where you need to study the rules. I find most interesting when playing new game, revealing all of it's universe. When i don't know something i try to find it in internet, or manual. Nowadays everyone want it easy. Drop da DVD, start the game, and press action keys to rewind their interaction movie.

Modifié par Piotrburz, 19 juillet 2011 - 06:55 .

[T764]

Maybe Vega is for those people (ie. me) who have been playing since day one and don't like Liara or Ashley or Kaiden, or maybe for those that want a varied squad without the "old guard" being at it's core.

[Kakistos_]

Piotrburz wrote...

That's the problem of modern days. Make it easy for newcomers. Nobody remembers board games like warhammer or game of thrones, where you need to study the rules. I find most interesting when playing new game, revealing all of it's universe. When i don't know something i try to find it in internet, or manual. Nowadays everyone want it easy. Drop da DVD, start the game, and press action keys to rewind their interaction movie.

I agree. It is a disturbing trend in gaming these days: Catering to lazy noobonic idiots. Harsh but none the less true.

[CmndrFisher]

I agree that new players should be encouraged to play ME1 and 2 first in order to truly enjoy the experience, but the "I was a punk before you were a punk" mentallity does not bode well.  I really don't think it is Bioware's intention to snub the current Mass Effect fan base in an effort to attract new "converts".  After all, aren't these forums a testament to our loyalty?  Regardless, no matter how positively ME3 is viewed by new fans (or negatively), the Mass Effect universe will be my universe and I suspect for many others as well.

[Bnol]

Kakistos_ wrote...

Piotrburz wrote...

That's the problem of modern days. Make it easy for newcomers. Nobody remembers board games like warhammer or game of thrones, where you need to study the rules. I find most interesting when playing new game, revealing all of it's universe. When i don't know something i try to find it in internet, or manual. Nowadays everyone want it easy. Drop da DVD, start the game, and press action keys to rewind their interaction movie.

I agree. It is a disturbing trend in gaming these days: Catering to lazy noobonic idiots. Harsh but none the less true.

While I do have nostalgia for reading the NES manuals on the way home from the store or when we would open our presents at my grandparents and I couldn't play right then, I don't see how a well done and integrated tutorial hurts gameplay or is a terrible trend in gaming.    Those tutorials don't necessarily mean that the entire game has to be simple or easy. 

Similarly, not sure how introducing a character like Vega hurts the gameplay of veteran players, I mean ME2 was released in Jan 2010 and won't be released until March 2012, so we are talking about an over 2 year gap for players who aren't new.  That is plenty of time to need/want a bit of a refresher on where we stand.  Not all gamers play the DLC or played ME2 multiple times.  Hell, Vega could be the best character ever, we won't know until we play the game.

[Quole]

Guns wrote...

 If people want to get into the series and know whats going on they should play the first two games. You shouldn't waste time and resources on an intro for new players or a character like James Vega. You don't go to a movie sequel and expect to understand it without seeing the first one. Video games should be no different especially ones focused and driven on story. 

Ur sig is awesome

[FoxHound109]

Ace of Dawn wrote...

Bioware. Listen to the OP. He is clearly apart of the core group you designed the game for...

Thank you! This hilarious sarcastic posts sums it all up.

Whenver people start throwing around the "CATER ONLY TO YOUR CORE FANS" argument in this thread I just think: and I'm not a core fan because...?

I've been playing Mass Effect since it first released on the 360. In fact, Mass Effect was the one game I walked out with from the store when I got my 360. Why does only the OP's opinion count as the opinion "of the core group?" What about the rest of core gamers who think the idea of inclusion is great because it means more money for Bioware to thrive and create better games with in the future?

This reminds of the old Bioware fans nerdraging that Knights of the Old Republic was going to the Xbox when "the core group" wanted Bioware to focus purely on the PC market. Knights of the Old Republic was a massive success on the original Xbox console and if it wasn't for that, Bioware would have never broken into the console market and made more millions than before. The inclusion of KotOR on various platforms despite the eliticism and undeserved self-entitlement of Bioware fans at the time is the reason why we even have Mass Effect and Dragon Age and whatever else Bioware comes up with as their budgets grow.

Unless some of you are actually planning to fund Bioware's projects in the future entirely out of pocket and pay the millions necessary to develop their games, I don't see how you're in any position to ask Bioware not to expand its fanbase. Guess what! Designers, artists, writers, testers, etc. all have bills to pay and food to put on the table. It's like when people complain that "artists sell out" and forget that there are immense teams behind these artists trying to live good lives and that we don't live in some magical, make believe land where Richard Simmons rides around on rainbow-farting unicorns while tossing at these artists/developers an enless supply of money.

Hell, I've been a Bioware fance since Neverwinter Nights. By the logic of "I was here first" my demands should superceed that of anyone who started being a fan of Bioware after me. 

Painfully illogical.

[FoxHound109]

Piotrburz wrote...

That's the problem of modern days. Make it easy for newcomers. Nobody remembers board games like warhammer or game of thrones, where you need to study the rules. I find most interesting when playing new game, revealing all of it's universe. When i don't know something i try to find it in internet, or manual. Nowadays everyone want it easy. Drop da DVD, start the game, and press action keys to rewind their interaction movie.

I also remember when we couldn't download video games directly to our consoles or PCs, and when lag was the norm for online gaming on 56k, how some games didn't even have a safe feature instead requiring you to bypass the game's programming by manually entering a code, and a time when you had to use your imagination to think that four pixels were equivalent to a battle tank, etc. Inconvenience doesn't make a video game "more hardcore." Developers are getting smarter with their games and their design philosophies.

[1upD]

Mass Effect is unique in how well it carries continuity over from one game to the next. Every decision you make has consequences somewhere down the line.  It feels like it is one story carried through three games.  That's what makes it special. Why then, should Mass Effect 3 be 'a good entry point'? Is that supposed to be good marketing? 'This isn't the finale you wanted, it's another original!'  The only way Bioware could truly cater to the newcomers is by encouraging them to by the first two games with sales and promotionals.

The comics, however, are an exception.  PS3 owners couldn't play the first game because of Microsoft, so they needed a way to play the first one and make all of its decisions without playing it.  I'm glad Mass Effect 3 will also have a comic like that, so that I can make new characters specifically for ME3 more easily and so that if some poor sap does buy the game without knowing about the save transfer he won't be screwed by the consequences of default Shep's choices.

Modifié par 1upD, 19 juillet 2011 - 09:05 .

[blind black]

herp derp bioware just wants cod dollars HERP DERP

[essarr71]

FoxHound109 wrote...

This reminds of the old Bioware fans nerdraging that Knights of the Old Republic was going to the Xbox when "the core group" wanted Bioware to focus purely on the PC market. Knights of the Old Republic was a massive success on the original Xbox console and if it wasn't for that, Bioware would have never broken into the console market and made more millions than before. The inclusion of KotOR on various platforms despite the eliticism and undeserved self-entitlement of Bioware fans at the time is the reason why we even have Mass Effect and Dragon Age and whatever else Bioware comes up with as their budgets grow.

+1

I literally only bought an Xbox to play KotoR and Ive pretty much purchased every title bioware has released since then. 

[MonkeyLungs]

1upD wrote...

Mass Effect is unique in how well it carries continuity over from one game to the next. Every decision you make has consequences somewhere down the line.  It feels like it is one story carried through three games.  That's what makes it special. Why then, should Mass Effect 3 be 'a good entry point'? Is that supposed to be good marketing? 'This isn't the finale you wanted, it's another original!'  The only way Bioware could truly cater to the newcomers is by encouraging them to by the first two games with sales and promotionals.

The comics, however, are an exception.  PS3 owners couldn't play the first game because of Microsoft, so they needed a way to play the first one and make all of its decisions without playing it.  I'm glad Mass Effect 3 will also have a comic like that, so that I can make new characters specifically for ME3 more easily and so that if some poor sap does buy the game without knowing about the save transfer he won't be screwed by the consequences of default Shep's choices.

One of the best posts I've read in awhile. I am immortalizing a part of your post in my new sig whether you like or not.

[Para Pett]

Really OP?! You are moaning about a character that you get to use, have him talk about previous events that your Shepard has done and at the same time fill new players in on what has happened? Jesus, people will moan about anything.
I for one, like it, I love hearing how amazing my Shepard is and if I forgot I've done something and it pops up, it'll be like 'oh yeah I remember that bit now' Seeing as I'm running on my 6th Shepard, I kinda forget what I've done with who and this one going to be a total screw up, as I'm only going to have two survivors.
So, please stop bashing on the potential new players, which will bring in more money for Bioware, There are NO core fans, there are just fans, and no one's opinion is better then another's.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

There's nothing wrong with catering to newcomers... as long as it doesn't compromise content for continuing players.

[FoxHound109]

1upD wrote...

The only way Bioware could truly cater to the newcomers is by encouraging them to by the first two games with sales and promotionals.

That's silly. That's like saying that that is the ONLY way to encourage players to play the first few games. I played Shenmue II on the Xbox before I played the original, and I loved it so much that I went out and got a used Dreamcast and bought Shenmue to enjoy the full experience. There's no reason that allowing Mass Effect 3 to be inclusive of new games can't encourage the exact same effect.

Furthermore, the point is simple: adding an entry point for newcomers doesn't actually harm the old gamers. Don't wanna' listen to Vega? Leave him on the ship. It's optional.

But let me point out two other things:

1. Resources: people complain about the waste of resources on the new character. Guess what! Those "wasted resources" are being put to use to attract more gamers, more money, and more financial success so that Bioware can afford to have even MORE resources in the future. It's an investment and one that doesn't really harm the core gamers.

2. You forget the Vega might serve as a good source of information to the narrative, even for veteran players. For example, I played the games and I love them but I don't know everything there is to know about them. I don't spend hours on the Mass Effect wiki going through articles and Vega could still provide information that I, as a long time fan of Mass Effect, didn't know. Hell, he could even provide information for content outside of the games themselves, like information on the novels which not everyone has read, etc.

[Seboist]

Bioware should release a cheap double pack of ME1/2 on the PC and Xbox to promote ME3.

[Piotrburz]

FoxHound109.
Millions of dollars or a developing team consisting thousand people aren't anything necessary to make a good game. STALKER games are made by bunch of people. Maybe they are not as epic as Mass Effect, but they are good/very good games.
You know what consumes most of money, it's the whole marketing thing.

[Valo_Soren]

Guns wrote...

 If people want to get into the series and know whats going on they should play the first two games. You shouldn't waste time and resources on an intro for new players or a character like James Vega. You don't go to a movie sequel and expect to understand it without seeing the first one. Video games should be no different especially ones focused and driven on story. 

I would like to put this up for the 'Most Idiotic Suggestion of the Decade' award. I know its only 2011 but I don't see anyone saying anything remotely as stupid as this in the next nine years.

[FoxHound109]

Piotrburz wrote...

FoxHound109.
Millions of dollars or a developing team consisting thousand people aren't anything necessary to make a good game. STALKER games are made by bunch of people. Maybe they are not as epic as Mass Effect, but they are good/very good games.
You know what consumes most of money, it's the whole marketing thing.

I'm not saying that it's a requirement of quality. Costume Quest is a low-budget game that is amazing. Believe me, I don't disagree. But Bioware is doing something different: strip Mass Effect of its immense budget and tell me it would still be the same series.

[Valo_Soren]

KaidanWilliamsShepard wrote...

Valo_Soren wrote...

Guns wrote...

 If people want to get into the series and know whats going on they should play the first two games. You shouldn't waste time and resources on an intro for new players or a character like James Vega. You don't go to a movie sequel and expect to understand it without seeing the first one. Video games should be no different especially ones focused and driven on story. 

I would like to put this up for the 'Most Idiotic Suggestion of the Decade' award. I know its only 2011 but I don't see anyone saying anything remotely as stupid as this in the next nine years.

Well isnt that the most mature post ever.:-)

Well of course it isn't but everyone else has already given their serious reply's.

[Chris Priestly]

Answer: No, sorry.

We will work to cater to ALL Mass Effect fans. Those who have been here since before the first game was released and those who pick up Mass Effect 3 as their first entry into the series.

[Faust1979]

any video game franchise needs to be able to bring new comers so they can play as well it's how you keep the money coming in.