256 réponses à ce sujet

[Taura-Tierno]

By the time I reached act 3, I had a lot of trouble supporting the mages, even though I'd played a pro-mage Hawke, for the reasons the OP stated. If almost every mage turns into an abomination when he or she ends up in a troublesome situation, that proves Meredith's point. The Templars were right, at least regarding the mages of Kirkwall (who are at a greater risk than other mages).

[CrimsonZephyr]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

By the time I reached act 3, I had a lot of trouble supporting the mages, even though I'd played a pro-mage Hawke, for the reasons the OP stated. If almost every mage turns into an abomination when he or she ends up in a troublesome situation, that proves Meredith's point. The Templars were right, at least regarding the mages of Kirkwall (who are at a greater risk than other mages).

But she wasn't killing them for unleashing the blood magic. She was killing them as retribution for Anders crimes. The fact that they did end up in a troublesome situation was entirely her fault. I mean, given no options and facing certain death, no mage had anything to lose. Meredith never saw any value in not antagonizing every mage every step of the way.

[EmperorSahlertz]

She used the oppertunity Anders' bombing presented, to annul the Circle, she had wanted to annul for a while, prior to the bombing.

[GavrielKay]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

She used the oppertunity Anders' bombing presented, to annul the Circle, she had wanted to annul for a while, prior to the bombing.

Exactly.  I think she annulled the circle in retribution for her sister's crimes, which she was unable to prevent as a child.  Anders gave her the opening she'd been waiting for, nothing more.

[EmperorSahlertz]

I didn't s... What?
She annulled the Circle for a reason much more simple than that. She had lost control over the Circle. Her previous experiences with mages, during her childhood, explains her dislike of mages, not the annulment as such.

[GavrielKay]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I didn't s... What?
She annulled the Circle for a reason much more simple than that. She had lost control over the Circle. Her previous experiences with mages, during her childhood, explains her dislike of mages, not the annulment as such.

The whole thing goes back to her sister.  She "lost control" because her idea of control was insane. 

Anyway, the bit where we agreed was that Anders wasn't the reason, she already wanted to do it before he blew up the Chantry. 

[RampantAndroid]

Rifneno wrote...
Indeed. If logic was given rights under the Geneva Conventions, Act III would've been a war crime. There's plenty of other examples too of course. "The Keeper's dead!" "Yes, I'm sorry but she became an abomination--" "GRAG DALISH SMASH!" "What the hell? I've helped you all time and again, now you're--" "DALISH HATE ALL SHEM!" "Arianni? I saved your son's life! Twice!" "Yes, but you must understand that DALISH MURDER SHEM!"

We get to meet Leliana, who is alive even if she died in DAO with no explanation, and suddenly she hates mages, even if the Warden mage is still "close to her heart." But I guess that's explained by the hints that she was just a spy and her time with the Warden was a total act, thus destroying one of the most popular characters in DAO. Oh, and she's there about all the mage trouble but Hawke can't think to say "the mages are pissy because your Knight-Commander is brutal tyrant whose only copy of both Chantry and Municipal law is next to her chamberpot."

Of course, I suppose the templar side has its own idiocy, albeit earlier. Like Merrill. "You're a blood mage!" "Yeah but it's okay, I know how to control the demons. Except when I don't." "I'm taking you to the templars!" "I'd prefer you just take me to the alienage and trust me not to accidentally rip open a portal into a screaming nightmare realm from which there is no escape." "Okay, I'll do that instead I guess." ... Ditto for Anders after he kills or nearly kills Ella.

I'll agree here, and again point to the Zero punctuation review: you cannot go five minutes in game without someone being racist about someone. It was tiring in DAO. It's downright annoying in DA2.

As for Leliana and the Chantry, I hope there's an exalted march in DA3 so the PC can absolutely massacre everyone in the bloody chantry, and a fair number of mages too. There's no one group in DA2 that is likeable. The stupid chantry cannot regulate it's own people - Elthina saw there were problems and did nothing. Hell, the entire chantry strikes me as being laughable.

Oh, and while we're at it, wh y can't you, Hawke, go stand in front of the Chantry and make a little announcement about Ser Alrik's passtime of raping tranquil mages? And when you go to Elthina with evidence she doesn't give a damn...

Modifié par RampantAndroid, 27 juillet 2011 - 12:06 .

[Vhardamis]

Esbatty wrote...

I get a feeling Kirkwall is like a magical/spiritual Chernobyl that no one bothered to move away from. Thus the whole higher concentration of blood magery and general mental unhingery in the population.

This is pretty accurate actually. If you collected the codex around the game one of them states (I'll have to find it in my book and edit this) that Kirkwall was on of the places they used by the Tevinter in the mass blood sacrifices to enter the Golden city.

Couple that with the basics we already know about magic and its one big old mage bomb going off. You've got old festering Spells on the lowest level of the citiy (under Dark town if i recall correctly) that probably were never really sealed down and  tons and tons of spilled blood (death weakens the veil).

Its no wonder all the mages are going bat sh*t crazy. I'm seriously suprised a nova sized veil tear hasn't opened up in the Gallows and started sucking everything through.

But having said that,  I agree with the OP. Even using that as an excuse for their overall behavoir and Anders change,  i'd have liked to see more sane mages.

[nitefyre410]

RampantAndroid wrote...
*snip*

Oh, and while we're at it, wh y can't you, Hawke, go stand in front of the Chantry and make a little announcement about Ser Alrik's passtime of raping tranquil mages? And when you go to Elthina with evidence she doesn't give a damn...

As awesome as that would be - the people are either A. to scared. B. Too Stupid.  C. a combination of both to really do anything or care. Matter fact Im willing to wager that most would roll there eyes and go about their buisness. This is Kirkwall and den of thieves, mecenaries, corrupot politicans and  shady  merechants - all of that is only one Tuesday.   

As for Elthina I can not make mind on  if she is just that inept and doing nothing or she if pulling a Zen  move  sitting still  having seen the writing on the wall(There is a difference which I will not go in the thread it derail  the whole  thread). I'm playing through the game again so I'll get a chance to hear  dialouge again make up mind.,  

But you are right  Kirkwall was a  podwer  keg on a naplam tank waiting to go off.  Something about the sewers being lined with  channels for Tevinter  rituals and  statues of  torment  and suffering  in the Gallows.   From day one that place felt...off.

 

[Shadow Fox]

Rifneno wrote...

Morroian wrote...

The fact that she was in lothering for 3 years IIRC would imply that it wasn't an act in DAO. She became a Seeker afterward when Dorothea became the Divine.

How do we know she was there for 3 years? Not that it would matter, they've retconned a lot bigger things than that. You can hand Anders over for execution, kill Justice at the bottom of the Dragonbone Wastelands, and they both survive, become BFF's in the Wardens, and merge anyway.

I think the fact she had Seeker equipment in DAO and her view on mages is totally different ("We can't do this! Some must live!" at a tower full of abominations, "You want freedom? There's freedom in death!" to mages pissy about being beaten and raped in Kirkwall) is a little too much for me to swallow. Besides, they seem to love ruining popular characters by rewriting their personalities to make them detestable. Again, look at Janders.

And how do we know she wasn't just acting in Kirkwall so she could spy on the Chantry there*which she was charged to do* without getting trouble from Meredith?*considering she practically threw Alistar out when he showed up just because he sympathized with  mages and he's the freaking king! I don't see it as far fetched.*

[Ryzaki]

Thanks to Legacy the "Carver would've turned Hawke in!" nonsense is proven to be nonsense.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Ryzaki wrote...

Thanks to Legacy the "Carver would've turned Hawke in!" nonsense is proven to be nonsense.

It's pretty obvious from the start that he won't. Read his letter. Does that sound like a hardcore Templar to you? Kid was looking for a purpose. He wasn't a mage-hater.

[Ryzaki]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Thanks to Legacy the "Carver would've turned Hawke in!" nonsense is proven to be nonsense.

It's pretty obvious from the start that he won't. Read his letter. Does that sound like a hardcore Templar to you? Kid was looking for a purpose. He wasn't a mage-hater.

I know that but some people in this thread don't. 

[Plaintiff]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Thanks to Legacy the "Carver would've turned Hawke in!" nonsense is proven to be nonsense.

It's pretty obvious from the start that he won't. Read his letter. Does that sound like a hardcore Templar to you? Kid was looking for a purpose. He wasn't a mage-hater.

The fact that he stops just short of wanting to see his sibling tranquiled or dead doesn't speak especially highly of him. Carver could've found purpose in any number of ways, he could've left Kirkwall if it came to that. His opportunities for getting out  from under Hawke's shadow are many and varied. He deliberately chose the one that would hurt his family the most.

[CrimsonZephyr]

Plaintiff wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Thanks to Legacy the "Carver would've turned Hawke in!" nonsense is proven to be nonsense.

It's pretty obvious from the start that he won't. Read his letter. Does that sound like a hardcore Templar to you? Kid was looking for a purpose. He wasn't a mage-hater.

The fact that he stops just short of wanting to see his sibling tranquiled or dead doesn't speak especially highly of him. Carver could've found purpose in any number of ways, he could've left Kirkwall if it came to that. His opportunities for getting out  from under Hawke's shadow are many and varied. He deliberately chose the one that would hurt his family the most.

Not a lot of opportunities for a swordsman in a city like Kirkwall. He could become a guardsman, but thanks to Aveline rejecting his application, that was a no-go. He could be a mercenary, but they are just as disreputable as the worst of the Templars. He could be a Grey Warden, but the Wardens are reclusive and only seem to pop up after you get the taint. So, unless he was satisfied with being Hawke's sidekick, there wasn't much else. He's not a nice guy, but Alrik and Karras he is not.

[Rifneno]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

And how do we know she wasn't just acting in Kirkwall so she could spy on the Chantry there*which she was charged to do* without getting trouble from Meredith?*considering she practically threw Alistar out when he showed up just because he sympathized with  mages and he's the freaking king! I don't see it as far fetched.*

Are you hypothesizing that she was just harsh about the mages because she didn't want to anger Meredith, which would hinder an investigation of her, or that she's just playing the Chantry as a whole (as in the main Orlesian branch as well)?

Either way I doubt it. Cassandra seemed surprised at the end of Varric's story, "So it was Meredith's fault." (Well, and why, depending on whether Hawke assisted or resisted the annulment) Leliana would've told her Meredith was likely the problem if she spent half a second in the Gallows, but instead Cassandra thinks Hawke "was an apostate who came to Kirkwall to spread subversion against the Chantry." Besides, she'd have to have been pummeled with the idiot ball for days on end to think that Hawke was working for Meredith if the pro-mage options (or really anything except "JIHAD! FOR THE MAKER!" options in the aggressive slot). And if you mean perhaps she was playing the Chantry as a whole... she's the Divine's left hand. Her being a traitor to the Chantry would be like James Bond working for the Russians. If you remember the Leliana's Song DLC from DAO, Revered Mother Dorothea who saved her from the dungeons is now the Divine. Hence how she got her position in the Seekers (or at least, we all presume).

[Taura-Tierno]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Taura-Tierno wrote...

By the time I reached act 3, I had a lot of trouble supporting the mages, even though I'd played a pro-mage Hawke, for the reasons the OP stated. If almost every mage turns into an abomination when he or she ends up in a troublesome situation, that proves Meredith's point. The Templars were right, at least regarding the mages of Kirkwall (who are at a greater risk than other mages).

But she wasn't killing them for unleashing the blood magic. She was killing them as retribution for Anders crimes. The fact that they did end up in a troublesome situation was entirely her fault. I mean, given no options and facing certain death, no mage had anything to lose. Meredith never saw any value in not antagonizing every mage every step of the way.

But it wasn't just every mage in act 3 - it was all those mages before act 3 as well. 

And it doesn't matter if it was their last choice ... if abominations are that dangerous, a mage turning into one is catastrophic, and it shouldn't happen. Turning to blood magic and possession in a life-and-death situation is not okay, simply because the abomination can wreck so much uncontrolled havoc afterwards. 

I certainly don't think Meredith did everything right, but from what we see in the game, I can hardly blame her for her opinions. 

[Rifneno]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Taura-Tierno wrote...

By the time I reached act 3, I had a lot of trouble supporting the mages, even though I'd played a pro-mage Hawke, for the reasons the OP stated. If almost every mage turns into an abomination when he or she ends up in a troublesome situation, that proves Meredith's point. The Templars were right, at least regarding the mages of Kirkwall (who are at a greater risk than other mages).

But she wasn't killing them for unleashing the blood magic. She was killing them as retribution for Anders crimes. The fact that they did end up in a troublesome situation was entirely her fault. I mean, given no options and facing certain death, no mage had anything to lose. Meredith never saw any value in not antagonizing every mage every step of the way.

But it wasn't just every mage in act 3 - it was all those mages before act 3 as well. 

And it doesn't matter if it was their last choice ... if abominations are that dangerous, a mage turning into one is catastrophic, and it shouldn't happen. Turning to blood magic and possession in a life-and-death situation is not okay, simply because the abomination can wreck so much uncontrolled havoc afterwards. 

I certainly don't think Meredith did everything right, but from what we see in the game, I can hardly blame her for her opinions. 

Cause versus Effect!  For the Heavyweight Championship of the World!  Only on PAY PER VIEW!

[CrimsonZephyr]

Taura-Tierno wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Taura-Tierno wrote...

By the time I reached act 3, I had a lot of trouble supporting the mages, even though I'd played a pro-mage Hawke, for the reasons the OP stated. If almost every mage turns into an abomination when he or she ends up in a troublesome situation, that proves Meredith's point. The Templars were right, at least regarding the mages of Kirkwall (who are at a greater risk than other mages).

But she wasn't killing them for unleashing the blood magic. She was killing them as retribution for Anders crimes. The fact that they did end up in a troublesome situation was entirely her fault. I mean, given no options and facing certain death, no mage had anything to lose. Meredith never saw any value in not antagonizing every mage every step of the way.

But it wasn't just every mage in act 3 - it was all those mages before act 3 as well. 

And it doesn't matter if it was their last choice ... if abominations are that dangerous, a mage turning into one is catastrophic, and it shouldn't happen. Turning to blood magic and possession in a life-and-death situation is not okay, simply because the abomination can wreck so much uncontrolled havoc afterwards. 

I certainly don't think Meredith did everything right, but from what we see in the game, I can hardly blame her for her opinions. 

Yes, when sentebced to death under false pretenses, mages should just take that beating like champs. How dare they bite back after being cudgeled for something they did not do!

[nitefyre410]

Rifneno wrote...
Indeed. If logic was given rights under the Geneva Conventions, Act III would've been a war crime. There's plenty of other examples too of course. "The Keeper's dead!" "Yes, I'm sorry but she became an abomination--" "GRAG DALISH SMASH!" "What the hell? I've helped you all time and again, now you're--" "DALISH HATE ALL SHEM!" "Arianni? I saved your son's life! Twice!" "Yes, but you must understand that DALISH MURDER SHEM!"

Oh by that point in the game I was so tired of everyone extremist hardline  don't understand the meaning of the  term middle ground  stances.  That I murdered clan, grabbed Isabella and Verric and went for a drink in the Hanged Man.   I was feed up  with  both  Circle and Templars that if they  so much as twitched the wrong way  My  Hawke was going  murder them both. Really the only saving grace was that Bethany was in the Circle  and first Enchanter really seemed like a reasonable fellow who just trying to protect his people.  

We get to meet Leliana, who is alive even if she died in DAO with no explanation, and suddenly she hates mages, even if the Warden mage is still "close to her heart." But I guess that's explained by the hints that she was just a spy and her time with the Warden was a total act, thus destroying one of the most popular characters in DAO. Oh, and she's there about all the mage trouble but Hawke can't think to say "the mages are pissy because your Knight-Commander is brutal tyrant whose only copy of both Chantry and Municipal law is next to her chamberpot."

Oh if Bioware pulls that  kind of  move ... That is would be weak, just plan weak and out right stupid  and one of the worst character moves in the history of fiction.  Considering if  I remember correctly that Chantry really can't touch the Wardens.  So if the  Wardens want a mage they get that mage and the Chantry just has to shup up and be good about it.- my memory  on this is hazy. Second Leliana never came off as the Zealot type.    Honestly  I'm okay with a Double Agent type plot thread  where the Wardens now something is VERY wrong in the Chantry and Templars   we needed  to send someone in to find out.  Honestly I can't really see any of  Wardens stabbing the  Warden back like that unless  your relationship with was not really good at but if it  was that makes mescratch my head.  Then again loyalities do change.

Modifié par nitefyre410, 27 juillet 2011 - 06:10 .

[Gervaise]

Have been absent a few days whilst replaying as a warrior.  Paid a lot of attention to codexes and making sure I picked up letters, talked to people, etc.  Have not yet reached the end but since I know what is coming and have reached Act 3, thought I would just confirm my original view.  Based on:
Act 1: Even Anders admits he thinks Meredith is sincere.  He also is vehemently anti-blood mage.  I expected Fenris to lay into Merrill but Anders is if anything worse.  His conversations with her seem to confirm that even though you can take blood mage specialty without contacting a demon, actually it does involve contact with a demon in some way or another.  When two people with such extremely differing view on mages as Anders and Fenris, both condemn blood magic, as does the Dalish Keeper and her clan, I assume you should not use it.  Demons are also bad news, so on that basis I also regard blood magic as bad news.  The veil is thin in Kirkwall because of all the death and activities of magisters in the past.  So even ordinary people are more at risk of possession.  However, that still doesn't explain that virtually every mage that is put under pressure, either turns to blood magic, becomes an abomination or both. Presumably people do not leave Kirkwall because they cannot afford to but it does seem to be demon alley and not a good place to stay.   Meredith may be hard line but she is struggling to keep control in a very difficult situation.  My guy was pro mage freedom until he ran into that girl in the brothel who used mind control to try and get him to cut his throat.  I had him screaming out to his sister to help him.  That experience and the subsequent encounter with Ty..., blood mage, shook him to the core and made him question his original beliefs.
Act 2: Many mages he helped in Act 1 have been recaptured.  However, it is evident they have neither been executed or tranquilised.  In fact, oddly enough considering they are meant to be in quarantine, they are out on the streets.  The girl who hypnotised him and he turned over to the Templars has also not been executed or tranquilised but is being held in prison, although able to contact him by letter, presumably quite legally.   So does his sister.  His mother and uncle are also able to visit her.  Strangly enough, a lot of mages seem to know who their relatives are and can keep in contact with them. This seems to run counter to Anders assertion that they are being held in prison and being tranquilised for even trivial crimes.  It still seems that mages have a strange tendency to spontaneously combust into abominations or summon up demons, skeletons and shades whenever put under pressure.   Orsino supplied the books to Quentin that enabled him to complete his research.  Why was the First enchanter giving highly questionable material to a person outside the Circle?  Even if he didn't know he was involved with the disappearances of women, he later admits (in Act 3) he thought the documents were too dangerous to use.  Clearly he is acting very irresponsibly in doing so.  May be he was hoping it would cause trouble, just so long as it couldn't be traced back to him. 
Act 3: Anders now seems to be justifying all instances of mages turning to blood magic on their being desperate.  If there was no other form of magic available, this might carry some weight but the fact is you can wipe the floor with Templars without resorting to blood magic or summoning demons.  There are some good mages who keep away from blood magic and demon summoning.  They just seem to be very thin on the ground.   Why when faced with certain death do they think becoming an abomination is preferable?
Conclusion: The majority of major players in this story seem to have extreme views one way or another.  Those who try and keep peace between them or make lives better for others wind up dead.   The Champion is only the exception to this because the hero has to live.  May be it is all the fault of Varric's story telling.  He plays up the horrors and difficulties because otherwise it wouldn't be interesting.  The enemy has to be bad or you're not a hero.   I can't bring myself to romance Merril because I would feel a hypocrite and just be using her.  I can't bring myself to romance Anders because he is unstable and I would just be using him.  They are the only two real romantic options, where they move in, say I love you etc.   In the past I like mages, I play mages, I support mages, I want mages to be free.  In this game I cannot bring myself to love a mage, even when I am a mage and if I support to mages at the end, it is only because I cling to the belief that there has to be at least one innocent mage worth saving - in my warrior's case this is his little sister.   What Orsino does is a BIG let down.   If this story was meant to be propaganda for the free all mages movement, then for me at least, it is a failure.

[EmperorSahlertz]

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Taura-Tierno wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Taura-Tierno wrote...

By the time I reached act 3, I had a lot of trouble supporting the mages, even though I'd played a pro-mage Hawke, for the reasons the OP stated. If almost every mage turns into an abomination when he or she ends up in a troublesome situation, that proves Meredith's point. The Templars were right, at least regarding the mages of Kirkwall (who are at a greater risk than other mages).

But she wasn't killing them for unleashing the blood magic. She was killing them as retribution for Anders crimes. The fact that they did end up in a troublesome situation was entirely her fault. I mean, given no options and facing certain death, no mage had anything to lose. Meredith never saw any value in not antagonizing every mage every step of the way.

But it wasn't just every mage in act 3 - it was all those mages before act 3 as well. 

And it doesn't matter if it was their last choice ... if abominations are that dangerous, a mage turning into one is catastrophic, and it shouldn't happen. Turning to blood magic and possession in a life-and-death situation is not okay, simply because the abomination can wreck so much uncontrolled havoc afterwards. 

I certainly don't think Meredith did everything right, but from what we see in the game, I can hardly blame her for her opinions. 

Yes, when sentebced to death under false pretenses, mages should just take that beating like champs. How dare they bite back after being cudgeled for something they did not do!

The problem is that they wouldn't be able to stop themselves. By turning to demons in such dire circumstances they simply prove the Templars stance right. If they instead allowed the Templars to kill them, which is inevitable, they would prove the Templars entirely wrong, and they would die as martyrs, instead of beasts.

[CrimsonZephyr]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Taura-Tierno wrote...

CrimsonZephyr wrote...

Taura-Tierno wrote...

By the time I reached act 3, I had a lot of trouble supporting the mages, even though I'd played a pro-mage Hawke, for the reasons the OP stated. If almost every mage turns into an abomination when he or she ends up in a troublesome situation, that proves Meredith's point. The Templars were right, at least regarding the mages of Kirkwall (who are at a greater risk than other mages).

But she wasn't killing them for unleashing the blood magic. She was killing them as retribution for Anders crimes. The fact that they did end up in a troublesome situation was entirely her fault. I mean, given no options and facing certain death, no mage had anything to lose. Meredith never saw any value in not antagonizing every mage every step of the way.

But it wasn't just every mage in act 3 - it was all those mages before act 3 as well. 

And it doesn't matter if it was their last choice ... if abominations are that dangerous, a mage turning into one is catastrophic, and it shouldn't happen. Turning to blood magic and possession in a life-and-death situation is not okay, simply because the abomination can wreck so much uncontrolled havoc afterwards. 

I certainly don't think Meredith did everything right, but from what we see in the game, I can hardly blame her for her opinions. 

Yes, when sentebced to death under false pretenses, mages should just take that beating like champs. How dare they bite back after being cudgeled for something they did not do!

The problem is that they wouldn't be able to stop themselves. By turning to demons in such dire circumstances they simply prove the Templars stance right. If they instead allowed the Templars to kill them, which is inevitable, they would prove the Templars entirely wrong, and they would die as martyrs, instead of beasts.

Or things would keep on going as they always had. They might just get cut down and nothing comes of it. An obsessive, insane Knight-Commander gets lauded as a hero, the Circle begins anew, and the Templars rule with an even tighter grip. There is a grim, and very real possibility that simply allowing the Templars to kill them would change nothing. If none of the mages lived through that, Meredith would have spread any story she felt adequately justified her actions, even if they were laden with lies and delusion. Also, it might be easier to sell martyrdom to an adult, but the Circle also has many, many apprentices as young as six, who are now being hunted down due to events they do not understand caused by a man they have never heard of, none of which was their fault at all. Trying telling them that it's better that they die rather than live.

Modifié par CrimsonZephyr, 27 juillet 2011 - 08:04 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Fighting back at the Templars would change absolutely nothing. On the cotnrary, it would probably make it a whole lot worse, since now they would have shown every Templar, from the oldest to the youngest, in that particular Circle, just how bad magic can turn, and they will not be lenient towards the mages ever again.

If they took their punishment with silence, they would have proven the Templars wrong, and they would, more likely than not, have left a strong impression on the younger Templars.

To actually let the demons possess you during an annulment is simply the worst possible idea you can get, for all mages everywhere.

[CrimsonZephyr]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Fighting back at the Templars would change absolutely nothing. On the cotnrary, it would probably make it a whole lot worse, since now they would have shown every Templar, from the oldest to the youngest, in that particular Circle, just how bad magic can turn, and they will not be lenient towards the mages ever again.

If they took their punishment with silence, they would have proven the Templars wrong, and they would, more likely than not, have left a strong impression on the younger Templars.

To actually let the demons possess you during an annulment is simply the worst possible idea you can get, for all mages everywhere.

Perhaps, but conversely, Meredith's actions will set a dangerous precedent that the wrongdoing of one mage - any mage - is justification enough for a Circle-wide extermination. Because Meredith will be calling the shots and writing the propaganda, mages will not be viewed as martyrs, but rather as simply trash that needed to be taken out.

There really isn't any happy ending for the mages. Now, if they immolated themselves in protest, that might send a different message. But Templars are conditioned and sincerely believe that an annulment is, and always is, justified. Whether the mages fight back or take it is irrelevant. That they would be affected by the mages just dying also speaks much higher of human nature than this series usually does, as people are, by and large, b******ds in Thedas.