462 réponses à ce sujet

[Rinji the Bearded]

Davie McG wrote...

It's hardly unreasonable to choose sexual orientation at the character creation stage.

That way everyone gets to access the content they want and is appropriate to them.

How that in any way is discriminatory I fail to comprehend.

I still fail to comprehend why they would need to implement a toggle.  If the option comes up to flirt with a member of the same sex and that bothers you, obviously don't choose it.

Or is it the mere fact that the option would be there staring you in the face be too much to stand?

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 19 juillet 2011 - 07:59 .

[Davie McG]

stewie1974 wrote...

It's a game about screwing aliens, I really think of all the things to get worked up about, the gender of the alien is the least of your problems.....

I don't think I'd be too quick to generalise entire Mass Effect trilogy.

You don't need to romance any character to complete or enjoy this game.


Edit:
@RinjiRenee 

If you read the discussion I had with LiaraShepard I think the persons name was on page 14 and begining of 15 on this thread you'd see it could be an amicable compromise.

I don't find it too much to stand, I just think it would be preferable to choose at the begining ones sexual orientation.

As I also said on page 14 I'm not opposed to s/s content in this game, in fact I welcome it. I just think an option in the begining would be more diplomatic.

Modifié par Davie McG, 19 juillet 2011 - 08:05 .

[FoxHound109]

SmoothJazz wrote...

I don't think there will be a toggle. Bioware still firmly believes that FemShep/Liara is not a True lesbian romance, and I don't see them taking that back any time soon.

You don't honestly think they believe that, do you? That was just Bioware desperately performing logical gymnastics to explain why femShep could be gay and manShep couldn't. The entire premise of Liara and femShep not being "true lesbians" is laughable at best.

[MACharlie1]

Davie McG wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Failed.Bard wrote...

Ah, well, apparently people will still be offended by the option of others to pick their own characters orientation.  My mistake.

I'm assuming the offense isn't borne of people saying "I won't be picking the homosexual romances myself". It's when people start asking for a means with which to filter it out completely, lest they be briefly exposed to a homosexual advance and coincidentally acting as if they'll be somehow forced into returning the affection, then it gets a little more frustrating. If I pitched the suggestion to include a racial minority toggle, I'd be verbally strung up from the rafters, and quite rightfully so.There's no such thing as 'reasonable discrimination'.

It's hardly unreasonable to choose sexual orientation at the character creation stage.

That way everyone gets to access the content they want and is appropriate to them.

How that in any way is discriminatory I fail to comprehend.

Keep in mind that you have to think like a dev and a casual player - you can't think like the hardcore MASS EFFECT OMG BSN. To me, having the sexual orientation at character creation would be a little awkward (on top of all the other reasons of the toggle):

Please Reconstruct Profile:

Confirm Military Specialization

Confirm Pre-Service History

Confirm Profile

Confirm Sexual Orientation

To me, the casual player would be like...wha...?Why is this computer asking me this incredibly awkward and personal question...

If you don't want the gay man making a pass at you then don't hit on him. 

[stewie1974]

Davie McG wrote...

stewie1974 wrote...

It's a game about screwing aliens, I really think of all the things to get worked up about, the gender of the alien is the least of your problems.....

I don't think I'd be too quick to generalise entire Mass Effect trilogy.

You don't need to romance any character to complete or enjoy this game.

Which is why the s/s relationships should not be an issue

[FoxHound109]

I still don't get why people take such offense to being Ninjamanced by someone of the same sex. I've been Ninjamanced by the wrong character a few times and I just laugh. Because I have a sense of humor. There's nothing more awkward than having Ashley reciting poetry as she enters my Shepard's room and tries to rape him, and that to me spells plenty of "LUL"z. I just picture my poor Shepard freaking out at the thought of having to eat va-jay-jay.

Then I just reset to the closest save point and continue playing like nothing happened. It's not that serious people. Believe it or not, a character of the same sex hitting on your in-game avatar isn't going to affect your masculinity, nor is it going to turn you gay. What's the harm outside of a minor annoyance?

Modifié par FoxHound109, 19 juillet 2011 - 08:08 .

[tobynator89]

Shep is a character that the player develops as he plays. Being confronted with matters of sexuality is part of that. The characters mindset or personality is never determined at the start or taken into account when confronted by something. And I think it should remain so.

If you're made uncomfortable by something that you see in a game then is that an indicatior that the game is telling a poor story? no. I think it's proof of the opposite. The game is all about provoking emotions and your response to them.

[shepskisaac]

FoxHound109 wrote...

SmoothJazz wrote...

I don't think there will be a toggle. Bioware still firmly believes that FemShep/Liara is not a True lesbian romance, and I don't see them taking that back any time soon.

You don't honestly think they believe that, do you? That was just Bioware desperately performing logical gymnastics to explain why femShep could be gay and manShep couldn't. The entire premise of Liara and femShep not being "true lesbians" is laughable at best.

LOL this. It was so ridiuclous.
Press: "Why can't Shepard be gay?"
BioWare: "Shepard is a pre-defined character"
Press: "But female Shepard can be a lesbian?"
BioWare: "... Asari are not females."
Press: *facepalm*

[ipgd]

FoxHound109 wrote...

Believe it or not, a character of the same sex hitting on your in-game avatar isn't going to affect your masculinity, nor is it going to turn you gay. What's the harm outside of a minor annoyance?

You'd think it'd make them feel more manly. If a guy's hit on you, nobody can say you've just never had the opportunity! Affirm your heteromasculinity.

[Davie McG]

MACharlie1 wrote...

Davie McG wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Failed.Bard wrote...

Ah, well, apparently people will still be offended by the option of others to pick their own characters orientation.  My mistake.

I'm assuming the offense isn't borne of people saying "I won't be picking the homosexual romances myself". It's when people start asking for a means with which to filter it out completely, lest they be briefly exposed to a homosexual advance and coincidentally acting as if they'll be somehow forced into returning the affection, then it gets a little more frustrating. If I pitched the suggestion to include a racial minority toggle, I'd be verbally strung up from the rafters, and quite rightfully so.There's no such thing as 'reasonable discrimination'.

It's hardly unreasonable to choose sexual orientation at the character creation stage.

That way everyone gets to access the content they want and is appropriate to them.

How that in any way is discriminatory I fail to comprehend.

Keep in mind that you have to think like a dev and a casual player - you can't think like the hardcore MASS EFFECT OMG BSN. To me, having the sexual orientation at character creation would be a little awkward (on top of all the other reasons of the toggle):

Please Reconstruct Profile:

Confirm Military Specialization

Confirm Pre-Service History

Confirm Profile

Confirm Sexual Orientation

To me, the casual player would be like...wha...?Why is this computer asking me this incredibly awkward and personal question...

If you don't want the gay man making a pass at you then don't hit on him. 

I must admit I hadn't thought of that, when I was reading it I thought it wouldn't be out of place on a military record, but then I looked at it again as the average consumer, as you said, who hadn't played any of the previous games.. it would be a bit awkward.

Ah well I suppose I can't have everything, besides my main point in my previous posts on page 14 were about wheather or not certain existing characters should suddenly turn bisexual.

But thats a whole can of worms that's already been opened and had the lid forced back on.

[mellifera]

Davie McG wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Failed.Bard wrote...

Ah, well, apparently people will still be offended by the option of others to pick their own characters orientation.  My mistake.

I'm assuming the offense isn't borne of people saying "I won't be picking the homosexual romances myself". It's when people start asking for a means with which to filter it out completely, lest they be briefly exposed to a homosexual advance and coincidentally acting as if they'll be somehow forced into returning the affection, then it gets a little more frustrating. If I pitched the suggestion to include a racial minority toggle, I'd be verbally strung up from the rafters, and quite rightfully so.There's no such thing as 'reasonable discrimination'.

It's hardly unreasonable to choose sexual orientation at the character creation stage.

That way everyone gets to access the content they want and is appropriate to them.

How that in any way is discriminatory I fail to comprehend.

Because adding a toggle only after you introduce s/s content is basically akin to stating that you've only added this feature to protect poor straight people from even accidentally stumbling across the dirty gay.

Up until this point people who prefered to play gay male Shepards have had to deal with women throwing their space panties at them left and right. Somehow that is okay but optional, gay content that you have to actively select somehow needs to be hidden away so that straight guys don't even *see* the line that could potentially lead to s/s?

Modifié par yukidama, 19 juillet 2011 - 08:13 .

[Leonia]

If they are going to give us a same-sex toggle then I want a religious preference toggle and a favourite junk food toggle too.

Once you start adding toggles, you gotta add toggles for everything.

Don't want a same-sex romance? Don't engage in one.

The power is in your hands.

[FoxHound109]

tobynator89 wrote...

If you're made uncomfortable by something that you see in a game then is that an indicatior that the game is telling a poor story? no. I think it's proof of the opposite. The game is all about provoking emotions and your response to them.

Exactly. I hate Jack, but I would never have her removed from the game. She incites negative emotions in me because her world view is so unbelievably opposite to mine (and my Shep's) that it's gratting! I was especially pissed when she tried to go after Miranda. 

But that's the point: not everyone is meant to like her and not every character or situation in a game is there to comfort you. If that was the case, survival-horror games would be painfully boring and uniteresting. 

[bleetman]

Davie McG wrote...

I don't find it too much to stand, I just think it would be preferable to choose at the begining ones sexual orientation.

As I also said on page 14 I'm not opposed to s/s content in this game, in fact I welcome it. I just think an option in the begining would be more diplomatic.

You don't require a toggle to choose the sexual orientation of your character. In fact, it requires nothing more complex than thinking "so, my Shepard is straight". That's it.

I just don't find this "I'm not against <insert topic here>, as long as I don't have to see, hear or interact with it in any way, shape or form" business all that compelling.

[Markun120]

leonia42 wrote...

If they are going to give us a same-sex toggle then I want a religious preference toggle and a favourite junk food toggle too.

Once you start adding toggles, you gotta add toggles for everything.

Don't want a same-sex romance? Don't engage in one.

The power is in your hands.

I want a favorite junk food toggle now.

And I agree with the "don't accept the option" mentality.

[jlb524]

House_Hlaalu wrote...

I mean it is a completely legitimate claim, we're not trying to stir up trouble and annoy people on the internet (which is what a troll is), we are just being honest with our opinion and what we want. It is especially wrong for these threads to be locked as trolls when pro S/S threads are not. Just look at this thread.

The only reason i can think of is that this site is unashamedly biased, considiring the S/S thread is the most active thread on the board.

Just look at this thread.

All the "I hate Tali cuz she suks, why she in ME3 again?" threads are locked as well (while the Tali support thread is not) because:

1)  Tali has been confirmed for ME3 as a squad mate...complain about it all you want, it ain't changin

2)  If you really don't like Tali, leave her on the ship and never speak to her.

The same can be said about s/s romances:

1)  They are confirmed.

2)  They are avoidable...hell, even more avoidable than Tali.

Therefore, threads such as these are locked for trolling because they are trolling.

[FoxHound109]

ipgd wrote...

FoxHound109 wrote...

Believe it or not, a character of the same sex hitting on your in-game avatar isn't going to affect your masculinity, nor is it going to turn you gay. What's the harm outside of a minor annoyance?

You'd think it'd make them feel more manly. If a guy's hit on you, nobody can say you've just never had the opportunity! Affirm your heteromasculinity.

Honest to God: I have straight guy friends who actually LIKE being hit on by other guys. Their mentality is: "well, I must be pretty damned attractive to get hit on even by other guys." If only more people would take this kind of attitude in life, things would be a lot easier. I get hit on by girls all the time and I don't take offense. Hell, I get hit on by guys that are definitely not my type and I still don't take offense. Why should I? Someone is taking the time to tell me that they find something, even a piece of me, attractive and that, children, is called an honest complement. It's a really nice feeling if you're not too hung up on archaic social norms...

Modifié par FoxHound109, 19 juillet 2011 - 08:20 .

[Chun Hei]

The toggle option was discussed before on one of the MANY threads about s/s, and I believe the Bioware representative said the toggle would increase the likelihood of game breaking bugs and the "choice" game genre is plagued by enough bugs as it is.

I am offended by things like murder, bigotry and genocide but I do not ask for a toggle to spare myself the INCREDIBLE effort of not choosing to make Shepard a murderer, genocidal maniac or a bigot.

[jbblue05]

Wow another same-sex thread

[stewie1974]

FoxHound109 wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...

If you're made uncomfortable by something that you see in a game then is that an indicatior that the game is telling a poor story? no. I think it's proof of the opposite. The game is all about provoking emotions and your response to them.

Exactly. I hate Jack, but I would never have her removed from the game. She incites negative emotions in me because her world view is so unbelievably opposite to mine (and my Shep's) that it's gratting! I was especially pissed when she tried to go after Miranda. 

But that's the point: not everyone is meant to like her and not every character or situation in a game is there to comfort you. If that was the case, survival-horror games would be painfully boring and uniteresting. 

By this token of logic there should be characters who -are- not going to sleep with you  regardless of how -you- play. Just like in real life, you are going to get turned down and there should be those who only -swing- one way...both straight AND gay.....

i.e a gay woman who won't sleep with a male shep -ever-....as well as the opposite... a straight woman who won't sleep with a fem shep. Then there should be your -bi-sex good time had by all types.

How you as a straight male or gay male or straight female, gay female emotional respond to that is also good storytelling.

Does it upset you that you got turned down? Good story telling then.

Emotions provoked?

Sure they would be.

Just so long as it is equal across the board then it's fine.

Not everyone should be -bi-, as that's too easy, but everyone should be -one- orientation or the other and  only -some- characters should be -bi-

Modifié par stewie1974, 19 juillet 2011 - 08:36 .

[tobynator89]

stewie1974 wrote...

FoxHound109 wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...

If you're made uncomfortable by something that you see in a game then is that an indicatior that the game is telling a poor story? no. I think it's proof of the opposite. The game is all about provoking emotions and your response to them.

Exactly. I hate Jack, but I would never have her removed from the game. She incites negative emotions in me because her world view is so unbelievably opposite to mine (and my Shep's) that it's gratting! I was especially pissed when she tried to go after Miranda. 

But that's the point: not everyone is meant to like her and not every character or situation in a game is there to comfort you. If that was the case, survival-horror games would be painfully boring and uniteresting. 

By this token of logic there should be characters who -are- not going to sleep with you  regardless of how -you- play. Just like in real life, you are going to get turned down and there should be those who only -swing- one way...both straight AND gay.....

i.e a gay woman who won't sleep with a male shep -ever-....as well as the opposite... a straight woman who won't sleep with a fem shep. Then there should be your -bi-sex good time had by all types.

How you as a straight male or gay male or straight female, gay female emotional respond to that is also good storytelling.

Does it upset you that you got turned down? Good story telling then.

Emotions provoked?

Sure they would be.

Just so long as it is equal across the board then it's fine....

Agreed, shepard could do with a good getting turned down. They've made it waaaay too easy on the player when it comes to these things.

[jlb524]

stewie1974 wrote...
Just so long as it is equal across the board then it's fine.

If by 'equal' you mean 'add in strictly gay options' then that won't happen.   Romances are already content most people don't use, so they want to avoid restricting a large portion of those who would possibly use it from seeing it.

stewie1974 wrote...
Not everyone should be -bi-, as that's too easy, but everyone should be -one- orientation or the other and  only -some- characters should be -bi-

'All bi' is the easiest way to make things equal given limitations.

[LiaraShepard]

stewie1974 wrote...

FoxHound109 wrote...

tobynator89 wrote...

If you're made uncomfortable by something that you see in a game then is that an indicatior that the game is telling a poor story? no. I think it's proof of the opposite. The game is all about provoking emotions and your response to them.

Exactly. I hate Jack, but I would never have her removed from the game. She incites negative emotions in me because her world view is so unbelievably opposite to mine (and my Shep's) that it's gratting! I was especially pissed when she tried to go after Miranda. 

But that's the point: not everyone is meant to like her and not every character or situation in a game is there to comfort you. If that was the case, survival-horror games would be painfully boring and uniteresting. 

By this token of logic there should be characters who -are- not going to sleep with you  regardless of how -you- play. Just like in real life, you are going to get turned down and there should be those who only -swing- one way...both straight AND gay.....

i.e a gay woman who won't sleep with a male shep -ever-....as well as the opposite... a straight woman who won't sleep with a fem shep. Then there should be your -bi-sex good time had by all types.

How you as a straight male or gay male or straight female, gay female emotional respond to that is also good storytelling.

Does it upset you that you got turned down? Good story telling then.

Emotions provoked?

Sure they would be.

Just so long as it is equal across the board then it's fine.

Not everyone should be -bi-, as that's too easy, but everyone should be -one- orientation or the other and  only -some- characters should be -bi-

as long as all characters have the same importance to the story plot and not that the heterosexual ones are more important than the rest....as they were in dragon age origins.

[stewie1974]

LiaraShepard wrote...


as long as all characters have the same importance to the story plot and not that the heterosexual ones are more important than the rest....as they were in dragon age origins.

Agree.

[Pollyanna]

FoxHound109 wrote...

SmoothJazz wrote...

I don't think there will be a toggle. Bioware still firmly believes that FemShep/Liara is not a True lesbian romance, and I don't see them taking that back any time soon.

You don't honestly think they believe that, do you? That was just Bioware desperately performing logical gymnastics to explain why femShep could be gay and manShep couldn't. The entire premise of Liara and femShep not being "true lesbians" is laughable at best.

Sorry, poor choice of words there. I doubt they believe it themselves, but they still stand by what they said. When Casey Hudson announced S/S LI, He seemed to lump F/F and M/M romances together. like they were both new to ME. Even though most of us know thats not true.