462 réponses à ce sujet

[Comsky159]

lillegraa wrote...

I think a lot of people are simply tired of seeing threads going "I do not want to play a game wherein I can be exposed to something that goes against my personal beliefs, and I would like Bioware to take steps in order to ensure that anything of aforementioned nature is not present in my game", because really, it is a little silly.

Why can't people oppose something they personally object to?

[Ryzaki]

House_Hlaalu wrote...

To be fair, he didn't ask for it to be removed, he asked for an option, which is entirely reasonable, since it is offensive to a lot of people.

He asked for an option to remove it. 

It's little different than asking for a toggle to make Jacob white because the thought of interracial relationships with black males makes you uncomfortable. 

Now if I started a thread asking can the LIs be whitewashed so I don't have to deal with interracial relationships what exactly do you think the general response would be? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 juillet 2011 - 10:53 .

[House_Hlaalu]

Wittand25 wrote...

House_Hlaalu wrote...
I know everyone is getting a voice, i didn't say we are not in a democracy, im saying that what you said is undemocratic.

@second point. On this site, gay people don't have to worry about being called whiners or fanatics, because it seems to be inhabited largly by liberals, plus, you don't get banned, but it seems that people like me do. Im not going to lose my account, which i use all the time for non-S/S related discussion get banned for voicing my opinion. Im gonna have to use an Alt.

Paranoid much ?

As long as you stay civil and stick to forum rules there is no danger of getting a temporary ban. Lots of people who disagree with s/s content did not face negative consequences and several pro s/s posters did get temporary bans for violating the forum rules.
Please refrain from painting yourself as victim or claiming that there is a deliberate, unfair bias amongst the moderators.

That is not the only reason. If you post a topic against S/S, you are instantly labeled a bigot and a homophobe. Im not going to ruin my rep here, especialy since some of my friends are proS/S. That is why i usually ignore from posting in S/S forums. I expected to get banned, but the bigger reason was my reputation.

[Blacklash93]

House_Hlaalu wrote...

I know everyone is getting a voice, i didn't say we are not in a democracy, im saying that what you said is undemocratic.

@second point. On this site, gay people don't have to worry about being called whiners or fanatics, because it seems to be inhabited largly by liberals, plus, you don't get banned, but it seems that people like me do. Im not going to lose my account, which i use all the time for non-S/S related discussion get banned for voicing my opinion. Im gonna have to use an Alt.

Stating the basic nature of a democracy is not undemocratic. The loudest and most vocal group wins. If one side feels like they're being drowned out, they're just not trying hard enough. If you hate that, then you hate democracy. I never once said I would intentionally have one opinion oppressed over the other. That's simply what happens.

And there was  time when gays would have to fear literally being spat on and having garbage thrown at them for standing up for themselves. Did that stop them from getting to where they are today? If you're not willing to put up with risk, then you will not be able to make a difference.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 19 juillet 2011 - 10:59 .

[Ryzaki]

@House: So you're a coward then? You can't tell your friends to their face why you disagree with s/s romances? You have to hide behind an alternate account? You respect them that little? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 juillet 2011 - 10:55 .

[MassStorm]

Honestly i'm against S/S romances in games. However IF BW has decided to do so they should be absolutely sure that straight players could completely avoid this stuff. I would be extremely pissed off if a gay squadmate is trying to flirt with Shepard while i'm merely talking with him/her. DO NOT WANT THAT! NO DA2 system!

[House_Hlaalu]

Ryzaki wrote...

House_Hlaalu wrote...

To be fair, he didn't ask for it to be removed, he asked for an option, which is entirely reasonable, since it is offensive to a lot of people.

He asked for an option to remove it. 

It's little different than asking for a toggle to make Jacob white because the thought of interracial relationships with black males makes you uncomfortable. 

Now if I started a thread asking can the LIs be whitewashed so I don't have to deal with interracial relationships what exactly do you think the general response would be? 

I'll PM you, i don't want to derail the topic and get it banned, but it works both ways too. Asking for a toggle to remove the content is very reasonable.

[lillegraa]

House_Hlaalu wrote...

To be fair, he didn't ask for it to be removed, he asked for an option, which is entirely reasonable, since it is offensive to a lot of people.

It is not entirely reasonable. By not including the option to turn off s/s romances, they are telling people who feel threatened by homosexuality that the world does not bend to their wishes, and that as the gaming industry evolves and becomes more welcoming of homosexuals they will either have to adapt or stop playing games.

Which is what they should. While you and others who agree with you may right now feel as though Bioware doesn't care about your opinion, in the long run it will mean more people will realize that homosexuals deserve the same recognition and respect that everybody else does, which will at the end of the day result in all of us being that much more tolerant and accepting of our fellow humans, regardless of which gender they fancy.

[House_Hlaalu]

Ryzaki wrote...

@House: So you're a coward then? You can't tell your friends to their face why you disagree with s/s romances? You have to hide behind an alternate account? You respect them that little? 

No, im not going to let my political opinions get in the way of being friends with some good people. This does not pre-occupy most of my time. Not to mention all my characters and DLC are on my main account, so im not about to get that banned. I'd just rather ignore all S/S. It just annoys me when they are all locked, so thats why i created this thread.

Modifié par House_Hlaalu, 19 juillet 2011 - 11:05 .

[Slayer_22]

You do know you can just IGNORE the whole same sex relationships, right? You can completely ignore it and act as if it's not there. I'm sure Bioware won't have the characters running around like "I LOVE YOU SHEPARD SEX NOW" Just avoid it. It would be like me suddenly wanting to halt all heterosexual relationships just because I want to, when I could just as easily ignore it. Just look at it this way, I doubt the same sex romances will openly admit to wanting your body if you're just nice to them, if you choose to flirt, that is YOUR choice. Can't we all just get along? Arguing over sexuality of characters in a video game gets us nowhere, especially a video game this far into development.

[whywhywhywhy]

lillegraa wrote...

Ok I am a straight girl who has never used the s/s romance option in any of the BW games it has been included in, but I still think it's absolutely great that they are doing it. I cannot see any reasons why not to. On my "canon" Shepard, I romanced Garrus, I think he's a lovely character. I would not like him any less at all if he was to be an s/s romance in ME3. I don't really see how it freaking matters.

It's like some people have an entirely screwed up perception of homosexuality, especially male homosexuality. Like they expect that any guy who happens to dig other guys to strut around in a hot pink feather boa. Like gayness or any association with anything remotely gay damages your masculinity beyond repair.

uhh, yes. And about why the threads not wanting homosexual romances are labelled as trolls; they might not be trolls, but they are asking for a game that restricts the options of others for no good reason. Like in that thread you mentioned, some people definitely took ridiculing him a little far, even after he admitted he was wrong, but I think a lot of people are simply tired of seeing threads going "I do not want to play a game wherein I can be exposed to something that goes against my personal beliefs, and I would like Bioware to take steps in order to ensure that anything of aforementioned nature is not present in my game", because really, it is a little silly.

If you really feel this way then what of the promiscuous womanizer/man-eaters that don't want their character to "settle down" ?  What of the Polyamory relationships out there ?  mfm and fmf ?  Why is that silent minority being forced to play a certain way ?  

If BW opened up to be whatever romance you wanted or be it just physical relationships then I'd say cool.  That's not what happened, S-S supporters petition for it to be included in the game.  Fine. But when others speak out in the same fashion the supporters did against it they are banned/thread locked ?  Shows bias.  I hate bias in any form, if BW was so sure of their decision why aren't people being allowed to talk about how that decision affects the gamer who disagree ?  They should be heard if they can articulate their view in a meaningful manner.

[Ryzaki]

House_Hlaalu wrote...
No, im not going to let my political opinions get in the way of being friends with some good people. This does not pre-occupy most of my time. Not to mention all my characters and DLC are on my main account, so im not about get that banned. I'd just rather ignore all S/S. It just annoys me when they are all locked, so that why i created this thread.

Nah you're not gonna let them see the kind of person you really are is what you mean. 

And no one has gotten banned for posting their opinon. There's a well known anti s/s romance group that the devs clearly know who is leading so if there was any "banning" it would've started there. And yet it hasn't.  Probably because they don't break site rules! How utterly unsurprising. <_< 

And on this note since your PM has majorily pissed me off I'm outta here. Good day.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 juillet 2011 - 11:06 .

[House_Hlaalu]

Slayer_22 wrote...

You do know you can just IGNORE the whole same sex relationships, right? You can completely ignore it and act as if it's not there. I'm sure Bioware won't have the characters running around like "I LOVE YOU SHEPARD SEX NOW" Just avoid it. It would be like me suddenly wanting to halt all heterosexual relationships just because I want to, when I could just as easily ignore it. Just look at it this way, I doubt the same sex romances will openly admit to wanting your body if you're just nice to them, if you choose to flirt, that is YOUR choice. Can't we all just get along? Arguing over sexuality of characters in a video game gets us nowhere, especially a video game this far into development.

Thats not what happened in DA2, as well as the fact that established characters in previous ME games are going to be Bi now.

Not only that, i disagree with the whole notion. If this is what it is like today, what is it going to be like in 10 years?

Modifié par House_Hlaalu, 19 juillet 2011 - 11:07 .

[Blacklash93]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

If you really feel this way then what of the promiscuous womanizer/man-eaters that don't want their character to "settle down" ?  What of the Polyamory relationships out there ?  mfm and fmf ?  Why is that silent minority being forced to play a certain way ?  

You answered yourself.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 19 juillet 2011 - 11:09 .

[Ryzaki]

Slayer_22 wrote...

You do know you can just IGNORE the whole same sex relationships, right? You can completely ignore it and act as if it's not there. I'm sure Bioware won't have the characters running around like "I LOVE YOU SHEPARD SEX NOW" Just avoid it. It would be like me suddenly wanting to halt all heterosexual relationships just because I want to, when I could just as easily ignore it. Just look at it this way, I doubt the same sex romances will openly admit to wanting your body if you're just nice to them, if you choose to flirt, that is YOUR choice. Can't we all just get along? Arguing over sexuality of characters in a video game gets us nowhere, especially a video game this far into development.

That's too difficult Slayer. The content must be removed by BW for them to not be horrified by its inclusion. 

God I wish BW would remove the romances period. No romances, no one flirting with Shep nada. That way everyone has the same exact sandbox to play in. 

[luzburg]

its going to happen, i don realy care if its possible sticking to liara anyway

Regaring man on man in the game, FFS its not an entrance its an exit!

Modifié par luzburg, 19 juillet 2011 - 11:11 .

[ElitePinecone]

House_Hlaalu wrote...
Not only that, i disagree with the whole notion. If this is what it is like today, what is it going to be like in 10 years?

Better.

You're gonna *hate* the future. 

[Comsky159]

Ryzaki wrote...

House_Hlaalu wrote...

To be fair, he didn't ask for it to be removed, he asked for an option, which is entirely reasonable, since it is offensive to a lot of people.

He asked for an option to remove it. 

It's little different than asking for a toggle to make Jacob white because the thought of interracial relationships with black males makes you uncomfortable. 

Now if I started a thread asking can the LIs be whitewashed so I don't have to deal with interracial relationships what exactly do you think the general response would be? 

That's blatant misrepresentation of those in favour of this toggle. In my mind and friends who share my opinion they are very different standpoints.

You have to understand that this type of offensive comparison can work for either side.

Modifié par Comsky159, 19 juillet 2011 - 11:22 .

[nijnij]

The fact that you joined just to post this makes me wonder whether you're indeed a troll.

[Ryzaki]

Comsky159 wrote..


That's blatant misrepresentation of those against this toggle. In my mind and friends who share my opinion they are very different standpoints.

Consider instead if I asked for pedophilia to be involved. You have to understand that this type of offensive comparison can work for either side.

Actually it's more like your representation than you like to admit. 

Asking for pedophila (which by the way unlike homosexuality DOES NOT INVOLVE CONSENTING ADULTS) is not the same as asking for homosexuality. It is more tantamount to asking for RAPE. If Shepard could rape adults I would wonder why he couldn't rape children. As that is not the case it has no bearing on the conversation. 

An interracial relationship however involves two consenting adults like homosexuality. And like homosexuality certian parties disapprove and do not want to see it. 

So no it's nothing like pedophilia honey button. I'd appreciate you not trying to use crappy analogies. 

[House_Hlaalu]

Ryzaki wrote...

House_Hlaalu wrote...
No, im not going to let my political opinions get in the way of being friends with some good people. This does not pre-occupy most of my time. Not to mention all my characters and DLC are on my main account, so im not about get that banned. I'd just rather ignore all S/S. It just annoys me when they are all locked, so that why i created this thread.

Nah you're not gonna let them see the kind of person you really are is what you mean. 

And no one has gotten banned for posting their opinon. There's a well known anti s/s romance group that the devs clearly know who is leading so if there was any "banning" it would've started there. And yet it hasn't.  Probably because they don't break site rules! How utterly unsurprising. <_< 

And on this note since your PM has majorily pissed me off I'm outta here. Good day.  

Not really, as i said, it doesn't dominate my time, my personality doesn't revolve around being against S/S. I have convos with my friends and talk to them. Its like a married couple, one votes for the conservative party, the other the liberal party. Different politics, but thats not going to get in the way of a relationship. Personally on this site ive seen people just ignore anti-S/S people without giving them a chance, so im just gonna leave it alone and talk about the many other things here.

And beyond groups, things usually get banned. Its why there is an absolutely massive pro-S/S thread, but no ant-S/S threads.

But! This seems to be the first to get on with minimal bad stuff (hate speech, spam, bickering on either side). So there is hope.

Modifié par House_Hlaalu, 19 juillet 2011 - 11:15 .

[Soap-Shepard]

Personally I would say that It doesn't bother me that NEW squadmates are bi ...
I just want two things from bioware about this :
-First: I don't want that squaddies with established sexual orientations to be magically bi in ME3 .
-Second : In Dragon Age 2 , both Fenris and Anders told they wanted to start something with me ...
And I said to the two that I didn't want them as a LI just as friends but they started to flirt with me even if I didn't take an dialogue option with a heart ... So I would like to see the bi squad mates flirt with Shepard only if Shepard tell them that they interest him ... Cause telling them I don't want them as LI makes me lose their approval ...

PS : It could be interesting to see a scene where a bi character ( same sex than Shepard ) telling his feelings to his commmander and shepard saying that he is already in love with * Previously romanced LI * and that after that scene there would be a rivalry between Shepard's LI and the bi character ...

[Blacklash93]

nijnij wrote...

The fact that you joined just to post this makes me wonder whether you're indeed a troll.

No. Trolls generally don't actually believe what they post. I know what the OP is, but I'm too polite to say it. Ryzaki put it nicely, though.

If you can't present your true self with your opinion, then don't say anything at all.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 19 juillet 2011 - 11:18 .

[Slayer_22]

House_Hlaalu wrote...

Slayer_22 wrote...

You do know you can just IGNORE the whole same sex relationships, right? You can completely ignore it and act as if it's not there. I'm sure Bioware won't have the characters running around like "I LOVE YOU SHEPARD SEX NOW" Just avoid it. It would be like me suddenly wanting to halt all heterosexual relationships just because I want to, when I could just as easily ignore it. Just look at it this way, I doubt the same sex romances will openly admit to wanting your body if you're just nice to them, if you choose to flirt, that is YOUR choice. Can't we all just get along? Arguing over sexuality of characters in a video game gets us nowhere, especially a video game this far into development.

Thats not what happened in DA2, as well as the fact that established characters in previous ME games are going to be Bi now.

Not only that, i disagree with the whole notion. If this is what it is like today, what is it going to be like in 10 years?

Well, if bioware sees that people hated Anders suddenly wanting to jump your bones the first time you meet. If we're going to be taking blame from games that were made before, then Mass Effect will have their quivers disappearing and our romances will not always be mentioned at the end, or it will mention two at once. Why? Because everything that happened in DA2 WILL happen in ME3. It's LAW now. And who knows if Ashley wasn't bisexual? Maybe she was a late bloomer? Maybe she thought that Shepard looked ugly in ME1 and she looks like she lost ten pounds and has a hot new hairstyle in ME3. Maybe she just decided that she cares for Shepard. Stop being so one-dimensional. Just because you're not bisexual doesn't mean others can't be.

And what would what be in ten years? What? Video game characters turning bisexual to add to the amount of homosexual and heterosexual characters for each and every sexuality? I'd totally accept that. I most likely would not make a homosexual character, because I find the act odd and in no way do I like the idea of myself or any character I play to be homosexual, tbh. But that doesn't mean I don't want others to have the freedom that I would. I really don't see why you can't just ignore the same sex romances, maybe ask Casey Hudson, in a formal and nice way, on twitter or something, if there are any same sex characters that will want to eat shepard's face if he says a few nice things about them. I highly doubt they would, and even if they did, would it be THAT much of a big deal? Would you drop your control on the floor, eject the disk, put it in the case and drive to the store you bought it to return it for the undisclosed amount of money? If you would let such a small thing effect you, no offense, but you really shouldn't be playing a game where you're allowed freedom of choice and play something else.

[Slayer_22]

Ryzaki wrote...

Slayer_22 wrote...

You do know you can just IGNORE the whole same sex relationships, right? You can completely ignore it and act as if it's not there. I'm sure Bioware won't have the characters running around like "I LOVE YOU SHEPARD SEX NOW" Just avoid it. It would be like me suddenly wanting to halt all heterosexual relationships just because I want to, when I could just as easily ignore it. Just look at it this way, I doubt the same sex romances will openly admit to wanting your body if you're just nice to them, if you choose to flirt, that is YOUR choice. Can't we all just get along? Arguing over sexuality of characters in a video game gets us nowhere, especially a video game this far into development.

That's too difficult Slayer. The content must be removed by BW for them to not be horrified by its inclusion. 

God I wish BW would remove the romances period. No romances, no one flirting with Shep nada. That way everyone has the same exact sandbox to play in. 

I agree. But even then the "fans" of bioware would complain about that. 

Edit: Better idea, make the game cost 10 dollars and have 50 dollars worth of content on xbox live. 5 dollars for heterosexual romances. 5 for bisexual. 5 for homosexual. 20 dollars for missions. And so on and so fourth.

Modifié par Slayer_22, 19 juillet 2011 - 11:21 .