462 réponses à ce sujet

[Comsky159]

Ryzaki wrote...

Comsky159 wrote..


That's blatant misrepresentation of those against this toggle. In my mind and friends who share my opinion they are very different standpoints.

Consider instead if I asked for pedophilia to be involved. You have to understand that this type of offensive comparison can work for either side.

Actually it's more like your representation than you like to admit. 

Asking for pedophila (which by the way unlike homosexuality DOES NOT INVOLVE CONSENTING ADULTS) is not the same as asking for homosexuality. It is more tantamount to asking for RAPE. If Shepard could rape adults I would wonder why he couldn't rape children. As that is not the case it has no bearing on the conversation. 

An interracial relationship however involves two consenting adults like homosexuality. And like homosexuality certian parties disapprove and do not want to see it. 

So no it's nothing like pedophilia honey button. I'd appreciate you not trying to use crappy analogies. 

You're right there, it wasn't an appropriate link. I just took offense I suppose, and should have considered an example more relevant to my point. Not something to argue here in retrospect. I stand by the principle however.

Modifié par Comsky159, 19 juillet 2011 - 11:28 .

[MACharlie1]

House_Hlaalu wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

House_Hlaalu wrote...
No, im not going to let my political opinions get in the way of being friends with some good people. This does not pre-occupy most of my time. Not to mention all my characters and DLC are on my main account, so im not about get that banned. I'd just rather ignore all S/S. It just annoys me when they are all locked, so that why i created this thread.

Nah you're not gonna let them see the kind of person you really are is what you mean. 

And no one has gotten banned for posting their opinon. There's a well known anti s/s romance group that the devs clearly know who is leading so if there was any "banning" it would've started there. And yet it hasn't.  Probably because they don't break site rules! How utterly unsurprising. <_< 

And on this note since your PM has majorily pissed me off I'm outta here. Good day.  

Not really, as i said, it doesn't dominate my time, my personality doesn't revolve around being against S/S. I have convos with my friends and talk to them. Its like a married couple, one votes for the conservative party, the other the liberal party. Different politics, but thats not going to get in the way of a relationship. Personally on this site ive seen people just ignore anti-S/S people without giving them a chance, so im just gonna leave it alone and talk about the many other things here.

And beyond groups, things usually get banned. Its why there is an absolutely massive pro-S/S thread, but no ant-S/S threads.

But! This seems to be the first to get on with minimal bad stuff (hate speech, spam, bickering on either side). So there is hope.

Anti-threads are typically banned across the board. Like no Anti-Tali threads or Anti-Miranda threads. United by hatred doesn't create for productive discussion and creates mob mentality.

And Don't get your hopes up. Most Americans haven't woken up yet. :innocent:

[Sshodan]

No, toggle is not a good idea. Why? Because if they write the chars correctly than their orientation is a part of the char. How would you suggest Liliana can be made straight? Her personal quest deals with her former female lover after all... If the s/s options are just lack of the gender check it's possible, but I expect better writhing than that form Boiware usually.
I do support the DA2 approach of making all any any flirt options with a huge and clearly visible hear thou - it is a good way to avoid misunderstanding and prevent one form accidentally flirting with the characters you do not wish to flirt with.

[whywhywhywhy]

lillegraa wrote...

House_Hlaalu wrote...

To be fair, he didn't ask for it to be removed, he asked for an option, which is entirely reasonable, since it is offensive to a lot of people.

It is not entirely reasonable. By not including the option to turn off s/s romances, they are telling people who feel threatened by homosexuality that the world does not bend to their wishes, and that as the gaming industry evolves and becomes more welcoming of homosexuals they will either have to adapt or stop playing games.

Which is what they should. While you and others who agree with you may right now feel as though Bioware doesn't care about your opinion, in the long run it will mean more people will realize that homosexuals deserve the same recognition and respect that everybody else does, which will at the end of the day result in all of us being that much more tolerant and accepting of our fellow humans, regardless of which gender they fancy.

This is extremely hypocritical.  You should have the right to S-S romance ADDED to the game but if I as a gamer don't enjoy that lifestyle it should be forced upon me ?  Your ridiculous.  The problem with that is your trying to force your views upon those who don't agree with it, this wil surely cause a divide.  If BW took this option and didn't include a option to turn on S-S romances (excluding any character who is defined homosexual)  I would definately not buy the game. 

[House_Hlaalu]

ElitePinecone wrote...

House_Hlaalu wrote...
Not only that, i disagree with the whole notion. If this is what it is like today, what is it going to be like in 10 years?

Better.

You're gonna *hate* the future. 

Indeed, it seems i will. This is why i am fighting for it tooth and nail. That is why there should be an against thread.

[Ryzaki]

I should get a toggle to turn all female characters into men because I don't want the lifestyle of females fighting forced on me.

I should get a toggle to turn all blacks in power to white people because I don't want that forced on me.

I should get a toggle to turn all LIs X race because I don't want X forced on me.

I should get a toggle to turn all bi LIs straight because I don't want gay romances forced on me. (Nevermind the fact that they're optional and I'll have plenty of chances to reject them). 

I should get a toggle to turn all straight LIs gay because I don't want hetero romances forced on me. 

It's all equally pathetic.Actually the latter is the most pathetic. It is the only choice in the bunch that is actually optional to begin with.  

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 juillet 2011 - 11:27 .

[whywhywhywhy]

Blacklash93 wrote...

whywhywhywhy wrote...

If you really feel this way then what of the promiscuous womanizer/man-eaters that don't want their character to "settle down" ?  What of the Polyamory relationships out there ?  mfm and fmf ?  Why is that silent minority being forced to play a certain way ?  

You answered yourself.

No if this is about respecting others choices then all should have been included from the start.

[House_Hlaalu]

nijnij wrote...

The fact that you joined just to post this makes me wonder whether you're indeed a troll.

If you read any of my previous posts, you would understand that this is an Alt account, and the history of all the other banned Anti-S/S threads made me apprehensive against posting. As well as my rep, because we are always labeled incorrectly as bigots and homophobes.

[Slayer_22]

Ryzaki wrote...

I should get a toggle to turn all female characters into men because I don't want the lifestyle of females fighting forced on me.

I should get a toggle to turn all blacks in power to white people because I don't want that forced on me.

I should get a toggle to turn all LIs X race because I don't want X forced on me.

I should get a toggle to turn all bi LIs straight because I don't want gay romances forced on me. (Nevermind the fact that they're optional and I'll have plenty of chances to reject them). 

It's all equally pathetic.Actually the latter is the most pathetic. It is the only choice in the bunch that is actually optional to begin with.  

No, that wouldn't be fair! What about people who hate toggles? Does no one care about them?

[MACharlie1]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

lillegraa wrote...

House_Hlaalu wrote...

To be fair, he didn't ask for it to be removed, he asked for an option, which is entirely reasonable, since it is offensive to a lot of people.

It is not entirely reasonable. By not including the option to turn off s/s romances, they are telling people who feel threatened by homosexuality that the world does not bend to their wishes, and that as the gaming industry evolves and becomes more welcoming of homosexuals they will either have to adapt or stop playing games.

Which is what they should. While you and others who agree with you may right now feel as though Bioware doesn't care about your opinion, in the long run it will mean more people will realize that homosexuals deserve the same recognition and respect that everybody else does, which will at the end of the day result in all of us being that much more tolerant and accepting of our fellow humans, regardless of which gender they fancy.

This is extremely hypocritical.  You should have the right to S-S romance ADDED to the game but if I as a gamer don't enjoy that lifestyle it should be forced upon me ?  Your ridiculous.  The problem with that is your trying to force your views upon those who don't agree with it, this wil surely cause a divide.  If BW took this option and didn't include a option to turn on S-S romances (excluding any character who is defined homosexual)  I would definately not buy the game. 

Waitaminute. I thought all romances were optional. 

[Ryzaki]

Slayer_22 wrote...
No, that wouldn't be fair! What about people who hate toggles? Does no one care about them?

Oh NOES! We'd need a toggle to destroy all toggles! But...it's a toggle! *head explodes*

[House_Hlaalu]

Ryzaki wrote...

Comsky159 wrote..


That's blatant misrepresentation of those against this toggle. In my mind and friends who share my opinion they are very different standpoints.

Consider instead if I asked for pedophilia to be involved. You have to understand that this type of offensive comparison can work for either side.

Actually it's more like your representation than you like to admit. 

Asking for pedophila (which by the way unlike homosexuality DOES NOT INVOLVE CONSENTING ADULTS) is not the same as asking for homosexuality. It is more tantamount to asking for RAPE. If Shepard could rape adults I would wonder why he couldn't rape children. As that is not the case it has no bearing on the conversation. 

An interracial relationship however involves two consenting adults like homosexuality. And like homosexuality certian parties disapprove and do not want to see it. 

So no it's nothing like pedophilia honey button. I'd appreciate you not trying to use crappy analogies. 

However, both Pedophiliacs and gay people claim to be born the way they are, so shouldn't pedophiliacs get equal rights as well?

After all, they are born that way.

[ElitePinecone]

whywhywhywhy wrote...
be forced upon me 

No. 

You aren't forced to take the option. 

I look forward to seeing the Mass Effect 3 badge under your name, despite the fact that Bioware will include same-sex relationships and they won't make a toggle.

If you feel so strongly about a few lines of dialogue in a space-faring third-person-shooter/RPG hybrid, to the point where you'd avoid buying it because of optional content, you might think about avoiding newspapers, films, books, TV, music, radio, or, you know, real life. Because like it or not, the big wide world out there contains same-sex attracted people. And they're right behind you. Right now. 

[whywhywhywhy]

Ryzaki wrote...

I should get a toggle to turn all blacks in power to white people because I don't want that forced on me.

First it's African american.
Second I hate when people try to compare the homosexual struggle to that of what my ancestors went through.  It's not even remotely close.  The subject here is about Differing views NOT trying to tie in racism into a platform to fight different views on relationship lifestyles.  I am greatly offended.

Modifié par whywhywhywhy, 19 juillet 2011 - 11:39 .

[Ryzaki]

House_Hlaalu wrote...

However, both Pedophiliacs and gay people claim to be born the way they are, so shouldn't pedophiliacs get equal rights as well?

After all, they are born that way.

If you can't tell the difference between a consensual adult relationship and the rape of a child frankly put sir you're an idiot. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 juillet 2011 - 11:35 .

[Slayer_22]

House_Hlaalu wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Comsky159 wrote..


That's blatant misrepresentation of those against this toggle. In my mind and friends who share my opinion they are very different standpoints.

Consider instead if I asked for pedophilia to be involved. You have to understand that this type of offensive comparison can work for either side.

Actually it's more like your representation than you like to admit. 

Asking for pedophila (which by the way unlike homosexuality DOES NOT INVOLVE CONSENTING ADULTS) is not the same as asking for homosexuality. It is more tantamount to asking for RAPE. If Shepard could rape adults I would wonder why he couldn't rape children. As that is not the case it has no bearing on the conversation. 

An interracial relationship however involves two consenting adults like homosexuality. And like homosexuality certian parties disapprove and do not want to see it. 

So no it's nothing like pedophilia honey button. I'd appreciate you not trying to use crappy analogies. 

However, both Pedophiliacs and gay people claim to be born the way they are, so shouldn't pedophiliacs get equal rights as well?

After all, they are born that way.

If you're going that way, Heterosexuals claim to be born the way they are.

[MACharlie1]

House_Hlaalu wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Comsky159 wrote..


That's blatant misrepresentation of those against this toggle. In my mind and friends who share my opinion they are very different standpoints.

Consider instead if I asked for pedophilia to be involved. You have to understand that this type of offensive comparison can work for either side.

Actually it's more like your representation than you like to admit. 

Asking for pedophila (which by the way unlike homosexuality DOES NOT INVOLVE CONSENTING ADULTS) is not the same as asking for homosexuality. It is more tantamount to asking for RAPE. If Shepard could rape adults I would wonder why he couldn't rape children. As that is not the case it has no bearing on the conversation. 

An interracial relationship however involves two consenting adults like homosexuality. And like homosexuality certian parties disapprove and do not want to see it. 

So no it's nothing like pedophilia honey button. I'd appreciate you not trying to use crappy analogies. 

However, both Pedophiliacs and gay people claim to be born the way they are, so shouldn't pedophiliacs get equal rights as well?

After all, they are born that way.

Incorrect. You will find that most pedophiles had...issues during their development typically involving another pedophile.   

That and I'm not sure of the legality of including pedophilia in a game. 

[ElitePinecone]

House_Hlaalu wrote...

After all, they are born that way.

Ridiculous comparison. A child can't provide informed consent to a relationship. That's the entire legal basis for why pedophilia is criminalised. 

Your posts are becoming increasingly tiresome. 

Argue without nonsense like this and we might even start to take you seriously. 

[Ryzaki]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

I should get a toggle to turn all blacks in power to white people because I don't want that forced on me.

First it's African american.
Second I hate when people try to compare the homosexual struggle to that of what my ancestors went through.  It's not even remotely close.  The subject here is about Differing views NOT trying to tie in racism into a platform to fight different views on relationship lifestyles.  I am greatly offended.

Oh noes! There might be gay people offended by what you're saying. It doesn't seem to matter to you so why should I care if you're offended? 

And people do have differing views sweet cheeks That's part of the spice of life. If you don't have to see things you don't like neither should I. 

[nijnij]

Blacklash93 wrote...

No. Trolls generally don't actually believe what they post. I know what the OP is, but I'm too polite to say it. Ryzaki put it nicely, though.

If you can't present your true self with your opinion, then don't say anything at all.

Well, I do believe the OP is sincere, I just notice a tendency for S/S ranting threads to be unique threads from new posters (actually, I wonder if they're all from the same dude sometimes). I'm for freedom of speech but if someone feels the need to hide behind an alt account (even though their main account is anonymous as well), to me it's kind of a statement that they know they're being offensive. I don't mind discussing it though, it's just something I've noticed.

[Ryzaki]

Nevermind. I need to cool down. Getting too angry over the internet. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 19 juillet 2011 - 11:34 .

[BSN89000]

ElitePinecone wrote...
This isn't a personal attack, but your characterisation of m/m romances is woefully ignorant. 

It's not a simple dichotomy, people don't fall down clearly divided lines, and the stereotypes you read about are neither common nor that obvious - at least from my perspective. 

I highly doubt Bioware want to get into the finer technical details of male sex, but suffice it to say that I've been plenty of couples where both members are stereotypically 'strong', or stereotypically 'slim'. I'd go so far as to say most real-life people I've met have been impossible to categorise the way you just did. 

Again, not a personal attack, but your post is fundamentally wrong on a number of levels. 

It doesn't matter "strong" of "slim". If they "take turns", both would be looked down upon (to put it mildly) in closely-knit high-testosterone communities such as infantry platoons and special forces teams. That's not a matter of my "ignorance", that's a matter of the "ignorance" of those skin heads in the military.

[Blacklash93]

As for the actual point to this topic, the reason most anti-S/S threads are labeled as trolling topics is becuase they're based off of irrational concerns. Being concerned or offended over something so insignificant AND optional is just... stupid, frankly.

It's like a topic made because one person is deathly afraid of space hamster. At the end of the day, it's pointless and trivial bickering over optional content.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 19 juillet 2011 - 11:36 .

[nijnij]

Slayer_22 wrote...
Edit: Better idea, make the game cost 10 dollars and have 50 dollars worth of content on xbox live. 5 dollars for heterosexual romances. 5 for bisexual. 5 for homosexual. 20 dollars for missions. And so on and so fourth.

I'm baffled that people would rather pay for DLC than have content in the game that is totally optional in the first place. Does homopobia go that far ?

[Elvis_Mazur]

Because the same sex defenders think their opinion is the only valid one.

Simple as that.