I get the feeling Tali just keeps being included as fan service as in terms or characters she is nowhere near as interesting as characters like Mordin or Wrex.
She is holding back a more interesting characters development by taking up a character spot.
Dissapointed at Tali being permanent again....
Débuté par
El Chupacabra
, juil. 19 2011 11:57
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#2
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:01
AlexMBrennan
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Try again in a few months (i.e. a few months after signing up) - creating a somewhat ... inflammatory threat like this 5 minutes after joining might be considered indicative of troll activity.
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6 minute(s) ago El Chupacabra wrote a new topic Dissapointed at Tali being permanent again....
11 minute(s) ago El Chupacabra signed up.
Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 19 juillet 2011 - 12:05 .
#3
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:02
yfullman
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I like tali but I suppose I feel the same. I just feel like she should mostly be uniting her ppl. I'm much more disappointed Liara is though. I like both characters bit were going up against the Reapers. We have met far more powerful asari than her and I think her abilities would be better suited as the shadow broker. Tali has been called the best tech specialist in the galaxy so I suppose I can tolerate her attendance lol
#4
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:04
roflchoppaz
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El Chupacabra wrote...
I get the feeling Tali just keeps being included as fan service as in terms or characters she is nowhere near as interesting as characters like Mordin or Wrex.
She is holding back a more interesting characters development by taking up a character spot.
u jelly?
#5
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:04
MACharlie1
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I don't think she'll be permanent. Squad selection is working differently this time around and I think only Vega and VS will be permanent with even Garrus, Tali and Liara going off to do something else.
#6
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:06
El Chupacabra
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AlexMBrennan wrote...
Try again in a few months (i.e. a few months after signing up) - creating a somewhat ... inflammatory threat like this 5 minutes after joining might be considered indicative of troll activity.Recent Activity
Didn't realise being new meant I wasn't allowed to voice my opinion.
#7
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:11
CroGamer002
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yfullman wrote...
I like tali but I suppose I feel the same. I just feel like she should mostly be uniting her ppl. I'm much more disappointed Liara is though. I like both characters bit were going up against the Reapers. We have met far more powerful asari than her and I think her abilities would be better suited as the shadow broker. Tali has been called the best tech specialist in the galaxy so I suppose I can tolerate her attendance lol
OK, why she?
She's just liked among her people, but that's it.
She's not capable to lead.
#8
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:27
StellarMagic
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I doubt it's just for fan service, making her a LI may have been, but looking at the overriding plot from ME1 to ME3 the quarians and as a result their representative on the Normandy takes primary importance. If she was exiled where would she have gone anyway?
Tali is quite well developed already, sure... she's not exactly the most complicated character design but then she's young and younger characters tend to be a bit simpler. (She's 22 in ME1 and 24 in ME2, which may actually have an effective age that's younger or older then that depending on Quarian physiology and psychology). Ultimately Tali and Legion are at least as important if not more important then Mordin or Wrex.
Wrex and Grunt represent the two ends of Krogan society. Wrex is old, wise, and intelligent. Grunt is a 16 year old with anger management issues. Mordin is a guilt ridden old scientist. Are they interesting? Yes. Are they characters that people can be as easily emotionally invested in as Tali or Garrus? Not really. Tali and Quarians overall are designed as a sort of Woobie, if you're unfamiliar with the term I suggest tvtropes.org to understand. It's hard to beat a woobie for emotional investment.
Another angle to consider is that the characters are also representative of sides to issues that are flashpoints in this final chapter.
Conflict 1: Geth - Quarian Conflict
Quarian Side - Represented by Tali'Zorah
Geth Side - Represented by Legion
Conflict 2: Krogan Genophage
Krogan Side - Represented by Wrex and Wreav
Salarian Side - Represented by Mordin
Repercussions - Represented by Grunt
I could go on... the number of characters with ties to issues revolving around Cerberus, generational conflicts, and so forth are enormous...
Tali is quite well developed already, sure... she's not exactly the most complicated character design but then she's young and younger characters tend to be a bit simpler. (She's 22 in ME1 and 24 in ME2, which may actually have an effective age that's younger or older then that depending on Quarian physiology and psychology). Ultimately Tali and Legion are at least as important if not more important then Mordin or Wrex.
Wrex and Grunt represent the two ends of Krogan society. Wrex is old, wise, and intelligent. Grunt is a 16 year old with anger management issues. Mordin is a guilt ridden old scientist. Are they interesting? Yes. Are they characters that people can be as easily emotionally invested in as Tali or Garrus? Not really. Tali and Quarians overall are designed as a sort of Woobie, if you're unfamiliar with the term I suggest tvtropes.org to understand. It's hard to beat a woobie for emotional investment.
Another angle to consider is that the characters are also representative of sides to issues that are flashpoints in this final chapter.
Conflict 1: Geth - Quarian Conflict
Quarian Side - Represented by Tali'Zorah
Geth Side - Represented by Legion
Conflict 2: Krogan Genophage
Krogan Side - Represented by Wrex and Wreav
Salarian Side - Represented by Mordin
Repercussions - Represented by Grunt
I could go on... the number of characters with ties to issues revolving around Cerberus, generational conflicts, and so forth are enormous...
#9
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:29
-Skorpious-
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I still think Tali should have been an NPC since ME2. Why? Tali's incredible engineering expertise and familiarity with the Normandy's design (do you honestly trust Cerberus, a group of relative strangers, to install hardware that your very life depends on?) is too much of an asset to risk by repeatedly throwing her in combat situations where characters like Grunt, Garrus or Jacob are better suited for anyways.
Regardless, Joker is proof that NPC's can be incredibly popular with fans, so Tali being a permanent fixture on the Normandy as lead engineer is not a horrible fate for her character in my opinion.
Regardless, Joker is proof that NPC's can be incredibly popular with fans, so Tali being a permanent fixture on the Normandy as lead engineer is not a horrible fate for her character in my opinion.
#10
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:33
StellarMagic
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That's an interesting idea actually... but then there are ground-side combat situations where a field engineer would be invaluable. Mordin could easily be considered a character that could have had a similar posting but both Tali and Mordin have too much combat experience to really warrant being restricted to just shipboard operations.
#11
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:37
CroGamer002
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-Skorpious- wrote...
I still think Tali should have been an NPC since ME2. Why? Tali's incredible engineering expertise and familiarity with the Normandy's design (do you honestly trust Cerberus, a group of relative strangers, to install hardware that your very life depends on?) is too much of an asset to risk by repeatedly throwing her in combat situations where characters like Grunt, Garrus or Jacob are better suited for anyways.
Regardless, Joker is proof that NPC's can be incredibly popular with fans, so Tali being a permanent fixture on the Normandy as lead engineer is not a horrible fate for her character in my opinion.
How many tech experts we have that are experienced in combat?
Only Legion, oh wait there's no dossier from Illusive Man on Legion.
#12
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:48
GipsyDangeresque
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I think Tali fills a squadmate role best, and admirably so. I mean, she's considered a genius mechanic even among her people, and the only real competition she has in that skill is a world-class thief who's never been caught- so it's not like her skills and contributions to the team are to be disputed.
It's not like everyone is fighting because they have nothing better to do, you could come up with a reason for every squadmate to be doing something other than serving on the Normandy. That argument works as easily against every other "more interesting" character on average as equally as it would work against Tali's return.
The only real reason you have is that Tali is not an interesting enough character for you. She's struggling with her prejudice against the Geth being challenged as the plot of the trilogy moves along, and it will be incredibly interesting to see her end up on the other side of the spectrum as the plot comes to a close. Maybe even defending the Geth from the Quarian admirals that would rather have war?
That'll be an interesting character examination in it's own right- what happens when it comes down to it and the interests of stopping the Reapers and helping Shepard conflict with that of aiding the Fleet and loyalty to it's cause alone implied therein. What side will Tali choose? Are the two of you in love? Is Tali completely exiled, or still a member in good standing of the fleet? Did she come to an understanding with Legion when her crisis point occurred around the Migrant Fleet data, or has that argument colored her viewpoint on the situation for better or for worse?
All of these things could move her character into very different directions, and all of them hinge around what will probably be one of the larger missions and conflicts in the game. Tali's reason for being with you is loyalty... IF she is truly loyal.
I would say that right now, the most likely outcome for ME3 is that Tali is only a permanent squadmate in ME3... if you've played your cards right. Other paths might lead her elsewhere- but there will be at least one in which she is fiercely loyal to you and also unable to do anything important politically within the fleet- If she is alive, and romanced, but exiled.
It's not like everyone is fighting because they have nothing better to do, you could come up with a reason for every squadmate to be doing something other than serving on the Normandy. That argument works as easily against every other "more interesting" character on average as equally as it would work against Tali's return.
The only real reason you have is that Tali is not an interesting enough character for you. She's struggling with her prejudice against the Geth being challenged as the plot of the trilogy moves along, and it will be incredibly interesting to see her end up on the other side of the spectrum as the plot comes to a close. Maybe even defending the Geth from the Quarian admirals that would rather have war?
That'll be an interesting character examination in it's own right- what happens when it comes down to it and the interests of stopping the Reapers and helping Shepard conflict with that of aiding the Fleet and loyalty to it's cause alone implied therein. What side will Tali choose? Are the two of you in love? Is Tali completely exiled, or still a member in good standing of the fleet? Did she come to an understanding with Legion when her crisis point occurred around the Migrant Fleet data, or has that argument colored her viewpoint on the situation for better or for worse?
All of these things could move her character into very different directions, and all of them hinge around what will probably be one of the larger missions and conflicts in the game. Tali's reason for being with you is loyalty... IF she is truly loyal.
I would say that right now, the most likely outcome for ME3 is that Tali is only a permanent squadmate in ME3... if you've played your cards right. Other paths might lead her elsewhere- but there will be at least one in which she is fiercely loyal to you and also unable to do anything important politically within the fleet- If she is alive, and romanced, but exiled.
Modifié par Atemeus, 19 juillet 2011 - 12:49 .
#13
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:48
Sshodan
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Hmm... I think I wouldn't mind Tail being our crew engineer in ME3 - she may join for a mission or two where her expertise or connections are need, much like Liara in DLC. But since she will be on the ship it means we'll get to interact with her fully 
#14
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:50
-Skorpious-
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StellarMagic wrote...
That's an interesting idea actually... but then there are ground-side combat situations where a field engineer would be invaluable. Mordin could easily be considered a character that could have had a similar posting but both Tali and Mordin have too much combat experience to really warrant being restricted to just shipboard operations.
Tali would have had more than her hands full in ME2 by simply installing all of the SR2's upgrades. In fact, if she didn't volunteer for the SM she would likely sue Shepard for unfair working conditions.
And in response to the bolded text above, characters like Legion, Garrus and even Miranda should have suffcient training to deal with the duties required of a field engineer, whose main goal (if I understand correctly) is installing and maintaining active equipment; such a task hardly requires a technological genius such as Tali.
#15
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:50
Dandynermite
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Why can't she be like Gabby and the other engineers, just sit and chat...
She's deadwood, been sitting in my party since ME1, never used her, never even spent her talent points, just sitting there... in this case, I shall kill her in ME2, just to spite Bioware
She's deadwood, been sitting in my party since ME1, never used her, never even spent her talent points, just sitting there... in this case, I shall kill her in ME2, just to spite Bioware
#16
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:51
Shepard Lives
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The characters I like are awesome, and should have entire games dedicated to them.
The characters you like are boring, inconsistent and ugly and I went out of my way to get them killed in the suicide mission.
True story.
The characters you like are boring, inconsistent and ugly and I went out of my way to get them killed in the suicide mission.
True story.
#17
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:55
S.A.K
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She'll be permanent as anyone can be. Casey already said that and I am happy.MACharlie1 wrote...
I don't think she'll be permanent. Squad selection is working differently this time around and I think only Vega and VS will be permanent with even Garrus, Tali and Liara going off to do something else.
#18
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:56
Vamp44
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El Chupacabra wrote...
Didn't realise being new meant I wasn't allowed to voice my opinion.
Don't worry if you make a thread that goes against others interests you're immediately labelled as a troll.
________________________________________________________________
But, I agree with you.
Modifié par Vamp44, 19 juillet 2011 - 01:14 .
#19
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:57
Bogsnot1
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El Chupacabra wrote...
AlexMBrennan wrote...
Try again in a few months (i.e. a few months after signing up) - creating a somewhat ... inflammatory threat like this 5 minutes after joining might be considered indicative of troll activity.Recent Activity
Didn't realise being new meant I wasn't allowed to voice my opinion.
Signing up a fresh account, not registering your copy of the game on the forums, andthen posting an imflammatory thread simply gets you labelled as a troll.
Fail troll is still fail.
#20
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 12:58
l DryIce l
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Shepard Lives wrote...
The characters I like are awesome, and should have entire games dedicated to them.
The characters you like are boring, inconsistent and ugly and I went out of my way to get them killed in the suicide mission.
True story.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
/thread
#21
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 01:18
StellarMagic
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Honestly... when I have them Garrus and Tali tend to be my go to team both in ME1 and ME2. They're both almost blindingly loyal (Garrus in an almost mentor - mentee role with Tali being more of an impressionable youth role), much like Chakwas and Joker so I just gravitate toward them.
Ashley always struck me as too prejudicial to really be worth keeping on a team with multiple aliens. Her perspective on aliens actually struck me as being very much in line with Cerberus as a whole. Aliens aren't bad, so long as they work in conjunction with humanity's interests. She's not racist so much as putting a lot more allegiance to species then I think is healthy. Ironically she's also almost always my VS. Funny that. Actually I just always rescue the person with the STG. Saving more than one life makes the most sense and somebody has to have a deadman's switch for that bomb.
Kaidan just seems flat, much like Jacob in that regard. Miranda is a precision guided bomb into uncanny valley. Mordin and Wrex are awesomely written. In one case we see the trouble conscious of one who believed that the ends justify the means. In the other we see the best a species has to offer... a paragon of the Krogan if you will. Thane... is just a bit to stereotypical for his own good. Jack is angst taken to 11 or 12. Grunt is the stereotype that Mordin argues about the Krogan given form. Samara is black and white morality given flesh and blood and Liara...
Liara is a naive woman turned into a classic broken bird that only starts to heal in the DLC. Kasumi and Zaeed are great, better written then any of the other human characters but don't even have conversation trees... ironic that.
Ashley always struck me as too prejudicial to really be worth keeping on a team with multiple aliens. Her perspective on aliens actually struck me as being very much in line with Cerberus as a whole. Aliens aren't bad, so long as they work in conjunction with humanity's interests. She's not racist so much as putting a lot more allegiance to species then I think is healthy. Ironically she's also almost always my VS. Funny that. Actually I just always rescue the person with the STG. Saving more than one life makes the most sense and somebody has to have a deadman's switch for that bomb.
Kaidan just seems flat, much like Jacob in that regard. Miranda is a precision guided bomb into uncanny valley. Mordin and Wrex are awesomely written. In one case we see the trouble conscious of one who believed that the ends justify the means. In the other we see the best a species has to offer... a paragon of the Krogan if you will. Thane... is just a bit to stereotypical for his own good. Jack is angst taken to 11 or 12. Grunt is the stereotype that Mordin argues about the Krogan given form. Samara is black and white morality given flesh and blood and Liara...
Liara is a naive woman turned into a classic broken bird that only starts to heal in the DLC. Kasumi and Zaeed are great, better written then any of the other human characters but don't even have conversation trees... ironic that.
#22
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 01:38
TheAwesomologist
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Without even touching the troll-ability of this thread lets take a look at Tali mechanically. She is an Engineer. In ME 1 that meant some handy skills at your disposal. Versus the Geth she was an absolute asset. In ME 2 she maintains her hacking ability and the Chiktika the Combat Drone was an absolute asset to all my characters. For my Vanguard the drone would cause enemies to bunch up and expose themselves, perfect for a shockwave or a charge. The drone will force enemies out of cover which was perfect for my Infiltrator. Worried about husks? Drop a drone to distract a few then when it dies it blows up taking the husks with it.
You can hate on the character all you guys want, but even if you completely ignored the story Tali is still a very useful squadmate.
You can hate on the character all you guys want, but even if you completely ignored the story Tali is still a very useful squadmate.
#23
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 01:39
Zebron is reaL
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#24
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 01:44
Youknow
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So what's in the package? Anything good?
#25
Posté 19 juillet 2011 - 01:45
Ieldra
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I like Tali, but if she's permanent and Miranda is not Bioware won't hear the end of my complaints.
I think Liara and Miranda are the LIs with the most story potential and should have the biggest roles. Followed by Tali. That may not always go hand in hand with presence on the team, but I would want neither of them to be relegated to a one-mission presence. Do that and I'll rant away along with the respective character's fans.
Unfortunately Miranda is the only one I need to worry about. Grrrr.
I think Liara and Miranda are the LIs with the most story potential and should have the biggest roles. Followed by Tali. That may not always go hand in hand with presence on the team, but I would want neither of them to be relegated to a one-mission presence. Do that and I'll rant away along with the respective character's fans.
Unfortunately Miranda is the only one I need to worry about. Grrrr.
Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 juillet 2011 - 01:46 .
