167 réponses à ce sujet

[xentar]

RPGamer13 wrote...

I like to know that there's a reason for killing every enemy.

What reason? There shouldn't be anything other than them having a desire to kill you.

[xentar]

CannotCompute wrote...

who would know wrote...

CannotCompute wrote...

XP gains for successful hacks and kills stimulate me to explore more thoroughly. That's why I prefer point gathering the way ME1 handled it.

Yes, but there are problems with per-kill experience. Stealth, any tactic that skips enemies, would take a hit. These play styles should be just as valid as any.

I doubt you will be able to stealth skip many encounters, mainly because of the short duration of the Cloak ability and the fact that you're (pretty much) always accompanied by 2 squadmates that will shoot at things. Also, a lot of times you have to kill enemies to be able to advance into another section of a level. Stealth kills (in ME2) are also pretty tempting to make, because of the damage multiplier.

So I personally don't think Infiltrators will be disadvantaged by implementing a XP per-kill/hack system.

There could be more Arrival rescue style missions. Covert ops achievement would be disadvantageous to get in a XP per kill system.

Modifié par xentar, 20 juillet 2011 - 02:26 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Xp per kill and per action please. I prefer the way ME1 did after missions, more classy while end screen mission while isn't really that game breaking for me and I won't mind that much. I'd prefer a ME1 style and then the "press f to get the hell out/end mission".

[AlanC9]

Lumikki wrote...

If possible, no exp at all would be best. Exp's has has no game world meaning, because exp's only reason exist is control progress of character through story and gameplay. If player needs exp for some other reasons, they are playing these games for wrong reasons. Treating ME serie like arcade shooter or grind fest power leveling RPG is just sad.

I strongly support this, but it's unlikely to happen. The current bunch of "RPG fans" are a pretty weak bunch and need their pellets of rat chow to keep running the maze. I was making fun of Gatt9 earlier, but he's actually typical.

[xentar]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Xp per kill and per action please. I prefer the way ME1 did after missions, more classy while end screen mission while isn't really that game breaking for me and I won't mind that much. I'd prefer a ME1 style and then the "press f to get the hell out/end mission".

So, how do you detect avoiding enemies?

[sp0ck 06]

No XP per kill, but PLEASE no "Mission Complete" screens either.

I'd like to see us get XP for activities also. Like, unlocking codex entires (as in ME1) should grant a small XP bonus. It makes sense and adds some incentive to find out everything you can about the characters/environments.

[Feanor_II]

¿For ME? I would preffer like in ME1, but it doesn't bother me if it is like in ME"

[Shepard the Leper]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

No XP per kill, but PLEASE no "Mission Complete" screens either.

I'd like to see us get XP for activities also. Like, unlocking codex entires (as in ME1) should grant a small XP bonus. It makes sense and adds some incentive to find out everything you can about the characters/environments.

Finding out more about the places you go to and the folks you meet along the way should not be about XP. Making those places and folks worthy to investigate is what the incentive should be about. Not boring grinding to get those couple extra XP points.

[Beerfish]

I liked ME1 method better.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

xentar wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Xp per kill and per action please. I prefer the way ME1 did after missions, more classy while end screen mission while isn't really that game breaking for me and I won't mind that much. I'd prefer a ME1 style and then the "press f to get the hell out/end mission".

So, how do you detect avoiding enemies?

What?

[Virginian]

If I earned experience during gameplay I should get that experience then and there.

The only experience you should get after a mission is over is when the mission ends and immediately goes to cutscene, then you should get experience after the fact.

[Shepard the Leper]

Virginian wrote...

If I earned experience during gameplay I should get that experience then and there.

And then what?

The point of XP is not about getting points. The purpose of any XP system is to unlock and/or improve skills. The only thing that matters are those times when you have gained enough to gain a level. IMO it's pointless and even immersion breaking to level up mid combat, so if leveling up is considered to be something to do outside of combat there is no point whatsoever to reward player for each kill or action.

[xentar]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

xentar wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Xp per kill and per action please. I prefer the way ME1 did after missions, more classy while end screen mission while isn't really that game breaking for me and I won't mind that much. I'd prefer a ME1 style and then the "press f to get the hell out/end mission".

So, how do you detect avoiding enemies?

What?

The idea is: if you want XP for actions, it would be most reasonable  to try and balance the rewards to allow for various playstyles. Avoiding enemies is an action, sometimes quite a bit more tricky that killing them outright. How do you detect and reward it?

[Dean_the_Young]

There's also the frustration of the fact that ME3 will see Shepard have non-team allies on the battlefield at various points.

Who here wants to be in a position where we WANT to kill the STG fighting with us so that they don't steal the points by shooting Cerberus?

[Reever]

You all have some good points, but there´s still a sense of satisfaction and one of achieving something when you level up in the middle of a fight!

[RyuGuitarFreak]

xentar wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

xentar wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Xp per kill and per action please. I prefer the way ME1 did after missions, more classy while end screen mission while isn't really that game breaking for me and I won't mind that much. I'd prefer a ME1 style and then the "press f to get the hell out/end mission".

So, how do you detect avoiding enemies?

What?

The idea is: if you want XP for actions, it would be most reasonable  to try and balance the rewards to allow for various playstyles. Avoiding enemies is an action, sometimes quite a bit more tricky that killing them outright. How do you detect and reward it?

I was referencing ME1 and other RPGs, which can sometimes reward xp foi dialogue, getting information, hacking, etc. And rewarding for different playstyles, Deus Ex Human Revolution seems to do it well. BUT, stealth is a big thing in that game as ME isn't and there's never been a way to avoid enemies out of dialogue, except Arrival, which an exception and I don't think they're going to really introduce stealth elements besides the going cover to cover avoiding detection and stealth kill, mainly because of AI from squadmates and the style doesn't fit ME combat. Focus on stealth elements could bring a big design problem.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 20 juillet 2011 - 06:37 .

[Core_Commander]

Please no XP per kill... avoiding avoidable combat should reward the player, not make him feel like he's missing out "on sweet XP from killing those dudes".

"I'd best get out of mako for the last few shots for XP bonus"... please, no more.

[DragonRageGT]

Many games have different system and they work fine. I like ME1 system but it does cause me to go kill Tresher Maws on Foot on Insanity... and everything else really, because of the double xp than killing with the Mako.

I like ME2 system as well and I can keep Haestrom up for hours on Insanity since there's infinite Geth spawn for some parts, just because it's a hell of fun!

I love Gothic's system where we need to find a trainer and learn the skills from them or TW1&2 where we need to meditate to level up and that's not going to happen on dangerous areas.

I like DX:HR system as well. Software upgrades to improve the Augmentations is a cool way to level up! It gives 10 extra pts per enemy if we knock them out i/o killing but it makes no difference. And extra XP for hacking i/o using codes/passwords but I only do it because the hacking game is so cool and I usually go for hacking upgrades

Heck, it would be so boring if every game used the same system...

[Matchy Pointy]

I like the ME2 system in theory as it leads to more then "kill them all" mentality.

[Trinity66]

Core_Commander wrote...

Please no XP per kill... avoiding avoidable combat should reward the player, not make him feel like he's missing out "on sweet XP from killing those dudes".

"I'd best get out of mako for the last few shots for XP bonus"... please, no more.

So you want to avoid an enemy and at the and of mission still get same xp as people who will kill, hack, loot, find etc - all that there is to kill, hack, loot, find ? lol

And as for mako makes sense, since in real life it would be harder to take down an enemy on foot then in the tank, dont you think?  So more xp for killin on foot. I like it that way, can't belive most here prefer ME2 system, but hey, everyone has their own opinion.

[Xeranx]

Trinity66 wrote...

Core_Commander wrote...

Please no XP per kill... avoiding avoidable combat should reward the player, not make him feel like he's missing out "on sweet XP from killing those dudes".

"I'd best get out of mako for the last few shots for XP bonus"... please, no more.

So you want to avoid an enemy and at the and of mission still get same xp as people who will kill, hack, loot, find etc - all that there is to kill, hack, loot, find ? lol

It actually makes sense.  Alpha Protocol recognizes stealthy behavior.  Responses from people who work with you are reflected based on how you decide to operate.  And let's be honest, being stealthy is far harder to accomplish than gunning anyone down in your way.  Hitman works the same way though the rewards are more money instead of XP.

And as for mako makes sense, since in real life it would be harder to take down an enemy on foot then in the tank, dont you think?  So more xp for killin on foot. I like it that way, can't belive most here prefer ME2 system, but hey, everyone has their own opinion.

I agree with the part in bold.

[Sidney]

Trinity66 wrote...

So you want to avoid an enemy and at the and of mission still get same xp as people who will kill, hack, loot, find etc - all that there is to kill, hack, loot, find ? lol

Your mission in to take a hill in the Army.

Method #1 is to drop  a massive barrage on the hill, storm up the slope and kill everyything on the hill wearing the other uniform.
Method 2 is to maneuver your force so that the opfor on the hill is forced to withdraw.

Why is #1 (your version) better than the latter? Easy answer it isn't but in your method I am rewarded for a brute force solution. In your solution you are rewarded even if you fail to achieve your mission - look Colonel I killed 100 enemy soliders but failed to take the hill! Can I level up now?

People persist in this odd faith that killing some random orc/space pirate/droid is something that should be rewarded. Why not just reward your for walking? Both have the same relavance to what you are there to actually do they are a means to achieve an end and that end is completing the mission. 

Looting and hacking are their own reward (money and tech).

[Sailears]

I don't want xp for every kill, locker opened, or codex entry gained. Combat is more of a chore because you're always thinking about maximising xp, and not simply enjoying it - a flaw in ME1.

But also having a huge chunk of xp at the end of each mission is very crude.

I'd like to have smaller "bitesize" chunks of xp, gained from completing small objectives/misisons, continually throughout the game. This lessens the need for a fully modular mission structure, which for me broke up ME2 too much.

Updates can be added to the journal for each stage of an assignment, showing the xp gained, and then ticked off as they are completed (or the entire string of objectives comprising a mission are completed) - nicely stealthed unlike the mission complete screen, and payout in ME2.

Modifié par Curunen, 20 juillet 2011 - 10:20 .

[Gatt9]

AlanC9 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

If possible, no exp at all would be best. Exp's has has no game world meaning, because exp's only reason exist is control progress of character through story and gameplay. If player needs exp for some other reasons, they are playing these games for wrong reasons. Treating ME serie like arcade shooter or grind fest power leveling RPG is just sad.

I strongly support this, but it's unlikely to happen. The current bunch of "RPG fans" are a pretty weak bunch and need their pellets of rat chow to keep running the maze. I was making fun of Gatt9 earlier, but he's actually typical.

Alternatively,  you could both just go play Adventure Games,  they're exacty what you're describing...