167 réponses à ce sujet

[Lumikki]

I want no exp at all or hide hole exp system so I never see it. Exp has absolute zero meaning to me, so seeing some useless numbers flying around is impression breaker. It would be same for me as just have randomly some balloons flying in screen.

[Varen Spectre]

Firstly, I really like XP system in general. Despite some details, which may not make sense in some games (I kill enemy / accomplish something  with one ability, yet I can improve completely different one), I perceive it as an excellent mechanism which connects or at least tries to make some connection between the ability to continually customize and "upgrade" my character and my ingame actions (and vice versa).

Therefore I think that this mechanism in itself refines and enriches gameplay (and thus entire game) and I would strongly prefer to keep it regardless of its form.

As for the question whether XP per kill / per action or XP only after complete mission... I understand and can relate to both systems depending on how a game can capitalize on them and how it can avoid their drawbacks.

Now in Mass Effect's case, based on my previous experience and my assumptions (you know the saying aboutassuming so take it with grain of salt:P) about Mass Effect 3, I would say:

- bearing in mind that Mass Effect 2 did not, except for very rare occasions, support multiple ways how to accomplish a mission and always forced me to fight my way through, and I somehow don't see this changing except for few occasions...
- bearing in mind that enemies were in all / most of the missions positioned in such way, that it was practically impossible to avoid them anyway and I don't see this changing except maybe for few sections...
- bea... ehm... you know the pattern... that Mass Effect 2 had very few locations with respawning enemies (correct me if I am wrong but I remeber maybe two...), so some kind of active "grinding" was IMO really hard and extremely bothersome...
- and since I personally found, expecially during my later playthroughs, some sections to be quite tiring and monotonous due to large number of similar fights with similar enemies and I kind of "lacked motivation" to fight them apart from games which have XP per kill system (e.g. recent Witcher 2)... now this IMO may actually change thanks to improved combat mechanics but still...

... I personally would prefer inclusion of XP per kill and XP per action (talk your my out of fight, hack something and avoid combat, find alternative route, etc.) in Mass Effect 3 in addition to classic XP after completion of mission. Since XP after mission / objective is a mechanic, that has been tested and proven to be useful and since the main goal of game is to complete the mission not to kill all enemies, I think it should still remain as main source of XP points. But I support addition of XP per kill in order to increase motivation to fight and XP per action in order to increase motivation to explore and experiment (if there is any room for it).

Modifié par Varen Spectre, 21 juillet 2011 - 04:05 .

[Someone With Mass]

Or they could just let each power have their own experience system, so they'll be better the more you use them and the character gets his/her own level system, with which they can unlock more powers with.

I dunno. Don't really care either way, either.

[The Spamming Troll]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

A fairly minor reason I would like XP per kill is because paragon actions would result in less XP--less enemy-killing, after all. I'm a paragon myself, but i think it would give more...meaning to the choice. Admittedly, not much, but some.

somehow, infiltrators that infiltrate and dont get XP for kill would get XP for doing something else i guess. not really sure what, but thats not my job.

[Siven80]

Until i played ME2 and DA2 i dont think i ever played a game that rewarded XP per encounter/mission.

And now i do prefer that design over per kill as depending on the game and encounter design, it can be possible to finish a mission/segment/encounter or what have you in other ways like stealth rather than just combat and still gain the XP, which is imo a great design and idea.

[Darth Wraith]

I like my XP spread out through a mission, not allocated in one lump at the end. And I'd rather see XP awarded for completing specific goals, not for every enemy killed.

[Trinity66]

Sidney wrote...

Trinity66 wrote...

So you want to avoid an enemy and at the and of mission still get same xp as people who will kill, hack, loot, find etc - all that there is to kill, hack, loot, find ? lol

Your mission in to take a hill in the Army.

Method #1 is to drop  a massive barrage on the hill, storm up the slope and kill everyything on the hill wearing the other uniform.
Method 2 is to maneuver your force so that the opfor on the hill is forced to withdraw.

Why is #1 (your version) better than the latter? Easy answer it isn't but in your method I am rewarded for a brute force solution. In your solution you are rewarded even if you fail to achieve your mission - look Colonel I killed 100 enemy soliders but failed to take the hill! Can I level up now?

People persist in this odd faith that killing some random orc/space pirate/droid is something that should be rewarded. Why not just reward your for walking? Both have the same relavance to what you are there to actually do they are a means to achieve an end and that end is completing the mission. 

Looting and hacking are their own reward (money and tech).

Ok, let's take case in real life. You are soldier on a mission for the first time. You did quite well, but at the end mission unfortunately failed. You wanna tell me you didn't learned anything? You don't learn from your mistakes? You can fail, but that doesn't mean you haven't learned anything in the process.

I'm sorry but I think its ridicoulus if I'm practising for example some breakdance moves, but oh, I gotta wait first till the end of the day, so I can go to bed and then I learn the move I was practising in the morning. 

Andabout your methods... It doesnt matter wich method or tactics is better. I've decided to kill them all, so that mean my job is now harder then if I would just avoid few of them, but thats why I get more xp. I was *practising* longer and harder so I have more experiance! It's just that easy.

Modifié par Trinity66, 21 juillet 2011 - 03:15 .

[Shepard the Leper]

Trinity66 wrote...

Ok, let's take case in real life. You are soldier on a mission for the first time. You did quite well, but at the end mission unfortunately failed. You wanna tell me you didn't learned anything? You don't learn from your mistakes? You can fail, but that doesn't mean you haven't learned anything in the process.

In real life, failing miserably as a soldier means you're death. Dunno about death people, but I doubt they 'learn' from their mistakes.

I'm sorry but I think its ridicoulus if I'm practising for example some breakdance moves, but oh, I gotta wait first till the end of the day, so I can go to bed and then I learn the move I was practising in the morning. 

Andabout your methods... It doesnt matter wich method or tactics is better. I've decided to kill them all, so that mean my job is now harder then if I would just avoid few of them, but thats why I get more xp. I was *practising* longer and harder so I have more experiance! It's just that easy.

I think you missed the point here. The problem is when to reward XP, not about 'learning' anything. Furthermore, it's completely irrelevant whether one gains XP every few seconds, or only once per mission / objective. XP is useless, your character doesn't level up after each and every kill, but only when a certain amount of XP is gathered.

[Trinity66]

XP is useless, your character doesn't level up after each and every kill, but only when a certain amount of XP is gathered.

So, gaining xp at the end of the mission is also useless, since you don't lvl up after each mission, you still need to gather enough xp?

[Trinity66]

Shepard the Leper wrote...

Trinity66 wrote...

Ok, let's take case in real life. You are soldier on a mission for the first time. You did quite well, but at the end mission unfortunately failed. You wanna tell me you didn't learned anything? You don't learn from your mistakes? You can fail, but that doesn't mean you haven't learned anything in the process.

In real life, failing miserably as a soldier means you're death. Dunno about death people, but I doubt they 'learn' from their mistakes.

I doubt theres only two options like you said: either successfull mission = alive  or  mission failed = death
*Mission failed, we couldn't take hostage alive.* Just for example. 

Modifié par Trinity66, 21 juillet 2011 - 06:47 .

[Repearized Miranda]

 After missions for me. If they could somehow intelligently implement both, I'd be okay with that, but it's after a misson is done for me. I feel rewarded with that system.

[AlanC9]

Lumikki wrote...

I want no exp at all or hide hole exp system so I never see it. Exp has absolute zero meaning to me, so seeing some useless numbers flying around is impression breaker. It would be same for me as just have randomly some balloons flying in screen.

We're on the same page here, I think. .XP is a game function and shouldn't intrude on character decisions, which should be strictly role-playing.

Having said that, CRPGs without the XP mechanism haven't worked all that well, as far as I've seen. The TES games are pretty bad, for instance. GCD cleans up some of the mess in Morrowind, but the basic system is so awful that it can't be fixed.

Modifié par AlanC9, 21 juillet 2011 - 09:46 .

[N7KennyXD]

I'd rather recieve XP with each kill (ME1 style). It gives more of an accomplished feeling. Like, you killed an enemy that was a threat to you and your team and you'd get rewarded for it. I'd don't want to level up after every mission just cause I completed the mission.

But that's just my two cents.

[Sidney]

[quote]AlanC9 wrote...

I want no exp at all or hide hole exp system so I never see it. Exp has absolute zero meaning to me, so seeing some useless numbers flying around is impression breaker. It would be same for me as just have randomly some balloons flying in screen.[/quote]

We're on the same page here, I think. .XP is a game function and shouldn't intrude on character decisions, which should be strictly role-playing.

Having said that, CRPGs without the XP mechanism haven't worked all that well, as far as I've seen. The TES games are pretty bad, for instance. GCD cleans up some of the mess in Morrowind, but the basic system is so awful that it can't be fixed.[/quote]

XP aren't a bad way to solve the "progress" problem and the Oblivion system is a great example of an awful system.

I think the XP per action has always been a flaw. In DAO you are sent to eliminate Jarvia. There's a side passage with some meaningless baddies down it but, as the XP ****s most of us are, we all go down that hall and slaughter anything that moves. Why that matters is beyond me. Kill 11 Carta member or kill 12 doesn't matter to Harrowmont or Bhelen. If you are sent to exterminate the Carta great, then XP per kill works but other than that is creates a bloodbath mentality that doesn't make any sense.

[Masquerade_Assassin]

I like the ME1 approach (never got to play the game but sounds like a great idea)

EXP is Experience. With every enemy killed Shepard gains a little. I equate leveling up to learning something new that you can do while in a battle. Under that idea, you would want to level up mid battle. Perhaps an enemy is giving you a hard time. You pick off one of his friends and you realize that you've leveled up. That level up unlocks an ability for you to use. This ability (in turn) broadens your battle tactics and allows you to fight enemies in a different way.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I loved the way Oblivion and Fallout rewarded one for sneaking past a horde to get in and get out. Or for assassinations. You scored points for each second you weren't detected. In ME you're a team of three. I would think it would be in your best interest to not have every enemy in the universe descend down on you. In ME1 you had infinite ammo. In ME2 you don't. If you're a sniper type most of the ammo drops would be right in front of the enemy not in front of you.

I prefer to go in, get the job done, then go home. I don't see a point in having to make sure every single enemy is dead. I preferred ME2's experience system. I've been playing RPGs since before many of you were born. The biggest gripe is the level grinding that usually has nothing to do with the story.

The little side missions give a little bit of experience reward. Fine.

ME1 got a bit ridiculous. More credits than you could spend. After a while it got to the point of you just convert everything you found into omnigel, and slapped omnigel on everything. I never bothered killing the Thresher Maw on foot -- that to me would be stupid -- no offense to anyone who did. Why was it necessary to kill every single geth to get to Peak 15? It wasn't. Or to the defeat the geth on Feros. It wasn't. Or to get to Liara? Or for that matter the Conduit? I drove past most of them in the Mako (or ran them over). Got the mission done. Went home.

So ME2 experience system for me. The pop up "Press B to End Mission" didn't detract from the RPG part. I still know I'm playing a game even without that.

[MarinCsplit]

I prefer the ME1 xp system