160 réponses à ce sujet

[George-Kinsill]

@ Everyone saying that Reapers should have just used the Alpha relay immedietely when they found out the Keepers went rogue:

You have to remember that the Reapers are dreadnought class starships to say the least, and your average fuel doesn't work for them. Big ships require fuel made from solar panels orbiting giant blue stars, which are not that common, have short life spans, and then turn into black holes or gamma ray bursts. The Krogan lost a major part of their fleet in the krogan rebellions due to in large part a bunch of Spectres blowing up the solar panel stations orbiting their blue stars.

If Reapers are dependent on this type of fuel, a surprise attack is a near necessity as flying for several years to the Milky way would deplete their reserves presumably, and give organics at least some type of warning that Reapers are coming, possibly enough to scuttle the energy stations around these blue giants.

This would be a major inconveinience, possibly not enough to end all Reapers entirely, but possibly result in a few casualties, which would be unfortunate because it's apparently not that common for a species to be able to ascend to Reaperhood, as only humanity is a viable candidate out of all the organics in the galaxy, and the Protheans 50,000 years ago were not good enough. So, in an effort to keep casualties to a minnimum, the Alpha Relay should only be used when the citadel option is for certain not possible.

[shepskisaac]

iakus wrote...

One way or another. yeah.  I just don't see why start now, and risk drawing attention to yourself before the invasion could properly begin.  Which is exactly what ended up happening.

Posted my few ideas couple posts above why start before the invasion

iakus wrote...
But that's got nothing to do with how the Reapers return, except for the arguements that the Reaper was to be a new vanguard 

Can't really se it being a new vanguard. The previous one exposed himself. For all Reapers know, the galactic civilization could be already 100% aware of everything, and even setting a trap for the Reapers. Trying the same plan wouldn't be wise at all.

[Inutaisho7996]

Flying billions of light years is a waste of energy. Why do that when you could hibernate a little longer and wait for your contingency plans to work, and then use the Alpha Relay as a last resort?

[Bluko]

wizardryforever wrote...

This is a major plot point that hasn't really been answered satisfactorily.  Why did the Reapers pick now to attack?  Why is our technology "ripe" for harvesting now, and not 100 years ago or 100 in the future?  No one really knows (in universe).  I think this, along with the Reapers' motivations, will be revealed in ME3.

I hope so. I still don't see why the purpose of the Human Reaper had to be made a mystery for ME3 to answer. Can I at least know what it is I'm destroying, I mean besides that it is a Baby Human Reaper? Also if it turns out the Human Reaper had some super special purpose I'm going to have a hard time buying that. I.E. The Human Reaper was going to be the most powerful Reaper evar!
<_<

Shepard:"Why u build dis?"
Harbinger:"LOL nOOb!"

Seriously that's basically how ME2 ended. I'm glad the Reapers don't just tell us their plans straight out, but is Shepard not capable of doing anything but blowing stuff up? I dunno I just dislike that ME2 didn't really offer any answers to the questions I had. I really do not like the "To be continued.." ending of ME2. It's the reason I was compelled to come to these forums in the first place. I thought had missed something.

ME2 feels like a recap for everything players should have been able to find out in ME1. It's too bad I likely won't be able to import an ME1 Shepard to ME3 without trudging thru ME2's filler. I sure as heck wouldn't mind a comic replacing my decisions from ME2 (also can be easily done via how did the Suicide Mission go?).

Modifié par Bluko, 20 juillet 2011 - 05:49 .

[shepskisaac]

Inutaisho7996 wrote...

Flying billions of light years is a waste of energy. Why do that when you could hibernate a little longer and wait for your contingency plans to work, and then use the Alpha Relay as a last resort?

And let the galactic civilization grow and evolve even higher to a point that could stop the Reapers? That's their entire plan, to attack at the highest evolutionary peak of the galactic civilization that at the same time is not technologically advanced enough to threathen the Reapers. It ain't a big 'window' to attack, and the Reapers seem to be already hunderds years behind the schedule.

Not to mention Sovereign still got exposed. For all Reapers know, the galactic civilization could remember about that for years and just continue to prepare for the invasion and fight the Reapers.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 20 juillet 2011 - 05:52 .

[mauro2222]

marshalleck wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Plan A) Rachni Wars
Plan Saren & Geth
Plan C) Collectors and Human Reaper
Plan D) Zerg Rush

Theyre running out of options.

That all still begs the question: 

When Citadel was first discovered unresponsive, why not

A) Fly back to Alpha relay
Use Alpha relay to jump directly to the Citadel
C) Annihilate unsuspecting Citadel defenses, proceed with extinction



Answer: because in Mass Effect, it's not that Shepard is awesome, so much as it is the antagonists in the series are all woefully incompetent. Even the Reapers. 

Sovereign still has to investigate why the citadel is not working at all, he/she/it needs to see if it is some kind of weapon that could be a threat to his/her/their species. And we actually don´t know how the reapers transport themselves from dark space to the citadel... if it is because they have a mass relay, leaving the mass relay behind and travel to the galaxy with FTL when they actually have a more quick option is stupid.

[Pax of Doom]

Il Divo wrote...

iakus wrote...

Now this doesn't take into account the Reaper the Collectors were building.  I have no clue how that's supposed to fit into anything.  Nor do I know what the Reapers are going to do about the Citadel once they do arrive.  I assume that will be covered in ME3.   For all we know, it's already under siege or fallen by the time Earth is attacked.

The problem with the human reaper is that we don't have a clear time table for when Arrival starts, since it can be played at any point during the main quest. With the reaper itself, the new vanguard theory works pretty well, since it would offer the Reapers another opportunity to take the Citadel. Once Shepard ruins the Collectors/Shadowbroker, the Reapers don't really have any options at this point but to go the long way. I'm hoping we get more Reaper conversations with ME3 to find out their plans in full.

Maybe they were building the human Reaper to replace Sovereign, but also take advantage of the dominant species.  They may view humans as the dominant due to Shepard - before the Turians may have been considered, hence indoctrinating Saren.  Perhaps they wanted Shepard's body to resurrect him, so Shepard could be controlled with implants. 

Maybe the Reapers are impatient because, as others said, they're running
out of resources.  Maybe their internal clocks are tied to the amount
of dark energy in the universe, and there seems to be an abundance or
imbalance now (see: Haestrom's sun).  Do
we know for certain that it's every 50,000 years, or is that what the
Protheans assumed, or we assumed since the end of the Prothean era was
50,000 years ago?  Perhaps previous species didn't accelerate as fast, and they hibernated longer, hence the need for Sovereign.

To add something else into the mix: before the end fight in ME1, really pay attention to the fight and what is said.  When Saren is resurrected the voice says "I am Sovereign, and this station is mine".  Why would Saren say that, unless perhaps Sovereign downloaded himself into Saren via the upgrade implants?  If you pay attention throughout the fight, Sovereign weakens as the fight against Saren progresses.  Then, when "Saren" is finally defeated, Sovereign falls off his perch.  Up until this time, all the ships could do nothing against it, yet suddenly it just falls off surrounded by the red lightning, and the fleets easily blow it away.

I can't make the connection, but the last time I replayed that fight, the words struck me, and watching the progress of the battle these things stood out.  A link, for reference.  Sovereign falling off is at 3:30  www.youtube.com/watch

[Savber100]

marshalleck wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Plan A) Rachni Wars
Plan Saren & Geth
Plan C) Collectors and Human Reaper
Plan D) Zerg Rush

Theyre running out of options.

That all still begs the question: 

When Citadel was first discovered unresponsive, why not

A) Fly back to Alpha relay
Use Alpha relay to jump directly to the Citadel
C) Annihilate unsuspecting Citadel defenses, proceed with extinction



Answer: because in Mass Effect, it's not that Shepard is awesome, so much as it is the antagonists in the series are all woefully incompetent. Even the Reapers. 

I believe that the events of Arrival is a buildup for a BIG twist in ME3 and the reason why TIM turned against Shepard. 
Is it possible that the Reapers arriving to the Alpha Relay was a hoax? Can it simply be an illusion created by the Reapers to discredit Shepard on a galactic scale and make him responsible for the death of 300,000 innocents? This might also explain TIM's sudden change of heart towards Shepard. Imagine what the man thought when he heard that Shepard had just blown up a relay and killing 300,000 Batarains, bringing possible war to the Alliance. TIM investigates and concludes that Shepard has come into contact with Object Rho and must have been indoctrinated. Besides all we had were the words of Kenson who was ALREADY indoctrinated to believe that the Reapers were coming. Can a Reaper device plant a lie about their so-called arrival within Kenson to drive Shepard to do what he thought was right when he was only playing into the Reaper's hands all along? 

It's far-fetched but I seriously doubt in writing Arrival, the writers just ignored such an obvious plothole after explaining for the entire first game of the importance of the Citadel. 


But hey... it's soo much easier to assume that the writers for ME are destroying the lore for... w/e reason they have. 

Modifié par Savber100, 20 juillet 2011 - 06:11 .

[pablodurando]

Savber100 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Plan A) Rachni Wars
Plan Saren & Geth
Plan C) Collectors and Human Reaper
Plan D) Zerg Rush

Theyre running out of options.

That all still begs the question: 

When Citadel was first discovered unresponsive, why not

A) Fly back to Alpha relay
Use Alpha relay to jump directly to the Citadel
C) Annihilate unsuspecting Citadel defenses, proceed with extinction



Answer: because in Mass Effect, it's not that Shepard is awesome, so much as it is the antagonists in the series are all woefully incompetent. Even the Reapers. 

I believe that the events of Arrival is a buildup for a BIG twist in ME3 and the reason why TIM turned against Shepard. 
Is it possible that the Reapers arriving to the Alpha Relay was a hoax? Can it simply be an illusion created by the Reapers to discredit Shepard on a galactic scale and make him responsible for the death of 300,000 innocents? This might also explain TIM's sudden change of heart towards Shepard. Imagine what the man thought when he heard that Shepard had just blown up a relay and killing 300,000 Batarains, bringing possible war to the Alliance. TIM investigates and concludes that Shepard has come into contact with Object Rho and must have been indoctrinated. Besides all we had were the words of Kenson who was ALREADY indoctrinated to believe that the Reapers were coming. Can a Reaper device plant a lie about their so-called arrival within Kenson to drive Shepard to do what he thought was right when he was only playing into the Reaper's hands all along? 

It's far-fetched but I seriously doubt in writing Arrival, the writers just ignored such an obvious plothole after explaining for the entire first game of the importance of the Citadel. 


But hey... it's soo much easier to assume that the writers for ME are destroying the lore for... w/e reason they have. 

But when the timer for the arrival hits 0 a cutscene is shown where the Reapers actually invade the galaxy.

[pablodurando]

*ignore this post*

Modifié par pablodurando, 20 juillet 2011 - 06:35 .

[CroGamer002]

I have an explanation for that.

[Rahmiel]

 I've thought about this a bit.  I come across a few more questions.

Who was really in control of the rachni?  Now, I haven't read any of the comics, so perhaps it was discussed there, but nowhere does it explicitly say that sovereign was in control of the rachni.  We also do not know if the rachni were puppets of a reaper (sovereign or other) while that reaper or collector, was in the galaxy or if they were somehow controlled from the great beyond.

Let's not forget, the rachni wars were initiated by salarians opening a mass relay.  I can't remember how long ago the rachni wars were, in reference to ME1 and ME2.  I suppose it could be possible that the rachni found a reaper artifact and that allowed reaper control.  But that doesn't exactly seem like a reaper plan to retake the citadel.

So I'm actually on the fence as to whether or not the rachni wars were an attempt to retake the citadel by a reaper.

From the first novel, Revelation, we learn that Sovereign was actually out floating about orbiting a planet on the edge of geth space.  We do not know from any of the conversations whether he was powered down lying in wait, or legitimately left behind for dead like the defunct reaper you grab the IFF from.

So it could quite possibly be that the reapers have always been making a run for the alpha relay as soon as the signal to the citadel was unresponsive.  Then saren awakens Sovereign and the rest we know.

The answer to why the reapers do not just wait out Shepard's life or 4 more years, is that more Prothean technology may be discovered.  If the Protheans were able to alter the keepers, who knows what else they left behind.  Thanks to Saren and Sovereign we do know they figured out the Protheans altered the keepers  The reapers cannot take any chances and waste any more time.  The Protheans may have left plans behind for a weapon, or how to disguise themselves from the reapers allowing a race or races to exist and gain another 50k years to prepare.. as a reaper, you just cannot take that chance.

Unfortunately, as much as we may think we know.. we don't know any actual specifics.  Rachni were "soured" but by what or whom, we do not know.  How far was the actual control of the Rachni?  Was it direct control or more of an unseen force that made the Rachni favour aggressive action instead?  Without knowing more, we can only assume and that's not good enough for this discussion.

[Savber100]

pablodurando wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

I believe that the events of Arrival is a buildup for a BIG twist in ME3 and the reason why TIM turned against Shepard. 
Is it possible that the Reapers arriving to the Alpha Relay was a hoax? Can it simply be an illusion created by the Reapers to discredit Shepard on a galactic scale and make him responsible for the death of 300,000 innocents? This might also explain TIM's sudden change of heart towards Shepard. Imagine what the man thought when he heard that Shepard had just blown up a relay and killing 300,000 Batarains, bringing possible war to the Alliance. TIM investigates and concludes that Shepard has come into contact with Object Rho and must have been indoctrinated. Besides all we had were the words of Kenson who was ALREADY indoctrinated to believe that the Reapers were coming. Can a Reaper device plant a lie about their so-called arrival within Kenson to drive Shepard to do what he thought was right when he was only playing into the Reaper's hands all along? 

It's far-fetched but I seriously doubt in writing Arrival, the writers just ignored such an obvious plothole after explaining for the entire first game of the importance of the Citadel. 


But hey... it's soo much easier to assume that the writers for ME are destroying the lore for... w/e reason they have. 

But when the timer for the arrival hits 0 a cutscene is shown where the Reapers actually invade the galaxy.

The problem I had with that scene is that all we see are flashes of what we assume is the Reaper invasion. We also see an image of TIM, Ashley, and the crew just standing TOGETHER in front of a Reaper. Honestly, I think Bioware was pulling our legs with this scene. 

[pablodurando]

Savber100 wrote...

pablodurando wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

I believe that the events of Arrival is a buildup for a BIG twist in ME3 and the reason why TIM turned against Shepard. 
Is it possible that the Reapers arriving to the Alpha Relay was a hoax? Can it simply be an illusion created by the Reapers to discredit Shepard on a galactic scale and make him responsible for the death of 300,000 innocents? This might also explain TIM's sudden change of heart towards Shepard. Imagine what the man thought when he heard that Shepard had just blown up a relay and killing 300,000 Batarains, bringing possible war to the Alliance. TIM investigates and concludes that Shepard has come into contact with Object Rho and must have been indoctrinated. Besides all we had were the words of Kenson who was ALREADY indoctrinated to believe that the Reapers were coming. Can a Reaper device plant a lie about their so-called arrival within Kenson to drive Shepard to do what he thought was right when he was only playing into the Reaper's hands all along? 

It's far-fetched but I seriously doubt in writing Arrival, the writers just ignored such an obvious plothole after explaining for the entire first game of the importance of the Citadel. 


But hey... it's soo much easier to assume that the writers for ME are destroying the lore for... w/e reason they have. 

But when the timer for the arrival hits 0 a cutscene is shown where the Reapers actually invade the galaxy.

The problem I had with that scene is that all we see are flashes of what we assume is the Reaper invasion. We also see an image of TIM, Ashley, and the crew just standing TOGETHER in front of a Reaper. Honestly, I think Bioware was pulling our legs with this scene. 

I don't quite follow you.  I saw the scene as the galaxy uniting against the threat, but being too late because of the early Reaper entrance.  I saw that scene as the crew and TIM fighting to together to the death, but failing which by the way I think is represented by the last Kelly scene.

[SkittlesKat96]

 Its because they were running out of energy and they needed to get to the galaxy as soon as they could. Shepard was the only thing that stopped them and he only stopped them just barely, Sovereign's early strike and activation plan should have worked (and it almost did.)

If it DID work then the galaxy would have had a much lesser chance of stopping the Reapers.

EDIT: I agree my explanation is a little bit shifty but I'm sure more will be explained in Mass Effect 3 and maybe some of the Reapers motives will be a bit more clear, for example: Why was the human Reaper so important?

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 20 juillet 2011 - 07:25 .

[Eduadinho]

marshalleck wrote...

Dudeman315 wrote...

Why are reapers so impatient?

Because they're poorly written. There are no good answers to the questions you're asking. Also, be prepared for a bunch of people thinking they're clever coming in here to tell you the Reapers attack the Citadel to cut off the head of galactic government, even though that's not an answer to the question you asked.

Get ready for people like you to complain about things such as this incessantly.

There are reasons and they are as follows
1. Suprise attack.
2. Flying that distance could use up lots of energy.
3. Perhaps they were willing to wait longer if they could have another reaper but they have given up on that idea and decided just to go for the assult instead.

[Dariustwinblade]

You guys can debate all you want my theory is still the most accurate.

Reapers goes into heat every 50,000 years.

They are behind schedual. Due to those peskey ****blocking Protheans.

And like any horny race who is deprived during heat. They are acting irrationally.

They wanted Shepards body for god knows what reason.

When they didn't get him/her. They targeted every human for their DNA.

Also note how Nazarus desperately was sucking the citidel tower.

Conlusion the Reapers are in heat!

Proove me wrong?

[marshalleck]

Mesina2 wrote...

I have an explanation for that.

I can read much faster than you can talk. Waiting for you to get to the point is really annoying, how about a written TLDR TLDW version?

Modifié par marshalleck, 20 juillet 2011 - 07:45 .

[Shepard Lives]

Dudeman315 wrote...

This just bothered me, but why did soverign try to activate the citidel relay at all?  The timeline for the end ME1 to Arrival show no more than 4 years pass before the Reapers would make it to the Alpha Relay.  I really hope we get an answer to why the super intellegent machine race would even try to access the citidel after it didn't work with the signal to the keepers if it only takes 4 years max to manually fly to the galaxy.  Unless they started flying here earlier and took the Dark space relay with them(why?) it really makes no sense to give up the element of surprise when you could have just waited 4 years. And why tip your tentacle with abducting human colonies, Harbringer, when you know you wouldn't finish reaper baby until after your buddies arrive? 

Why are reapers so impatient?

Anthropic principle. There would be no story otherwise. Might as well ask why they don't wait for Shepard to die, thus dramatically reducing the possibility of their asses being kicked and only wasting a mere 70-80 years.

[Someone With Mass]

They simply want to preserve energy by letting their drones do the work for them and see if their secret remained hidden. When none that worked, they started to move to the Alpha relay. Simple.

Yes, this road has bumps in it, but it's not like it's the first time some story in Mass Effect seemed odd.

[Someone With Mass]

Oh, and waiting for the one guy who knows about their existence to die of old age is just stupid, since he can find a weapon to fight them with during that time. And they're vulnerable while in hibernation, as Vigil said.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 20 juillet 2011 - 07:53 .

[Rahmiel]

I don't know positively because there's nothing concrete anywhere, but here are some possible reasons..

Dudeman315 wrote...
This just bothered me, but why did soverign try to activate the citidel relay at all?

To figure out what was wrong with the signal in the first place.  Not sure if the Reapers knew the Protheans were behind their signal not working or not.. but they definitely did not know about the conduit.  They could have speculated that the Protheans were to blame and hence, why Sovereign chose to utilize Saren in the way he did.  Figure out exactly what the other races knew, what the Protheans did, where they left things, etc.

The timeline for the end ME1 to Arrival show no more than 4 years pass before the Reapers would make it to the Alpha Relay.  I really hope we get an answer to why the super intellegent machine race would even try to access the citidel after it didn't work with the signal to the keepers if it only takes 4 years max to manually fly to the galaxy.  Unless they started flying here earlier and took the Dark space relay with them(why?)

You assume the Reapers require a mass relay in order to use the citadel relay.  Remember, the citadel relay is unlike any other relay.  It could be designed so it pulls all the other reapers in from Dark Space or.. wherever they are located in the galaxy.  Again, we don't know.

it really makes no sense to give up the element of surprise when you could have just waited 4 years. And why tip your tentacle with abducting human colonies, Harbringer, when you know you wouldn't finish reaper baby until after your buddies arrive? 

Why are reapers so impatient?

I assume it's easier for them to go about their reaper building process without there being an entire galactic war going on.  The collectors are basically unknown and people had no idea (even the illusive man) that the collectors were working with the reapers.  It was all assumed until horizon confirmed it.  Abductions give the greatest and easiest chance to complete the reaper.  Seizing each colony at a time is basically "banking" completion.

I also do not believe the reapers are impatient, but rather they cannot afford the luxury of believing the other races do not know about them.  By the time the reapers know exactly what happened with their signal (events of ME1 due to the Protheans) they are, as you say, 4 years out.  Only being 4 years out, why not reap the galaxy?  They also cannot take the chance the Protheans did not leave anything else behind.

I hope this helps you.  Again, as I said, nothing here is confirmed, but this is what I've come up with as best to answer your questions and hopefully you do not see the Reapers as "poorly thought out story mechanic #102".

[DukeOfNukes]

ah, didn't see this thread when I made mine, but my question is in the same vein. Seems like a pretty major plothole...which will likely not be addressed, in favor of more "big budget" scenes, and explosions.

[Quole]

robarcool wrote...

So, you want the reapers to fly out to the galaxy, showing up like idiots and be destroyed by the collective forces of the galaxy? Well, if you remember Vigil's tale, they want Citadel relay access to mount a surprise attack on the leadership of the galaxy and gain all the info about the current organic races from the Citadel. Then they systematically eliminate the races.

Actually, they would most likely destroy the collective fleets of the galaxy.