160 réponses à ce sujet

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

Dudeman315 wrote...

Why are reapers so impatient?

Your premise is flawed.  The Reapers are patient.

When I go to work, I don't take a helicopter, even though my neighbor owns one and there's a big field next to my house.  I drive for 20mins.  It's a good balance of energy invested versus return on the investment of that energy. 

For the Reapers, clicking on the Citadel signal and zipping right to the Citadel has two benefits:  They're smack dab in the center of the jump gate web-- a web then can then prevent anyone else from using.  They can also decapitate any galactic government that has formed, preventing a coordinated response to their invasion.  For the investment of some energy used in their one of a kind backdoor jump gate, they get quite a bit of return.

Ok, so Shepard swaps the Citadel signal with the Nyan cat song and now the Reapers can't get to the Citadel easily.  What's next?  They text Harbinger and say "plz bld nu rpr n mk hvc lol" Harbinger's like "k" and so he hires the Collectors.  At this point, the Reapers know they're going to be taking the long road, so they start walking.  They're going to have to invest a huge ass amount of energy to push all their giant space-asses back to the galaxy.  It doesn't appear to be a hardship they can't overcome, but it's going to take an investment of energy to facilitate their return and that is energy they won't have when they get back to the galaxy.

If their plan worked, Harbinger would be running around with a human Reaper.   You want to talk about divide and conquer?  Announce that humans would become immortal machine gods and everyone else will die.  All humans have to do is fly out to meet this cool Reaper and join up!  Nevermind the other races turning on humanity, humanity would have turned on itself.  Then the other races would have had their turn... it would have been a disaster for the galaxy and it would have lasted way more than four years...  Meaning that when the Reapers returned, they wouldn't need to expend as much effort to exterminate the other races.  That process would already be underway.

But Shepard squashed the Reaper grub and left Harbinger fiddling with his continent sized genitals.  Poor Harbinger.  The Reapers are left with no other option but to barrel ass into the galaxy, hit a relay that won't let them shut all the other relays off, and go gate by gate exterminating races.  Only Shepard blows that first jump gate up too.

In the end, the Reapers are ****ed.  They are hardcore ****ed and they know it better than anyone that isn't Commander Shepard.  Because of Shepard Nyan-attack, grub squashing, and relay bustin', the Reapers are coming into the galaxy having spent huge amounts of energy and effort to get here.  They seem like robotic gods (biotic gods!?) but they are not.  They're huge starships and they are bound by the laws of physics just like the races that now have a chance to unite against them.  Unlike those other races though, the Reapers are coming to the fight drained.

[Kaiser Shepard]

GuiltySource wrote...

The thing I never understood, is why the Reapers didn't make the Citadel function like a normal Relay. Why not build it so they could activate it from their end? Instead of needing the Keepers to activate it from inside the Galaxy.

True, this has bugged me to hell and back as well. I suppose back in ME1 we could've simply assumed that their signals couldn't travel so far, but now that we of quantum entanglement there really is not excuse why they couldn't activate it from their side.

Saphra Deden wrote...

The idea that the Reapers can reach the galaxy from dark space is a little hard to believe. If they are that close that conventional FTL can get them to the galaxy then they should have already been discovered because somebody with a telescope would look in the right direction and see their fleet sitting there.

Well, technically speaking a telescope would've shown what was there X amount of years ago. On that note, if we simply determined how long ago it exactly was that the last culling occured, we could find a location that same amount of lightyears from Feros or the Citadel and well, record what happened.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 20 juillet 2011 - 05:45 .

[dreman9999]

1.We don't have the full story so we can't judge.
2. I don't think that's the whole fleet in ME3. The Reapers may have split their fleet to try multiple ways to invade. One group dealt with the citidel, while another just flew to the relay.

[Blarty]

" They text Harbinger and say "plz bld nu rpr n mk hvc lol" Harbinger's like "k" "

ZOMG! The Reapers are affiliates of lulzsec!

[Thompson family]

Re: OP

Why are the Reapers so impatient? Because they're god-like egos are even more overblown than their truly god-like power. They're insulted by the defiance of the lesser beings and they see their arrival and harvest not as something they wish to impose, but as something as certain as fate and an inevitable natural cycle.

They're more arrogant than the Great Persian Empire. When the Greeks beat the Persians at Marathon, the god-emperor brought troops from all portions of the Empire to wipe off the insult. Where do you think Sovereign's line about "darken the skies of every planet" comes from?

And Shepard will fight in the shade.

Modifié par Thompson family, 20 juillet 2011 - 06:02 .

[BatmanPWNS]

They better explain everything about the Reaprs in ME3 because they still don't make sense to me.

[whywhywhywhy]

marshalleck wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Plan A) Rachni Wars
Plan Saren & Geth
Plan C) Collectors and Human Reaper
Plan D) Zerg Rush

Theyre running out of options.

That all still begs the question: 

When Citadel was first discovered unresponsive, why not

A) Fly back to Alpha relay
Use Alpha relay to jump directly to the Citadel
C) Annihilate unsuspecting Citadel defenses, proceed with extinction



Answer: because in Mass Effect, it's not that Shepard is awesome, so much as it is the antagonists in the series are all woefully incompetent. Even the Reapers. 

I believe the original story was thrown out, your simple observation along with the ops question points to a huge plothole introduced when EA/BW decided to make ME3 "go big."  It's mentioned numerous times in e3 video interviews.  This is why arrival was introduced and broke everything. 

If you erase the alpha relay incident then the repears actions aren't so bad, an argument could even be made(a weak one) for the terminator baby.  The reapers were described as been somewhere deep in dark space, thus the citadel's powerful relay ability made sense.  Rachini wars and everything makes sense some issues still exists but the story is reasonable.

When introducing the smaller Alpha relay that means they have to be close enough to use a relay somewhere out in dark space to get to it.  This means they are close, closer then previously incinuated.  This was needed so you could have the movie cinematic shot of thousands of reapers landing on earth.  They feeling of hopelessness eluded toin the interview and that's what you fight.

So getting back to the ops question the Reapers are in a rush because the devs want them to be in a rush so they can "create" a epic ending for me3.  And yes you are correct it doesn't make any sense, storywise.

[DukeOfNukes]

The impression I got from ME1 is that the citadel wasn't just a relay...it also actively "woke up" the Reapers. If this is the case, it's easy to write off Sovereigns actions. When he made his move, they WEREN'T coming...And when he attacked the citadel, he may not have managed to activate the citadel, but surely he had time to send a signal out "waking them".

[utdan]

The only problem i have is why did sovereign wait 1000 years between the rachni wars and his attack in me1? My idea on how everything else makes sense relies on the hybernating reapers needing a signal from either the citadel being activated or in this case the death of Sovereign to wake them up.
Why Saren was important to Sovereign(rachni wars to end of me1)

The way i see it is that Sovereign judged the galactic community had reached a high enough technical advancement to necesitate 'reaping', after finding out the citadel is not responding he decides he needs to find out where the problem originated and if theres any more potential problems so they can be destroyed to prevent future galactic species from reactivating it/them and causing the same problems again. To do this he needs allies to do his dirty work without drawing attention to himself.

He indoctrinates the rachni to weaken the galaxy races and disrupt their technological advancement to bide time for himself to gain allies. He waits ~1000 years possibly because the geth are the first army he can recruit without risking drawing attention to himself from galaxy races. They build their numbers waiting for the right time to attack. He recruits Saren to work within the system.

The beacon's found starting me1. Ilos is found and, being convinced that it is the only trick the protheans had up their sleeve, Sovereign goes to the citadel to start the attack and would destroy ilos with the rest of our technology.
       
Why not use the alpha relay instead of the collectors?

1) The reapers would of known through the collectors that virtually noone believed Shepard (cerberus, Hackett, Anderson and possibly the Salarian gov.). Despite what most think i actually think the reapers overestimate humanity due to Shepard and the alliances defeat of Sovereign. A straight attack would put them against the entire galaxy and humans at full strength. The collectors were used as an attempted stealth strike against humanity to weaken the reapers biggest threat (from their POV). If it wasn't for one deranged quarian they probably would of suceeded as shep wouldnt know it was the collectors or have a seeker swarm sample for Mordin to analyse.    

2) The main point of reaping civilisations is to create new reapers and considering how many people they need to build just one reaper, losing even 2 or 3 could make this cycle counter productive. Even if they are 100% certain they'll win why risk it when theres another option?  Using the collectors didn't risk any pre-exsisting reapers and without an outstanding amount of bad luck (for them) promised a new one.

TL:DR: dont blame ya.


     

Modifié par whoISthatgirl, 20 juillet 2011 - 06:55 .

[jamesp81]

Couple of reasons

1) The Reapers were already behind schedule as of ME1.
2) Shepard pissed in their coffee, and they want payback.

[Rahmiel]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

The impression I got from ME1 is that the citadel wasn't just a relay...it also actively "woke up" the Reapers.

That's the same impression I had after playing ME1.  I'm currently replaying it now, need to talk to vigil again and refresh my knowledge on the events.

If this is the case, it's easy to write off Sovereigns actions. When he made his move, they WEREN'T coming...And when he attacked the citadel, he may not have managed to activate the citadel, but surely he had time to send a signal out "waking them".

I wouldn't be so quick to write off his actions.  The reapers have instaneous communication with their tech (as in Retribution and Paul Grayson) so it's likely that whenever Sovereign (if he did) try to communicate with the citadel and open the Citadel as a relay, he contacted the reaper fleet and told them to start hoofing it.  Meanwhile he'd do his best to get it open.  <shrug>

It's difficult to know how Sovereign operated.  I only say this because of how he is discovered orbiting a planet outside of Geth space.  Did he frequently power up and down?  Was he behind the Rachni wars?  Etc. etc.  Either Sovereign was left behind to bring back the reapers, or he was left behind as a failsafe, or he was left behind because the others figured he was like the other defunct reaper floating near the brown dwarf.

[vanslyke85]

questions will be answered people...it's our turn to be patient...

[Rahmiel]

whoISthatgirl wrote...

The only problem i have is why did sovereign wait 1000 years between the rachni wars and his attack in me1? My idea on how everything else makes sense relies on the hybernating reapers needing a signal from either the citadel being activated or in this case the death of Sovereign to wake them up.

Do we know for sure Sovereign was behind the rachni wars?  We can assume the reapers were involved in the souring of the rachni song, but we cannot say that Sovereign was behind it (yet).  He could have been, I'm not saying one way or the other is correct.

The only thing we do know, is that Sovereign needed an agent within the galactic community to figure out why the keepers were not responding to the signal on the citadel.  Whether that signal came from Sovereign, or the reapers out in Dark Space we do not know that either (or do we and I've just missed something?)

I agree with most of what you say/think, with a few exceptions.  But overall, I can't really find fault with what you're thinking.  It seems consistent.  Good job  

[whywhywhywhy]

Nozybidaj wrote...

robarcool wrote...

So, you want the reapers to fly out to the galaxy, showing up like idiots and be destroyed by the collective forces of the galaxy? Well, if you remember Vigil's tale, they want Citadel relay access to mount a surprise attack on the leadership of the galaxy and gain all the info about the current organic races from the Citadel. Then they systematically eliminate the races.

Bolded part important.  That's exactly the question he's asking.  Why risk tipping your hand?  This has never really been explained.  If they can just as easily fly here in such a short time span why bother with Saren or anything from ME1 to begin with?  They could have just flown in to whatever relay they were going to in the DLC and started their attacks from there and no one would have had any idea what was going on.

The ease with which they just fly on in makes everything they have done in prior games seemly monumentally stupid.

agreed

[Rahmiel]

Could the signal also have "awoken" Sovereign? Perhaps he was left behind as an insurance policy? Biding his time, looking for answers while monitoring the galactic community? Or is it known he was left behind to monitor and then awaken the other reapers and send the signal himself.

[Annihilator27]

Rogue Unit wrote...

Dudeman315 wrote...

This just bothered me, but why did soverign try to activate the citidel relay at all?  The timeline for the end ME1 to Arrival show no more than 4 years pass before the Reapers would make it to the Alpha Relay.  I really hope we get an answer to why the super intellegent machine race would even try to access the citidel after it didn't work with the signal to the keepers if it only takes 4 years max to manually fly to the galaxy.  Unless they started flying here earlier and took the Dark space relay with them(why?) it really makes no sense to give up the element of surprise when you could have just waited 4 years. And why tip your tentacle with abducting human colonies, Harbringer, when you know you wouldn't finish reaper baby until after your buddies arrive? 

Why are reapers so impatient?

They aren't as intelligent as they want you to believe they are.

[Rahmiel]

whywhywhywhy wrote...

Nozybidaj wrote...

robarcool wrote...

So, you want the reapers to fly out to the galaxy, showing up like idiots and be destroyed by the collective forces of the galaxy? Well, if you remember Vigil's tale, they want Citadel relay access to mount a surprise attack on the leadership of the galaxy and gain all the info about the current organic races from the Citadel. Then they systematically eliminate the races.

Bolded part important.  That's exactly the question he's asking.  Why risk tipping your hand?  This has never really been explained.  If they can just as easily fly here in such a short time span why bother with Saren or anything from ME1 to begin with?  They could have just flown in to whatever relay they were going to in the DLC and started their attacks from there and no one would have had any idea what was going on.

The ease with which they just fly on in makes everything they have done in prior games seemly monumentally stupid.

agreed

Do we know when the reapers began their flight back from Dark Space?  Do we know how fast they're able to move?  Do they have a back up mass relay throughout dark space to help them traverse it faster?  There's much we do not know about dark space or how the reapers operate.  Just that they're far more advanced than we are.

Why risk the attack on the citadel in the first place?  This is the way it has always been done and they figured victory was assured?  Why bother waiting 4 more years, when you can surprise attack the citadel now.  Sovereign failed, but they figured we still had the alpha relay.  If he succeeds, then we don't need the alpha relay.

Why are 4 more years that important?  If Sovereign does not attack the citadel, then he has to make sure Saren and him and the Geth fleet can travel throughout the galaxy destroying every single Prothean discovery as they cannot risk there being more discoveries of back door conduits or even plans to a weapon.  Not to mention if the council were to see Sovereign and the Geth fleet, they'd mobilise and galvanise the galactic community.

There are a whole bunch of ifs on either side of the fence.  I choose to suspend my disbelief with the events as they have unfolded.  I look forward to ME3, and I also look forward to more clarification.  I think my biggest problem wtih ME2, was information coming back to me from the first game that I already knew (there to help people that did not play the first game).  Rather than furthering my understanding and knowledge, I had to sift through what was supposed to be there for new gamers and what is new for people that had played the first game.

[Luigitornado]

marshalleck wrote...

Dudeman315 wrote...

Why are reapers so impatient?

Because they're poorly written. There are no good answers to the questions you're asking. Also, be prepared for a bunch of people thinking they're clever coming in here to tell you the Reapers attack the Citadel to cut off the head of galactic government, even though that's not an answer to the question you asked.

<_<

[Praetor Knight]

Dudeman315 wrote...

This just bothered me, but why did soverign try to activate the citidel relay at all?

This plan was possibly centuries in the making, the Geth forces were formidable in ME1, and I think Sovereign could have been the instigator in the Morning War.

The timeline for the end ME1 to Arrival show no more than 4 years pass before the Reapers would make it to the Alpha Relay.  I really hope we get an answer to why the super intellegent machine race would even try to access the citidel after it didn't work with the signal to the keepers if it only takes 4 years max to manually fly to the galaxy.  Unless they started flying here earlier and took the Dark space relay with them(why?) it really makes no sense to give up the element of surprise when you could have just waited 4 years. And why tip your tentacle with abducting human colonies, Harbringer, when you know you wouldn't finish reaper baby until after your buddies arrive?

Check this out, it's a decent synopsis of the Reaper Plans:

Mesina2 wrote...

Explaining Reaper plans


Special thanks to Squee913 for voicing this.

http://social.biowar...41788/1#7741788

Why are reapers so impatient?

As Bogsnot1 said in the first page of this thread, the Reapers are running out of options to regain control over how they've handled their business. And they've been very patient it seems.

Since the Rachni Wars, the Reapers have tried their best to stay in the Shadows.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 20 juillet 2011 - 08:07 .

[Luigitornado]

Yeah and why didn't Shepard wait to launch the asteroid into the Alpha relay until the Reapers showed up in that system?

Because then there would be no ME3.

If anything the Repears are over confident. They believe they are the best because they succeeded with fulfilling their extinction cycle thingy "more times than we can fathom."

Any slight problem to their plans is viewed as a simple annoyance rather than a full on threat. I don't see them as desperate; I believe that they actually believe that they will succeed. They probably can't even "fathom" the possibility of one human creating the avalanche that will stop them cold. Because what is Mass Effect about other than organic-life perseverance...or more narrowly human perseverance?

Mass Effect is a classic David and Goliath tale.

[Ianamus]

The Reapers harvest life when it reaches a certain stage of development. Any further and the civilisation would become powerful enough to pose a threat to the Reapers. The Thanix canons, the research into dark matter, the extensive research on Mass Relays which proves they're not Preothean- the Reapers do not want these.

Not to mention that the galaxy is aware of their existance before they attack, which no other cycle was. Even if the council denies it the Geth, Krogan, Salarian and Quarian governing bodies all know about the Reaper threat, and countless individuals from the races that do not officially accept the threat do as well. With Kensons research the galaxy as a whole has already learned that the Mass Relay's predate the Protheans. The Reapers need to strike as fast as they can.

[DukeOfNukes]

Memmahkth wrote...
I wouldn't be so quick to write off his actions.

I didn't mean write them off as in call them a plot hole or unnecissary. I meant write them off as justifiable. If he awoke the Reapers at the Citadel, his actions made sense. However...if they were merely 4 years out, it would have made as much sense to just fly out into Dark Space and smack them around until they woke up. Sovereign was with Saren for nearly 20 years...and who knows how long before that he was trying to figure out what was wrong.

The first game seemed so well thought out and planned...it's a shame the 2nd had to tear it all down, and the 3rd appears like it will do it further.