539 réponses à ce sujet

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

I prefer zero meaningless choices. Some (or many) inevitably fail to change the narrative. That's fine. But all of your character's decisions ought to matter in some tangible way that you experience through the game and not just imagine in your head. I've gone at length describing a plethora of ways. Ambient NPCs, attack sounds, talent trees, reputation, branching content, etc.

But what I don't like is when people try to excuse meaningless choices as part of the game's esoteric brilliance or mischaracterise the nature of the criticism.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 04 août 2011 - 05:21 .

[Ryzaki]

My issue isn't the kind of character Hawke is. It's rather that he/she was marketed as something he/she...isn't. It's a bunch of bull. Hawke didn't rise to power by any means necessary. Hawke was given a lame title and was buffeted by the winds of fate. I don't like that kind of story. If I had been warned ahead of time I would've never came near the game or would've had different expectations. Instead I played it expecting something else. I expected a Shepard/Warden like figure. Instead I got a Conrad who can fight.

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...

Other than the fact that despite them dating for years he nor anyone other than Leandra has ever seen the man? That would make plenty of people suspicious. That's not normal. If you're that reluctant to show yourself you're hiding something. 

I don't think we know that he was reluctant to show himself.  The game doesn't show that either way.  For all we know, he could have come by the estate and Hawke could have met him.  Of course, he'd play the charming fellow and Hawke would have no reasons for suspicion.   They don't show that...should they have?  Maybe. 

I was also under the impression they started dating in Act 2...so it wasn't years, but maybe only weeks or months.

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...

I don't think we know that he was reluctant to show himself.  The game doesn't show that either way.  For all we know, he could have come by the estate and Hawke could have met him.  Of course, he'd play the charming fellow and Hawke would have no reasons for suspicion.   They don't show that...should they have?  Maybe.  

I was also under the impression they started dating in Act 2...so it wasn't years, but maybe only weeks or months.

 

I'm prety sure if Hawke had met him he would've said as much to Quentin. 

Which is even *more* reason to be suspicious in that scenario. Some new guy sends lillies right after a new victim shows up? Hawke should've been on high alarm either way. 

[erynnar]

Ryzaki wrote...

My issue isn't the kind of character Hawke is. It's rather that he/she was marketed as something he/she...isn't. It's a bunch of bull. Hawke didn't rise to power by any means necessary. Hawke was given a lame title and was buffeted by the winds of fate. I don't like that kind of story. If I had been warned ahead of time I would've never came near the game or would've had different expectations. Instead I played it expecting something else. I expected a Shepard/Warden like figure. Instead I got a Conrad who can fight.

yeah that bugged me too. The marketing didn't help.

[Aeowyn]

Ryzaki wrote...

My issue isn't the kind of character Hawke is. It's rather that he/she was marketed as something he/she...isn't. It's a bunch of bull. Hawke didn't rise to power by any means necessary. Hawke was given a lame title and was buffeted by the winds of fate. I don't like that kind of story. If I had been warned ahead of time I would've never came near the game or would've had different expectations. Instead I played it expecting something else. I expected a Shepard/Warden like figure. Instead I got a Conrad who can fight.

And that is your opinion Ryz. Not everyone sees their Hawke as a "Conrad who can fight".

Now the marketing part I can agree with. I think marketing did a pretty ****ty job, and really, they're probably to blame for half the flamers in this forum.

Modifié par Aeowyn, 04 août 2011 - 05:23 .

[Ryzaki]

Aeowyn wrote...
And that is your opinion Ryz. Not everyone see their Hawke as a "Conrad who can fight".

Did I say it wasn't?  This is a forum 99% of what is posted is someone's opinion. Wasn't aware I needed to preface my posts with "In my opinion." 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 août 2011 - 05:26 .

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...

I'm prety sure if Hawke had met him he would've said as much to Quentin. 

Which is even *more* reason to be suspicious in that scenario. Some new guy sends lillies right after a new victim shows up? Hawke should've been on high alarm either way. 

I thought he only sent lillies on the night he planned to take her...it's like, his 'calling card' or something.  

Before then, no lillies arrived but they had been dating.

[Ryzaki]

jlb524 wrote...
I thought he only sent lillies on the night he planned to take her...it's like, his 'calling card' or something.  

Before then, no lillies arrived but they had been dating.

No. The other woman got the lillies before as did the mage (at least...I'm pretty sure. I did that quest several hours ago). I believe so did the first guy's wife.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 août 2011 - 05:27 .

[Frusciante31]

erynnar wrote...

Ah yes, because what I need more of is real life. I thought that we were trying to escape that by playing a video game. Silly me. Again, I deal with trying and failing which have real life consequences on people's lives (homeless cancer patients anyone?). So, I really don't need to have my avatar be a completely inept loser whose presence really doesn't matter.

I agree with you on this - most people want to play a video game to escape the turmoil and grind of everyday life. 
That's not the issue in the thread though; the issue is whether Hawke is a well-developed character. 

I think "real-life" aspect of Hawke's failures make him an interesting character, but that does not mean I think the game, overall, was great. ( For the record, I do like it - alot! - but I certainly recognize why other people don't)

I hope that distinction makes sense

[lady constance]

Rogue Unit wrote...

lady constance wrote...

Sepewrath wrote...

corkey sweet wrote...

i find the charcter Hawke to be very shallow and dull. he is very non-memorable. i hope bioware decides to give hawke an offscreen death before dragon age 3 comes out

I disagree, Hawke was a great character, that was fleshed out very well as opposed to the Warden who was just a blank avatar, that had no actual purpose. If you look back at the story in Origins, if you remove the Warden, it wouldn't matter in the least bit. The latter, they need to ever do again, the former, definitely needs to be more of that.

The Warden had no purpose? I don't understand. The Warden was the only one who could defeat the Archdemon at the time. All of the other Ferelden Wardens, aside from Alistair, were dead. Who else could have gathered an army to take on the Blight? Alistair? That wasn't likely. So, without the Warden, the Blight would have devastated much of the world.

The Darkspawn Chronicles showed that - in a world without the Warden - Alistair was more than capable of uniting the lands against the Blight on his own.

Oh, I see. I've never played Darkspawn Chronicles. If the Warden is indeed as useless as Hawke,  I fail to see the point in all the sacrifices they made. This sours my opinion of Origins a bit. Two useless protagonists lead me to believe the third will be equally useless.

Modifié par lady constance, 04 août 2011 - 05:28 .

[Ryzaki]

...DSC ends with Fereldan getting overrun by the blight.

How exactly does that prove Alistair was more than capable of uniting the lands against the Blight?

[Frusciante31]

mrcrusty wrote...

But what I don't like is when people try to excuse meaningless choices as part of the game's esoteric brilliance or mischaracterise the nature of the criticism.

What do you mean by a "meaningful choice", out of curiousity?

[Aeowyn]

Ryzaki wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
I thought he only sent lillies on the night he planned to take her...it's like, his 'calling card' or something.  

Before then, no lillies arrived but they had been dating.

No. The other woman got the lillies before as did the mage (at least...I'm pretty sure. I did that quest several hours ago). I believe so did the first guy's wife.

I saw it as them getting lillies shortly before they disappeared too.

[Ryzaki]

Frusciante31 wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

But what I don't like is when people try to excuse meaningless choices as part of the game's esoteric brilliance or mischaracterise the nature of the criticism.

What do you mean by a "meaningful choice", out of curiousity?

I would guess one of those choices that didn't make any real difference. (Like choosing to spare the Magistrate's son or kill him.) 

I was hoping that would have large consequences but alas. 

Aeowyn wrote...
I saw it as them getting lillies shortly before they disappeared too.

Hm...might need to replay that quest. Could've sworn they got the lillies weeks if not days before they vanished. That is how Gascard was able to track down the second to last victim. (or at least I assumed that's how he tracked them down.) 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 août 2011 - 05:34 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Frusciante31 wrote...

mrcrusty wrote...

But what I don't like is when people try to excuse meaningless choices as part of the game's esoteric brilliance or mischaracterise the nature of the criticism.

What do you mean by a "meaningful choice", out of curiousity?

http://social.biowar...1768/10#8032853

[Morroian]

Addai67 wrote...

You stay to fight the Blight, and since it's stipulated that Hawke and Aveline are both anti-Loghain, to fight him.  If they had stuck around a little while, they'd have heard that Bannorn were rebelling and could have joined in.

It's fine if you didn't care about that.  I'm saying this is what makes Hawke a loser in my book from word one.  

So a person who cares more for his family than his country is a loser? For choosing to protect his family rather than fight for a cause that would have seemed overwhelmingly lost? And Aveline too then I take it.

Modifié par Morroian, 04 août 2011 - 05:42 .

[DragonRageGT]

Ryzaki wrote...

...DSC ends with Fereldan getting overrun by the blight.

How exactly does that prove Alistair was more than capable of uniting the lands against the Blight?

Sorry but a separated DLC like DSC cannot say anything about the main game. Unless it's a bad dream, that first bad dream the warden has when he first sleep at the party camp, remember that? That's how I see and enjoy DSC anyway. =)

[jlb524]

Ryzaki wrote...

My issue isn't the kind of character Hawke is. It's rather that he/she was marketed as something he/she...isn't. It's a bunch of bull. Hawke didn't rise to power by any means necessary. Hawke was given a lame title and was buffeted by the winds of fate. I don't like that kind of story. If I had been warned ahead of time I would've never came near the game or would've had different expectations. Instead I played it expecting something else. I expected a Shepard/Warden like figure. Instead I got a Conrad who can fight.

I don't think Hawke was buffeted by the winds of fate.  S/he did things to gain influence in Act 1 which led to her being trusted in Act 2 by both the Viscount and the Arishok.  This is the reason that s/he was thrown into the qunari conflict at the end of that act and the reason why s/he was the one to stop the Arishok and gain the title of 'Champion'.  It wasn't on pure dumb luck. 

Desiring a Shepard/Warden figure is fine...I'm personally sick of it.  Those figures have power and responsiblitly on the basis of being in the Wardens/Spectres.   They have to do what they do and they have some backup.  Hawke is a different type of character.  S/he has no power and no responsibility.  The title of 'Champion' was bestowed upon her/him because of one deed, but there was no concrete expectations for future actions based on this.  Hawke could sit on her/his ass if desired, getting discounts at local shops, and do nothing for the city after that.  Hawke doesn't though, and still tries to help the people of Kirkwall to the best of her/his ability given that the title of 'Champion' carries no political power in Kirkwall.

Ryzaki wrote...

No. The other woman got the lillies before
as did the mage (at least...I'm pretty sure. I did that quest several
hours ago). I believe so did the first guy's wife.

Regardless, Hawke doesn't know about the lillies until that night.  Perhaps Leandra didn't show them to Hawke? 

Modifié par jlb524, 04 août 2011 - 05:36 .

[Realmzmaster]

Addai67 wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Frusciante31 wrote...

1.  Hawke is trying to protect his mother and siblings by getting them to Kirkwall where they are safe from the Blight.

So she gets them to Gwaren, puts them on a ship and waves goodbye.  Did you see those schmucks in Redcliffe leaving their families behind to go fight?  Why couldn't we have played one of them?

You obviously are not an elder sibling, or have never been forced to be responsible of a family member or you wouldn't even have made that suggestion.

And yes, where exactly would Hawke leave to fight? Since they flee Lothering shortly after Ostagar, there is no army to join against the Blight.

Soldiers do it all the time and have done throughout history.  I'm sure they're not all younger siblings.

You stay to fight the Blight, and since it's stipulated that Hawke and Aveline are both anti-Loghain, to fight him.  If they had stuck around a little while, they'd have heard that Bannorn were rebelling and could have joined in.

It's fine if you didn't care about that.  I'm saying this is what makes Hawke a loser in my book from word one.  The rest of the game just confirms it.

Yes soldiers do it. Soldiers also have the sense to know not to fight a losing battle. When to retreat and not to needlessly throw away lives. And above all if possible to protect the civilian population. And I guarntee you that if a soldier thought his /her family was in danger they would find any means possible to get to them.

Patton said it best: You do not win wars by dying for your country.  You win wars by making the other poor bastard die for his country.

Even the warden is not going to wade into an army of darkspawn without a chance of winning. That is called sucide.

So Hawke is a sensible winner in my book . YMMV.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 04 août 2011 - 05:37 .

[Zjarcal]

Ryzaki wrote...

...DSC ends with Fereldan getting overrun by the blight.

How exactly does that prove Alistair was more than capable of uniting the lands against the Blight?

He did gather all the armies just like the warden. Hell, even Howe and Cauthrien were fighting alongisde the troops.

The only real difference between Alistair's journey and the Warden's is that because the player controls the Darkspawn the only "win" scenario is for Alistair to lose. I could let Alistair and company defeat me and then say Alistair saved Ferelden.

Seriously though, DSC should not be taken seriously... ever.

[lady constance]

Ryzaki wrote...

...DSC ends with Fereldan getting overrun by the blight.

How exactly does that prove Alistair was more than capable of uniting the lands against the Blight?

Yeahh, I just watched the ending to see for myself. This only proves further that the Warden was necessary in order to defeat the Blight. Loss of faith in Dragon Age retracted.

[KnightofPhoenix]

mrcrusty wrote...
Dragon Age 2 overwhelmingly failed to do that. Now, they had a rushed development cycle, which is likely the main cause of the lack of consequences. So, there's at least that.

Honestly, I don't think so. No Bioware game I played had that many choices that matter in the way you describe. I think the real problem is the entire design philosophy.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

Seriously though, DSC should not be taken seriously... ever.

Why not? :devil::devil: