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[Thor Rand Al]

@lady constance
No I came in here to show my support for Hawke because I'm tired of seeing all the DA2 negativity n it is in every single thread. I also asked earlier why all the hate, because honestly a lot of it doesn't make sense. When someone says they hate DA2 because it doesn't have the Warden in it, that seems lame, when you see reasons like that it makes you go um ok this isn't TW where you can play Geralt in 1 n 2 or ME where Shepards in every single game. This is DA, they never said we would be playin our characters that we started out with at the beginning to the end of the games. Game's change n evolve, they get new fighting styles, they get new characters. I actually like my Wardens story and how it ended for my female anyways.

I am a Hawke and DA2 supporter, few n far between do you see that in a thread because of the slamming n discontent. Like cmz said, we'd like to go into a thread and squee without gettin slammed for it, we shouldn't have to make a special little group where the supporters don't have to worry about being slammed for saying they like someone. That's wrong and unfair. So yes some of us are standing up and saying enough is enough. You don't have to take this to every single thread.

But I've had enough of this for the night, it's late n I want some Hawke time so have fun n talk to you all some other time, Peace.

[KnightofPhoenix]

jlb524 wrote...

In our society...can you say the same about the qunari?

Why do they even have a commander then?
What's his role if not managing the army?
How is that as much responsability as a soldier?

I would guess probably b/c of their brawn and devotion to their role. 

The real reason as I see it is that Bioware is very good at writing incompetent characters, and not so much the opposite.

They don't think like us, though.  The Arishok demands nothing...only the Qun demands anything.  The Arishok's purpose is to fulfill his role in the Qun, whatever that entails.  His purpose involves getting a book back...and that's about it.  The other qunari have roles involving...chaining mages..not him.  He doesn't have the freedom to think outside that box.  The Qun doesn't demand that he do anything about the Viscount or Petrice.  He only acts when the city guards of Kirkwall try to take back his converts or even kill one (Petrice)...the Qun demands he do something about that. 

So the Qun demands that he demands others to do what the Qun doesn't demand of him, while the Qun also demands that he barge into the city and not reveal his purpose at all, and at the same time demand that they tolerate and don't bother him, while he doesn't demand of his men to tolerate their hosts. Because the Qun demands it.

That for me, ends up being little different and not that more appealing than killing darkspawn. Why are they doing what they do? The song demands it.

Except I find disciples in Awakening to be much more interesting.

That is the kind of thing I really dislike about Bioware.

[Ryzaki]

No offense but going into a "All the Hawke hate?" thread and expecting squee isn't very sensible. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 août 2011 - 07:32 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

I am a Hawke and DA2 supporter.

I always found idea of a customer being a supporter of a game to be weird personally.

The only thing I support is my wallet.

[Thor Rand Al]

Ryzaki wrote...

No offense but going into a "All the Hawke hate?" thread and expecting squee isn't very sensible. 

Wasn't expecting squee in fact I knew it wasn't goin to be, but dang it Hawke needs supporters too n where better to do it then in a thread that's asking WHY all the Hawke hate...?   Lol

[LilyasAvalon]

When someone says they hate DA2 because it doesn't have the Warden in it, that seems lame, when you see reasons like that it makes you go um ok this isn't TW where you can play Geralt in 1 n 2 or ME where Shepards in every single game.

Mass Effect was DESIGNED to originally center around a singular character though, Dragon Age wasn't.

This is DA, they never said we would be playin our characters that we started out with at the beginning to the end of the games. Game's change n evolve, they get new fighting styles, they get new characters. I actually like my Wardens story and how it ended for my female anyways.

I could've been more accepting of DA2 and Bioware's attempt at trying something new. I was happy to move on from the Warden's story as well and try out Hawke. I played DA2, I didn't like it, but I, like so many other of Bioware fans politely pointed out WHY I didn't like it.

But then the developers turn around at us, the fans that have supported their games for several series and told us that we were just b$%@#ing because we weren't playing on a hard enough level. That was just pure salt on the wound.

[Aeowyn]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

When someone says they hate DA2 because it doesn't have the Warden in it, that seems lame, when you see reasons like that it makes you go um ok this isn't TW where you can play Geralt in 1 n 2 or ME where Shepards in every single game.

Mass Effect was DESIGNED to originally center around a singular character though, Dragon Age wasn't.

This is DA, they never said we would be playin our characters that we started out with at the beginning to the end of the games. Game's change n evolve, they get new fighting styles, they get new characters. I actually like my Wardens story and how it ended for my female anyways.

I could've been more accepting of DA2 and Bioware's attempt at trying something new. I was happy to move on from the Warden's story as well and try out Hawke. I played DA2, I didn't like it, but I, like so many other of Bioware fans politely pointed out WHY I didn't like it.

But then the developers turn around at us, the fans that have supported their games for several series and told us that we were just b$%@#ing because we weren't playing on a hard enough level. That was just pure salt on the wound.

Say what now? Legacy is obviously proof that the devs listen to our feedback and try to improve their game.

[jlb524]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Why do they even have a commander then?
What's his role if not managing the army?
How is that as much responsability as a soldier?

It's not the same responsibility as a soldier...but both are slaves to their responsibility equally (as I see it).

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
The real reason as I see it is that Bioware is very good at writing incompetent characters, and not so much the opposite.

I disagree.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

So the Qun demands that he demands others to do what the Qun doesn't demand of him, while the Qun also demands that he barge into the city and not reveal his purpose at all, and at the same time demand that they tolerate and don't bother him, while he doesn't demand of his men to tolerate their hosts. Because the Qun demands it.

That for me, ends up being little different and not that more appealing than killing darkspawn. Why are they doing what they do? The song demands it.

Except I find disciples in Awakening to be much more interesting.

That is the kind of thing I really dislike about Bioware.

I don't think he has to demand others to follow the Qun...they just do it. 

They are very single-minded...but supposedly they have freedom within their 'role' but that doesn't go very far.

[jlb524]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I always found idea of a customer being a supporter of a game to be weird personally.

The only thing I support is my wallet.

Your sig says you do support games.

Unless I don't know the meaning of 'support'.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Rojahar wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...

I am a Hawke and DA2 supporter.

I always found idea of a customer being a supporter of a game to be weird personally.

The only thing I support is my wallet.

You think people actually liking what they spend their money on is odd?

I think people defining themselves as supporters of said game, to be a bit odd yes.
Or at least not something I understand (it's probably the wording). Just my opinion though, and a fun poke.

[LilyasAvalon]

Aeowyn wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

When someone says they hate DA2 because it doesn't have the Warden in it, that seems lame, when you see reasons like that it makes you go um ok this isn't TW where you can play Geralt in 1 n 2 or ME where Shepards in every single game.

Mass Effect was DESIGNED to originally center around a singular character though, Dragon Age wasn't.

This is DA, they never said we would be playin our characters that we started out with at the beginning to the end of the games. Game's change n evolve, they get new fighting styles, they get new characters. I actually like my Wardens story and how it ended for my female anyways.

I could've been more accepting of DA2 and Bioware's attempt at trying something new. I was happy to move on from the Warden's story as well and try out Hawke. I played DA2, I didn't like it, but I, like so many other of Bioware fans politely pointed out WHY I didn't like it.

But then the developers turn around at us, the fans that have supported their games for several series and told us that we were just b$%@#ing because we weren't playing on a hard enough level. That was just pure salt on the wound.

Say what now? Legacy is obviously proof that the devs listen to our feedback and try to improve their game.

Yes, but after how long? They should've been responding that way since Day 1, when people began pointing this out, not telling us to 'get over it'.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for Legacy. It was a greatly written DLC, with a good plot and great character interaction. But it won't change what DA2 is. No amount of DLC or Expansion packs will.

[Aeowyn]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

When someone says they hate DA2 because it doesn't have the Warden in it, that seems lame, when you see reasons like that it makes you go um ok this isn't TW where you can play Geralt in 1 n 2 or ME where Shepards in every single game.

Mass Effect was DESIGNED to originally center around a singular character though, Dragon Age wasn't.

This is DA, they never said we would be playin our characters that we started out with at the beginning to the end of the games. Game's change n evolve, they get new fighting styles, they get new characters. I actually like my Wardens story and how it ended for my female anyways.

I could've been more accepting of DA2 and Bioware's attempt at trying something new. I was happy to move on from the Warden's story as well and try out Hawke. I played DA2, I didn't like it, but I, like so many other of Bioware fans politely pointed out WHY I didn't like it.

But then the developers turn around at us, the fans that have supported their games for several series and told us that we were just b$%@#ing because we weren't playing on a hard enough level. That was just pure salt on the wound.

Say what now? Legacy is obviously proof that the devs listen to our feedback and try to improve their game.

Yes, but after how long? They should've been responding that way since Day 1, when people began pointing this out, not telling us to 'get over it'.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for Legacy. It was a greatly written DLC, with a good plot and great character interaction. But it won't change what DA2 is. No amount of DLC or Expansion packs will.

They did respond. But people kept going on over and over again, ranting and pointing out the same things everywhere. It's not bloody possible for them to respond to everything, and in the end it gets very tiring. They've gotten the point, and repeating something over and over again loses its original point and just makes it become a rant.

[KnightofPhoenix]

jlb524 wrote...
It's not the same responsibility as a soldier...but both are slaves to their responsibility equally (as I see it).

Which was not the original point. The point was, if the Arishok respects Hawke without considering the fact that he is not confronted with what the Viscount is, then color me unimpressed.

I don't think he has to demand others to follow the Qun...they just do it. 

They are very single-minded...but supposedly they have freedom within their 'role' but that doesn't go very far.

Even the geth were not that single minded (more like absent minded). Yes, they actually have what passes for difference in opinion. 

An extreme with little subtelty is not appealing to me.

jlb524 wrote...

Your sig says you do support games.

Unless I don't know the meaning of 'support'.

My sig says I like games.

But what do I support them in? Their competitive wars? Do they have a cause I am unware of?

Maybe I am just looking at the word differently, but it's no biggie.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 04 août 2011 - 08:18 .

[jlb524]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Which was not the original point. The point was, if the Arishok respects Hawke without considering the fact that he is not confronted with what the Viscount is, then color me unimpressed.

I don't think the Arishok cares about the Viscount. 

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Even the geth were not that single minded. Yes, they actually have what passes for difference in opinion. 

An extreme with little subtelty is not appealing to me.

Well, some qunari do have differences in opinion and they rebel. 

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
My sig says I like games.

But what do I support them in? Their competitive wars? Do they have a cause I am unware of?

But you tend to defend games like 'The Witcher 2'....

[LilyasAvalon]

Aeowyn wrote...

They did respond. But people kept going on over and over again, ranting and pointing out the same things everywhere. It's not bloody possible for them to respond to everything, and in the end it gets very tiring. They've gotten the point, and repeating something over and over again loses its original point and just makes it become a rant.

They responded negatively in the early days. They refused to acknowledge any problems with plot, gameplay or characterisation until extremely recently.

How they're responding now doesn't change how they responded when the reviews that WEREN'T paid off by EA started coming out, how they responded when their fans started pointing out what was wrong. It still does not change that Dragon Age 2, ultimately, was a failure.

I'm happy they listened, I'm happy they're taking in the feedback seriously now and I'm happy that it will hopefully avoid making DA3 everything that made DA2 bad.

But I'm not happy it took them this long and I'm certainly not happy they insulted some of their longest time fans for the favour of newer button mashers.

Modifié par LilyasAvalon, 04 août 2011 - 08:27 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

jlb524 wrote...
I don't think the Arishok cares about the Viscount. 

That much is ovious, he doesn't care about anything other than what the Qun demands
And he is incredibly bad at it at that.

Still, not that great a reason to respect Hawke.

Well, some qunari do have differences in opinion and they rebel. 

They are no longer Qunari.
The "true geth" have what passes for a difference in opinion within their own...hardware I guess. This is shown in Legion's quest.

And at least they say that ultimately, both them and the Heretics are right.
Of course I am not asking for the Qunari to accept all others as right. but I'd prefer if they'd be a bit more competent and subtle at it. And act less like children.

But you tend to defend games like 'The Witcher 2'....

Yes, but praising is not the same as supporting, at least to my understanding.  Just like one praising the Mona Lisa wouldn't be...supporting the Mona Lisa. The wording seems off to me.
I am under no illusion to the contrary that my praising of TW2 (that I feel deserved), is of little consequence and is no support at all to the game. Maybe saying that a game is worthy of praise constitutes a "support"?
And defending TW2 here is even less of a support I am sure, and I do not expect anyone to change their mind.

But that's just (quite silly) semantics and really off-topic.

And I got to go sleep anyways. Been fun
Cheers.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 04 août 2011 - 08:34 .

[Aeowyn]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...

They did respond. But people kept going on over and over again, ranting and pointing out the same things everywhere. It's not bloody possible for them to respond to everything, and in the end it gets very tiring. They've gotten the point, and repeating something over and over again loses its original point and just makes it become a rant.

They responded negatively in the early days. They refused to acknowledge any problems with plot, gameplay or characterisation until extremely recently.

How they're responding now doesn't change how they responded when the reviews that WEREN'T paid off by EA started coming out, how they responded when their fans started pointing out what was wrong. It still does not change that Dragon Age 2, ultimately, was a failure.

I'm happy they listened, I'm happy they're taking in the feedback seriously now and I'm happy that it will hopefully avoid making DA3 everything that made DA2 bad.

But I'm not happy it took them this long and I'm certainly not happy they insulted some of their longest time fans for the favour of newer button mashers.

So I'm guessing you didn't read Mike Laidlaw's post in the early days then?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Aeowyn wrote...
So I'm guessing you didn't read Mike Laidlaw's post in the early days then?

I did, and what I read was more addressing symptoms, than causes imo (and was vague on certain issues) .
Understandable sure, but what he said was never something that remotely halted let alone reversed my gradual decreasing interest.

And now I am really off to bed. Night!

[Morroian]

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Yes, but after how long? They should've been responding that way since Day 1, when people began pointing this out, not telling us to 'get over it'.

The only people I've seen the devs respond to like that deserved it.

As for being critical of their own game from day 1 it has been said many many times that employees of a public company would not be able to say anything the reflected negatively on the game while its still selling. Why is this so hard to accept.

[Aeowyn]

Morroian wrote...

LilyasAvalon wrote...

Yes, but after how long? They should've been responding that way since Day 1, when people began pointing this out, not telling us to 'get over it'.

The only people I've seen the devs respond to like that deserved it.

As for being critical of their own game from day 1 it has been said many many times that employees of a public company would not be able to say anything the reflected negatively on the game while its still selling. Why is this so hard to accept.

This and the fact that employees can't go around confirming and denying details before it has been approved by upper management seems to be something a lot of people can't (or wont) understand.

[Huntress]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

No offense but going into a "All the Hawke hate?" thread and expecting squee isn't very sensible. 

Wasn't expecting squee in fact I knew it wasn't goin to be, but dang it Hawke needs supporters too n where better to do it then in a thread that's asking WHY all the Hawke hate...?   Lol

This people need to hate something, for almost 5 months is Hawke, soon enough is something also don't worry about it.
I do hope hawke has more story to tell!

[Sylvianus]

Huntress. It's obvious, you make a statement without having read anything. Or you do not have the ability to understand what is written, or you don't want to read.

" People need to hate something, " so it's Hawke. Well, thank you.

Ooooh, I know. You joke !!!! It's a joke ?????

You should be aware that many people who like this game, have not been comfortable with him ? Do they need to hate something too ?

Modifié par Sylvianus, 04 août 2011 - 01:04 .

[nitefyre410]

Huntress wrote...

Thor Rand Al wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

No offense but going into a "All the Hawke hate?" thread and expecting squee isn't very sensible. 

Wasn't expecting squee in fact I knew it wasn't goin to be, but dang it Hawke needs supporters too n where better to do it then in a thread that's asking WHY all the Hawke hate...?   Lol

This people need to hate something, for almost 5 months is Hawke, soon enough is something also don't worry about it.
I do hope hawke has more story to tell!

Im Telling you - if Bioware  released  a remake of  BG and BG 2 with all the expansions  with some updated graphics and extras.   Alot of this  hate would calm down - Seriously Final Fantasy fans where in outrage over  FF 13  SE annoucned  a remake of 6  and re-lease of 4 and silence.   Capcom fans mad  over MVC 3 for whatever reason -   Street fighter 3: Third Strike online  over XBL and PSN  gets released.