539 réponses à ce sujet

[Realmzmaster]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

You are correct about a certain RPG which also has plenty of combat to make up for it. But how many CRPGs do you know that have no combat and every situation is resolved diplomatically.

No one is askign for no variety though. But a certain variety would be nice and would help make Hawke feel less like a killing machine and nothing else, which is the sentiment I have towards him.

I am all for variety which is why I like puzzles ( Yea Legacy!) in a game and I like non-violent quest resolution. But many gamers are in it for the combat and/or story.

[Valo_Soren]

alex90c wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

alex90c wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...
I was told Hawke became Viscount, but I never got to actually play that part of the game. Which is a shame, because ruling Kirkwall is the only reason why I bought Dragon Age 2 in the first place.

I think that scenario is just bad. You are not given a choice, it's once again forced on you. With no other qualification other than Hawke being an excellent killing machine. And all the previous choices do not matter at all. And it's inconsequential anyways.

So yea, I felt that was a bad and awkward pat on the head.

^this

You could even say having a diplomatic Hawke personality was Bioware's way of satirising their own game since he'll still be a killing machine regardless of how "diplomatic" he is.

Both the warden and Hawke are killing machines. In most if not all Bioware games the main protagonist is a killing machine. In both DAO and DA2 most of the disputes are resolved through combat.

Combat is one of the hallmarks of CRPGS. Gamers want the cool gear, spells etc and then the ability to use them.
How many people want to play Dragon Age:The Diplomat? Or Dragon Age: Rise to Politics?

How many of you wanted to talk to Copy at the end of Legacy and help bring him into the light or did you want to have a bad ass final battle?
Many leaders have slaughtered their way to supremacy.  May not have stayed there long, but they did cut a bloody path.

Yes, the Warden is a killing machine, but there are plenty of situations you can resolve or places you can get past while avoiding confrontations. Take Lothering for example:

1 encounter (bandits on the highway) - you can intimidate to stop a battle
3 bandit groups outside Lothering which you can COMPLETELY skip
A whole load of wolves you can avoid if you don't accept the quest involving a child's mother
Spiders you can completely avoid in Old Barlin's quest (you can just make the venom w/o the toxin extracts from those spiders)
Bears you can avoid simply because ... you can

The only forced encounters in Lothering is the one just before leaving the place northwards against Darkspawn, you don't even have to recruit Leliana (and go up against Loghain's lackeys in there).

Compare this to Kirkwall at night where it's practically impossible to avoid encounters (trust me, i've tried going to Isabela during her recruitment quest and getting jumped by those Guardsman pretenders just when I think I've sneaked past them)

EVERY
DAMN
PLACE
YOU
GO

WAVES AND WAVES AND WAVES AND WAVES AND WAVES OF PARATROOPERS

what the hell were bioware thinking doing that? ffs.

they may not realise it, but gamers don't need to have combat shoved in their face (literally) every 30 seconds while travelling around places just to be able to keep their interest in the game. if I was bothered enough to annotate DA2's maps (including quest maps which of course are recycled) to show locations of combat encounters by circling them, there'd be more annotation than actually map by the time I was finished.

Yes. Those are called street gangs. They are attacking you because they want to rob, ravage, or murder you. Kill enough of them and you figure out where their hide out is as a quest, go and finish off their leader and you finish the quest and get a reward in gold from the girl at the Hanged Man. They aren't popping out of nowhere to have a nice conversation. It's similar to random attacks on the road in Origins.

[Valo_Soren]

Oops I posted that quote and reply twice on accident, my bad.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Realmzmaster wrote...

I am all for variety which is why I like puzzles ( Yea Legacy!) in a game and I like non-violent quest resolution. But many gamers are in it for the combat and/or story.

Then give options sometimes for those who want to fight, and those who don't. I am not asking for something like Deus Ex. Those who wnat to fight can, and in some quests, those who don't, don't.

And that flaw for me ends up affecting the story, quite substantially. Part of it is the glaring and painful story / gameplay segregation, and part of it is how I percieve Hawke.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 04 août 2011 - 07:56 .

[Valo_Soren]

[/quote]

I am all for variety which is why I like puzzles ( Yea Legacy!) in a game and I like non-violent quest resolution. But many gamers are in it for the combat and/or story.

[/quote]

If you can't violence your way out of everything what's the point in even playing the game in the first place.

[Valo_Soren]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

I am all for variety which is why I like puzzles ( Yea Legacy!) in a game and I like non-violent quest resolution. But many gamers are in it for the combat and/or story.

Then give options sometimes for those who want to fight, and those who don't. I am not asking for something like Deus Ex.

And that flaw for me ends up affecting the story, quite substantially. Part of it is the glaring and painful story / gameplay segregation, and part of it is how I percieve Hawke.

You're putting a tad to much thought into this my friend.

[alex90c]

Valo_Soren wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

alex90c wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...
I was told Hawke became Viscount, but I never got to actually play that part of the game. Which is a shame, because ruling Kirkwall is the only reason why I bought Dragon Age 2 in the first place.

I think that scenario is just bad. You are not given a choice, it's once again forced on you. With no other qualification other than Hawke being an excellent killing machine. And all the previous choices do not matter at all. And it's inconsequential anyways.

So yea, I felt that was a bad and awkward pat on the head.

^this

You could even say having a diplomatic Hawke personality was Bioware's way of satirising their own game since he'll still be a killing machine regardless of how "diplomatic" he is.

Both the warden and Hawke are killing machines. In most if not all Bioware games the main protagonist is a killing machine. In both DAO and DA2 most of the disputes are resolved through combat.

Combat is one of the hallmarks of CRPGS. Gamers want the cool gear, spells etc and then the ability to use them.
How many people want to play Dragon Age:The Diplomat? Or Dragon Age: Rise to Politics?

How many of you wanted to talk to Copy at the end of Legacy and help bring him into the light or did you want to have a bad ass final battle?
Many leaders have slaughtered their way to supremacy.  May not have stayed there long, but they did cut a bloody path.

Yes, the Warden is a killing machine, but there are plenty of situations you can resolve or places you can get past while avoiding confrontations. Take Lothering for example:

1 encounter (bandits on the highway) - you can intimidate to stop a battle
3 bandit groups outside Lothering which you can COMPLETELY skip
A whole load of wolves you can avoid if you don't accept the quest involving a child's mother
Spiders you can completely avoid in Old Barlin's quest (you can just make the venom w/o the toxin extracts from those spiders)
Bears you can avoid simply because ... you can

The only forced encounters in Lothering is the one just before leaving the place northwards against Darkspawn, you don't even have to recruit Leliana (and go up against Loghain's lackeys in there).

Compare this to Kirkwall at night where it's practically impossible to avoid encounters (trust me, i've tried going to Isabela during her recruitment quest and getting jumped by those Guardsman pretenders just when I think I've sneaked past them)

EVERY
DAMN
PLACE
YOU
GO

WAVES AND WAVES AND WAVES AND WAVES AND WAVES OF PARATROOPERS

what the hell were bioware thinking doing that? ffs.

they may not realise it, but gamers don't need to have combat shoved in their face (literally) every 30 seconds while travelling around places just to be able to keep their interest in the game. if I was bothered enough to annotate DA2's maps (including quest maps which of course are recycled) to show locations of combat encounters by circling them, there'd be more annotation than actually map by the time I was finished.

Yes. Those are called street gangs. They are attacking you because they want to rob, ravage, or murder you. Kill enough of them and you figure out where their hide out is as a quest, go and finish off their leader and you finish the quest and get a reward in gold from the girl at the Hanged Man. They aren't popping out of nowhere to have a nice conversation. It's similar to random attacks on the road in Origins.

Denerim had street thugs you could deal with. Did you know those were OPTIONAL too? As in, I didn't get waves of paratroopers shoved down my throat repeatedly? Suffice it to say, I didn't find killing in excess of 150 faceless mooks in each part of Kirkwall fun in the slightest, hell Hawke probably racked a death toll of over 1,000 easily by the end of act 1 - y'know, the act where he's trying to lay low and try not to get noticed by the templars? Yeah, he's going round mass murdering everything that moves.

Modifié par alex90c, 04 août 2011 - 07:58 .

[Realmzmaster]

Addai67 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
No the wardens would sense any darkspawn in the area according to lore.The attack on Redcliffe was a feint. The purpose was to throw off the main intent. Riordan confirms that when he reports that the darkspawn army is moving to Denerim.  The darkspawn would not ignore the call of the ArchDemon to move amass to Denerim due to their hive mentality. So Redcliffe was safe.

Like they sensed that the horde in Ostagar was much larger than anticipated, that they were coming up through the Ishal tunnels, the Warden not knowing that the archdemon was in the Dead Trenches, and none of them knowing til they got in Redcliffe that the archdemon was moving towards Denerim instead?  The Wardens in Vigil's Keep not knowing they were about to be mauled?  Darkspawn move underground, and Warden sense seems to be a bit chancy.  Leaving your family behind in Redcliffe is no less risky than putting your family on a ship to Kirkwall.  Hawke just sticking her head in the ground and hoping someone solves the blight problem somehow is pretty lame.

Then I guess that Alistair statement that they can sense us and we can sense them is wrong. You are assuming that the Wardens did not sense them coming at Vigil's Keep. They probably sense them coming but were ill prepared to handle them. Also moving underground does not preclude detection. Plus all the darkspawn would heed the call of the ArchDemon which is going to Denerium. No darkspawn are left in the outlying areas that you come across.

[phaonica]

andrastesASS wrote...

The entire story is MADE to show how you react to things beyond your control.

But I feel like the only reason things are out of my control is because the game forbids me from taking initiative. To me it feels like the entire story is made to show that no matter what choices you make, no matter how you react, none of it matters because the conflict is beyond your control.

When I play Hawke, I feel like a character that could have made a difference, but didn't. I don't hate Hawke, but I don't like him/her as much as more proactive characters.

Just because the character is *intended* to be reactive doesn't mean that I have to like that character, or like playing the character.

As for choices not having consequences, do you honestly think that everything you’ve done in DA2 and DAO won’t make a difference in DA3?

Such as? No matter what choices Hawke makes, the mage war starts, and the Qunari are driven out of Kirkwall. And considering how little impact my choices in DAO affected the main conflicts of DA2, why would I think that any of my choices in DA2 would matter in DA3?

[Cutlass Jack]

alex90c wrote...

Denerim had street thugs you could deal with. Did you know those were OPTIONAL too? As in, I didn't get waves of paratroopers shoved down my throat repeatedly? Suffice it to say, I didn't find killing in excess of 150 faceless mooks in each part of Kirkwall fun in the slightest, hell Hawke probably racked a death toll of over 1,000 easily by the end of act 1 - y'know, the act where he's trying to lay low and try not to get noticed by the templars? Yeah, he's going round mass murdering everything that moves.

Its not mass murder if they attack you. Its self defense. Its not Hawke's fault as a character that everyone he runs into continually takes peaceful options off the table. Its a fault of the game, certainly.

But I'm one of the few who actually enjoyed the colorfuly themed street gangs jumping you at night. It reminded me of the Warriors.

[Valo_Soren]

alex90c wrote...

Valo_Soren wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

alex90c wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...
I was told Hawke became Viscount, but I never got to actually play that part of the game. Which is a shame, because ruling Kirkwall is the only reason why I bought Dragon Age 2 in the first place.

I think that scenario is just bad. You are not given a choice, it's once again forced on you. With no other qualification other than Hawke being an excellent killing machine. And all the previous choices do not matter at all. And it's inconsequential anyways.

So yea, I felt that was a bad and awkward pat on the head.

^this

You could even say having a diplomatic Hawke personality was Bioware's way of satirising their own game since he'll still be a killing machine regardless of how "diplomatic" he is.

Both the warden and Hawke are killing machines. In most if not all Bioware games the main protagonist is a killing machine. In both DAO and DA2 most of the disputes are resolved through combat.

Combat is one of the hallmarks of CRPGS. Gamers want the cool gear, spells etc and then the ability to use them.
How many people want to play Dragon Age:The Diplomat? Or Dragon Age: Rise to Politics?

How many of you wanted to talk to Copy at the end of Legacy and help bring him into the light or did you want to have a bad ass final battle?
Many leaders have slaughtered their way to supremacy.  May not have stayed there long, but they did cut a bloody path.

Yes, the Warden is a killing machine, but there are plenty of situations you can resolve or places you can get past while avoiding confrontations. Take Lothering for example:

1 encounter (bandits on the highway) - you can intimidate to stop a battle
3 bandit groups outside Lothering which you can COMPLETELY skip
A whole load of wolves you can avoid if you don't accept the quest involving a child's mother
Spiders you can completely avoid in Old Barlin's quest (you can just make the venom w/o the toxin extracts from those spiders)
Bears you can avoid simply because ... you can

The only forced encounters in Lothering is the one just before leaving the place northwards against Darkspawn, you don't even have to recruit Leliana (and go up against Loghain's lackeys in there).

Compare this to Kirkwall at night where it's practically impossible to avoid encounters (trust me, i've tried going to Isabela during her recruitment quest and getting jumped by those Guardsman pretenders just when I think I've sneaked past them)

EVERY
DAMN
PLACE
YOU
GO

WAVES AND WAVES AND WAVES AND WAVES AND WAVES OF PARATROOPERS

what the hell were bioware thinking doing that? ffs.

they may not realise it, but gamers don't need to have combat shoved in their face (literally) every 30 seconds while travelling around places just to be able to keep their interest in the game. if I was bothered enough to annotate DA2's maps (including quest maps which of course are recycled) to show locations of combat encounters by circling them, there'd be more annotation than actually map by the time I was finished.

Yes. Those are called street gangs. They are attacking you because they want to rob, ravage, or murder you. Kill enough of them and you figure out where their hide out is as a quest, go and finish off their leader and you finish the quest and get a reward in gold from the girl at the Hanged Man. They aren't popping out of nowhere to have a nice conversation. It's similar to random attacks on the road in Origins.

Denerim had street thugs you could deal with. Did you know those were OPTIONAL too? As in, I didn't get waves of paratroopers shoved down my throat repeatedly? Suffice it to say, I didn't find killing in excess of 150 faceless mooks in each part of Kirkwall fun in the slightest, hell Hawke probably racked a death toll of over 1,000 easily by the end of act 1 - y'know, the act where he's trying to lay low and try not to get noticed by the templars? Yeah, he's going round mass murdering everything that moves.

The templars aren't going to care who is killing a bunch of street thugs. It's not mass murder it's self defense, they are ATTACKING you. I find it fun and makes the whole violent, unstable city of Kirkwall, violent and unstable like it's supposed to be. If I walked around empty streets I would be thinking 'gee these people don't look upset, they are kind of just standing around'. It adds flair to the game and is easy gold and since the combat is probably my favorite part of the game I enjoy as much of it as I can get.

[Valo_Soren]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Denerim had street thugs you could deal with. Did you know those were OPTIONAL too? As in, I didn't get waves of paratroopers shoved down my throat repeatedly? Suffice it to say, I didn't find killing in excess of 150 faceless mooks in each part of Kirkwall fun in the slightest, hell Hawke probably racked a death toll of over 1,000 easily by the end of act 1 - y'know, the act where he's trying to lay low and try not to get noticed by the templars? Yeah, he's going round mass murdering everything that moves.

Its not mass murder if they attack you. Its self defense. Its not Hawke's fault as a character that everyone he runs into continually takes peaceful options off the table. Its a fault of the game, certainly.

But I'm one of the few who actually enjoyed the colorfuly themed street gangs jumping you at night. It reminded me of the Warriors.

Agreed, good point.

[Valo_Soren]

And another point, the gangs mostly attacked at night, or in the undercity/darktown and even then only occasionally in dark town so recommendation if it annoys you, do most of the day time quests first in each act. -shrug-

[nitefyre410]

Guys please Snip.

Plus Valo is right in one aspect Kirkwall is a rather violent place it would not be right with out street ganes. How the spawn is mechanical issues. Games have had issues with enemy spawning for years. Play WoW enemies can appear right on top of you. Heck in some quest hubs where spawn rates adjust do to traffic you get have enemies spawn instantly right after you kill em.

[alex90c]

Valo_Soren wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Valo_Soren wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

alex90c wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...
I was told Hawke became Viscount, but I never got to actually play that part of the game. Which is a shame, because ruling Kirkwall is the only reason why I bought Dragon Age 2 in the first place.

I think that scenario is just bad. You are not given a choice, it's once again forced on you. With no other qualification other than Hawke being an excellent killing machine. And all the previous choices do not matter at all. And it's inconsequential anyways.

So yea, I felt that was a bad and awkward pat on the head.

^this

You could even say having a diplomatic Hawke personality was Bioware's way of satirising their own game since he'll still be a killing machine regardless of how "diplomatic" he is.

Both the warden and Hawke are killing machines. In most if not all Bioware games the main protagonist is a killing machine. In both DAO and DA2 most of the disputes are resolved through combat.

Combat is one of the hallmarks of CRPGS. Gamers want the cool gear, spells etc and then the ability to use them.
How many people want to play Dragon Age:The Diplomat? Or Dragon Age: Rise to Politics?

How many of you wanted to talk to Copy at the end of Legacy and help bring him into the light or did you want to have a bad ass final battle?
Many leaders have slaughtered their way to supremacy.  May not have stayed there long, but they did cut a bloody path.

Yes, the Warden is a killing machine, but there are plenty of situations you can resolve or places you can get past while avoiding confrontations. Take Lothering for example:

1 encounter (bandits on the highway) - you can intimidate to stop a battle
3 bandit groups outside Lothering which you can COMPLETELY skip
A whole load of wolves you can avoid if you don't accept the quest involving a child's mother
Spiders you can completely avoid in Old Barlin's quest (you can just make the venom w/o the toxin extracts from those spiders)
Bears you can avoid simply because ... you can

The only forced encounters in Lothering is the one just before leaving the place northwards against Darkspawn, you don't even have to recruit Leliana (and go up against Loghain's lackeys in there).

Compare this to Kirkwall at night where it's practically impossible to avoid encounters (trust me, i've tried going to Isabela during her recruitment quest and getting jumped by those Guardsman pretenders just when I think I've sneaked past them)

EVERY
DAMN
PLACE
YOU
GO

WAVES AND WAVES AND WAVES AND WAVES AND WAVES OF PARATROOPERS

what the hell were bioware thinking doing that? ffs.

they may not realise it, but gamers don't need to have combat shoved in their face (literally) every 30 seconds while travelling around places just to be able to keep their interest in the game. if I was bothered enough to annotate DA2's maps (including quest maps which of course are recycled) to show locations of combat encounters by circling them, there'd be more annotation than actually map by the time I was finished.

Yes. Those are called street gangs. They are attacking you because they want to rob, ravage, or murder you. Kill enough of them and you figure out where their hide out is as a quest, go and finish off their leader and you finish the quest and get a reward in gold from the girl at the Hanged Man. They aren't popping out of nowhere to have a nice conversation. It's similar to random attacks on the road in Origins.

Denerim had street thugs you could deal with. Did you know those were OPTIONAL too? As in, I didn't get waves of paratroopers shoved down my throat repeatedly? Suffice it to say, I didn't find killing in excess of 150 faceless mooks in each part of Kirkwall fun in the slightest, hell Hawke probably racked a death toll of over 1,000 easily by the end of act 1 - y'know, the act where he's trying to lay low and try not to get noticed by the templars? Yeah, he's going round mass murdering everything that moves.

The templars aren't going to care who is killing a bunch of street thugs. It's not mass murder it's self defense, they are ATTACKING you. I find it fun and makes the whole violent, unstable city of Kirkwall, violent and unstable like it's supposed to be. If I walked around empty streets I would be thinking 'gee these people don't look upset, they are kind of just standing around'. It adds flair to the game and is easy gold and since the combat is probably my favorite part of the game I enjoy as much of it as I can get.

The templars aren't going to care that for the past year (act 1) some guy has been casting ice, fire, lightning and god-knows what spells to repeatedly massacre gangs all across Kirkwall? What, do you think they're brainde- wait don't answer that, everyone on Kirkwall got hit with a serious case of stupid anyway.

I'm sorry, but there must be a better way to represent a violent and unstable city than the main character repeatedly getting jumped by the Sharpe, Redwater and Guardsman Pretender parachute divisions non-stop. I mean, letting Hawke getting involved in Lowtown politics trying to gain the upper hand with his own gang, other gangs trying to undermine each other, perhaps smuggling lyrium to templars to get them to overlook what the crimes they had been committing and things like that would show a chaotic city without a strong government, but WAVES WAVES WAVES WAVES WAVES just makes it feel "well the game developers wanted to appeal to a wider audience so they chucked in combat every 30 seconds".

[KnightofPhoenix]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Its not mass murder if they attack you. Its self defense. Its not Hawke's fault as a character that everyone he runs into continually takes peaceful options off the table. Its a fault of the game, certainly.

Which ends up affecting my opinion on the character I am forced to play (I never take the PC especially in isolation, especially when he is not set). Not once were I given the opportunity and was shown that Hawke is actually intelligent and capable of doing anything besides mass violence.

Stuff like that really ****** me off.

[Aeowyn]

Addai67 wrote...

Aeowyn wrote...
Just because they were in the army it doesn't mean that they were actually trained soldiers in the King's Army.

..... You're... stretching at this point.

I'm not stretching. This is the point I've tried to make during my last two posts........

Half the army was gone and the rest were left to fend for themselves. I'm sorry, but your notion that Hawke would be able to regroup somewhere to fight Loghain is pretty unreasonable.

Yet somehow Bann Teagan and some in the Bannorn still felt compelled to do it.

YES, because the Bannorn had their leaders, and based on the DAO timeline they didn't begin until much later. What did Hawke have? The Arl of Lothering (or was it Bann?) had taken his army and joined Loghain.

IIRC Carver was injured during that battle, and by the time he was well enough the darkspawn were approaching Lothering.

It says they've been running since Ostagar, and once again, this is not about staying in Lothering.


It's certainly possible that staying in Ferelden to fight would not have made any difference.  Then, however, I could see Hawke as a tragic figure, rather than just a coward or someone who's basically in it for herself.

No I can see that now. You wouldn't be happy unless it was yet another game set in Ferelden with the protagonist fighting the Blight.......again.

And respected family? Yeah okay, obviously you missed the part where the Amell name no longer meant anything in Kirkwall and that Gamlen had to bribe smugglers/mercenaries with the Hawke siblings in order to be able to let them through the gates.

They didn't know that until they got to Kirkwall.

And yet again I'm pointing out that you've obviously never had to care for a weaker family member, or you'd never come with these things.

[Realmzmaster]

alex90c wrote...

Valo_Soren wrote...

alex90c wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...

alex90c wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

ArcanistLibram wrote...
I was told Hawke became Viscount, but I never got to actually play that part of the game. Which is a shame, because ruling Kirkwall is the only reason why I bought Dragon Age 2 in the first place.

I think that scenario is just bad. You are not given a choice, it's once again forced on you. With no other qualification other than Hawke being an excellent killing machine. And all the previous choices do not matter at all. And it's inconsequential anyways.

So yea, I felt that was a bad and awkward pat on the head.

^this

You could even say having a diplomatic Hawke personality was Bioware's way of satirising their own game since he'll still be a killing machine regardless of how "diplomatic" he is.

Both the warden and Hawke are killing machines. In most if not all Bioware games the main protagonist is a killing machine. In both DAO and DA2 most of the disputes are resolved through combat.

Combat is one of the hallmarks of CRPGS. Gamers want the cool gear, spells etc and then the ability to use them.
How many people want to play Dragon Age:The Diplomat? Or Dragon Age: Rise to Politics?

How many of you wanted to talk to Copy at the end of Legacy and help bring him into the light or did you want to have a bad ass final battle?
Many leaders have slaughtered their way to supremacy.  May not have stayed there long, but they did cut a bloody path.

Yes, the Warden is a killing machine, but there are plenty of situations you can resolve or places you can get past while avoiding confrontations. Take Lothering for example:

1 encounter (bandits on the highway) - you can intimidate to stop a battle
3 bandit groups outside Lothering which you can COMPLETELY skip
A whole load of wolves you can avoid if you don't accept the quest involving a child's mother
Spiders you can completely avoid in Old Barlin's quest (you can just make the venom w/o the toxin extracts from those spiders)
Bears you can avoid simply because ... you can

The only forced encounters in Lothering is the one just before leaving the place northwards against Darkspawn, you don't even have to recruit Leliana (and go up against Loghain's lackeys in there).

Compare this to Kirkwall at night where it's practically impossible to avoid encounters (trust me, i've tried going to Isabela during her recruitment quest and getting jumped by those Guardsman pretenders just when I think I've sneaked past them)

EVERY
DAMN
PLACE
YOU
GO

WAVES AND WAVES AND WAVES AND WAVES AND WAVES OF PARATROOPERS

what the hell were bioware thinking doing that? ffs.

they may not realise it, but gamers don't need to have combat shoved in their face (literally) every 30 seconds while travelling around places just to be able to keep their interest in the game. if I was bothered enough to annotate DA2's maps (including quest maps which of course are recycled) to show locations of combat encounters by circling them, there'd be more annotation than actually map by the time I was finished.

Yes. Those are called street gangs. They are attacking you because they want to rob, ravage, or murder you. Kill enough of them and you figure out where their hide out is as a quest, go and finish off their leader and you finish the quest and get a reward in gold from the girl at the Hanged Man. They aren't popping out of nowhere to have a nice conversation. It's similar to random attacks on the road in Origins.

Denerim had street thugs you could deal with. Did you know those were OPTIONAL too? As in, I didn't get waves of paratroopers shoved down my throat repeatedly? Suffice it to say, I didn't find killing in excess of 150 faceless mooks in each part of Kirkwall fun in the slightest, hell Hawke probably racked a death toll of over 1,000 easily by the end of act 1 - y'know, the act where he's trying to lay low and try not to get noticed by the templars? Yeah, he's going round mass murdering everything that moves.

You are walking around Lowtown or the Docks at night and you do not expect to get attacked by street gangs, or muggers? If dispatching some of these street gang members you do not expect the gang to want revenge.?

I was disappointed when the street gangs did not try to attack your home or Gamlen's hovel for revenge.
The warden killed as many darkspawn and humans as Hawke. Ostagar alone had you killing many darkspawn. As I said all Bioware PC are killing machines. The body count in both games is funny.

Modifié par Realmzmaster, 04 août 2011 - 08:14 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

nitefyre410 wrote...
Plus Valo is right in one aspect Kirkwall is a rather violent place it would not be right with out street ganes. 

Involve street gangs in a story / sub plot (like say the smugglers in Amaranthine). Have options to say participate in gang wars if you want.

Don't throw idiots at me all night in the wave load and expect me to give a damn or enjoy it.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 04 août 2011 - 08:16 .

[phaonica]

Addai67 wrote...
  Hawke just sticking her head in the ground and hoping someone solves the blight problem somehow is pretty lame.

FWIW, Addai, I agree with your sentiment that it was kind of lame for Hawke to want to abandon Ferelden. Clearly he considered Lothering to be "home" and not Ferelden. Which is fine, except (in my playthroughs, at least) Hawke never expressed any desire to fight back. He knew that *some* army was going to be fighting the Blight, and while getting your family to safety first is understandable, Hawke never expressed that he (or his capable siblings) would help fight against the Blight. Instead they'd get to safety and let someone else fight the Blight.

Modifié par phaonica, 04 août 2011 - 08:15 .

[nitefyre410]

alex90c wrote...

*snip*

The templars aren't going to care that for the past year (act 1) some guy has been casting ice, fire, lightning and god-knows what spells to repeatedly massacre gangs all across Kirkwall? What, do you think they're brainde- wait don't answer that, everyone on Kirkwall got hit with a serious case of stupid anyway.

I'm sorry, but there must be a better way to represent a violent and unstable city than the main character repeatedly getting jumped by the Sharpe, Redwater and Guardsman Pretender parachute divisions non-stop. I mean, letting Hawke getting involved in Lowtown politics trying to gain the upper hand with his own gang, other gangs trying to undermine each other, perhaps smuggling lyrium to templars to get them to overlook what the crimes they had been committing and things like that would show a chaotic city without a strong government, but WAVES WAVES WAVES WAVES WAVES just makes it feel "well the game developers wanted to appeal to a wider audience so they chucked in combat every 30 seconds".

You right there is... they needed to get rid of the quick travel map as the main method of travel..   If the actually opened the city and let you  travel the streets  to get from  Hightown to  say Darktown  then it would not have seem so bad  cause you have ally's and  dark corners for these guys to hide in and attack the player while there out at night. Allowing to pick you path and aviod them.

[Addai]

Realmzmaster wrote...
Then I guess that Alistair statement that they can sense us and we can sense them is wrong. You are assuming that the Wardens did not sense them coming at Vigil's Keep. They probably sense them coming but were ill prepared to handle them. Also moving underground does not preclude detection. Plus all the darkspawn would heed the call of the ArchDemon which is going to Denerium. No darkspawn are left in the outlying areas that you come across.

I gave numerous examples where the Wardens' ability to sense darkspawn is iffy at best.  At Vigil's Keep they do sense them, but too late to do any good.  Which is exactly what could happen in Redcliffe or anywhere else in Ferelden- take your pick.

This is getting silly.  The point is, Leandra traveling with the younger sibling who can fight has more protection than most civilians as it is.  There's no compelling reason for Hawke to go to Kirkwall, being the badass fighter that she is supposed to be- except that she doesn't care much about anyone but herself.  If you don't mind roleplaying such a character, I'm happy for you.  I find Hawke very uninspiring and not sympathetic.

Modifié par Addai67, 04 août 2011 - 08:23 .

[cmessaz]

Addai so what you are saying is to fight the blight all Hawke had to do is fight with the Bannorn army...well then doesn't that make my warden a complete moron for running around collecting treaties when s/he could have done the same? I'm sorry but sometimes people just start spouting random things to justify their hate and no offense but that is what this sounds like to me.

[Addai]

cmessaz wrote...

Addai so what you are saying is to fight the blight all Hawke had to do is fight with the Bannorn army...well then doesn't that make my warden a complete moron for running around collecting treaties when s/he could have done the same? I'm sorry but sometimes people just start spouting random things to justify their hate and no offense but that is what this sounds like to me.

Hawke believes Ferelden has fallen victim to Loghain's treachery.  So what does she do about it... "see ya suckers!"  Inspiring.     And that pretty much sums up her approach to dealing with things in Kirkwall, too.

I don't care if you don't find this a hindrance to getting into the character.  If it works for you, that's great.  For me it's but one reason why I dislike this PC.  "Spouting random things"- well, whatever.  I suppose that can describe anything anyone posts on the board, if you happen not to agree with it.

[Realmzmaster]

Addai67 wrote...

Realmzmaster wrote...
Then I guess that Alistair statement that they can sense us and we can sense them is wrong. You are assuming that the Wardens did not sense them coming at Vigil's Keep. They probably sense them coming but were ill prepared to handle them. Also moving underground does not preclude detection. Plus all the darkspawn would heed the call of the ArchDemon which is going to Denerium. No darkspawn are left in the outlying areas that you come across.

I gave numerous examples where the Wardens' ability to sense darkspawn is iffy at best.  At Vigil's Keep they do sense them, but too late to do any good.  Which is exactly what could happen in Redcliffe or anywhere else in Ferelden- take your pick.

This is getting silly.  The point is, Leandra traveling with the younger sibling who can fight has more protection than most civilians as it is.  There's no compelling reason for Hawke to go to Kirkwall, being the badass fighter that she is supposed to be- except that she doesn't care much about anyone but herself.  If you don't mind roleplaying such a character, I'm happy for you.  I find Hawke very uninspiring and not sympathetic.

I do not mind roleplaying such a character because I see the character completely different from you.
So we will have to agree to disagree.