539 réponses à ce sujet

[Davasar]

Hate Hawke?

No, I do not hate Hawke.

I have absolutely zero investment in this character.

And as a result, the game held the same amount of interest for me.

Get it through your heads, in RPGS like this, the game is the character, because that's who the player is playing.

If the game is hated, the character is hated because of poor quality, lack of choice or whatever.

The two go hand in hand whether you want to believe that is fair or not.

I'll give Bioware some advice. Get back a realistic development cycle, make racial and playing choices in the game important and relevant, and let the playing decide if his rogue wants to use a sword, then he can, or if he wants his warrior to use a bow, then he can, etc...

This will go a long way in fixing the disaster of DA2

If not, then keep doing what you are doing Bioware, that way you can help EA keep its sterling track record of destroying franchises and studios.

[errant_knight]

Auroras wrote...

 Hey guys, I'm not trying to troll, I honestly would like to know: why do people hate Hawke so much? S/he's not that bad of a character. I actually enjoyed playing as her. 

Could I get some non-flamey, non-troll-y opinions, please?

I don't hate Hawke at all. He felt like an NPC to me, although one that I had more control over, but as far as characters go, I quite liked him. More than most of the other NPCs, really.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Auroras wrote...

 Hey guys, I'm not trying to troll, I honestly would like to know: why do people hate Hawke so much? S/he's not that bad of a character. I actually enjoyed playing as her. 

Could I get some non-flamey, non-troll-y opinions, please?

I do not look at protagonists in isolation.

If a PC is projected on what I see as a poorly written story, in a badly structured plot, in a lifeless and unresponsive setting, with a not so active role, then it's going to be very hard for me to like the PC.

I do like the VO, and to a certain extent, the dominant personality thing. But that's not enough to change the fact that Hawke is my least favorite RPG protagonists, for the reasons stated above.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 20 juillet 2011 - 05:26 .

[mousestalker]

I don't hate Hawke. The femHawke voice was very well done. I'm less impressed with the maleHawke voice, but that's probably because I kept expecting him to abduct elves.

I rather liked the lines the viewpoint character was given. femHawke looked a great deal like an 80's fashion model, but she did rock the look. The mirror in the Black Emporium is addictive as all get out.

I don't even dislike DA2. I just think DAO was better.

[rak72]

There is this on scene where Hawk is trying to get some information from a dock worker. He can offer him a bribe or pull out a knife and threaten him. He pulls out the knife all bad ass and the dock worker just laughs in his face. Hawk ends up needing to bribe him anyway & looks like a total fool. That kind of sums Hawk up for me.

[TheAwesomologist]

rak72 wrote...

There is this on scene where Hawk is trying to get some information from a dock worker. He can offer him a bribe or pull out a knife and threaten him. He pulls out the knife all bad ass and the dock worker just laughs in his face. Hawk ends up needing to bribe him anyway & looks like a total fool. That kind of sums Hawk up for me.

If you play an aggressive Hawke then the assistant harbor master will be properly intimidated. That something where the dominant personality can change the conversation. I'd prefer that it just wasn't an option to non-aggressive Hawkes same how the "Fire!" scene later on in the same quest I believe only appears for Sarcastic Hawke.
Just another area where the dominant voice thing just needs some work. Having one or two lines be different isn't always enough of a difference, especially since anyone playing a second or more times will be skipping conversations.

[Chromie]

Hawke doesn't have enough depth to make the switch to a set protagonist and is too dumb and helpless to effect the game.

Modifié par Ringo12, 20 juillet 2011 - 06:38 .

[Zjarcal]

It's mostly hate by association. A lot of people hate DA2 and since Hawke is the face of DA2, they hate him/her.

Not me mind you, but that's pretty much the case for all the Hawke haters.

[macrocarl]

I love DA2 and so love my Hawkes. I thought the different tones you could choose was brilliant. Ifound myself laughing a lot at how funny he is about everything. This whole 'proactive' vs. 'reactive' thing is an opinion that I don't share. Also, being reactive to situations arrising is not a bad thing to me. I thought of my Hawke more as a super hero/ fireman flying around putting out fires and making out with pirates. I wish that was my job.

[Reaverwind]

Zjarcal wrote...

It's mostly hate by association. A lot of people hate DA2 and since Hawke is the face of DA2, they hate him/her.

Not me mind you, but that's pretty much the case for all the Hawke haters.

The story was supposed to be about Hawke, and his supposed rise to power. What we got was Hawke stumbling around playing errand boy, until he's declared champion for killing someone in a battle by the person whose forces are actually responsible for winning said battle. Then, he plays errand boy some more until the farcical end which requires some serious drugs to adequately suspend disbelief. This ending includes companions who side with you due to behind-the-scenes "game-balancing" when they have no business doing so if your character takes a certain stance. All that, combined with the immersion-destroying gameplay story segregation, sloppy world development, and wave encounters for Dummies 101 are enough to guarantee DA3 to be a no-sale if Hawke is in it.

Modifié par Reaverwind, 20 juillet 2011 - 07:11 .

[axl99]

And here I thought it was because there were people upset because they couldn't choose their race, gender, origin stories and play the infallible hero off saving the world for the second time round.

[mousestalker]

Ringo12 wrote...

Hawke doesn't have enough depth to make the switch to a set protagonist and is too dumb and helpless to effect the game.

Just because Hawke is easy to fathom doesn't mean she doesn't have depth. Isabella certainly didn't complain. The voiced protagnist ensures that Hawke is never dumb. If Hawke doesn't move about and do things the game never completes, so Hawke does in fact effect the game.

[TEWR]

DA2's story was horrendous due to the fact that it was comprised of 3 acts loosely connected to one another and didn't expand on the two primary things DA2 was supposed to cover:

1) Who is the Champion of Kirkwall?
2) The Mage-Templar conflict.

Had all 3 acts been connected to those two things in significant fashion, the game would've been better (choice should also matter). Had Hawke been able to actually lead the Mage Underground or crush it, the game would've been better.

[axl99]

Thought this thread about Hawke, and not necessarily the plot in DA2. Or how it could be "better".

Modifié par axl99, 20 juillet 2011 - 07:32 .

[bleetman]

Because when Aveline accuses Hawke of "stumbling into becoming champion", she's right on the money.

For me, I don't hate Hawke. I don't even dislike Hawke. But I can't say as I ever felt attached to Hawke.

Some context might have helped. I found it particularly hard to make any real earl-on decisions based on how I figured Hawke would respond, because I had no idea how Hawke would respond. I knew hardly anything about her. Even the rudimentary background/psychology options in ME1 game me an initial understanding of who Shepard was before I ever laid eyes on her. Hawke starts off as a stranger surrounded by strangers.

Modifié par bleetman, 20 juillet 2011 - 07:36 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Reaverwind wrote...
All that, combined with the immersion-destroying gameplay story segregation, sloppy world development, and wave encounters for Dummies 101 are enough to guarantee DA3 to be a no-sale if Hawke is in it.

While I wouldn't say it would be a definite no-buy, Hawke being in DA3 would make me lose even more interest in the franchise than I already have. Cassandra's idiocy at the end pisses me off. And I wouldn't want to see the Warden again because of it.

[KnightofPhoenix]

axl99 wrote...

We're talking about Hawke. Not the plot in DA2.

They cannot be isolated from each other. Hawke is not an established character outside of the game.

[axl99]

It was my way of saying stay on topic.

[TEWR]

Hawke and the plot of DA2 are intertwined and relate to each other, just like the Warden relates to DA:O's plot.


They are not separate.

[axl99]

Semantics.

That's like saying "I HATE THIS CHARACTER BECAUSE THE PLOT IS SO BAD AND THE CHARACTER DOESN'T CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING TO IT."

That's just avoiding the topic at hand. The character Hawke in an of itself is a representation of how players chose to assert themselves.

Modifié par axl99, 20 juillet 2011 - 07:42 .

[hoorayforicecream]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Hawke and the plot of DA2 are intertwined and relate to each other, just like the Warden relates to DA:O's plot.


They are not separate.

Kratos is intertwined and related to the plot of God of War. That doesn't make him incapable of being evaluated outside of the context of the game, or imagining how he might act in new scenarios outside of the established games. The inability to separate the two is an individual failing, not a universal one.

[KnightofPhoenix]

axl99 wrote...

Semantics.

That's like saying "I HATE THIS CHARACTER BECAUSE THE PLOT IS SO BAD AND THE CHARACTER DOESN'T CONTRIBUTE ANYTHING TO IT."

That's just avoiding the topic at hand. The character Hawke in an of itself is a representation of how players chose to assert themselves.

No, it's not avoiding the topic at all.

Hawke is not a pre-established character, he / she is established by the game. Nor is he / she a set character that we can just discuss independently. And it's hard to find a protagonist interesting if the story he is in is not deemed so.

The players can't really assert themseves, the story is virtually the exact same regardless of choice and dominant personality.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 20 juillet 2011 - 07:52 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
Kratos is intertwined and related to the plot of God of War. That doesn't make him incapable of being evaluated outside of the context of the game, or imagining how he might act in new scenarios outside of the established games. The inability to separate the two is an individual failing, not a universal one.

Kratos is a set protagonist, Hawke is not.
And yes, Kratos is as interesting as the story he is in, seeing how he is established by it.

Imagining what Kratos would do is a meaningless excercise and not a speculation-free discussion of his character, which can only be done in the context of the story he is in.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 20 juillet 2011 - 07:52 .

[axl99]

I don't like repeating myself.

Hawke is a character we establish ourselves. Either we choose to live through Hawke or we act as a conscience.

[KnightofPhoenix]

axl99 wrote...

I don't like repeating myself.

Hawke is a character we establish ourselves. Either we choose to live through Hawke or we act as a conscience.

You mean we choose one of the 3 personality types.
As for choosing to "live through Hawke" or "act as a conscience", whatever that means, what does that have to do with Hawke as a character?

I certainly could not live through Hawke because of the railroading that I wouldn't have allowed myself to fall in, in addition to the inaction. And I don't know what "we act as a conscience" means.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 20 juillet 2011 - 07:57 .