539 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Because his story was meant to be one of being a proactive person with occasional reactiveness. Someone who rises from refugee to Champion, builds connections, amasses wealth, uses his brains as well as his brawn, etc. .

Instead, he is a reactive protagonist with the occasional instance of being proactive. Which is largely the same as the Warden. That's his greatest fault. With the Warden, the illusion of choice was done well enough to make him likable. Then there's also the fact that the Warden is supposed to react to the Darkspawn. Sometimes the Warden would make proactive decisions, but not many to actually call him a proactive person.

DA2's story (which is Hawke's story in regards to the Mage-Templar conflict) was meant to be one of being proactive. But due to Hawke's character and the very loosely tied together Acts, people don't like Hawke as much as they could've

Pretty much this. I wanted a proactive protagonist who used his intellect to "rise to power," and instead I received a reactive character who simply killed a lot of people and stumbled onto being Champion.

[nitefyre410]

Skydiver8888 wrote...

I think people have issues with Hawke because they have issues with the story of DA2 as a standalone game. Why? Because the story of DA2 taken in a vacuum is a completely different genre than the vast majority of fantasy RPGs, books, and movies that are out there.

DAO, Lord of the Rings, anything by Terry Brooks, etc etc etc Are all the "epic" genre. You know, the MC is a the hero set on a quest to save the world by either killing the big bad thing or doing something glaringly heroic.

DA2...is not that. DA2 is, I think, more closely related to the Slice of Life genre that some movies and anime follow. Hawke is just a guy/girl trying to get by in the world (who happens to have some unique talents), has some crap things happen, has some great things happen, but much like you or I, really doesn't have all that much control of the greater world around him.  And sin of all sins...he/she actually FAILS. 

And that's why people don't like Hawke. Because they don't want to buy a fantasy RPG to play an average Joe. They want to be the HERO WHO SAVES THE WOOOOOOOORRRRRRLLLDDD! And there's nothing wrong with that.  But some people who don't hate Hawke (myself included) recognize that everyone has a story.  You, me, Hawke, that bum on the corner.  Hawke lived, loved, fought, bled, and ultimately failed.  doesn't mean she/he is a horrible character.  Hamlet didn't do so hot, either.  But most gamers don't want to play Hamlet.  They want to play the Warden, or Wesley/Buttercup, or Cinderella.

The trouble with DA2 isn't that the story is horrible or the writing is bad. I would argue that taken in a "slice of life" context, the story and writing are actually done well. it's that neither of those things are what we've come to expect from an RPG.

The problem is that most people bought DA2 and played it looking through a lens that was completely wrong for the game. I'm not saying that's the players' fault, either. The marketing for this game was handled so incredibly badly that I could lay most of the blame for the poor reception of DA2 at the feet of the marketers, especially when it came to story and relation to DAO.

All that being said, I actually enjoyed DA2, I like Hawke, and I understand the setting and story of the game as a piece of a larger whole.  This just happened to be the personal, slice oflife piece that needed to be told in order to set up the BIG SHOW in the next game. 

If anyone's interested in a western example of this kind of story, go rent a little movie called "You Can Count on Me."  it's a perfect example, and it's so well acted and written that you only realize it doesn't have a HUGE EPIC PLOT until after the movie's over and you're sitting there thinking, "man, that is one of the best movies i've ever seen."

The Bolded parts made me laugh because that what alot(not all save a few) opinions sound like...Some do bring up good points about paceing, story telling method  etc etc  that I agree with as well. 

[LilyasAvalon]

Hawke literally had no... purpose. No personality. S/he literally did nothing, they were in the right places at the right times but they certainly didn't 'rise' to power as the adverts so humorously suggest. We were built up to believe that Hawke's journey would be one rivaling Shepard's and the Warden's, nothing of such happened.

Shepard is on a mission to gather data and support for the defeat of the Reapers. The Warden gathered a makeshift army and stopped a Blight the same year it began.

...Hawke killed a crazy man and lady because of something Anders did.

...That's not as impressive in my eyes.

[Elywyn]

Actually there is one and only problem for me. I created a character, i improved that character, i fell in love with that character. And that character "Warden-Morrigan" -in my case- just went into a Eluvian portal and dissappear. I waited for almost one year for the answer. And so what happened? That Hawke guy came. And there was nothing about Warden and Morrigan. When "fans" connected with their hero, their Warden You can't let him/her go just like that. I think, "core fans" need just answers. But I want my hero back, I want my Warden and Morrigan. I want to control my Warden-Commander again. I met with Hawke, OK. I like him. He seems like a good character. He may be my(Warden's) right-hand. Warden SHOULD COME AGAİN...

[Elywyn]

** Sorry I'didnt see the post.

Modifié par Elywyn, 28 juillet 2011 - 04:52 .

[Night Prowler76]

Elywyn wrote...

Actually there is one and only problem for me. I created a character, i improved that character, i fell in love with that character. And that character "Warden-Morrigan" -in my case- just went into a Eluvian portal and dissappear. I waited for almost one year for the answer. And so what happened? That Hawke guy came. And there was nothing about Warden and Morrigan. When "fans" connected with their hero, their Warden You can't let him/her go just like that. I think, "core fans" need just answers. But I want my hero back, I want my Warden and Morrigan. I want to control my Warden-Commander again. I met with Hawke, OK. I like him. He seems like a good character. He may be my(Warden's) right-hand. Warden SHOULD COME AGAİN...

These are the some of the reasons Dragon Age 2 hasnt even sold half as many copies as DAO, its unfortunate, but it is a product of greed and mismanagement, dont expect the Dragon age universe to live past Dragon age 3, think of this, DAO sells 4-5 million copies, critically and financially successful, DA2 Ships 2 million copies, has not sold that many, more than half of the fanbase is gone in 18 months, DA3 comes out, the people who are alienated with DA2 which I would say is atleast half judging by critic and fan scores and from several forums, they in turn lose atleast half of the remaining fanbase, meaning they will sell less than 1 million copies and the franchise will die.

Sure you will see dev interviews, Laidlaw and Gaider will say we have taken the fan feedback into consideration and made steps to better the game, when in fact this is the same thing they said about DA2 when the forums were warning them about the bad decisions they were making. DAO was a great game, but the DA series is going to die after the next game folks.

[In Exile]

Night Prowler76 wrote...
Sure you will see dev interviews, Laidlaw and Gaider will say we have taken the fan feedback into consideration and made steps to better the game, when in fact this is the same thing they said about DA2 when the forums were warning them about the bad decisions they were making. DAO was a great game, but the DA series is going to die after the next game folks.

The forums said: PC VO is a terrible choice; changing the talents & abilities, terrible choice. Changing animations, & art style terrible choice.

No one even imagined that the plot would be as static as it was, that the game would have waves and recycled areas... 

DA2 failed, but it didn't fail for the reasosn the fans said it would.

[Night Prowler76]

In Exile wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...
Sure you will see dev interviews, Laidlaw and Gaider will say we have taken the fan feedback into consideration and made steps to better the game, when in fact this is the same thing they said about DA2 when the forums were warning them about the bad decisions they were making. DAO was a great game, but the DA series is going to die after the next game folks.

The forums said: PC VO is a terrible choice; changing the talents & abilities, terrible choice. Changing animations, & art style terrible choice.

No one even imagined that the plot would be as static as it was, that the game would have waves and recycled areas... 

DA2 failed, but it didn't fail for the reasosn the fans said it would.

I think you are wrong, all of the issues you stated above played a part in a sub-par product. The are style in games can be very offputting for people etc

[Jerrybnsn]

Art style is subjective, but making spikey armor, goat-looking elves, clown darkspawn, washed-out effect scenary, neon-UI, and bland menues was a mistake. The critics only said Origins needed to upgrade their graphics, not change their artstyle.

Edit: To stay on topic.  Hawke is more of a step down when you've already developed your personal hero for grand adventures. 

Modifié par Jerrybnsn, 28 juillet 2011 - 07:05 .

[Alexander1136]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...
Sure you will see dev interviews, Laidlaw and Gaider will say we have taken the fan feedback into consideration and made steps to better the game, when in fact this is the same thing they said about DA2 when the forums were warning them about the bad decisions they were making. DAO was a great game, but the DA series is going to die after the next game folks.

The forums said: PC VO is a terrible choice; changing the talents & abilities, terrible choice. Changing animations, & art style terrible choice.

No one even imagined that the plot would be as static as it was, that the game would have waves and recycled areas... 

DA2 failed, but it didn't fail for the reasosn the fans said it would.

I think you are wrong, all of the issues you stated above played a part in a sub-par product. The are style in games can be very offputting for people etc

that's my main problem with it. The art style looks really dumb I hate the spikey motif they have going. and when i first read that DA2 was coming out i was like but then i remember reading that i would be a new character ect. and i was like .

I do like making new characters to place into the world. My warden is a human and thats they way i like it. so i would like the chance to make a dwarf and a elf that have there own roles to play. I want my  warden again though. maybe have us make two more characters. 2 more games. then have the 4 of them with the warden as the PC in a group (w/ the respective LI's)  for the finally.

I don't hate hawke. i hate the pr but behind hawke. she wasn't that damn important  she's just as responsible for what happened as the grey warden is for causing justice to leave the fade.

[Elywyn]

I don't know. I think its not too late. They still can do something about our warnings and wishes. Ok they just cant make everyone happy. But at least they can try solve biggest problems. For me, art style isnt too much important. My priority is rpg, choises and most important morgan&warden. I think, If they bring back morrigan and warden, the sales of new game could overwhelming first game's. Because I know there is at least thousands of player like me who want back their warden. I dont hate Hawke too. But certainly, I love my Warden much much more. And again, as a Frp player, I think rpg must be priority too. Hack n' slash and destroyed limbs dont get loyal players to DA saga. From now on I'll write "*I want my Warden-Commander." at all of my new posts.

[Recon Member]

BanksHector wrote...

I dislike Hawke because one of my companions is more important to the story then I am.

?

[nitefyre410]

Thekill_3 wrote...

BanksHector wrote...

I dislike Hawke because one of my companions is more important to the story then I am.

?

 

could not have said that better myself.

[Elywyn]

If I were Varric I would say when Seeker said "Only Champion can help us". "Goddamnit go and "seek" warden commander. He ended a f*cking blight, and gave freedom to Circle of Magi of Fereldan. If there is someone who can help mages it is Warden-Commander. And he is mage, too. Champion is missing, Warden is missing. Then why Hawke?" And again Hawke can be right-hand of Warden-Commander and in that case everyone happy.

[Elywyn]

Thekill_3 wrote...

BanksHector wrote...

I dislike Hawke because one of my companions is more important to the story then I am.

?

Hahaha. I totally agree. After all, Anders raised right beside the Warden-Commander. I couldnt except much less from him *I want my Warden-Commander back.

[Sabariel]

I don't hate Hawke, but I don't feel any connection to him/her either. I've only finished DA2 twice, deleted a third play through, deleted my fourth play through, then went back to playing DAO. I just can't connect to Hawke. I feel like the audience instead of the puppet master when playing Hawke. Not fun for me

[Elywyn]

Sabariel wrote...

I don't hate Hawke, but I don't feel any connection to him/her either. I've only finished DA2 twice, deleted a third play through, deleted my fourth play through, then went back to playing DAO. I just can't connect to Hawke. I feel like the audience instead of the puppet master when playing Hawke. Not fun for me

Yeah, I said that too. I don't hate Hawke. I like Hawke. But I "Love" my Warden, While I was playing DA:O, "I" was Warden. I fell in love with Warden and a very hard one.(Morrigan) ) I had a purpose with Warden. But Hawke is just a survivor. and While I was playing DA:O I didn't want to end the game. I did all of side-quest willingly. I traveled all of Fereldan. But in DA: II, I just wanted to finish the game. Because that man wasn't my Hero. and I was wanting to see my Warden's and his lover's destiny. at the end of the game, I was shocked. Because there was no answers. And that just pissed me of. That is my only problem. What happened to my Warden? I want to play him, not Hawke. Maybe Hawke can be my companion, nothing more.  *I want my Warden-Commander back.

[LilyasAvalon]

BanksHector wrote...

I dislike Hawke because one of my companions is more important to the story then I am.

This, just this. It's perfect.

[corkey sweet]

not to bring up an old topic or anything but....

i dislike Hawke because he was a dry do nothing moron, had no personality

[Davasar]

I agree with Elywyn up there and Night Prowler76.

I think the franchise will die. Not due to being a "doom!" nay sayer, but because of EA's track record backed by solid facts and evidence of their willingness to ruin franchises and studios.

Before this franchise goes the way of the Dodo, I would hope that they at least have the class to tell us what happened to Morrigan and the Warden.

That is all.

Modifié par Davasar, 03 août 2011 - 12:47 .

[Davasar]

And this isn't thread necro because every time we start a new thread the Mods us to go to an old one and post where 'there is already a thread about this'.

That's what we are doing here.

[Addai]

nitefyre410 wrote...

Thekill_3 wrote...

BanksHector wrote...

I dislike Hawke because one of my companions is more important to the story then I am.

?

 

could not have said that better myself.

Think hard about it.  I'm sure it will come to you.

Hint:  It rhymes with Flanders.

[Persephone]

addiction21 wrote...

xkg wrote...
snip

Hawk does nothing but stand around and do nothing. Yes or no?

No.