539 réponses à ce sujet

[corkey sweet]

i find the charcter Hawke to be very shallow and dull. he is very non-memorable. i hope bioware decides to give hawke an offscreen death before dragon age 3 comes out

[Realmzmaster]

I like the character of Hawke and want to see him/her as a prominent figure in DA3 unless his story is finished in DLC or an expansion then I want to see a new protagonist.

[Frusciante31]

Skydiver8888 wrote...

I think people have issues with Hawke because they have issues with the story of DA2 as a standalone game. Why? Because the story of DA2 taken in a vacuum is a completely different genre than the vast majority of fantasy RPGs, books, and movies that are out there.

DAO, Lord of the Rings, anything by Terry Brooks, etc etc etc Are all the "epic" genre. You know, the MC is a the hero set on a quest to save the world by either killing the big bad thing or doing something glaringly heroic.

DA2...is not that. DA2 is, I think, more closely related to the Slice of Life genre that some movies and anime follow. Hawke is just a guy/girl trying to get by in the world (who happens to have some unique talents), has some crap things happen, has some great things happen, but much like you or I, really doesn't have all that much control of the greater world around him.  And sin of all sins...he/she actually FAILS. 

And that's why people don't like Hawke. Because they don't want to buy a fantasy RPG to play an average Joe. They want to be the HERO WHO SAVES THE WOOOOOOOORRRRRRLLLDDD! And there's nothing wrong with that.  But some people who don't hate Hawke (myself included) recognize that everyone has a story.  You, me, Hawke, that bum on the corner.  Hawke lived, loved, fought, bled, and ultimately failed.  doesn't mean she/he is a horrible character.  Hamlet didn't do so hot, either.  But most gamers don't want to play Hamlet.  They want to play the Warden, or Wesley/Buttercup, or Cinderella.

The trouble with DA2 isn't that the story is horrible or the writing is bad. I would argue that taken in a "slice of life" context, the story and writing are actually done well. it's that neither of those things are what we've come to expect from an RPG.

The problem is that most people bought DA2 and played it looking through a lens that was completely wrong for the game. I'm not saying that's the players' fault, either. The marketing for this game was handled so incredibly badly that I could lay most of the blame for the poor reception of DA2 at the feet of the marketers, especially when it came to story and relation to DAO.

All that being said, I actually enjoyed DA2, I like Hawke, and I understand the setting and story of the game as a piece of a larger whole.  This just happened to be the personal, slice oflife piece that needed to be told in order to set up the BIG SHOW in the next game. 

If anyone's interested in a western example of this kind of story, go rent a little movie called "You Can Count on Me."  it's a perfect example, and it's so well acted and written that you only realize it doesn't have a HUGE EPIC PLOT until after the movie's over and you're sitting there thinking, "man, that is one of the best movies i've ever seen."

  ^THIS^  

There seems, to me, to be something noble about a guy futilely struggling just to go about his business while the world falls apart around him. I can understand why people rebel against that type of story - most of us play these games for a brief  escape from our real lives - but, for my part, I think that lends a certain tragic mystique to Hawke that gives him great potential as a character in DA3.  

Which, to me, further implies that Hawke will be the protagonist in DA3 - there was too much set-up with not enough payoff in terms of his character development in DA2.  That is to say, I am not so arrogant as to believe that DA2, alone, was sufficient to merit the "rise to power" hype circulating around Hawke - there simply has to be more to his story, and I can't wait for it.

Modifié par Frusciante31, 03 août 2011 - 10:03 .

[nitefyre410]

Frusciante31 wrote...

Skydiver8888 wrote...

I think people have issues with Hawke because they have issues with the story of DA2 as a standalone game. Why? Because the story of DA2 taken in a vacuum is a completely different genre than the vast majority of fantasy RPGs, books, and movies that are out there.

DAO, Lord of the Rings, anything by Terry Brooks, etc etc etc Are all the "epic" genre. You know, the MC is a the hero set on a quest to save the world by either killing the big bad thing or doing something glaringly heroic.

DA2...is not that. DA2 is, I think, more closely related to the Slice of Life genre that some movies and anime follow. Hawke is just a guy/girl trying to get by in the world (who happens to have some unique talents), has some crap things happen, has some great things happen, but much like you or I, really doesn't have all that much control of the greater world around him.  And sin of all sins...he/she actually FAILS. 

And that's why people don't like Hawke. Because they don't want to buy a fantasy RPG to play an average Joe. They want to be the HERO WHO SAVES THE WOOOOOOOORRRRRRLLLDDD! And there's nothing wrong with that.  But some people who don't hate Hawke (myself included) recognize that everyone has a story.  You, me, Hawke, that bum on the corner.  Hawke lived, loved, fought, bled, and ultimately failed.  doesn't mean she/he is a horrible character.  Hamlet didn't do so hot, either.  But most gamers don't want to play Hamlet.  They want to play the Warden, or Wesley/Buttercup, or Cinderella.

The trouble with DA2 isn't that the story is horrible or the writing is bad. I would argue that taken in a "slice of life" context, the story and writing are actually done well. it's that neither of those things are what we've come to expect from an RPG.

The problem is that most people bought DA2 and played it looking through a lens that was completely wrong for the game. I'm not saying that's the players' fault, either. The marketing for this game was handled so incredibly badly that I could lay most of the blame for the poor reception of DA2 at the feet of the marketers, especially when it came to story and relation to DAO.

All that being said, I actually enjoyed DA2, I like Hawke, and I understand the setting and story of the game as a piece of a larger whole.  This just happened to be the personal, slice oflife piece that needed to be told in order to set up the BIG SHOW in the next game. 

If anyone's interested in a western example of this kind of story, go rent a little movie called "You Can Count on Me."  it's a perfect example, and it's so well acted and written that you only realize it doesn't have a HUGE EPIC PLOT until after the movie's over and you're sitting there thinking, "man, that is one of the best movies i've ever seen."

   ^THIS^  

There seems, to me, to be something noble about a guy futilely struggling just to go about his business while the world falls apart around him. I can understand why people rebel against that type of story - most of us play these games for a brief  escape from our real lives - but, for my part, I think that lends a certain tragic mystique to Hawke that gives him great potential as a character in DA3.  

Which, to me, further implies that Hawke will be the protagonist in DA3 - there was too much set-up with not enough payoff in terms of his character development in DA2.  That is to say, I am not so arrogant as to believe that DA2, alone, was sufficient to merit the "rise to power" hype circulating around Hawke - there simply has to be more to his story, and I can't wait for it.

 

There is something very human  about Hawke - I like the fact that he is just a man that wants to make a home for he and his  family - how he struggles to  try to keep that home and despite his  best  effort he fails.  He fails but he continues on and moves  forward

[miskatonica]

Frusciante31 wrote...

Skydiver8888 wrote...

I think people have issues with Hawke because they have issues with the story of DA2 as a standalone game. Why? Because the story of DA2 taken in a vacuum is a completely different genre than the vast majority of fantasy RPGs, books, and movies that are out there.

DAO, Lord of the Rings, anything by Terry Brooks, etc etc etc Are all the "epic" genre. You know, the MC is a the hero set on a quest to save the world by either killing the big bad thing or doing something glaringly heroic.

DA2...is not that. DA2 is, I think, more closely related to the Slice of Life genre that some movies and anime follow. Hawke is just a guy/girl trying to get by in the world (who happens to have some unique talents), has some crap things happen, has some great things happen, but much like you or I, really doesn't have all that much control of the greater world around him.  And sin of all sins...he/she actually FAILS. 

And that's why people don't like Hawke. Because they don't want to buy a fantasy RPG to play an average Joe. They want to be the HERO WHO SAVES THE WOOOOOOOORRRRRRLLLDDD! And there's nothing wrong with that.  But some people who don't hate Hawke (myself included) recognize that everyone has a story.  You, me, Hawke, that bum on the corner.  Hawke lived, loved, fought, bled, and ultimately failed.  doesn't mean she/he is a horrible character.  Hamlet didn't do so hot, either.  But most gamers don't want to play Hamlet.  They want to play the Warden, or Wesley/Buttercup, or Cinderella.

The trouble with DA2 isn't that the story is horrible or the writing is bad. I would argue that taken in a "slice of life" context, the story and writing are actually done well. it's that neither of those things are what we've come to expect from an RPG.

The problem is that most people bought DA2 and played it looking through a lens that was completely wrong for the game. I'm not saying that's the players' fault, either. The marketing for this game was handled so incredibly badly that I could lay most of the blame for the poor reception of DA2 at the feet of the marketers, especially when it came to story and relation to DAO.

All that being said, I actually enjoyed DA2, I like Hawke, and I understand the setting and story of the game as a piece of a larger whole.  This just happened to be the personal, slice oflife piece that needed to be told in order to set up the BIG SHOW in the next game. 

If anyone's interested in a western example of this kind of story, go rent a little movie called "You Can Count on Me."  it's a perfect example, and it's so well acted and written that you only realize it doesn't have a HUGE EPIC PLOT until after the movie's over and you're sitting there thinking, "man, that is one of the best movies i've ever seen."

  ^THIS^  

There seems, to me, to be something noble about a guy futilely struggling just to go about his business while the world falls apart around him. I can understand why people rebel against that type of story - most of us play these games for a brief  escape from our real lives - but, for my part, I think that lends a certain tragic mystique to Hawke that gives him great potential as a character in DA3.  

Which, to me, further implies that Hawke will be the protagonist in DA3 - there was too much set-up with not enough payoff in terms of his character development in DA2.  That is to say, I am not so arrogant as to believe that DA2, alone, was sufficient to merit the "rise to power" hype circulating around Hawke - there simply has to be more to his story, and I can't wait for it.

Seconding (thirding) these, particularly Skydiver8888's post. Put it better than I ever could.

[Addai]

Frusciante31 wrote...

Which, to me, further implies that Hawke will be the protagonist in DA3 -

No.

[Sepewrath]

corkey sweet wrote...

i find the charcter Hawke to be very shallow and dull. he is very non-memorable. i hope bioware decides to give hawke an offscreen death before dragon age 3 comes out

I disagree, Hawke was a great character, that was fleshed out very well as opposed to the Warden who was just a blank avatar, that had no actual purpose. If you look back at the story in Origins, if you remove the Warden, it wouldn't matter in the least bit. The latter, they need to ever do again, the former, definitely needs to be more of that.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...

Frusciante31 wrote...

Which, to me, further implies that Hawke will be the protagonist in DA3 -

No.

They would further increase the probability of losing a customer.

[erynnar]

miskatonica wrote...

Frusciante31 wrote...

Skydiver8888 wrote...

I think people have issues with Hawke because they have issues with the story of DA2 as a standalone game. Why? Because the story of DA2 taken in a vacuum is a completely different genre than the vast majority of fantasy RPGs, books, and movies that are out there.

DAO, Lord of the Rings, anything by Terry Brooks, etc etc etc Are all the "epic" genre. You know, the MC is a the hero set on a quest to save the world by either killing the big bad thing or doing something glaringly heroic.

DA2...is not that. DA2 is, I think, more closely related to the Slice of Life genre that some movies and anime follow. Hawke is just a guy/girl trying to get by in the world (who happens to have some unique talents), has some crap things happen, has some great things happen, but much like you or I, really doesn't have all that much control of the greater world around him.  And sin of all sins...he/she actually FAILS. 

And that's why people don't like Hawke. Because they don't want to buy a fantasy RPG to play an average Joe. They want to be the HERO WHO SAVES THE WOOOOOOOORRRRRRLLLDDD! And there's nothing wrong with that.  But some people who don't hate Hawke (myself included) recognize that everyone has a story.  You, me, Hawke, that bum on the corner.  Hawke lived, loved, fought, bled, and ultimately failed.  doesn't mean she/he is a horrible character.  Hamlet didn't do so hot, either.  But most gamers don't want to play Hamlet.  They want to play the Warden, or Wesley/Buttercup, or Cinderella.

The trouble with DA2 isn't that the story is horrible or the writing is bad. I would argue that taken in a "slice of life" context, the story and writing are actually done well. it's that neither of those things are what we've come to expect from an RPG.

The problem is that most people bought DA2 and played it looking through a lens that was completely wrong for the game. I'm not saying that's the players' fault, either. The marketing for this game was handled so incredibly badly that I could lay most of the blame for the poor reception of DA2 at the feet of the marketers, especially when it came to story and relation to DAO.

All that being said, I actually enjoyed DA2, I like Hawke, and I understand the setting and story of the game as a piece of a larger whole.  This just happened to be the personal, slice oflife piece that needed to be told in order to set up the BIG SHOW in the next game. 

If anyone's interested in a western example of this kind of story, go rent a little movie called "You Can Count on Me."  it's a perfect example, and it's so well acted and written that you only realize it doesn't have a HUGE EPIC PLOT until after the movie's over and you're sitting there thinking, "man, that is one of the best movies i've ever seen."

  ^THIS^  

There seems, to me, to be something noble about a guy futilely struggling just to go about his business while the world falls apart around him. I can understand why people rebel against that type of story - most of us play these games for a brief  escape from our real lives - but, for my part, I think that lends a certain tragic mystique to Hawke that gives him great potential as a character in DA3.  

Which, to me, further implies that Hawke will be the protagonist in DA3 - there was too much set-up with not enough payoff in terms of his character development in DA2.  That is to say, I am not so arrogant as to believe that DA2, alone, was sufficient to merit the "rise to power" hype circulating around Hawke - there simply has to be more to his story, and I can't wait for it.

Seconding (thirding) these, particularly Skydiver8888's post. Put it better than I ever could.

I don't need to save the world, but Hawke was a paper thin schmuck. Legacy helped negate that some. And guarenteed if Hawke stays, you are all going to be back to SAVING THE WOOOOOORRRRRLLLLLD!!!!!

I think I really despised Hawke when a certain matriarcal figure was in danger and I had to wait until nightfall to go rescue them. Hawke, killer of gangs of people in broad daylight, but had to wait? And for someone who is supposed to be not so epic, they sure were epic enough to slaughter droves of people and monsters just like a Warden. Hawke was no down to earth every man or woman. Instead I kept getting told that, and yet I was supposed to believe they could do epic things. It was very bipolar.

Like I said, Legacy giving me more time with family and family history made Hawke a little better, but otherwise, Hawke can die a quiet death off stage.

Edited to say, and going comatose, staying in Kirkwall when they had no real reason to, and sitting around with their thumbs up their behind changing or stopping nothing of note, really didnt' help.

Modifié par erynnar, 04 août 2011 - 02:07 .

[Tommy6860]

erynnar wrote...

miskatonica wrote...

Frusciante31 wrote...

Skydiver8888 wrote...

I think people have issues with Hawke because they have issues with the story of DA2 as a standalone game. Why? Because the story of DA2 taken in a vacuum is a completely different genre than the vast majority of fantasy RPGs, books, and movies that are out there.

DAO, Lord of the Rings, anything by Terry Brooks, etc etc etc Are all the "epic" genre. You know, the MC is a the hero set on a quest to save the world by either killing the big bad thing or doing something glaringly heroic.

DA2...is not that. DA2 is, I think, more closely related to the Slice of Life genre that some movies and anime follow. Hawke is just a guy/girl trying to get by in the world (who happens to have some unique talents), has some crap things happen, has some great things happen, but much like you or I, really doesn't have all that much control of the greater world around him.  And sin of all sins...he/she actually FAILS. 

And that's why people don't like Hawke. Because they don't want to buy a fantasy RPG to play an average Joe. They want to be the HERO WHO SAVES THE WOOOOOOOORRRRRRLLLDDD! And there's nothing wrong with that.  But some people who don't hate Hawke (myself included) recognize that everyone has a story.  You, me, Hawke, that bum on the corner.  Hawke lived, loved, fought, bled, and ultimately failed.  doesn't mean she/he is a horrible character.  Hamlet didn't do so hot, either.  But most gamers don't want to play Hamlet.  They want to play the Warden, or Wesley/Buttercup, or Cinderella.

The trouble with DA2 isn't that the story is horrible or the writing is bad. I would argue that taken in a "slice of life" context, the story and writing are actually done well. it's that neither of those things are what we've come to expect from an RPG.

The problem is that most people bought DA2 and played it looking through a lens that was completely wrong for the game. I'm not saying that's the players' fault, either. The marketing for this game was handled so incredibly badly that I could lay most of the blame for the poor reception of DA2 at the feet of the marketers, especially when it came to story and relation to DAO.

All that being said, I actually enjoyed DA2, I like Hawke, and I understand the setting and story of the game as a piece of a larger whole.  This just happened to be the personal, slice oflife piece that needed to be told in order to set up the BIG SHOW in the next game. 

If anyone's interested in a western example of this kind of story, go rent a little movie called "You Can Count on Me."  it's a perfect example, and it's so well acted and written that you only realize it doesn't have a HUGE EPIC PLOT until after the movie's over and you're sitting there thinking, "man, that is one of the best movies i've ever seen."

  ^THIS^  

There seems, to me, to be something noble about a guy futilely struggling just to go about his business while the world falls apart around him. I can understand why people rebel against that type of story - most of us play these games for a brief  escape from our real lives - but, for my part, I think that lends a certain tragic mystique to Hawke that gives him great potential as a character in DA3.  

Which, to me, further implies that Hawke will be the protagonist in DA3 - there was too much set-up with not enough payoff in terms of his character development in DA2.  That is to say, I am not so arrogant as to believe that DA2, alone, was sufficient to merit the "rise to power" hype circulating around Hawke - there simply has to be more to his story, and I can't wait for it.

Seconding (thirding) these, particularly Skydiver8888's post. Put it better than I ever could.

I don't need to save the world, but Hawke was a paper thin schmuck. Legacy helped negate that some. And guarenteed if Hawke stays, you are all going to be back to SAVING THE WOOOOOORRRRRLLLLLD!!!!!

I think I really despised Hawke when a certain matriarcal figure was in danger and I had to wait until nightfall to go rescue them. Hawke, killer of gangs of people in broad daylight, but had to wait? And for someone who is supposed to be not so epic, they sure were epic enough to slaughter droves of people and monsters just like a Warden. Hawke was no down to earth every man or woman. Instead I kept getting told that, and yet I was supposed to believe they could do epic things. It was very bipolar.

Like I said, Legacy giving me more time with family and family history made Hawke a little better, but otherwise, Hawke can die a quiet death off stage.

Edited to say, and going comatose, staying in Kirkwall when they had no real reason to, and sitting around with their thumbs up their behind changing or stopping nothing of note, really didnt' help.

Not to mention that the area layout felt like I was playing "Chutes and Ladders". You know, I liked that game when I was little .

[erynnar]

*giggle at Tommy* And I don't mean to sound snippy, if I do, I apologize. Work once again has drained the life out of me and all I want to do is write. Knowing more about Hawke's family helped me like her more. Like having the background on my Warden's origins. It helps.

But Hawke just lacked something. And no, it didn't have to do with not having my Wardens back (they are off doing their own thing thanks) nor was it do to not having an epic SAVE THE WOOOORRRRRLLLLD story. Hawke just wasnt' well done. I am powerless in my job most of the time (had a woman and her husband living in their truck because they got evicted and he has cancer). I don't need to play a person helpless to EVERYTHING that happens around them. Some things, sure, but not every friggin' thing.

Modifié par erynnar, 04 août 2011 - 02:37 .

[lady constance]

Thor Rand Al wrote...

@ Lady constance
See I've never played ME so as far as Sheppard I have no clue. But ok I see as far as race where that be fubared for some. I've always choosen human cause thats what I prefer but I do understand where other's would want a diff race, understandable.

As far as VO, I absolutely love male Hawke's voice but I have issues with fem, but it's not enough for me to sit here n say I hate Hawke. N I don't see how Hawke is more prebuilt then the Warden, explain please so I can understand. With Hawke you give them personality with the dif snarky, diplomatic n aggressive responses n thats a BIG win for me there, which you couldn't in Origins, tech that's about the only difference now that I think about it besides race. Hawke has personality and a voice, big step up from Origins. But I do understand the race issue. N tech there are 2 stories, promage and Templer. But again it's the story you make for them that gives them life.

I already explained it. You can choose the Warden's background in ADDITION to the Warden's race, but you can't decide anything about Hawke aside from the class and gender. There are six background stories available in Origins: you can be a city elf or a dalish elf, a royal human or a circle mage, a dwarf noble or or a commoner. DA2 doesn't give you the option of choosing your background story - it's already given to you. This is how Hawke is more "pre-built." You also speak as if you cannot choose the Warden's personality. Bull.The Warden had funny lines, mean lines, nice lines, etc just as Hawke did. It just didn't have nice little icons next to them and you had to use your imaginiation when it came to the voice. I understand liking a VA over a silent PC though... I just disagree.

But more importantly... you must, must, must play Mass Effect  

[Frusciante31]

erynnar wrote...

I don't need to save the world, but Hawke was a paper thin schmuck. Legacy helped negate that some. And guarenteed if Hawke stays, you are all going to be back to SAVING THE WOOOOOORRRRRLLLLLD!!!!!

I am not picking on you, but I am curious as to why you think he is "paper-thin"?  What would have made him a better character in your view?  Especially in relation to the Warden, who - don't get me wrong, he is fine - was essentially a blank slate with no personality and a vacant stare.

And yes, we will probably be saving the world in DA3 - and it will be all the sweeter with the full-fledged "origin" story of Hawke that was DA2.  Further, I imagine you'll see the payoff of some choices you made in DA2
that seemed pointless at the time (which I will not spoil).

Edit:  I mean, (blasphemy of blasphemies) Empire Strikes Back, on its own (in my opinion) was not a particularly great movie (hell the protagonist even fails like Hawke), but it was great when put in the context of the overall trilogy - and it made the outcome of Return of the Jedi all the more poignant.  Granted, ESB was executed much, much, much better than DA2, but from a story development perspective, I think the analogy has some merit.

Modifié par Frusciante31, 04 août 2011 - 03:30 .

[Addai]

erynnar wrote...

Like I said, Legacy giving me more time with family and family history made Hawke a little better, but otherwise, Hawke can die a quiet death off stage.

Edited to say, and going comatose, staying in Kirkwall when they had no real reason to, and sitting around with their thumbs up their behind changing or stopping nothing of note, really didnt' help.

Now we have Hawke's family being tied to "an ancient evil"- I figure in the expansion Hawke will be saving the world.

For me it's too little too late for this PC.  Hawke starts off on a bad note.  What compelling reason does she have to leave Ferelden to the Blight?  Besides being a coward, the only reason I can come up with is that Smirky just doesn't care.  She doesn't want to save the world, and as it turns out, it's a good thing!   Does not endear me to the character.  I have the same problem with Aveline.

Secondly, she doesn't even try to do anything about Anders.  If at a certain point when he suggests leaving, she had said "I can't let you do that," that would have made a big difference even if he escaped.  No DLC can change these two things about the character.

Modifié par Addai67, 04 août 2011 - 03:37 .

[erynnar]

Frusciante31 wrote...

erynnar wrote...

I don't need to save the world, but Hawke was a paper thin schmuck. Legacy helped negate that some. And guarenteed if Hawke stays, you are all going to be back to SAVING THE WOOOOOORRRRRLLLLLD!!!!!

I am not picking on you, but I am curious as to why you think he is "paper-thin"?  What would have made him a better character in your view?  Especially in relation to the Warden, who - don't get me wrong, he is fine - was essentially a blank slate with no personality and a vacant stare.

And yes, we will probably be saving the world in DA3 - and it will be all the sweeter with the full-fledged "origin" story of Hawke that was DA2.  Further, I imagine you'll see the payoff of some choices you made in DA2
that seemed pointless at the time (which I will not spoil).

Edit:  I mean, (blasphemy of blasphemies) Empire Strikes Back, on its own (in my opinion) was not a particularly great movie (hell the protagonist even fails like Hawke), but it was great when put in the context of the overall trilogy - and it made the outcome of Return of the Jedi all the more poignant.  Granted, ESB was executed much, much, much better than DA2, but from a story development perspective, I think the analogy has some merit.

LOL! I know you weren't I was using that because I liked how you wrote it! aping is the sincerest form of flattery. It tickled my funnybone. *HUGS*

I mean when Dog is invited to play Diamond Back at the Hanged Man and Varric and the dog leave without Hawke. You know it's bad when the companions would rather hang out witht the mutt.

[lady constance]

Sepewrath wrote...

corkey sweet wrote...

i find the charcter Hawke to be very shallow and dull. he is very non-memorable. i hope bioware decides to give hawke an offscreen death before dragon age 3 comes out

I disagree, Hawke was a great character, that was fleshed out very well as opposed to the Warden who was just a blank avatar, that had no actual purpose. If you look back at the story in Origins, if you remove the Warden, it wouldn't matter in the least bit. The latter, they need to ever do again, the former, definitely needs to be more of that.

The Warden had no purpose? I don't understand. The Warden was the only one who could defeat the Archdemon at the time. All of the other Ferelden Wardens, aside from Alistair, were dead. Who else could have gathered an army to take on the Blight? Alistair? That wasn't likely. So, without the Warden, the Blight would have devastated much of the world.

Modifié par lady constance, 04 août 2011 - 03:49 .

[erynnar]

Addai67 wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Like I said, Legacy giving me more time with family and family history made Hawke a little better, but otherwise, Hawke can die a quiet death off stage.

Edited to say, and going comatose, staying in Kirkwall when they had no real reason to, and sitting around with their thumbs up their behind changing or stopping nothing of note, really didnt' help.

Now we have Hawke's family being tied to "an ancient evil"- I figure in the expansion Hawke will be saving the world.

For me it's too little too late for this PC.  Hawke starts off on a bad note.  What compelling reason does she have to leave Ferelden to the Blight?  Besides being a coward, the only reason I can come up with is that Smirky just doesn't care.  She doesn't want to save the world, and as it turns out, it's a good thing!   Does not endear me to the character.  I have the same problem with Aveline.

Secondly, she doesn't even try to do anything about Anders.  If at a certain point when he suggests leaving, she had said "I can't let you do that," that would have made a big difference even if he escaped.  No DLC can change these two things about the character.

Exactly, does nothing about Anders, nothing to stop what happens with her mom. I had no real reason for why Hawke would continue to stay in Kirkwall. Really, none.  And I think that is one of the reasons I find Hawke paper thin. I don't believe that Hawke finds Kirkwall home. I don't believe the character.

And the Warden was hardly blank (I had family, clan, friends, home, background all givne) for an avatar that is just what it was meant to be. Your  skin to travel around the world in. Hawke was an actor I directed. The Warden was my skin for interacting with the world.

Modifié par erynnar, 04 août 2011 - 03:58 .

[Frusciante31]

Addai67 wrote...

For me it's too little too late for this PC.  Hawke starts off on a bad note.  What compelling reason does she have to leave Ferelden to the Blight?  Besides being a coward, the only reason I can come up with is that Smirky just doesn't care. .

Secondly, she doesn't even try to do anything about Anders.  If at a certain point when he suggests leaving, she had said "I can't let you do that," that would have made a big difference even if he escaped.  No DLC can change these two things about the character.

1.  Hawke is trying to protect his mother and siblings by getting them to Kirkwall where they are safe from the Blight.  By the time he gets there, and finds his mother a home (1 year period), the Blight is ended and there is no reason to return to Ferelden.  So you might disagree with his reason for leaving, but to say he is a coward for not staying to fight darkspawn is not accurate.

2.  Did you see Anders' doing *SPOILER* ?  If not, you can hardly blame Hawke...

3.  And relative to Hawke's mother, he did everything he could, it just wasn't enough...that is what makes Hawke intriguing to me:  as powerful as a fighter as he is, the tragedy of his story is that (up to this point...) that isn't all that beneficial to him as there were still circumstances wildly beyond his control that he was forced to deal withl. 
I think that makes him much more of a powerful character than a typical main character who is shielded by plot armor.

Modifié par Frusciante31, 04 août 2011 - 04:01 .

[erynnar]

Frusciante31 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

For me it's too little too late for this PC.  Hawke starts off on a bad note.  What compelling reason does she have to leave Ferelden to the Blight?  Besides being a coward, the only reason I can come up with is that Smirky just doesn't care. .

Secondly, she doesn't even try to do anything about Anders.  If at a certain point when he suggests leaving, she had said "I can't let you do that," that would have made a big difference even if he escaped.  No DLC can change these two things about the character.

1.  Hawke is trying to protect his mother and siblings by getting them to Kirkwall where they are safe from the Blight.  By the time he gets there, and finds his mother a home (1 year period), the Blight is ended and there is no reason to return to Ferelden.  So you might disagree with his reason for leaving, but to say he is a coward for not staying to fight darkspawn is not accurate.

2.  Did you see Anders' doing *SPOILER* ?  If not, you can hardly blame Hawke...

Yes I did see Anders doing *spoiler* and that is another reason Hawke is paper thin. Anders lies to my Hawke's face, and I knew what he was about. Yet, my Hawke just let him lie to her and helped him anyways.

[BTG_01]

erynnar wrote...

Yes I did see Anders doing *spoiler* and that is another reason Hawke is paper thin. Anders lies to my Hawke's face, and I knew what he was about. Yet, my Hawke just let him lie to her and helped him anyways.

1. You don't have to help Anders if you don't want to. He still goes ahead with his plan.

2. Hawke can warn the Grand Cleric about Anders, she just doesn't take the threat seriously, despite Hawke's insistence.

[Realmzmaster]

Addai67 wrote...

erynnar wrote...

Like I said, Legacy giving me more time with family and family history made Hawke a little better, but otherwise, Hawke can die a quiet death off stage.

Edited to say, and going comatose, staying in Kirkwall when they had no real reason to, and sitting around with their thumbs up their behind changing or stopping nothing of note, really didnt' help.

Now we have Hawke's family being tied to "an ancient evil"- I figure in the expansion Hawke will be saving the world.

For me it's too little too late for this PC.  Hawke starts off on a bad note.  What compelling reason does she have to leave Ferelden to the Blight?  Besides being a coward, the only reason I can come up with is that Smirky just doesn't care.  She doesn't want to save the world, and as it turns out, it's a good thing!   Does not endear me to the character.  I have the same problem with Aveline.

Secondly, she doesn't even try to do anything about Anders.  If at a certain point when he suggests leaving, she had said "I can't let you do that," that would have made a big difference even if he escaped.  No DLC can change these two things about the character.

I always thought saving one's family is a compelling reason. Maybe Hawke should have stayed in Lothering with his family and watch them all get wiped out.

The human and dwarf noble warden have no family or the family has backstabbed them. The Dalish elf becomes a warden to save his/her life. The city elf becomes a warden because he/she would end up dangling at the end of a rope. The mage warden has no family we know of. The only origin that has family ties it the dwarf commoner who is trying to make things better for his family like Hawke. The other origins have no family to worry about.
The warden basically has nothing to lose but his/her life as far as they know.

Hawke can lose all of his/her family by staying in Lothering. I find it quite understandable that he/she would leave.  I really have no problem with sensible characters.

And do what about Anders? Kill him with for no reason and have every Feledren refugee hating you ? Turn him in to be killed by the Templars which means that those being heal and helped by Anders now have no help or hope.
In my opinion there is no reason to change the character based on those things. And you are correct no DLC will change that. But, YMMV.

[Ryzaki]

Amazingly Hawke doesn't warn the one person who might do something about it (Meredith) absolutely mindboggling. I'm not getting into Hawke's laughably expendable family. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 04 août 2011 - 04:07 .

[Frusciante31]

Yes I did see Anders doing *spoiler* and that is another reason Hawke is paper thin. Anders lies to my Hawke's face, and I knew what he was about. Yet, my Hawke just let him lie to her and helped him anyways.

Ok fair enough, if you saw that coming (how...?) I don't blame you for feeling frustrated with Hawke as a character.

I mean, overall, it seems to me that your problem isn't that Hawke is a bad character, it just that he's not omniscient in his ability to solve every problem (e.g. Anders, his mother, Carver, probably Merethari).  To me, on the other hand, I think its boring when the MC can solve every problem in front of him - there's no drama, or struggle involved, in your successes.  It's just a boring - there's no depth.

But it seems we  are arguing opinions, I don't want to stir that hornet's nest. 

Thanks for your sharing your opinions! :happy:

[Rogue Unit]

lady constance wrote...

Sepewrath wrote...

corkey sweet wrote...

i find the charcter Hawke to be very shallow and dull. he is very non-memorable. i hope bioware decides to give hawke an offscreen death before dragon age 3 comes out

I disagree, Hawke was a great character, that was fleshed out very well as opposed to the Warden who was just a blank avatar, that had no actual purpose. If you look back at the story in Origins, if you remove the Warden, it wouldn't matter in the least bit. The latter, they need to ever do again, the former, definitely needs to be more of that.

The Warden had no purpose? I don't understand. The Warden was the only one who could defeat the Archdemon at the time. All of the other Ferelden Wardens, aside from Alistair, were dead. Who else could have gathered an army to take on the Blight? Alistair? That wasn't likely. So, without the Warden, the Blight would have devastated much of the world.

The Darkspawn Chronicles showed that - in a world without the Warden - Alistair was more than capable of uniting the lands against the Blight on his own.

[FieryDove]

Frusciante31 wrote...

I think that makes him much more of a powerful character than a typical main character who is shielded by plot armor.

I don't know. My mage Hawke had so much plot armor she was passing it out to all the residents in darktown. That and a few coins since the *chantry* couldn't be bothered.