130 réponses à ce sujet

[Skirata129]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Tree fox wrote...

You know, in Archangels recruitment mission there is a Blue Suns girl named Jentha. You can talk to her about what Archangel did but when you're fighting with Garrus she pops out and you have to kill her.

I wanted to recruit & romance her dammit!

Me too. I felt bad about killing her, because my shep would have tapped that.

Jentha? I don´t remember her dammit. I remember something like Chief Jentha xD

She was the second-in-command of the Blue Suns during Garrus' recruiting
mission. Damn she was hot. I felt bad putting that Mantis round between
her eyes.

I just created a thread on the character forums in memory of her. lol

[RocketManSR2]

Jentha was a bit stressed when you talk to her, but even then she sounded so nice. 

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 20 juillet 2011 - 08:39 .

[lsmoke]

ya i agree about jentha

first thing i thought when i saw her was what a shame it was that she had to join the blue suns and die that day.

although gini paranasi (the detective on illium) is quite a looker and she even kissed shepard so who knows what will happen between her and shepard in me3

[ArcanistLibram]

Shepard's been a professional soldier for years. I don't see why killing people should bother him anymore.

[Paula Deen]

OP, did you miss the parts where we fought mercenaries (that were plenty humanzed), vorcha, krogan, CIVILIANS (Jacob's loyalty mission), or people like Aresh?

[fenix8081]

I think we're getting a little carried away here with compassion. In a real war between real enemies, yes you might be killing a father, mother, son, or daughter that doesn't want to be there. Dehumanizing the enemy is essential because dwelling on who they are will get you killed by them in an instant. I remember bayonet training where the proper response to the question "What makes the green grass grow?" was "Blood, bright red blood makes the green grass grow, drill sergeant!" Being in Iraq and witnessing war firsthand made me realize that my ability to dehumanize someone was something that I couldn't do.

However, Shepard's situation is completely different. The Reapers will destroy all organic life. Cerberus agents are indoctrinated, meaning that they have no remorse in following orders. Most of them joined a human supremacist group a la the ****s out of choice, not out of circumstance like most German grunts. Shepard's conscience should be pretty clear.

[Blue Face Beast]

OP, did you forget about Garrus loyalty mission?

Letting Garrus snipe in the head the Turian traitor? And torturing human C-Sec corrupted agent for answers?

They looked like real human/turian beings to me. And they were not endoctrinated or something.

And the Blue Suns? Zaeed Loyalty mission. I loved that one. Let the civillians blow up and burn to death the Blue Sun boss.

And there were many more missions in ME2 which were not involving mechanized enemies or monsters/zombies. Yeah, depending on which side you are i can say that either way, alot of "good people" are getting roasted in this game.

I do not feel that compassion was overly present in ME2. Depending how you played your Sheppard, you could at times be particularly unforgiving to your enemies. And this is why i loved ME franchise. You can play dirty and get away with it.

[Core_Commander]

ArcanistLibram wrote...

Shepard's been a professional soldier for years. I don't see why killing people should bother him anymore.

It bothers my Shepard. Seeing people starving in Earth's slums and having her squad ripped to shreds on Akuze, and having to sacrifice over 2000 human lives made her a softie like that. She kills when she has to, but is relieved if she doesn't.

...wait, you mean it ISN'T an RPG game? I need to stop thinking about *my* choices ASAP.

[Soccer FeverMan]

mauro2222 wrote...

Soccer FeverMan wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Well if I was the one shooting, I would probably feel remorse, even if the other wanted to kill me with an atomic bomb.. But Shepard is not a normal and natural human with defined morals, he is a soldier or a killer, for me are the same.

Im not sure if i fully comprehend what you meant, but what i'm thinking right now is i feel that is incredibly disrespectful to all soldiers in the world regardless of their country. Yes i realize some of them might have very little empathy or sympathy, but many of them are human and are not merciless killers. Most go in the armed forces because they have something they want to protect and be part of something bigger than themselves.

I´m not against what soldiers represent, and I´m aware of what they want to do, but what I hate is their training, they are conditioned to leave behind their humanity, they are brainwashed with propaganda, with a stupid sense of duty and such dishonored things that they became psychopaths. Those who disobey orders of not killing someone because there is no need, are true soldiers. Every single human life is bigger than any imaginary line in a map, their mission is to protect those who are defendless and to spread knowledge and tolerance among the people.

I understand your reasoning, but i can't say i agree with you. idk if i took personally especially since im really thinking of enlisting in the Marines, and i have great respect for them. So i guess were going have to agree to disagree.

[Ausstig]

I felt bad for The Cerberus troops in the E3 demo, especially that last one that the Blue B#### killed.
I like humans, I care about humans, I have worked with people like them before. But now rather then kill Batarins, which was setup through Arrival I have to kill my Allies. I would rather kill Mr Facepaint and BB than Cerberus troops.

I also felt bad killing Jentha. She was nice.

[Core_Commander]

Ausstig wrote...

I felt bad for The Cerberus troops in the E3 demo, especially that last one that the Blue B#### killed.
I like humans, I care about humans, I have worked with people like them before. But now rather then kill Batarins, which was setup through Arrival I have to kill my Allies. I would rather kill Mr Facepaint and BB than Cerberus troops.

I also felt bad killing Jentha. She was nice.

Jentha was a nice move by Bioware - even though interactions with her is a whopping 5 or so sentences, and that "nice girl" (coincidentally, a hardened criminal) doesn't object to sending you on what everyone agrees is a suicide task, so there. She reminds the player that "sup, you're killing PEOPLE this time, not some random guys helmets or robots or whatever. Life's a **** eh".

A human face changes a lot... but a PRETTY face is the real kicker, eh?

[Skirata129]

well, I didn't feel guilty for killing her, as it was neccesary. what was unfortunate was the fact I didn't get her number first.

[Destroy Raiden_]

javierabegazo wrote...

I can't feel remorse for having killed something that was out to kill me. That's just called "Survival" and "Instincts"

Yeah I'm with mod on this one.

[ShadowSplicer]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

I can't feel remorse for having killed something that was out to kill me. That's just called "Survival" and "Instincts"

Yeah I'm with mod on this one.

Yep, that's their problem. Only an idiot would fire a shot at Commander Shepard.

[LiquidLogic2020]

I think that would be a good thing, fighting an enemy that is also a person and not just your typical faceless voiceless target that mass 1 and 2 have used so far.

[The C Trayne]

survival of the fitest... remorse should only be shown for those who arent attempting to kill me

[SandTrout]

Mauro, you should really stop attempting to derail threads into political discussions irrelevant to the discussion at hand. It really does seem to be a habit with you.

On topic - One is only a psychopath if they are unable to feel remorse in any situation. I would feel no remorse for shooting someone dead that was breaking into my home, attempting to rob/kill me, or if I can determine beyond reasonable doubt that they 'deserve it'(primarily murderers on this point).

I might regret the situation that caused me to kill, but most situations that I would kill in would not cause remorse for the person I killed. If someone's family was being held hostage in order for them to try to kill them, I would not feel remorse for killing them, I would be angry with the person that forced their hand, because that person is responsible for their death, not me.

Cerberus is trying to kill me, therefor, I will try to kill them first. If they are trying to kill me because they are indoctrinated, then their blood is on the Reapers' hands, so to speak, not mine. It would just give me one more reason to defeat the Reapers because they are responsible for causing the deaths competent soldiers that have my species' interests at heart.

[JukeFrog]

RocketManSR2 wrote...

mauro2222 wrote...

Skirata129 wrote...

RocketManSR2 wrote...

Tree fox wrote...

You know, in Archangels recruitment mission there is a Blue Suns girl named Jentha. You can talk to her about what Archangel did but when you're fighting with Garrus she pops out and you have to kill her.

I wanted to recruit & romance her dammit!

Me too. I felt bad about killing her, because my shep would have tapped that.

Jentha? I don´t remember her dammit. I remember something like Chief Jentha xD

She was the second-in-command of the Blue Suns during Garrus' recruiting
mission. Damn she was hot. I felt bad putting that Mantis round between
her eyes.

These posts had me laughing for a good two minutes.

[Skirata129]

yeah, people often seem to misidentify sociopathy as psychopathy, and even if they don't portray sociopathy as a unilaterally bad thing to square it within their own limited morality.

[KotorEffect3]

They are cerberus, I am doing the galaxy a favor by taking them out and that includes doing humanity a favor since cerberus makes us look like xenophobic terrorists.

[Siven80]

Destroy Raiden wrote...

javierabegazo wrote...

I can't feel remorse for having killed something that was out to kill me. That's just called "Survival" and "Instincts"

Yeah I'm with mod on this one.

I'm with them

[thetruefreemo]

You answered yourself there; masks, armor, and mechs.

[didymos1120]

AlanC9 wrote...

I'm not sure I buy the premise of the thread. We killed tons of humans, krogan, etc. in ME1 and ME2.

And many of them were either unarmored or armored but lacking helmets. People have mentioned a number of ME2 examples, but it wasn't uncommon in ME1 either: the Cerberus bases being a notable example.  The Peak 15 mercs, depending on what you did there, are another.  Especially because you're forced into a nominally friendly conversation with Ventralis before you can enter the Hot Labs or start poking around anywhere else. Sure, you can be a standoffish, insulting jerk there, but the game is still presenting him as unequivocally an ally against the rachni in that initial conversation and does it's best to trick you into heading straight for the Hot Labs, which will turn the mercs hostile and force another conversation with a now very unhappy but resolved Ventralis.   Oh, and don't forget Zhu's Hope, where humanizing your very-soon-to-be-unwilling-enemies is largely the entire point.

[Labrev]

I tend to sympathize/feel remorse for almost every enemy that I kill. There are exceptions, like when said enemy is scum and truly deserves it. But nonetheless.

Among those:

Morinth
Vasir
Jentha
Jaroth
Rachni on Noveria
Saren
Benezia (even if her voice acting was gag-inducing)
Kenson

... just to name a few.

I fight for the greater good; I'm not a killing machine. There is sorrow in these deaths as much as any others.

Modifié par Hah Yes Reapers, 21 juillet 2011 - 01:30 .

[knightnblu]

How do you dehumanize something that isn't human in the first place? Seems like a logic error to me. As for the Cerberus operatives you have to ice, that's war and it's kill or be killed as the only choice being offered. I could go into a long winded explanation that would bore you to tears why this is so, but I just don't see any point to it.