265 réponses à ce sujet

[collectorfreak]

So most people skipped ME1? That's a shame.

[Nizzemancer]

well actually it was a communicator, the normandy recorded the transmission, but having visual communication and having a device for long time recordings are two different things. For all we know their communicator only stores very small bits temporarily as it's being encrypted and sent out, much like modern encrypted UHF and SatCom-radios do.

[collectorfreak]

I think that's entering the area of speculations, we don't know how it works. Fact is they used it to capture the events.

[asindre]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Look, no one is saying that cameras don't exists, but there is nothing in the game that leads you to believe they have the ability to record what Vigil says while in a war zone.

wrong.

Wow, that was some really good points you got him there

[SpiffySquee]

asindre wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Look, no one is saying that cameras don't exists, but there is nothing in the game that leads you to believe they have the ability to record what Vigil says while in a war zone.

wrong.

Wow, that was some really good points you got him there

One word responses! My... only weakness... How did he know??? 

[Nizzemancer]

collectorfreak wrote...

I think that's entering the area of speculations, we don't know how it works. Fact is they used it to capture the events.

Well of course.

Everything is speculation unless Bioware flat out tells us the facts.

[Lotion Soronarr]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Look, no one is saying that cameras don't exists, but there is nothing in the game that leads you to believe they have the ability to record what Vigil says while in a war zone.

wrong.

prove it.
You have not been able to offer one shred of evidence that they can and do carry cameras with them.

If soldiers today can carry them, then soldiers in the future can too. It's the way of hte future - you can see any future solider concpet having a cam. The commando's that did Bin Laden in had cammeras.
Especially if the'yre even smaller and simpler than those of today.
Again, Omni-tool. If it cna do anything BUT record, then the alliance is again a bunch of morons.

Now, how usefull would those recodrings be? Somehwat at least.
Saren inventing the reaper story is a bit far fetched, since it's such a hard story to swallow. Not to mentio nthat if you buy in it, stopping Saren becomes even more of a priority.
And any evidence, even weak evidence, is better than none.

And if you say "the council could think the recording is forged"...Well, why dont' they think the Saren recording is forged?

[Lotion Soronarr]

Nizzemancer wrote...

For all they know sovereign could have just been an ancient warship, he only ever speaks to saren and shepard and his team so they have no objective way of knowing that it's sentient..

They don't have to know it's sentient. If one-super-powerfull warship exists, then it's likely more exist. And whoever builds them is a galactic-scale danger.

Even if the Council thinks Sovy is geth, that would be more than enough reason for an all-out war against the Geth.

SpiffySquee wrote...

Or
a camera phone. We have no idea who recorded it, or what hey used.
Everyone assumes it was a soldier, but we honestly don't know. It could
have been one of the scientist caught up in the fight. Could have been
some random civilian that had a camera the soldiers used to try and get
help. Heck, the fact that Ash is telling them to get down instead of
fight, would suggest that they were a non combatant.

Nonsense.
First of all, since when does a civilian camera have the range to communicate with a military starship? Military have their own channels. It's the military that called for backup and evac, and I'm quite sure they have their own comm equipment, and won't use civy stuff.
Secondly, the "get down" has nothing to do with being a civy or a grunt..and hte view certanly seems like it's from a helmet cam.

[Lotion Soronarr]

asindre wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Look, no one is saying that cameras don't exists, but there is nothing in the game that leads you to believe they have the ability to record what Vigil says while in a war zone.

wrong.

Wow, that was some really good points you got him there

What more is needed? When he sez something that's blatantly false, I'm not gonna bother with repeating myself and long disserations.

If I told oyu the moon is made of cheese, would you bother with a long and elaborat reply?

[Paulinius]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Shepard was trying to gather more info on the reapers and Saren. If you doing detective work and gathering evidence, then it only makes sense to bring proper equipment with you.

If Shepard didn't have Normandy's sensors working on overdrive and recording/scanning equipment, then he/she is a MORON.

Let's assume for a moment that Shepard's hardsuit is in fact equipped with audio/video recording equipment, and he documented the entirety of say, the Virmire mission. What good would it do? You never actually see Sovereign on Virmire, all you do is speak to a hologram. A hologram which could be easily dismissed by the Council as a VI programmed by Saren to mislead Shepard.

Now Ilos, on the other hand....

You mean a hologram that looks exactly like Sovereign?

It must be the Shepard VI.

[Savber100]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Nizzemancer wrote...

For all they know sovereign could have just been an ancient warship, he only ever speaks to saren and shepard and his team so they have no objective way of knowing that it's sentient..

They don't have to know it's sentient. If one-super-powerfull warship exists, then it's likely more exist. And whoever builds them is a galactic-scale danger.

Even if the Council thinks Sovy is geth, that would be more than enough reason for an all-out war against the Geth.

...The geth attacks with a super-powerful warship to destroy the Citadel. The Council would have reasoned that if the geth wanted to destroy the Council, they would have UNLEASHED all of their so-called "superweapons" against that. After all, why risk everything by just sending one?

Seal the deal by sending three! :innocent:

Since the geth didn't have three Reapers, the Council had to assume that Sovereign was the only one, and further investigation by the Council (which is implied in ME2) didn't show any other of these geth superweapon. 

Also even if Sovy is geth, you make it sound like the galaxy would be eager for war. The Council is like the UN, they don't go to war even if you have forty nuclear weapons in your closet.

Galactic War isn't something you just jump in and do. Also the Council did send out fleets to guard their borders though so it's not like they were totally inert.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Or
a camera phone. We have no idea who recorded it, or what hey used.
Everyone assumes it was a soldier, but we honestly don't know. It could
have been one of the scientist caught up in the fight. Could have been
some random civilian that had a camera the soldiers used to try and get
help. Heck, the fact that Ash is telling them to get down instead of
fight, would suggest that they were a non combatant.

Nonsense.
First of all, since when does a civilian camera have the range to communicate with a military starship? Military have their own channels. It's the military that called for backup and evac, and I'm quite sure they have their own comm equipment, and won't use civy stuff.
Secondly, the "get down" has nothing to do with being a civy or a grunt..and hte view certanly seems like it's from a helmet cam.

The burden of proof is on you as "certainly seems like" doesn't really support anything except your own bias.

[LilyasAvalon]

The council is in denial because they don't want it to be true, a lot of the evidence is there, they just don't want to believe what's really going on.

Ignorance is bliss.

[Kaiser_Wilhelm]

The Council is not only a rather stupid group who either honestly sees no Reaper threat or wants to deny it, but the majority are anti-human and refuse to acknowledge the Reapers, as that would make Shepard look like a "hero of the galaxy", and they don't want that privilege to go to humanity. Not only that, but admitting there's a race of super-powerful sentient machines that can and will try to enslave or kill every race is quite panic-inducing. With the Geth still a major threat in their minds, they don't want their forces in fear if the Geth were to attack.

Modifié par Kaiser_Wilhelm, 23 juillet 2011 - 02:56 .

[littlezack]

Really, the Turian council member is the only one that seems actively against you; the Asari seems at least open to the idea that there's some merit to your claims, and it's entirely possible that the Salarian believes you completely, but just doesn't want to openly give you support.

[Mister Mida]

SpiffySquee wrote...

Source please?

By 3:30 Courtesy of Smudboy

Late response, I know.

[Savber100]

Mister Mida wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Source please?

By 3:30 Courtesy of Smudboy

Late response, I know.

Ah smudboy... Our very own Mass Effect troll. 

Mind you he made some good points here and there but eventually he just resorts to the most infantile of nitpicking. <_<

If he wants to be seen as balanced, he needs to point out areas where Bioware does things RIGHT rather than keep bashing EVERYTHING like if Bioware is the devil incarnate. 

Modifié par Savber100, 23 juillet 2011 - 04:47 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Savber100 wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Source please?

By 3:30 Courtesy of Smudboy

Late response, I know.

Ah smudboy... Our very own Mass Effect troll. 

Mind you he made some good points here and there but eventually he just resorts to the most infantile of nitpicking. <_<

If he wants to be seen as balanced, he needs to point out areas where Bioware does things RIGHT rather than keep bashing EVERYTHING like if Bioware is the devil incarnate.

Burn!
There you go..more than enough evoidece

[Kaiser_Wilhelm]

littlezack wrote...

Really, the Turian council member is the only one that seems actively against you; the Asari seems at least open to the idea that there's some merit to your claims, and it's entirely possible that the Salarian believes you completely, but just doesn't want to openly give you support.

The Turian's the only one who openly hates Shepard, but the other two, though supportive at times, still seem elitist to me. They don't put humanity in much importance, and try to downplay Shepard's actions. If everyone thought a human saved every race in the galaxy, humanity would be immediately thrown into the forefront of galactic politics. The Council would rather keep the status quo of alien dominance.

[Savber100]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

SpiffySquee wrote...

Source please?

By 3:30 Courtesy of Smudboy

Late response, I know.

Ah smudboy... Our very own Mass Effect troll. 

Mind you he made some good points here and there but eventually he just resorts to the most infantile of nitpicking. <_<

If he wants to be seen as balanced, he needs to point out areas where Bioware does things RIGHT rather than keep bashing EVERYTHING like if Bioware is the devil incarnate.

Burn!
There you go..more than enough evoidece

I only said you had the burden of proof so I don't see how I'm "burned" since all you were doing were sprouting theories without support.  If anything, you should thank Mr. Mida profusely. 

Now we await squee's response. 

[Il Divo]

It's a shame, but the suit recordings and Asari mind-melding was a plothole from the start. Smud is in the right about this one, imo.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Il Divo wrote...

It's a shame, but the suit recordings and Asari mind-melding was a plothole from the start. Smud is in the right about this one, imo.

Yes he is.

In fact, the entire mission including the conversations with Saren on Virmire and at the Citadel, the conversation with Benezia, the conversation with Sovereign on Virmire got recorded by them. And the very liklihood that the material comprising Sovereign was different than that making up the Geth ships in that it contained organic compounds (you know from the goo of the other species) is never mentioned. All this gets ignored by the council, and the fact that Shepard never filed so much as a copy of these with his reports? this means Shepard is 1) just an incompetent SPECTRE or 2) just stupid. But Shepard is supposed to be neither. I could fly a C-5 through the plot holes.

This is not like the X-Files where Mulder and Scully just can't get hold of concrete evidence. The evidence is all there. It is simply poor writing.

There are ways of making the player feel isolated as Shepard in ME2 by the Council and Alliance and still acknowlege these things in their private meeting. "The evidence you gave us is alarming. We can't go public with it because it would create galactic panic, but we are preparing. We can tell you no more as long as you're working with Cerberus. Remember, you are still a Council SPECTRE, and as a SPECTRE you would normally have access to this information, but Cerberus is considered a terrorist organization. Make your association as brief as possible, and confine your activities with them to outside Council Space." 

But Shepard never gave the evidence over to either the Alliance or the Council. Hence, good is dumb. Yet Cerberus was smart enough to gather the evidence of the Reapers somehow. Probably off Shepard's suit and off what was left of the Normandy's data storage.

[AlanC9]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

They don't have to know it's sentient. If one-super-powerfull warship exists, then it's likely more exist. And whoever builds them is a galactic-scale danger.

Even if the Council thinks Sovy is geth, that would be more than enough reason for an all-out war against the Geth.

Of course, this would have been an extremely stupid unfortunate response, since Saren only commanded a fraction of the geth.

Modifié par AlanC9, 23 juillet 2011 - 07:45 .

[AlanC9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
In fact, the entire mission including the conversations with Saren on Virmire and at the Citadel, the conversation with Benezia, the conversation with Sovereign on Virmire got recorded by them.

If recording devices really were around, neither Sovereign or Saren would have been stupid enough to have those conversations. Benezia would reveal stuff at the end, so she'd have to just die without saying much 

Exactly how would you deliver that information to the player without creating the plothole? Edit: or rather, how do you preserve Shepard's importance in ME2 and ME3? You could do big reveals at the Citadel battle, since Sovereign might be arrogant enough to think that he can admit the Reapers are real since he's gonna win anyway.

Modifié par AlanC9, 23 juillet 2011 - 07:48 .

[Sgt Stryker]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

It's a shame, but the suit recordings and Asari mind-melding was a plothole from the start. Smud is in the right about this one, imo.

Yes he is.

In fact, the entire mission including the conversations with Saren on Virmire and at the Citadel, the conversation with Benezia, the conversation with Sovereign on Virmire got recorded by them. And the very liklihood that the material comprising Sovereign was different than that making up the Geth ships in that it contained organic compounds (you know from the goo of the other species) is never mentioned. All this gets ignored by the council, and the fact that Shepard never filed so much as a copy of these with his reports? this means Shepard is 1) just an incompetent SPECTRE or 2) just stupid. But Shepard is supposed to be neither. I could fly a C-5 through the plot holes.

This is not like the X-Files where Mulder and Scully just can't get hold of concrete evidence. The evidence is all there. It is simply poor writing.

There are ways of making the player feel isolated as Shepard in ME2 by the Council and Alliance and still acknowlege these things in their private meeting. "The evidence you gave us is alarming. We can't go public with it because it would create galactic panic, but we are preparing. We can tell you no more as long as you're working with Cerberus. Remember, you are still a Council SPECTRE, and as a SPECTRE you would normally have access to this information, but Cerberus is considered a terrorist organization. Make your association as brief as possible, and confine your activities with them to outside Council Space." 

But Shepard never gave the evidence over to either the Alliance or the Council. Hence, good is dumb. Yet Cerberus was smart enough to gather the evidence of the Reapers somehow. Probably off Shepard's suit and off what was left of the Normandy's data storage.

Where exactly do people get the idea that Shepard did NOT submit after-action reports (with suit recordings and all) to the Council after completing the primary missions? Just because it isn't explicitly shown on screen, doesn't mean that it didn't happen. In either case, I contend that any recorded information gathered on Therum, Feros, Noveria, and Virmire would have been useless in proving the Reapers' existence.

[AlanC9]

In retrospect, it would have been a lot smarter if Bio had had Sovereign and Vigil use some sort of psionic communication. Then they could have avoided the whole issue.