19 réponses à ce sujet

[Moorebe]

Was hoping to get some tactics advice. I've read several posts about understanding tactics and looked at other people's tactics they have posted but was wondering if someone could help me specifically with mine?

I'm currently playing a DW-Assassin-Shadow Hawke on Hard. I've read that Varric, Merrill and Anders are the best three to roundout the party?
That being said how should I setup their tactics? Keeping in mind I don't need to worry about FF.

Any advice is greatly appreciated

[Moorebe]

A few things that I'd like to setup are:
taking advantage of the CCCs that are available with this party formation
which spells/abilities are best to utilize with this group -
- and how to go about doing that, etc..

[mr_afk]

okay, with no warriors you've only got disorient and brittle CCCs to play with:

brittle: petrify, winter's grasp, cone of cold
assassinate
archer's lance

disorient: pinning shot, fatiguing fog, confusion
stone fist
spirit bolt
walking bomb

also, not a CCC, but brand is useful (allows your mages to crit)


Basically you'll be mainly setting up Varric to cast fatiguing fog and confusion on clustered enemies thus allowing you to walking bomb them (if you are on hard friendly fire shouldn't be a problem). Otherwise the disorient will just allow your mages to deal some extra damage.
Against elites Varric will be using pinning shot and brand to allow mages to work their magic.

Your mages will be using ice spells (and maybe petrify if you want) which will rather unreliably brittle an enemy. This will allow your rogues to either do CCCs or just take advantage of the +50% critical damage that you get against brittled targets.


I'll let somebody else explain it in better detail. Or you could just check out the guides out there. There isn't that much difference tactic-wise between nightmare and hard, so Arelex's setups should be fine. just use that. I'm busy slaying demons

[Ferretinabun]

It's a matter of taste, but I always find it more difficult to operate without a tank. Aveline is the obvious choice, but Fenris can work as a tank too.
If you don't take a tank anywhere else, do yourself an almighty favour and take one to the Deep Roads at least. The Rock Wraith with your current setup will be tedius to say the least.

[thendcomes]

Do yourself an almighty favor and don't listen to that guy. ^^^

It's not a matter of taste, it's tried and proven that 4 DPS trumps typical Tank/DPS/Healer setups in this game.

[cJohnOne]

I was afraid someone would twack tanking. I also use a tank. A couple of my guys are set to ranged and Merrill is set to Custom. Whatever that is. I feel like someone has to stand and fight! In a small group the tank works okay but then it gets chaotic.


Edit: Merrill is set to default.

Modifié par cJohnOne, 23 juillet 2011 - 12:17 .

[Ferretinabun]

"Do yourself an almighty favor and don't listen to that guy. ^^^

It's not a matter of taste, it's tried and proven that 4 DPS trumps typical Tank/DPS/Healer setups in this game."

Is that right? And how exactly do tactics fit into your calculations for finding the best setup, exactly?

I can see that having a tank cuts your party's DPS potential, but they serve a very useful purpose. The rock wraith in particular takes a Hell of a time whittling his health down, and if you don't have a tank then you'll be spending the whole fight directing your characters running away from him. It's a Hell of a lot quicker and less tedious with a tank.

[thendcomes]

Sorry for sounding like a ******, but your choice of words was just way to geeky not to re-use.

Yes, it's right. I don't exactly know how to answer your second question because I don't know what it is even asking, exactly. (lol)

Arelex's guides have detailed setups, including tactics, that trump any tank setup bar none. If you want to take a "tank", you're making it more difficult on yourself. It's been proven. 4 DPS take Rock Wraith down easily in less than 1 minute. Arelex did it in 20 or 30 seconds. I killed him in 2 minutes with a solo mage for god's sake. Aveline can come if you want, just spec her for DPS, not tanking.

Not just ARW, but tanks are pointless for almost the whole game. No boss requires you to soak up damage while a healer heals you. All significant damage can be avoided. Trying to make a tank setup work is more time consuming and unnecessarily difficult than not using them at all.

[Moorebe]

I'm currently playing on Hard difficulty and have easily killed two mature dragons, Xenbryeak and a couple of other relatively difficult bosses either using isabela, merrill & anders or varric, merrill & anders.
Is the reason for the "use current condition for next tactic" because "skip to is bugged" does the use current function the same? I understand setting up certain tactics and as to what they will accomplish but the order in which i have them placed is still a problem for me.

[Moorebe]

Can someone copy and paste their tactics for me to see? Someone who uses a DW rogue. I don't need Hawke's tactics just Anders, Merrills and either Varric/Isabela. I know they are posted elsewhere but I think they are pre-patch and don't take into account certain bugs and I don't think they are exactly what I am looking for? I'm playing Hawke as Assassin/Shadow (not duelist). I greatly appreciate anyone's input and assistance regarding this.
Also, anyone anticipating any kinds of changes for DLC.

***More importantly is anyone doing anyting in particular to prepare for Tuesday's release? Getting anything ready or making sure anything is ____?

[thendcomes]

Arelex's guide is updated for the patch. Just look at the bottom.

[Xalen]

Nah, for DW it's not. But I don't think companion tactics in particular would drastically.

...And I just saw that his pre-patch guide doesn't include Varric (which I actually noticed only now after 4 month when I went to double-check, weird)

Modifié par Xalen, 24 juillet 2011 - 12:35 .

[SuicidalBaby]

Arelex just added varric.

any tactical questions can be answered by following the link in my sig

[SuicidalBaby]

thendcomes wrote...

Sorry for sounding like a ******, but your choice of words was just way to geeky not to re-use.

Yes, it's right. I don't exactly know how to answer your second question because I don't know what it is even asking, exactly. (lol)

Arelex's guides have detailed setups, including tactics, that trump any tank setup bar none. If you want to take a "tank", you're making it more difficult on yourself. It's been proven. 4 DPS take Rock Wraith down easily in less than 1 minute. Arelex did it in 20 or 30 seconds. I killed him in 2 minutes with a solo mage for god's sake. Aveline can come if you want, just spec her for DPS, not tanking.

Not just ARW, but tanks are pointless for almost the whole game. No boss requires you to soak up damage while a healer heals you. All significant damage can be avoided. Trying to make a tank setup work is more time consuming and unnecessarily difficult than not using them at all.

To reinforce this point, I would like to remind everyone that this is not WoW and that paradigm does not fit this medium.  If you consider forcing a octagonal shaped peg into a slightly larger circular hole fitting, be my guest.  But the clear cut group dynamic for optimal builds is 4 dps.

[Moorebe]

could someone explain (and feel free to answer this like i'm a total idiot) the "use current condtion for next tactic" because what i assumed it would enable you to do is setup a chain of two or three tactics to run consecutively without it going back to the top or first tactic again. if this is not what that is for then is it possible to make it run say tactics #4,5 and 6 in a row without going back to tactic #1 after it completes a tactic? i understand "jump to" is broke. so is it possible to setup a chain of tactics? something like for a shadow assassin to target a brittle opponent, cast, mark of death, go into stealth to obscure for extra crit damage and then backstab or assassinate, or suggest a better chain to setup for a upper level dagger shadow assassin,

i greatly appreciate whoever provided some advice, i know tactics is mentioned a lot in other threads but like i said i'm a little dense on some of the tactics lingo

i also don't understand why you would use the "skip tactics" one as well

target nearest rogue and if enemy using magical attack still bugged in patch 1.03?

thanks again,
Moorebe

[Moorebe]

also, if it helps explain what i'm runnin with and trying to do is
hard difficulty
level 22
hawke as duel dagger, shadow assasin with
isable, aveline and anders
between hawkes shadow obscure and isabela's chameleon's breath a sorta perma obscure with a lot of disorients, using both rogues as high crits glass cannons while aveline holds aggro and her scatter and assault utilize disorients
anders healing, and ccc stonefist, walking bomb, spirit bolt, chain lightning and petrify to brittle

[mr_afk]

use current condition for next tactic works to link two conditions together, making it slightly more specific.

for example, if you wanted your mage to only use disorient CCCs on elites (e.g. stone fist) you have to link together two conditions; Enemy is elite and enemy is disoriented. This gives you

Enemy: Elite or Higher: Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Disoriented: Stone Fist


Tactics work like reading down it like a list. When a condition is fulfilled it triggers, activating the action. After the action it restarts back from the top. Due to cooldowns this means that tactics allow a sort of prioritisation of actions to be taken, with conditions like self: hp < 25% useful for setting off healing only when needed. This means that you could set up a 'chain' of tactics but only if the conditions for those tactics trigger in the desired order. E.g.

1. Enemy: Brittle: Mark of Death
2. Enemy: Brittle: Stealth (not sure if this works)
3. Enemy: Brittle: Assassinate

The only problem with such tactics is the possibility that the brittle might disappear during the time taken - Also, you'll hit the damage cap anyway so it's sort of wasted damage/overkill.

It's best to leave it as

Enemy: Elite or Higher: Use for next
Enemy: Brittle: Assassinate


I'm not a tactics buff though so I'll leave it to suicidal to explain what works and doesn't work.

[Moorebe]

Thanks mr_afk
Anyone else's input is also greatly appreciated, thanks in advance
Moorebe

[AreleX]

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[Relix28]

Here's what I've come up with for my party of Archer (Shadow/Assassin) Hawke, Bethany, Anders and Merrill (best party ever).

Merrill

3.enemy: BRITTLE: Hex of Torment 
4.enemy: target of Hawke: uccfnt
5.enemy: elite or higher: Petrify
6.enemy: BRITTLE: jump to 9
7.enemy: elite or higher: Winters Grasp
8.enemy: clustered +3: Wounds of The Past <----- jump destination


Anders

7.enemy: BRITTLE: jump to 10
8.enemy: elite or higher: Winters Grasp
9.enemy enemy: clustered +3: Fireball <----- jump destination


Bethany

5.enemy: BRITTLE: jump to 9
6.enemy: BRITTLE: Hex of Torment
7.enemy: elite or higher: Winters Grasp
8.enmy: clustered +3: Pull of The Abyss <----- jump destination


Hawke

2.enemy: BRITTLE: Mark of Death
3.enemy: BRITTLE: Assassinate
4.enemy: BRITTLE: Archers Lance
5.self: obscured: jump to 8
6.enemy: BRITTLE: Stealth
7.enemy: BRITTLE: Attack <----- jump destination


This setup pretty much guarantees brittled elites in pretty much every encounter you face. If the first brittle attempt fails, there are 3 more to rectify it. "jump to x" tactics for mages make sure they do not waste their britlle spells, if the target is already brittle. And, if there is more than one elite present (i.e. two assassins), mages take care of the first one with brittle spells, and Hawke manually takes care of the second one via upgraded Pinning Shot, so mages can CCC him with Spirit Bolts and Stone Fist.
Of course, this will not work so well, if you are playing a DW rogue, because Winter's Grasp can pretty easily freeze and BRITTLE your Hawke and you really don't want that. But as far as tactics go, you can remove "jump to x" and Winters Grasp tactics from Bethany and Merrill, and replace Winters Grasp with Petrify for Anders. Or you can just check AreleX's DW Assassin guide. That works pretty well too.

Modifié par Relix28, 05 août 2011 - 06:32 .