295 réponses à ce sujet

[tez19]

Shuma Gorath wrote...

tez19 wrote...

Gamers are whiners. The more hardcore/geeky the gamer the more they complain. 'Tis the internet.

Let me guess, you still live in your Mother's basement?

Do not judge me by your own standards boy, and i cannot take you seriously due to your join date. TROLL.

[Savber100]

Filament wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

...It's unfortunate that you feel that way about the various changes and how BioWare presented them, but I feel that you are significantly mischaracterizing their presentation of those changes just to make them look bad, and I can't help but think maybe you just shouldn't have bought the game if you were so upset by the new direction. Evidently by your characterization of their pre-release comments you were around long enough to make an informed decision on the matter and didn't just buy it blindly.

To clarify, this was the way I saw it and how I reacted to what I read towards Bioware from the announcement of DA2 to after release. Did Bioware present in the way I said it? Obviously not! That would be bad marketing! No, instead we had Bioware tell us that DA2 is simply a better, more streamlined experience for EVERYONE! I simply played the game and basically described (with some little theatrics) what Bioware meant by "a better, more streamlined experience"  

But do I hate Bioware? No. 

I'm currently having the same feeling I have Pixar after Cars 2. The trailer for Cars 2 looked ok and it just seems like a money grab to me but it was PIXAR  so surely they weren't going to disappoint me like that! So I went and watched it and was massively disappointed. The same feeling goes with Bioware. I thought these talented people knew better than this. 

Yet, I will continue to be a Pixar fan (still eagerly awaiting Brave)

Yet, I will buy Mass Effect 3 and if DA3 prove to be a return to Origins (and with some few good elements of DA2), I'll return to this franchise. 

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I'm curious, what was so special about the isometric camera that made people upset when it disappeared?

The isometric camera defined and (in a way) symbolized DA:O's tactical combat on the PC. When DA2 was first announced, I defended the faster combat by saying it was just Origins with faster combat. Nothing wrong with that! The isometric camera was still there to provide a clear tactical map to plan and strategize my every move. Then, a rumor came out saying Bioware was stripping it for graphical reasons. Eventually, the gameplay videos were released and several devs confirmed the stripping of the camera. 

Mind you we can still have some tactics without it but the camera symbolized a old school mechanics that was integral to the RPGs of old like Baldur's Gate and was what defined the DA:O's tactical experience for many DA:O fans. Ask around and you'll know this to be true. 

So idk, removing it just felt like a kick in the balls as Bioware reminded us that this wasn't the DA that we remembered and fell in love in the first place. 

Modifié par Savber100, 21 juillet 2011 - 08:03 .

[MeAndMySandvich]

Meanwhile, in Poland...

[hoorayforicecream]

WilliamShatner wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Filament wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

...It's unfortunate that you feel that way about the various changes and how BioWare presented them, but I feel that you are significantly mischaracterizing their presentation of those changes just to make them look bad, and I can't help but think maybe you just shouldn't have bought the game if you were so upset by the new direction. Evidently by your characterization of their pre-release comments you were around long enough to make an informed decision on the matter and didn't just buy  it blindly.

It really weirds me out when people take DA2, its DLC, and the press stuff as personal insults and use terms like "spitting in our face" in a completely serious tone. I mean... really, when I buy a Big Mac and it doesn't look like the advertised sandwich, I don't think that it's McDonalds spitting in my face. I don't think that it's them disrespecting me. I just eat the burger, and if it bothers me that much, I don't buy it anymore and move on.

Well if you don't like a burger from McDonalds you have hundreds of other choices of places to go to get a burger you do like.

Now, off the top of your head tell me ten other companies that produce squad based RPGs like DA:O.  Go.

It doesn't give you the right to demand that they make exactly what you want and try to drive away their existing customers that actually like their products. There's nothing wrong with offering criticisms of the game, or of the material, but when you start caling the developers the devil and taking everything personally, then you're going too far.

You don't have the right to make people make video games to your taste, even if nobody else is doing it. They don't owe you anything just because you're the biggest fan of DAO evar. I'm sorry that you feel that Bioware is the last one who does make this sort of thing, and that they are moving in a direction that you dislike, but treating them like they are personally insulting you for making products they stand behind and believe in is not going to convince them to listen to you. It's just going to make them think you're a nutjob, because they really aren't out to get you, and there is no conspiracy going on to extort money out of their tearful fans. They are making the game they want to make, and hoping that people will buy it.

If you don't like it, then don't buy it. Feel free to tell them why, but for heaven's sake, do so in a civil manner. Quoting Moby Dick, saying they are spitting in your face and calling them the devil is not civil. It's behaving in typical internet nerd rage manner, and that's never ever been able to convince anyone to do anything except perhaps facepalm at your antics.

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 21 juillet 2011 - 08:03 .

[ink07]

JohnEpler wrote...

And I'm really not sure what you find objectionable about that last quote. Obviously, the primary audience for any DA2 DLC is people who enjoyed DA2. It'd be rather foolish to focus it on people who didn't like the game - that's not to say that we don't take the concerns of people who disliked aspects of DA2 into account. And that would be the second half of that statement - we're hoping that we can show things with Legacy that indicate we've seen what the fans felt strongly about and worked on improving those aspects. Obviously, not everyone's going to feel that what we do is enough. Some people will feel we didn't address their specific concern. But in the end, the evidence one way or another will be in the content we provide.

This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. Either commit to the "new audience" that "loved your innovations" or don't pretend that you listened to complaints when it is obvious that people who liked the game don't have those complaints in the same place. Yeah, I know where are you going with this: "bububu we minimized/tweaked waves and stopped the reused environments, what else do you want?". Those complaints don't count as "people felt strongly about these". Those are simply mediocre, lazy and obnoxious desing decisions that have no place in a suppossedly AAA developer at all.

Stop trying to antagonize your DA:O fans, or antagnoize them completely once and for all but stop with this "we hope people give the game a chance" BS soon. No one is spinning anything right now. You came out and said something, now stick by it.

YOU ARE NOT THE VICTIMS HERE AND PEOPLE WHO DISLIKED YOUR GAME ARE NOT AT FAULT AND ARE NOT THE EVIL DUDES OUT FOR YOUR HEADS. GEEZ!

DA2, worst $60 I threw away. I seriously hope this DLC fails and this god forsaken series is put to rest.

[TEWR]

chill out

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 21 juillet 2011 - 08:13 .

[ink07]

This is the internet so I'm allowed to get angry at stupid stuff.

[hoorayforicecream]

Throwing an internet tantrum will totally get you what you want. True story.

[AngryFrozenWater]

ink07 wrote...

This is the internet so I'm allowed to get angry at stupid stuff.

You are talking to a very reasonable BW employee. If you remove the fingers from your ears and try to read it again when you are calm then maybe you can see it in a different light. You can have your own opinion, but there is no need to shout or be rude about it.

*looks for an old lady who wants to cross the street*

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 21 juillet 2011 - 08:24 .

[panamakira]

I just think it's bizarre that people in here assume that if we loved DA:O we should hate DA2.

The DLC will probably fix some small things that were bugging some people like me who although had many issues with the DA2, enjoyed it overall. I still have fun playing it. It's not looking to get people who hated the game because it wasn't DA:O2.

[ink07]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Throwing an internet tantrum will totally get you what you want. True story.

Sure, but its not like supporting Bioware and all of their games (including DLC) and preordering DA2 ever did, so right now I don't see a downside to my attitude. DA:O 2 (or a game in that vein) is never going to happen, Bioware has forgotten their Baldur's Gate legacy and Mass Effect is loaning characters from Killzone. If you know of a better way to show my dissatisfaction (taking into account I already pursued the calm posting route, and of course the option of not buying their future games) I don't see any other way than internet rage. I can't get less than I've already got.

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

You are talking to a very reasonable BW employee. If you remove the fingers from your ears and try to read it again when you are calm then maybe you can see it in a different light. You can have your own opinion, but there is no need to shout or be rude about it.

*looks for an old lady who wants to cross the street*

I've adressed him before without an answer, and not only him for that matter. I've read their PR comments in many lights mind you, so much that I preordered DA2 even though I expected (and got ) the worst. 
And although you seem like a reasonable person, I don't agree with your "there is no need to shout or be rude about it." part. To me there is all the reason to be that way as I explained previously. I am entitled to be enraged about this, and to feel strongly, sorry if I'm obnoxious, I found out there  is nothing else for me to do about it.

Modifié par ink07, 21 juillet 2011 - 08:36 .

[Cyberarmy]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Snip*

So lets say, İ have a favorite restaurant that i go once a week for its famous steak. And it is the only rest. on that continent making delicous steaks satisfies my "gusto"
And then they just decide to make that steak smaller, not enough cooked nearly raw, not decorating it with side dishes to appeal a new crowd that never ate steak before. And for the same price before...
i hear rumors about my lovely rest. go nuts, i go there to check, order that steak, couldn't finished it and spit some out (sorry for the disgusting image) and then call the waiter.
Me-Erm that steak is a bit raw can you cook it a bit more please.
Wait-No sir cannot, cooking times are fixed and we cannot extend them for the sake of profit.
-What about some side dishes? İt came with mashed potatoes and onions before now only meat.
-Of course we can add them, for 10$ each side dish. No matter what it is.
-Cough*burglary*cough. sigh
Can i have the good'ol style steak please im ready to pay for it.
-No sir, it is clear you dont know what a good steak is. Old style was rubbish.
-OKKay clearly im not wanted here, going Europe to eat a new rib roast. And no change for you...


As for now i have no restaurant  that i can eat steak:(   İ think i need to manage with Poland style rib roast. At least not that hungry anymore.

Who am i kidding writing all that stuff make feel hungry:blink:

[AngryFrozenWater]

ink07 wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

You are talking to a very reasonable BW employee. If you remove the fingers from your ears and try to read it again when you are calm then maybe you can see it in a different light. You can have your own opinion, but there is no need to shout or be rude about it.

*looks for an old lady who wants to cross the street*

I've adressed him before without an answer, and not only him for that matter. I've read their PR comments in many lights mind you, so much that I preordered DA2 even though I expected (and got ) the worst. 
And although you seem like a reasonable person, I don't agree with your "there is no need to shout or be rude about it." part. To me there is all the reason to be that way as I explained previously. I am entitled to be enraged about this, and to feel strongly, sorry if I'm obnoxious, I found out there  is nothing else for me to do about it.

Hmmm. I don't think it is a good plan. If you want to change things then use arguments in a constructive manner. The only thing you achieve by your attitude is a significant chance of getting yourself banned. That doesn't sound like a bright idea.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 21 juillet 2011 - 08:55 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I find it somewhat amusing that Bioware is being compared to joints that flip burgers and steaks.

"Would you like DLCs with that?"

Seriously though, hoorayforicecream has it right. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you can't buy a similar product to the one you liked anywhere else, too bad. Products are discontinued or changed all the time, and it's fine to be upset but it's not cool to be a douche about it. Not that I think saying so (again) will change the internet or anything.

[hoorayforicecream]

Cyberarmy wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Snip*

So lets say, İ have a favorite restaurant that i go once a week for its famous steak. And it is the only rest. on that continent making delicous steaks satisfies my "gusto"
And then they just decide to make that steak smaller, not enough cooked nearly raw, not decorating it with side dishes to appeal a new crowd that never ate steak before. And for the same price before...
i hear rumors about my lovely rest. go nuts, i go there to check, order that steak, couldn't finished it and spit some out (sorry for the disgusting image) and then call the waiter.
Me-Erm that steak is a bit raw can you cook it a bit more please.
Wait-No sir cannot, cooking times are fixed and we cannot extend them for the sake of profit.
-What about some side dishes? İt came with mashed potatoes and onions before now only meat.
-Of course we can add them, for 10$ each side dish. No matter what it is.
-Cough*burglary*cough. sigh
Can i have the good'ol style steak please im ready to pay for it.
-No sir, it is clear you dont know what a good steak is. Old style was rubbish.
-OKKay clearly im not wanted here, going Europe to eat a new rib roast. And no change for you...


As for now i have no restaurant  that i can eat steak:(   İ think i need to manage with Poland style rib roast. At least not that hungry anymore.

Who am i kidding writing all that stuff make feel hungry:blink:

As sad as that might be, the company still doesn't owe you anything. They changed, and that sucks. But that doesn't justify you trying to force them to going back to the way things were by throwing a tantrum. Yelling at them, insulting them, and calling them names has a much lower chance of them being sympathetic to you than telling them honestly what you feel in a calm and collected manner. They're much more likely to listen to that than if you hurl insults and try to chase off their other customers. In that case they'll just get a restraining order.

I'm not asking for you to like DA2. I'm just asking for you to be civil in your dislike.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I find it somewhat amusing that Bioware is being compared to joints that flip burgers and steaks.

"Would you like DLCs with that?"

Seriously though, hoorayforicecream has it right. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you can't buy a similar product to the one you liked anywhere else, too bad. Products are discontinued or changed all the time, and it's fine to be upset but it's not cool to be a douche about it. Not that I think saying so (again) will change the internet or anything.

Nah. I think that even Bioware only partially agrees with you. This forum is not only here to facilitate the fans. It is also used to gather opinions to make improvements on their games. If what you said was true then we could change the forums to a digital altar and pray to the Holy Bioware Overlords instead.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 21 juillet 2011 - 09:21 .

[Firky]

My problem with this current trend of discourse (being abusive to make a point) is that it contradicts the aim of trying to legitimize gamers as a mature and intelligent audience.

(Not with the criticism itself.)

And, I used to go out with a guy who would have had a public tantrum if his steak was wrong. (Thank goodness that is in the past. Is that form of communication what anyone really wants in life, internet or no?)

[Cyne]

I'm glad they're listening and apparently trying to appease both groups, but a dlc can only do so much. It'll take until DA3 is out to know for sure what direction the franchise is going in. Although for what it's worth, I think Legacy will be pretty good, it looks good from the trailer, and the warden-based story is intriguing. I can understand where all the vitriol towards bioware is coming from though... people say it's just a game chill out etc. but when you care about something it's only natural to become vocal when you see it heading in an unwanted direction. And it's this vocal minority that spreads the word when bioware releases a good product, so antagonizing them too much is just stupid IMO.

Modifié par Cyne, 21 juillet 2011 - 09:10 .

[Savber100]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I find it somewhat amusing that Bioware is being compared to joints that flip burgers and steaks.

"Would you like DLCs with that?"

Seriously though, hoorayforicecream has it right. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you can't buy a similar product to the one you liked anywhere else, too bad. Products are discontinued or changed all the time, and it's fine to be upset but it's not cool to be a douche about it. Not that I think saying so (again) will change the internet or anything.

A consumer has every right to express dissent against a company that they have grown invested or fond of. It's a business after all.

Look at Coca-Cola when they decided to change the taste with New Cola. (Hurray for more food examples!)  When people disliked it, they didn't just stop buying it. They led a backlash with vicious expression of dissatisfaction which then forced Coke to resume the original line of Cola they loved. 

The same goes with DA2. There's a current group that is a SIGNIFICANT part of the DA audience that wants a return to Origins. We complain LOUDLY so Bioware would listen. While some are more rude than others, that doesn't mean we should just be silent and upset to changes that we believe is wrong. 

Modifié par Savber100, 21 juillet 2011 - 09:15 .

[TEWR]

The sad thing is some of the older gamers are the ones that throw tantrums, while the younger ones are the ones that can keep their cool.

[ink07]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The sad thing is some of the older gamers are the ones that throw tantrums, while the younger ones are the ones that can keep their cool.

LOL, I'd like to know how you came to this conclusion.

The younger gamers will eat up trash as long as it is specifically catered to them, i.e. easily digestible  characters/plot, linear design (fom the shooter school of button-awesome) and no challenge/strategy(planning whatsoever. That is why they don't appreciate what old-schoolers do and don't complaint. When the younger ones can't fin this they'll move on to the next fodder franchise for them.

See, I can say outlandish stuff too.

[Melca36]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The sad thing is some of the older gamers are the ones that throw tantrums, while the younger ones are the ones that can keep their cool.

Hey don't lump all the older gamers into one category please.

I don't believe that guy is as old as he claimed and if he gets this angry over a game, I shudder to think what his temper is like over truly serious issues.

When all is said and done, its just a game.  I enjoyed it for what it was but it was by no means BETTER than Origins.
My issues with the game are NOT going to stop me from buying the dlc. 
I will need something to do when the construction guys come to redo my kitchen cabinets.

[Savber100]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The sad thing is some of the older gamers are the ones that throw tantrums, while the younger ones are the ones that can keep their cool.

Whoa... I'm not throwing a tantrum, <awkward pause> No really, I'm not. :innocent:

I might be a little more passionate about these games but I do focus on addresing the issues in the GAME or COMPANY rather than saying that our beloved Lead Designer is horrible etc etc. :happy:

[TEWR]

Why are people ignoring the "some" in my comment? I'm not saying all, or even most. Some.

I just see some posters on other threads who say they've been gaming for years and years and years, and they act like children in posts about DA2 and Bioware.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 21 juillet 2011 - 09:35 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Nah. I think that even Bioware only partially agrees with you. This forum is not only here to facilitate the fans. It is also used to gather oponions to make improvements on their games. If what you said was true then we could change the forums to a digital altar and pray to the Holy Bioware Overlords instead.

Oh, I didn't say we can't express our disatisfaction or anything (or I hope I didn't--I didn't mean to). I just meant to say we should do so politely. You can be upset about something without being rude, and being at least civil is likely to yield a better response. I certainly wouldn't listen seriously to someone who tried to froth their opinions at me in a cloud of bile.

Savber100 wrote...

A consumer has every right to express dissent against a company that they have grown invested or fond of. It's a business after all.

See above. I apologise if I was unclear. In short, I agree that people should be allowed to voice dissent, but I deplore it when people do it in a rude or cruel fashion. We should be better than that.

Firky wrote...

And, I used to go out with a guy who would have had a public tantrum if his steak was wrong. (Thank goodness that is in the past. Is that form of communication what anyone really wants in life, internet or no?)

XD I love me a good steak, personally. Alas it's spag bol for me tonight.,