295 réponses à ce sujet

[Dial_595]

ink07 wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

And I'm really not sure what you find objectionable about that last quote. Obviously, the primary audience for any DA2 DLC is people who enjoyed DA2. It'd be rather foolish to focus it on people who didn't like the game - that's not to say that we don't take the concerns of people who disliked aspects of DA2 into account. And that would be the second half of that statement - we're hoping that we can show things with Legacy that indicate we've seen what the fans felt strongly about and worked on improving those aspects. Obviously, not everyone's going to feel that what we do is enough. Some people will feel we didn't address their specific concern. But in the end, the evidence one way or another will be in the content we provide.

This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. Either commit to the "new audience" that "loved your innovations" or don't pretend that you listened to complaints when it is obvious that people who liked the game don't have those complaints in the same place. Yeah, I know where are you going with this: "bububu we minimized/tweaked waves and stopped the reused environments, what else do you want?". Those complaints don't count as "people felt strongly about these". Those are simply mediocre, lazy and obnoxious desing decisions that have no place in a suppossedly AAA developer at all.

Stop trying to antagonize your DA:O fans, or antagnoize them completely once and for all but stop with this "we hope people give the game a chance" BS soon. No one is spinning anything right now. You came out and said something, now stick by it.

YOU ARE NOT THE VICTIMS HERE AND PEOPLE WHO DISLIKED YOUR GAME ARE NOT AT FAULT AND ARE NOT THE EVIL DUDES OUT FOR YOUR HEADS. GEEZ!

DA2, worst $60 I threw away. I seriously hope this DLC fails and this god forsaken series is put to rest.

I agree with this post. DA2 as an AAA-title deserves alot more bashing than it ever got IMO. That said I enjoyed it, but I felt constantly cheated out of what I was hoping to be a great gaming experience because of the bugs and re-sued environments. The whole thing stank of rushed and lazy and that I did not enjoy.

The combat system for the PS3 wasn't going anywhere. I'm probably your target audience - I want action as opposed to strategic RPG play. But mashing a button for every blow for 35 hours isn't action, that was clearly a decision sprung purely from Biware's inability to innovate whatsoever.

This game, not as a DA product, but as a gaming product judged on it's own was a travesty and failure - and I seriously think you should be ashamed for launching it as an AAA-title.

That said, I enjoyed the story immensely. But what I was playing on release day was the only game I've ever had freeze on my PS3, which I thought kind of telling but then it continually got worse with the bugs affecting both gameplay and story.

I'm a consumer. I don't care why you made the decisions you did, but face up to the facts - you don't think people like me WANTED to enjoy DA2? I'm not setting the preference there - you're the developer, you're the one doing that by the system you're building.

I loved DA:O on the console because it felt like a smooth gaming experince, with an interesting story. With DA2 the story was there but the gameplay and environments just broke all suspension of disbelief constantly and was just terrible.

[hoorayforicecream]

Savber100 wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I find it somewhat amusing that Bioware is being compared to joints that flip burgers and steaks.

"Would you like DLCs with that?"

Seriously though, hoorayforicecream has it right. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you can't buy a similar product to the one you liked anywhere else, too bad. Products are discontinued or changed all the time, and it's fine to be upset but it's not cool to be a douche about it. Not that I think saying so (again) will change the internet or anything.

A consumer has every right to express dissent against a company that they have grown invested or fond of. It's a business after all.

Look at Coca-Cola when they decided to change the taste with New Cola. (Hurray for more food examples!)  When people disliked it, they didn't just stop buying it. They led a backlash with vicious expression of dissatisfaction which then forced Coke to resume the original line of Cola they loved. 

The same goes with DA2. There's a current group that is a SIGNIFICANT part of the DA audience that wants a return to Origins. We complain LOUDLY so Bioware would listen. While some are more rude than others, that doesn't mean we should just be silent and upset to changes that we believe is wrong. 

Nobody forced Coke to do anything. They switched back because of a large change in revenue, not because their former customers pitched fits. Pitching fits does not work. If people were hosting angry protests, but still buying New Coke as much as they bought the old stuff, Coca Cola would never have rolled it back. Voting with your wallet works. Throwing tantrums is silly and juvenile.

If DA2 was an overwhelming sales failure, EA wouldn't have green lit DA3, or any DLC, or used it as an example of a strong brand to their investors during their conference calls. Not unless they are somehow trying to pull some sort of giant cover-up, and lie to the SEC and their investors while they are at it.  But that wouldn't make any sense, because EA has traditionally never been afraid to tell their investors when things aren't going well (Mirror's Edge, Medal of Honor).

Seriously, vote with your wallet. That's the only thing that will have an impact.

[AngryFrozenWater]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

Nah. I think that even Bioware only partially agrees with you. This forum is not only here to facilitate the fans. It is also used to gather oponions to make improvements on their games. If what you said was true then we could change the forums to a digital altar and pray to the Holy Bioware Overlords instead.

Oh, I didn't say we can't express our disatisfaction or anything (or I hope I didn't--I didn't mean to). I just meant to say we should do so politely. You can be upset about something without being rude, and being at least civil is likely to yield a better response. I certainly wouldn't listen seriously to someone who tried to froth their opinions at me in a cloud of bile.

Phew... I was indeed wondering where that came from. It would be very unlike you. The above makes more sense to me.

[Maugrim]

The New Coke argument is funny because in blind taste tests it did better than the old coke.  Nostalgia is a hell of a filter.

Or maybe it's just similar to the new coke scam, maybe Bioware made DA2 to increase sales to DA3 when it reverts to the old formula and these whiners are being played like a fiddle.

Modifié par makenzieshepard, 21 juillet 2011 - 09:56 .

[Savber100]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I find it somewhat amusing that Bioware is being compared to joints that flip burgers and steaks.

"Would you like DLCs with that?"

Seriously though, hoorayforicecream has it right. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you can't buy a similar product to the one you liked anywhere else, too bad. Products are discontinued or changed all the time, and it's fine to be upset but it's not cool to be a douche about it. Not that I think saying so (again) will change the internet or anything.

A consumer has every right to express dissent against a company that they have grown invested or fond of. It's a business after all.

Look at Coca-Cola when they decided to change the taste with New Cola. (Hurray for more food examples!)  When people disliked it, they didn't just stop buying it. They led a backlash with vicious expression of dissatisfaction which then forced Coke to resume the original line of Cola they loved. 

The same goes with DA2. There's a current group that is a SIGNIFICANT part of the DA audience that wants a return to Origins. We complain LOUDLY so Bioware would listen. While some are more rude than others, that doesn't mean we should just be silent and upset to changes that we believe is wrong. 

Nobody forced Coke to do anything. They switched back because of a large change in revenue, not because their former customers pitched fits. Pitching fits does not work. If people were hosting angry protests, but still buying New Coke as much as they bought the old stuff, Coca Cola would never have rolled it back. Voting with your wallet works. Throwing tantrums is silly and juvenile.

If DA2 was an overwhelming sales failure, EA wouldn't have green lit DA3, or any DLC, or used it as an example of a strong brand to their investors during their conference calls. Not unless they are somehow trying to pull some sort of giant cover-up, and lie to the SEC and their investors while they are at it.  But that wouldn't make any sense, because EA has traditionally never been afraid to tell their investors when things aren't going well (Mirror's Edge, Medal of Honor).

Seriously, vote with your wallet. That's the only thing that will have an impact.

I agree that pitching fits don't work because they don't make sense. But don't group together those that pitch fits with those that have legitimate concerns and complaints. 

In a industry where both the artistic and business meld, the consumers need to do more than just don't buy a product. They need to voice their reasons as in an artistic medium, you can't just simply ignore the artwork to express your dislike. You must also criticize the piece and give points for improvement. As much as both sides want to argue that the gaming industry is either an artistic or business endeavor, we need to realize it's both hence the importance of both voiced criticism and boycotts. 

[hoorayforicecream]

Savber100 wrote...

I agree that pitching fits don't work because they don't make sense. But don't group together those that pitch fits with those that have legitimate concerns and complaints. 

In a industry where both the artistic and business meld, the consumers need to do more than just don't buy a product. They need to voice their reasons as in an artistic medium, you can't just simply ignore the artwork to express your dislike. You must also criticize the piece and give points for improvement. As much as both sides want to argue that the gaming industry is either an artistic or business endeavor, we need to realize it's both hence the importance of both voiced criticism and boycotts. 

Legitimate concerns and complains stop when you stop talking about the game. The moment you start talking about spitting in the face, disrespect, or the developers themselves, you go beyond the real and into the land of conjecture. Giving valid, reasonable criticism of the game is fine. But you can't give valid, reasonable criticism of the company or the employees, because you don't know anything about their actual inner workings. You only know what's been shown in public, which is only a handful of minutes compared to the thousands of man-hours spent on the development of the game and content over the past two years.

In closing, I'll quote myself, because you seem to have missed it.

Feel free to tell them why, but for heaven's sake, do so in a civil
manner. Quoting Moby Dick, saying they are spitting in your face and
calling them the devil is not civil. It's behaving in typical internet
nerd rage manner, and that's never ever been able to convince anyone to
do anything except perhaps facepalm at your antics.

[Savber100]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Legitimate concerns and complains stop when you stop talking about the game. The moment you start talking about spitting in the face, disrespect, or the developers themselves, you go beyond the real and into the land of conjecture. Giving valid, reasonable criticism of the game is fine. But you can't give valid, reasonable criticism of the company or the employees, because you don't know anything about their actual inner workings. You only know what's been shown in public, which is only a handful of minutes compared to the thousands of man-hours spent on the development of the game and content over the past two years.

In closing, I'll quote myself, because you seem to have missed it.

Feel free to tell them why, but for heaven's sake, do so in a civil 
manner. Quoting Moby Dick, saying they are spitting in your face and 
calling them the devil is not civil. It's behaving in typical internet 
nerd rage manner, and that's never ever been able to convince anyone to 
do anything except perhaps facepalm at your antics.

Let me quote myself also since you seemed to have missed MY position/stance as well. 

Savber100 wrote...

I might be a little more passionate about these games but I do focus on addresing the issues in the GAME or COMPANY rather than saying that our beloved Lead Designer is horrible etc etc. :happy:

We can agree that personal attacks are wrong and do little to achieve anything. While I disagree that the COMPANY should be free from criticism, I'm glad there's a general agreement that people like us want Bioware to continue to be a positive influence on the gaming industry as a whole and an understanding of the value of criticism in regards to artistic endevaors ranging from literature to games.

So in the end if I had gone out of line, tell me plainly and I'll revise my words for it was not my intent to wound or bash.

With that addressed, I hope Bioware would find a even ground where both the current divide in the DA audience can be repaired. 

Modifié par Savber100, 21 juillet 2011 - 11:09 .

[Sinuphro]

if you are smart...do not buy legacy or the other dragon age 2 dlc. You just heard right? They do not care about our opinions. I say we hit them where it hurts...their profit. Perhaps if we just stop buying anything Dragon Age related they will learn their lesson. Perhaps when they produce future dragon age DLC or DA3 and only 20 to 100 customers buy it perhaps they would learn their lesson but it would be too late by then. Oh and that MaidLaw or whatever his or her name is and the workers that work under him that are not bugging this person about the direction dragon age has taken...you guys better start finding a new job lol cause once dragon age fails...your team and that guy are going to be laid off or fired for crumbing a prestigious game title so...you better take my advice and start looking for another job.

[Sinuphro]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I find it somewhat amusing that Bioware is being compared to joints that flip burgers and steaks.

"Would you like DLCs with that?"

Seriously though, hoorayforicecream has it right. If you don't like it, don't buy it. If you can't buy a similar product to the one you liked anywhere else, too bad. Products are discontinued or changed all the time, and it's fine to be upset but it's not cool to be a douche about it. Not that I think saying so (again) will change the internet or anything.

A consumer has every right to express dissent against a company that they have grown invested or fond of. It's a business after all.

Look at Coca-Cola when they decided to change the taste with New Cola. (Hurray for more food examples!)  When people disliked it, they didn't just stop buying it. They led a backlash with vicious expression of dissatisfaction which then forced Coke to resume the original line of Cola they loved. 

The same goes with DA2. There's a current group that is a SIGNIFICANT part of the DA audience that wants a return to Origins. We complain LOUDLY so Bioware would listen. While some are more rude than others, that doesn't mean we should just be silent and upset to changes that we believe is wrong. 

Nobody forced Coke to do anything. They switched back because of a large change in revenue, not because their former customers pitched fits. Pitching fits does not work. If people were hosting angry protests, but still buying New Coke as much as they bought the old stuff, Coca Cola would never have rolled it back. Voting with your wallet works. Throwing tantrums is silly and juvenile.

If DA2 was an overwhelming sales failure, EA wouldn't have green lit DA3, or any DLC, or used it as an example of a strong brand to their investors during their conference calls. Not unless they are somehow trying to pull some sort of giant cover-up, and lie to the SEC and their investors while they are at it.  But that wouldn't make any sense, because EA has traditionally never been afraid to tell their investors when things aren't going well (Mirror's Edge, Medal of Honor).

Seriously, vote with your wallet. That's the only thing that will have an impact.

The only reason they claim DA2 was not a failure was because lots of people bought it as a straightbuy due to dragon age origins being so great. Now that several players have seen how bad DA2 is and how Bioware treats their customers...they are going to be in serious trouble. Of course I will also start doing my part by spreading the word how bad DA2 was and how Bioware treats their customers. I will tweet it and tell all my facebook friends. Its gonna be interesting how things turn out. I was posting here and complaining because I cared. However, since it is crystal clear the company does not care about the opinion of the majority this may likely be my last post here. I am tired trying to bring common sense to bioware so I will just do what I setup to do. Kudos to bioware if you recover after I spam how low the company has fallen.

[daemon1129]

Dial_595 wrote...

ink07 wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

And I'm really not sure what you find objectionable about that last quote. Obviously, the primary audience for any DA2 DLC is people who enjoyed DA2. It'd be rather foolish to focus it on people who didn't like the game - that's not to say that we don't take the concerns of people who disliked aspects of DA2 into account. And that would be the second half of that statement - we're hoping that we can show things with Legacy that indicate we've seen what the fans felt strongly about and worked on improving those aspects. Obviously, not everyone's going to feel that what we do is enough. Some people will feel we didn't address their specific concern. But in the end, the evidence one way or another will be in the content we provide.

This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. Either commit to the "new audience" that "loved your innovations" or don't pretend that you listened to complaints when it is obvious that people who liked the game don't have those complaints in the same place. Yeah, I know where are you going with this: "bububu we minimized/tweaked waves and stopped the reused environments, what else do you want?". Those complaints don't count as "people felt strongly about these". Those are simply mediocre, lazy and obnoxious desing decisions that have no place in a suppossedly AAA developer at all.

Stop trying to antagonize your DA:O fans, or antagnoize them completely once and for all but stop with this "we hope people give the game a chance" BS soon. No one is spinning anything right now. You came out and said something, now stick by it.

YOU ARE NOT THE VICTIMS HERE AND PEOPLE WHO DISLIKED YOUR GAME ARE NOT AT FAULT AND ARE NOT THE EVIL DUDES OUT FOR YOUR HEADS. GEEZ!

DA2, worst $60 I threw away. I seriously hope this DLC fails and this god forsaken series is put to rest.

I agree with this post. DA2 as an AAA-title deserves alot more bashing than it ever got IMO. That said I enjoyed it, but I felt constantly cheated out of what I was hoping to be a great gaming experience because of the bugs and re-sued environments. The whole thing stank of rushed and lazy and that I did not enjoy.

The combat system for the PS3 wasn't going anywhere. I'm probably your target audience - I want action as opposed to strategic RPG play. But mashing a button for every blow for 35 hours isn't action, that was clearly a decision sprung purely from Biware's inability to innovate whatsoever.

This game, not as a DA product, but as a gaming product judged on it's own was a travesty and failure - and I seriously think you should be ashamed for launching it as an AAA-title.

That said, I enjoyed the story immensely. But what I was playing on release day was the only game I've ever had freeze on my PS3, which I thought kind of telling but then it continually got worse with the bugs affecting both gameplay and story.

I'm a consumer. I don't care why you made the decisions you did, but face up to the facts - you don't think people like me WANTED to enjoy DA2? I'm not setting the preference there - you're the developer, you're the one doing that by the system you're building.

I loved DA:O on the console because it felt like a smooth gaming experince, with an interesting story. With DA2 the story was there but the gameplay and environments just broke all suspension of disbelief constantly and was just terrible.

I agree comepletely. If you think DA2 is a good game, then Deux Ex Invisble War was a great game.  DA2 might have some geniunely fresh and interesting moments that deserves praises, but for those who are just angry at the game for being disappointing wouldn't care a bit.  If anyone ask me what was your favourite moment in DA2, I would say none.  Not because there isn't, but I was so mad I don't care even if there were any.  This is of course a bit of my own fault for being perhaps a bit too cynical, but it would still be the game's fault for being that disapointing.  

I wasn't expecting a game of the year, I was expecting a sequel with lots of fan services for the fans, a relatively shorter game that are meant to milk the crowd while they can.  Instead we get a game that tries to differ itself from the original, saying they want the CoD crowd and slap the fans in the face while they are at it. 

KoToR2 and NWN2 were sequels that are pretty much identical to the original, it barely improved at all, yet both were well recieved by crtics and most fans, why?  Because they don't make fans feel betrayed.  They don't have millions pre-order bonuses, day 1 dlcs, "Awesome" Button, a "reboot" to a game that was only 2 years old, etc. 

I don't see how I can even remotely enjoy this game when I start thinking about all these in my head when I'm playing anything RPG.

[Firky]

Edit: Ninja'd @Sinuphro  Let's assume you have a lot of Twitter followers and Facebook friends.

@Savber. Passion is good. (If you are still around - or anyone else) what do you reckon this entails? "With that addressed, I hope Bioware would find a even ground where both the current divide in the DA audience can be repaired. "

Personally, I think the DLC could do some of it. I'd like to see better item descriptions, for example. That's more RPG. Or, item names, because names wouldn't be inconsistent with the rest of the game. Technically, a sibling could *spoiler* die, if you screwed up some brutal choice/consquence moment and the ending would still make sense. That gameplay video showed HEAPS of stuff they've tweaked combat-wise.

What else?

Modifié par Firky, 21 juillet 2011 - 11:23 .

[TEWR]

I'm surprised no one mentioned how ****ty enemy AI is in both Dragon Age games (or if it has been mentioned, then I missed it).

Not to mention how the enemies use Origins animations while we use the new animations. Mages got a new one, but it's a footstomp dance that doesn't really do anything from what I could tell.

Seriously, why can't we be staggered? Why can't we be frozen?

[Firky]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Seriously, why can't we be staggered? Why can't we be frozen?

Those are two states that I very, very frequently make the best of in DAII.

Staggered = chain lightning. Frozen (+ brittle) = bursting arrow. (I'm guessing I'm misinterpreting you.)

Also, on animations. On the one hand, I love them. Combat is so fluid, like a dance. On the other, Hawke is always waving his stick around when he has a split second in which I want him to do something. Arrgh.

Slightly more on topic. I'm guessing that animations wont change in the DLC, but that gameplay video made knockbacks look different. I wonder what's going on there. And interruptions.

[bleetman]

ink07 wrote...

This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. Either commit to the "new audience" that "loved your innovations" or don't pretend that you listened to complaints when it is obvious that people who liked the game don't have those complaints in the same place.

I enjoyed Dragon Age 2. I also had many, many criticisms which I'm hoping they've addressed here.

But apparently I don't actually exist.

[Firky]

^ Don't worry. I'm an old school Baldur's Gate fan who loved Origins and thought DAII was just slightly more enjoyable, and that some changes to gameplay made a lot of sense. I exist slightly less than you.

But, I'm going to stop bothering this thread now. Except to say, I think that's what I find most irksome about the "right" to criticise the game in an abusive manner (Constructive is OK.) is that I'm offended by the idea that people who came around to enjoying DAII are treated as "stoopid" by many detractors. (We aren't.)

[TEWR]

Firky wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
Seriously, why can't we be staggered? Why can't we be frozen?

Those are two states that I very, very frequently make the best of in DAII.

Staggered = chain lightning. Frozen (+ brittle) = bursting arrow. (I'm guessing I'm misinterpreting you.)

Also, on animations. On the one hand, I love them. Combat is so fluid, like a dance. On the other, Hawke is always waving his stick around when he has a split second in which I want him to do something. Arrgh.

Slightly more on topic. I'm guessing that animations wont change in the DLC, but that gameplay video made knockbacks look different. I wonder what's going on there. And interruptions.

No you interpreted me right. I'd like to see enemies using skills that we can learn, and then use cross class combos as well.

I'd also like for commander type enemies to.... I don't know.... command their enemies. It would be something nice to see.

Seriously, imagine a commander telling all of his men that have swords and shields to form a line, and the only way you can damage them (as the line makes them immune to damage) is to use an AoE spell that knocks them back and breaks the line. It wouldn't damage them, but it would allow you to continue attacking them.

Not sure what you mean by Hawke waving his stick around though.

bleetman wrote...

ink07 wrote...

This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. Either commit to the "new audience" that "loved your innovations" or don't pretend that you listened to complaints when it is obvious that people who liked the game don't have those complaints in the same place.

I enjoyed Dragon Age 2. I also had many, many criticisms which I'm hoping they've addressed here.

But apparently I don't actually exist.

You never did exist. You're a figment of your own imagination.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 21 juillet 2011 - 11:45 .

[Firky]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Not sure what you mean by Hawke waving his stick around though.

Combat animations. I'm always waiting for him to finish one when I need him to do something in a hurry. (I'm just barely scraping by difficulty-wise at the moment.)

On enemies, I agree. Mostly. I'd like them to play by the same, or similar, rules. They can do stuff like heal their troops and focus them on one person, etc, though, right?

[Saintthanksgiving]

Please explain to me how calling angry origin fans "children" is any more meaningful to this debate than any angry rant. If you disagree with someonespoint, then make a counter point. Lecturing people on the tone of their posts is just as much spam as anything else.

I paid 60 bucks for DA2, so if im not happy about it, I'm gonna say so. I also happen to think that the only way DA3 might be any better is if Bioware listens to my genius level insight.

As far as being nice to the devs, I have shown them as much respect as they have shown me. I had a back and forth with gaider about the content/DLC issue and managed not to get banned.

Im not gonna sit here and listen to this DA2 isn't a sequel to DA1 nonsense without calling bull----

[Cutlasskiwi]

Firky wrote...

^ Don't worry. I'm an old school Baldur's Gate fan who loved Origins and thought DAII was just slightly more enjoyable, and that some changes to gameplay made a lot of sense. I exist slightly less than you.

But, I'm going to stop bothering this thread now. Except to say, I think that's what I find most irksome about the "right" to criticise the game in an abusive manner (Constructive is OK.) is that I'm offended by the idea that people who came around to enjoying DAII are treated as "stoopid" by many detractors. (We aren't.)

Hey, me too (and I count BGII as my favorite game)! Only I enjoyed DAII a lot more than DAO. Me and the Warden just didn't click on any level.

As for your second paragraph, agree 100%. But this is the internet and the BSN so I can't say that I'm surprised.

[TEWR]

Firky wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Not sure what you mean by Hawke waving his stick around though.

Combat animations. I'm always waiting for him to finish one when I need him to do something in a hurry. (I'm just barely scraping by difficulty-wise at the moment.)

On enemies, I agree. Mostly. I'd like them to play by the same, or similar, rules. They can do stuff like heal their troops and focus them on one person, etc, though, right?

Ah like when you issue a command and he says "Okay, just let me do my spin strike with my greatsword first."


As far as I can tell with enemies, sometimes they'll use a potion, but mages don't even bother using heal or spirit healer talents.

And the enemies usually just surround one person and assault them. Or try to anyway. But since they use Origins animations (and can also be slowed if you use cone of cold and don't freeze them) it basically doesn't matter, as it takes them 2 minutes to land the one hit they've been moving for.

[TEWR]

Filament wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I'm surprised no one mentioned how ****ty enemy AI is in both Dragon Age games (or if it has been mentioned, then I missed it).

Not to mention how the enemies use Origins animations while we use the new animations. Mages got a new one, but it's a footstomp dance that doesn't really do anything from what I could tell.

Seriously, why can't we be staggered? Why can't we be frozen?

Enemies and player characters simply have different ability sets by design, and I'm fine with this. Since an ability used against the player's party by AI will often be vastly different in terms of effectiveness than that same ability used against enemies by the player. Think of how useless Curse of Mortality was for the player but how powerful it was when emissaries used it. In this case, those are abilites to help managing hordes of enemies easier... but if an enemy could stagger you with another 20 enemies ready to take advantage of it, that would be pretty frustrating.

I'm sure some will interpret this as me supporting them dumbing it down for teh kiddies even though overall I find DA2 on Nightmare a more difficult and tactical experience than Origins. Origins did have its own share of overpowered abilities enemies weren't allowed access to as well, for instance Mana Clash.

I agree with you for the most part.

But if they tone down the waves (which they've admitted to doing) then it would provide for a more tactical experience because you'd have to rush over to your ally and help them out, lest you lose them in the fight and become a target yourself.

I mean, as it stands they use like one ability and then go into basic attack mode.

[PillarBiter]

Tommy6860 wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...

happy_daiz wrote...

I really like seeing my own username, j/k. Actually, I'll be signing off here in about 5 minutes, so you won't see me again until tomorrow. 

I'm trying to figure out why reactions to DA2 are so polarized. What you perceive as me defending BW is me playing devil's advocate.

Edit: I think the experience for players is different on each platform, and I'm curious if that is related to the issues people have with this game, or if it's a nostalgia/expectation thing, or what. Sadly, I try hard to be a fixer, but it doesn't always work out for me.

It's polarizing because it's pretty radically different from its predecessor, and a lot of people really, really liked the old one and wanted more of it, while DA2 went in a different direction. A lot of folks really wanted to like DA2, and didn't for a variety of reasons, and that's spurred them to keep bashing the game on a daily (or even hourly!) basis 4 months after release. And the more vocal of them can't see why anyone would like it.

On the other side, there are those who did like it, and still do, and they don't like being told that they shouldn't like the game they actually do enjoy.  It's natural for those folks to take umbrage at being told that what they like sucks, and that they suck for liking it.

And there are really very few moderates left, because they automatically get perceived as belonging to one camp or another by the opposition, and many, many of the louder proponents simply aren't interested in discussion anymore, and instead reduce the argument to shouting down any opposition instead of actual discussion.  I'm sure you've seen some of that on the forum.

It's really weird, because many of the haters seem to think that they are the ones in the vast majority, and that the DLC should be catering to them to beg for their forgiveness and win them back. Clearly, the DLC is aimed at people who enjoyed DA2 (because hey, bird in hand is worth two in the bush), but that doesn't mean that they didn't try to address the issues they felt needed improvement that they could within the context of a DLC. I don't think anyone believes DA2 is a perfect game, but neither do I think it's as bad as the haters make it out to be.

This^ so much, and great post hooray! I did not hate DA2, it wasn't a bad game, it just doesn't fit my style of an RPG. This is exactly the thinking approach I would expect from any one who reasons why they like what they do and what they do not.

thank god for reasonable people

In my earlier post I was trying to be as distant as possible from any crowd and still got bashed by the anti-DA2 crowd. Seriously annoying.

[Cyberarmy]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Multisnip

Don't you worry,me and me wallet going to be very civil. İf EA  didn't ensure that with Dragon Age 2, they sure  did with Old Republic and its "awesome" pre-order policy....

Another nail on the coffin.

[Cyberarmy]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


I mean, as it stands they use like one ability and then go into basic attack mode.

So true... Only multi skill using enemies i remember were Rogue stereotypes. All human mages are blood magic users with blood wound, all captain-commander types just swung their sword&board lunatic and e.g.


Why they didn't involved any group agains group combats is beyond me. İ mean against another party consist of 1 S&B fighter, 1 dual wield () or 2 handed fighter, 1 rogue( archer,dagger) and 1 mage(healer or annoying CCer)
and let them use Cross class abilities...

İ never tought i would miss the NPC mages that fireballing my poor frontliners, or scatter shoting "BASİC" archer enemies from origins...


Edit: Pardon my double post :/

Modifié par Cyberarmy, 21 juillet 2011 - 12:23 .