19 réponses à ce sujet

[Lusitanum]

I've played BG1 before, but never actually finished it. I thought to correct that recently so I started playing a Paladin, like I did before, but found out that I wasn't enjoying that character all that much, since pretty much all I did was whack at stuff until it fell down.

So, I've thought of trying out a multi-class character for once. I'm thinking of going for a Fighter/Mage/Thief (Elf, maybe) to take me through all the Baldur's Gate games, but I don't know much about how good a character like this would be, besides the fact that I should probably expect to be pretty crappy at the start and that levelling up will take a loooong freaking while.

But besides that, any suggestions? I like playing as all kinds of classes in D&D, but does anyone have any aditional insight that might be elluding me?

[hannibal555]

How 'good' any class is lies in the eye of the beholder.
The F/M/T is actually pretty good, just don't expect him to be as equally powerful as a mage.
He won't reach 9th spell level for example.
But he will be a better Thief or Fighter compared to their solo counterparts.
And if you don't like to simply whack at things there's enough diversion concerning spells and thieving abilities ^^.

[Windfoot]

I would recommend against going a triple multi-class with a mage component unless you're going to solo. You'll be frustrated with not having access to level 9/10 spells and the leveling speed is really significantly slow.

If you're tired of bashing stuff I would go with a caster type. Heck you might even try a mage/cleric multi-class.

[Lusitanum]

In theory, I actually really like to play the Healer, but that's mostly on actual on-line games where I feel like I'm a valuable (and appreciated  ) member of a team, instead of just another piece of the puzzle that is my party (because I'm not going to play this class on anything besides single-player ). But... yeah, playing a Cleric should be fun too, even if that means losing Branwen ;( .

Just out of curiosity, how viable is a mix of my two favorite archetypes: Cleric/Thief (the Healer and the Rogue)? Or something else possibly involving these two?

[Krazy Solo]

As far as Multi-class I cannot say for cleric/thief...

In theory based on what i've seen in BG2 you would be unique character should you decided to playthrough bg2 as well.

I would assume being multi-class cleric/thief you would be something like lvl 8/8 or something around that at the end of bg1 If i'm right might be 7/7 since both class are simular in exp gain at interval lvls. Meaning you will have either lvl 3 or 4 spells as cleric and have enough thief skills to be effiencient at it. Essentially should be a good combo if you don't mind restricted yourself to studded leather most of the game.

[AnonymousHero]

Cleric/Thief can be quite awesome once he gets the Use Any Item ability later in the game (BG2/ToB). He then gains (limited) arcane spellcasting from scrolls (requires 9 INT or more) and the ability to use normally-unavailable weapons for dispelling enemy buffs very reliably. He also gains the ability to use one of a specific set of weapons in the off hand for +1 attack with his main hand.

Even before Use Any Item, they should be quite able to hold their own with a good staff for backstabbing (Martial Staff in BG1 is easily obtainable, Staff of Striking in BG2 is also obtainable quite easily) and the cleric buffs to get extremely high strength.

[ussnorway]

Lusitanum wrote...

In theory, I actually really like to play the Healer, but that's mostly on actual on-line games where I feel like I'm a valuable (and appreciated  ) member of a team, instead of just another piece of the puzzle that is my party (because I'm not going to play this class on anything besides single-player ). But... yeah, playing a Cleric should be fun too, even if that means losing Branwen ;( .

Just out of curiosity, how viable is a mix of my two favorite archetypes: Cleric/Thief (the Healer and the Rogue)? Or something else possibly involving these two?

Elf; Archer or Fighter/Mage works best with long (bows and swords).
Gnome; Cleric/ Thief using a sling... very slow at the start but one of the strongest in ToB!
Human; I'd go swashbucker- dual to cleric at about 11 or Ranger (any type) but dual to cleric early, about level 4 is fine. The first one fights in melee and the second is strong all round, specially casting.

[corey_russell]

I think a good choice for someone wanting to try a multi is a Fighter/Mage or a gnomish Fighter/Illusionist. In BG 1 can be a decent ranged character as he can use a composite bow and mirror image, and in BG 2 he can be in front lines if he wants thanks to his mage defensive buffs, or just rain death from afar with ranged power or spells. A very solid, straightforward, and versatile build, I don't know how you can go wrong with this.

[Lusitanum]

AnonymousHero wrote...

Cleric/Thief can be quite awesome once he gets the Use Any Item ability later in the game (BG2/ToB). He then gains (limited) arcane spellcasting from scrolls (requires 9 INT or more) and the ability to use normally-unavailable weapons for dispelling enemy buffs very reliably. He also gains the ability to use one of a specific set of weapons in the off hand for +1 attack with his main hand.

Even before Use Any Item, they should be quite able to hold their own with a good staff for backstabbing (Martial Staff in BG1 is easily obtainable, Staff of Striking in BG2 is also obtainable quite easily) and the cleric buffs to get extremely high strength.

Well, that sure sounds interessting.

ussnorway wrote...

Elf; Archer or Fighter/Mage works best with long (bows and swords).
Gnome; Cleric/ Thief using a sling... very slow at the start but one of the strongest in ToB!
Human; I'd go swashbucker- dual to cleric at about 11 or Ranger (any type) but dual to cleric early, about level 4 is fine. The first one fights in melee and the second is strong all round, specially casting.

Yeah... Gnome with a slingshot doesn't appeal to me all that much . And that swashbuckler... I'm not sure I understand how exactly that build works.

corey_russell wrote...

I think a good choice for someone
wanting to try a multi is a Fighter/Mage or a gnomish
Fighter/Illusionist. In BG 1 can be a decent ranged character as he can
use a composite bow and mirror image, and in BG 2 he can be in front
lines if he wants thanks to his mage defensive buffs, or just rain death
from afar with ranged power or spells. A very solid, straightforward,
and versatile build, I don't know how you can go wrong with
this.

Well, I guess that just leaves one more combination: Mage/Thief. How good is that one?

[Windfoot]

A swashbuckler is basically a fighter that wears leather who can do all thief skills except backstab. At level 40 a Swashbuckler does +9/+9 to hit/damage along with -9 AC. So, in melee, a dual wielding swashbuckler does only marginally less than a dual wielding fighter (assuming both have the same strength...maybe through an item?) and with a ranged weapon ( a special short bow for example) is only beat by an archer.

The fighter gets his max power alot earlier than a swashbuckler who steadily gains power throughout the game.

[hannibal555]

Lusitanum wrote...

Well, I guess that just leaves one more combination: Mage/Thief. How good is that one?

One of the weaker combinations out of the multiclass options.
You make your mage weaker by splitting XP with the Thief part.
And the Thief actually doesn't contribute this much that your mage can't do anyway:
- Want to hide in shadow -> use invisibility spells, there are quite a bunch of.
- Want to pick locks -> you can as well use the spell 'Knock'
- Traps are a problem -> Stoneskin + Mirror Image will absorb most of the traps, or if traps are such an inconvenience, just use NPC Thieves.
- Backstab is a nice combat tactic but a mage has enough ways to deal with the opponents in a much more efficient way.

Actually the Thief is pretty good when combined with a Fighter, or if a Mage must be in between, take a F/M/T,
because then his backstab ability will be actually worth something.

Concerning the Cleric/Thief, I don't have any experience with him but in theory he sounds interesting, though
Fighter/Thieves and Fighter/Clerics will be much better Fighters and a solo Cleric (or Cleric/Mage) will be a better caster.


Out of my own numerous experiences with different combinations i can suggest:
- Fighter/Mage (Dual or Multi) : A classic, play as an archer/caster in BG1 and a powerful Spellblade in BG2
- F/M/T : very versatile, thieving abilities, excellent backstab, good fighter, nice arsenal of mage support spells (just don't play him as a caster)
- Cleric/Ranger (Dual or Multi): He is actually a Druid/Cleric/Fighter, due to an (intended?) bug he gets all the high
level Druid spells as well, although Ranger solo only has access up to level three.
- Druid/Fighter (Dual or Multi): Similar to the Fighter/Mage but with different spell picks.
- Fighter/Cleric (Dual or Multi): I prefer the Druid (Iron Skin, Insect Spells...) but he is a killer non the less.

The most powerful/versatile solo characters are in my opinion in this order:
- Sorceror or Wildmage (I just don't like the randomness involved here)
- Mage (including specialist)
- Blade

I personally like any of the Paladin kits, fits more my playstyle I guess ^^.

Modifié par hannibal555, 22 juillet 2011 - 01:42 .

[AnonymousHero]

Just a little comment on C/T:

hannibal555 wrote...
Concerning the Cleric/Thief, I don't have any experience with him but in theory he sounds interesting, though
Fighter/Thieves and Fighter/Clerics will be much better Fighters and a solo Cleric (or Cleric/Mage) will be a better caster.

C/T can do almost everything that a F/M/C/T could do (if such a thing existed). The cleric spells give him 25 STR, a fighter's THAC0, guaranteed maximum damage. With Vhailor's helmet (UAI) he can use most mage scrolls without actually expending them -- at the very least on the Simulacrum itself.

AFAICT, the only thing you'd be missing out on is a little extra HP and "built-in" extra APR. (The offensive differential stemming from extra APR can be somewhat reduced by using Belm/Scarlet Ninja-to in the off hand, again UAI to the rescue!)

If you want to optimize a little, you might consider a Priest of Lathander->Thief dual class. They get +1 attack per round for 20 rounds (assuming you reach level 20/21.) from Boon of Lathander, so that basically makes up for the lack of Fighter levels. This stacks with Improved Haste, btw.

... and of course traps, if you're so inclined.

Dislaimer: I haven't tried them myself, but I've read the detailed accounts of people on here (and the old forums) who have. They can be absolutely brutal.

[hannibal555]

AnonymousHero wrote...

With Vhailor's helmet (UAI) he can use most mage scrolls without actually expending them

Uhh, but this IS pretty cheesy.
Exploiting Simulacrum is on of the cheesiest things in game, imho .
What about 5 Simulacrums, hasted, buffed and shapechanged to dragons and then steamroll anyone.
Ok, with the helmet there's only one, but there is a reason that this item along with the Cloak of Mirroring and Balduran's Shield is one of the most banned items by difficulty mods.

Besides this, C/T sounds like a solid choice then.

Modifié par hannibal555, 23 juillet 2011 - 02:20 .

[AnonymousHero]

Sure it can be, but everything depends on context. I wouldn't feel too bad about this kind of thing if, say, one is playing no-reload and there is no other way to beat a fight.

Also, the Simulacrum itself can use them on itself, it doesn't have to "supply" infinite scrolls to the PC.

[Lusitanum]

AnonymousHero wrote...

C/T can do almost everything that a F/M/C/T could do (if such a thing existed). The cleric spells give him 25 STR, a fighter's THAC0, guaranteed maximum damage. With Vhailor's helmet (UAI) he can use most mage scrolls without actually expending them -- at the very least on the Simulacrum itself.

AFAICT, the only thing you'd be missing out on is a little extra HP and "built-in" extra APR. (The offensive differential stemming from extra APR can be somewhat reduced by using Belm/Scarlet Ninja-to in the off hand, again UAI to the rescue!)

If you want to optimize a little, you might consider a Priest of Lathander->Thief dual class. They get +1 attack per round for 20 rounds (assuming you reach level 20/21.) from Boon of Lathander, so that basically makes up for the lack of Fighter levels. This stacks with Improved Haste, btw.

... and of course traps, if you're so inclined.

Dislaimer: I haven't tried them myself, but I've read the detailed accounts of people on here (and the old forums) who have. They can be absolutely brutal.

OK... what's UAI and Simulacrum? If they're somthing to do with mods like Tutu, I'm not using any of that. I'm just playing this as basic, vanilla BG experience.

hannibal555 wrote...

Uhh, but this IS pretty cheesy.
Exploiting Simulacrum is on of the cheesiest things in game, imho .
What about 5 Simulacrums, hasted, buffed and shapechanged to dragons and then steamroll anyone.
Ok,
with the helmet there's only one, but there is a reason that this item
along with the Cloak of Mirroring and Balduran's Shield is one of the
most banned items by difficulty mods.

Besides this, C/T sounds like a solid choice then.

I have no idea what you people are talking about.

AnonymousHero wrote...

Sure it can be, but everything
depends on context. I wouldn't feel too bad about this kind of thing if,
say, one is playing no-reload and there is no other way to beat a
fight.

Also, the Simulacrum itself can use them on itself, it doesn't have to "supply" infinite scrolls to the PC.

Well, in my case, I'm just trying to play my first playthrough, so I don't really feel the need to make any kind of fancy challenges like soloing or doing a ironman run .

Besides that, I'm starting to warm up even more to the idea of a C/T. Does anyone have any good build suggestions?

[AnonymousHero]

Lusitanum wrote...
OK... what's UAI and Simulacrum? If they're somthing to do with mods like Tutu, I'm not using any of that. I'm just playing this as basic, vanilla BG experience.

UAI = Use Any Item. It's a skill high-level thieves get in BG2/ToB. It enables thieves to...(tada!) use  any item in the game provided they have sufficient stats. That mainly means minimum 9 INT for using mage scrolls.

Simulacrum is a high-level spell which can be "cast" by a helmet in BG2, though this is only available if you have the "bonus merchants" -- it basically creates a lower-level copy of your character. I'm not sure if the bonus merchants are available in your particular "vanilla" game.

Btw, you really should install the G3 Fixpack (or at the very least Baldurdash). Both fix a lot of game-breaking bugs.

EDIT: The G3 Fixpack only really applies if you're playing BG2/ToB, though. I'm not sure if there's a fixpack for vanilla BG1.

Lusitanum wrote...
Well, in my case, I'm just trying to play my first playthrough, so I don't really feel the need to make any kind of fancy challenges like soloing or doing a ironman run .

Besides that, I'm starting to warm up even more to the idea of a C/T. Does anyone have any good build suggestions?

There isn't really such a thing as a "build" in BG, other than rolling stats and starting playing .

I'd recommend a short race(*) something like max STR, DEX, CON, WIS and 10 INT and whatever's left in CHA.

(*) Dwarves are probably best in the long run due to saving throw bonuses, but Halflings are sort of the "favored" thief race. I can't recall off-hand if all the short races permit the C/T multiclass.

Modifié par AnonymousHero, 23 juillet 2011 - 04:39 .

[hannibal555]

Simulacrum creates kind of a copy of your character and is treated as a summon, like AnonymousHero said.
The trick is to equip yourself with fancy spell scrolls in the quickitem slot, so that your simulacrum has them, too. Now this summon may use these scrolls, without the main character actually losing them.
Normally only mage classes have the ability to cast Simulacrum (and Bards/Thieves per Scroll via 'Use Any Item'). The Vhailors helmet, though, allows everyone able to wear it to cast it by means of an item ability, usable once per day. This item is available to everyone who applies Biowares official latest patch (at least with ToB addon, don't know about vanilla only).

If this is indeed your first playthrough, just enjoy the game and avoid too much spoilers or the temptation of learning of cheese methods to exploit the game ^^.

Modifié par hannibal555, 23 juillet 2011 - 07:03 .

[Lusitanum]

AnonymousHero wrote...

Btw, you really should install the G3 Fixpack (or at the very least Baldurdash). Both fix a lot of game-breaking bugs.

EDIT: The G3 Fixpack only really applies if you're playing BG2/ToB, though. I'm not sure if there's a fixpack for vanilla BG1.

Oh sure, bug fixes are always welcome  . But anything that alters the graphics, rules, classes, etc. is going to be left out. <_<

AnonymousHero wrote...

There isn't really such a thing as a "build" in BG, other than rolling stats and starting playing .

I'd recommend a short race(*) something like max STR, DEX, CON, WIS and 10 INT and whatever's left in CHA.

You know what I meant with "build".

OK, so max all the usual attributes (provided I get a lucky roll somewhere along the way) and leave the two usual dump stats in their usual place, got it.

AnonymousHero wrote...(*) Dwarves
are probably best in the long run due to saving throw bonuses, but
Halflings are sort of the "favored" thief race. I can't recall off-hand
if all the short races permit the C/T multiclass.

Aw crap, apparently only gnomes can multiclass C/T...

Well, that's disapointing, I really don't see myself playing a Gnome and enjoying it all that much. Maybe I'll grow used to the idea, but man... that's kind of annoying.

hannibal555 wrote...
If this is indeed your first playthrough, just enjoy the game and avoid too much spoilers or the temptation of learning of cheese methods to exploit the game ^^.

Oh, as far as spoilers go, someone's already taken care of that years ago. Some stupid magazine was describing how cool Baldur's Gate was and how incredible it was when [THAT] happened. They couldn't have just mentioned that there was cool moment in the story or something like that, no, they had to spell it out to the people that weren't supposed to know much about the game.

Personally, I never got to [THAT] part (I did get to enter Baldur's Gate once, though), I don't know when or how it happens, I just know that it does. So part of my enjoyment is sapped every time I think "the story has pretty much been ruined for me before I even started", so I have to focus a lot more on the gameplay.

And yeah, exploits are no fun either.

[Cowboy_christo]

Well ive always been more of a single class type of guy but my favorite multiclass that ive tried was cleric/mage. At any lvl you got something to do and near the end of BG2 and tob you can **** ppl up seriously. I remember at the beginning of TOB with my mage cleric halfelf i was dual wielding the rune hamner and Crom Faeyr and with elven chainmail or something that allowed me to cast with it. Tenser transformation and all the crazy buff in the divine made for quite a fighter + i was able to become totally invulnerable for a couple of rounds too thx to different arcane/divine spells and my armor which i cant recall the name.

You can also go cleric/illusionist gnome to get some more out of the arcane spells(thought i always hated gnome having 17 wisdom max but books solve that issue fairly well)

[Son of Imoen]

Lusitanum wrote...

Aw crap, apparently only gnomes can multiclass C/T...

Besides confessing my love for the F/M, I couldn't contribute much technical data about how the classes would work out in the long run (my experience is as yet limited to BG1 and SOA up to chapter 2); but I do know half-orcs can multiclass C/T.  A year ago I spend a lot of time hairsplitting if I should play a human C>T or a half-orc C/T. The half-orc can roll 19 STR, making for a whopping backstab.

*edit: but if you're a purist, the statement does hold true for BG 1. Only converted to the BG 2 enginge with Tutu or BG Trilogy can you start with a half-orc in Candlekeep.

Modifié par Son of Imoen, 26 juillet 2011 - 09:35 .