65 réponses à ce sujet

[Wishpig]

Ok, I have to say Legion of the Dead is ripped striat from Warhammer. Dwarf Slayers from the warhammer world are pretty damn unque and the staple and poster boys of the Warhammer World. No legion of the dead dwarfs don't go around bare chested wearing huge dyed mowhawks, but it isn't only appearance that makes a slayer, no, they have some of the deepest and most intresting lore in the warhammer world.

Legion of the Dead pretty much steals this lore...

Let me some up slayers. Dwarfs in the warhammer world are highly driven by honor, and it is very possible for a dwarf to dishonor himself to the point of no return... and pass this dishonor onto his family.

When this happens the dwarf declares himself dead. He considers himself dead, his family considerds him dead, and all other dwarfs consider him dead. Literally.

The dwarf then ventures out to find death in battle, and regain their honor. They are not beyond forming bands and fighting alongside each other or armies, as this would allow them to bring down more enemies before their deaths.

There is a dwarven slayer villiage/town with a slayerking, and they are allies of the humans and fight beside them as well as their kin in times of need.

Now heres the Legion of the Dead description taken strait off of the wiki

A great deal of importance is placed on the appearance of nobility
and justice amongst the dwarves. The actions of one family member can
often severely diminish an entire House's place in the social hierarchy
of the dwarves. Some disgraced dwarves will choose to go through a
ceremonial "death" to clear their names and the names of their
families. They walk out of Orzammar into the Deep Roads
to fight darkspawn for the rest of their lives as a member of the
Legion of the Dead. When one of their number dies, the Legion will bury
him or her within the stone, and celebrate the fact that the fallen has
finally found peace.
King Maric had the aid of Nalthur and his soldiers, members of the Legion of the Dead, in reclaiming the throne of Ferelden.
He was able to enlist their aid by assuring them that he would tell the
dwarves in Orzammar about their deeds, and bury them in the stone, not
in the dirt under the sky. The dwarves apparently hold great respect
for the word of the human kings, as this alone was enough to motivate
even the most tentative of the Legion to leave the familiar environment
of the Deep Roads for the surface.



(PS- although I didn't notice it so much in game, in the Dragon Age novel, many of the Legion of the Dead had covered themselves in frighting tatoos, just like slayers...)

WAY to similar!

[BluesMan1956]

*sigh*

[Wishpig]

BluesMan1956 wrote...

*sigh*

Nice response... I see your point.

[pokemaughan]

B'awww

[phordicus]

the idea of rock-hard, nigh-suicidal dwarves existed before warhammer. sorry, bud. WH and to a greater extent 40k have awesome lore, but they borrowed a ton from previous, uncredited sources, too.

[Wolff Laarcen]

A lot of things are ripped off of warhammer; its been around a long time. D&D has been around even longer, look how many ripoffs there are from that.

[Seifz]

And all of them ripped of Tolkien's elves and dwarves, dammit!

[Shannara13]

Suicidal groups who declare themselves dead existed long before Warhammer.

[Jackalen]

Well... it isnt the first time someone has taken something out of warhammer. Plus its a pretty neat lore =)



I can come up with another ripoff if that is okay with you.



This whole blight thing, Darkspawn raiding around until they find an archdemon to unite them all to destroy everything and whatnot. Its pretty much the greenskins if you ask me! Orcs even battles eachother until a warboss unites them under a single banner and goes out on a Waaagh, think about it. But to be honest i dont mind, everyone takes a little out of everything nowadays.

[Wishpig]

phordicus wrote...

the idea of rock-hard, nigh-suicidal dwarves existed before warhammer. sorry, bud. WH and to a greater extent 40k have awesome lore, but they borrowed a ton from previous, uncredited sources, too.

Ok... where? I can say a rich billonare, dressed as a bat, using his brain and gadets to fight crime along side a little boy dressed in red and wearing green undies existed before batman... but it wouldn't be true.

And besides even IF this was the case, Legion of the Dead stole from slayers in a much deeper fashion then rock-hard nigh-suicdle and dwarves... they stole the very drive and customs.

Modifié par Wishpig, 21 novembre 2009 - 02:46 .

[kelsjet]

Seifz wrote...

And all of them ripped of Tolkien's elves and dwarves, dammit!

And Tolkien ripped off centuries old Gaelic, Norse and Celtic mythologies.

I see a pattern emerging here (queue mystery music!)...

Modifié par kelsjet, 21 novembre 2009 - 02:47 .

[Vaeo]

Lulz. This topic is funny.

[Wishpig]

Hmmm, the examples being thrown out there are really big general concepts. Like modern fantasy takes from D&D and lotr. Lotr was inspired from celtic, norse lore. Even the good orc example Jackalan used is very frequent among fantasy worlds...

and I understand that...


But this is far more specific then any of the above examples. FAR more specific. I can't think of many franchises that have suicidal dwarf forces. I can't think of any that are as deep and interesting as Slayers, and I know that many warhammer fans consider slayer's pretty unique in mindset. I CAN think of a ton of franchises that draw from norse lore though...

Do you see what I'm saying? This is way to specific of a "inspiration" for me to shrug off and say, mah, most fantasy franchises are built off of other fantasy franchises.

Not saying my opinion can't be swayed though. I do think Slayers are somewhat inspired by norse berserks.

This isn't like saying Mass Effect is a rip off of Warhammer 40k because it features space marines with physcic powers... but it is like a new sci-fi franchise creating a bunch of space marines who are part viking, part wolf, and hit people with big rune axes... thats a very specific rip off.

Modifié par Wishpig, 21 novembre 2009 - 02:57 .

[deathwing200]

Guys, this game totally ripped off elves and dwarves from LOTR.

[slikster]

Everything with elves and dwarves ripped from LOTR... and?

[Wishpig]

deathwing200 wrote...

Guys, this game totally ripped off elves and dwarves from LOTR.

See this is what I mean, the above quote is like "OMG these marines are in space and using guns! They totally stole this from Aliens!"

My point is more akin to "OMG these space marines are part viking, part wolf, and hit people with rune axes! They totally stole this from warhammer!"

It's something you rarely see in fantasy, and is pretty much a carbon copy diffrenent only in appearance. Kinda like if you made a story about four goblins who found a magic ring created by a big bad **** in a giant metal suit that has the power to take over the world... and it makes people invisible when you put it on. THATS copying to specifically from lotr.


I can see the people on these forums are a little fed up with Dragon Age being accused of stealing... and pretty much post half ****ed resused responses because of such. I can understand that... but like I said, this is a very VERY specific rip-off.

Modifié par Wishpig, 21 novembre 2009 - 03:04 .

[Veracruz]

Just because Warhammer has some crazy dwarves doesn't mean other games can't have their own versions. Should we start complaining about Knights?



Surely there are amny inspirations in this game (damn, I even saw one scene that reminded me of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade!!!) but it's only ripoff if there is real reason for suing. And if you haven't seen any yet must be becuase it's not. Zergs vs Tyranids anyone? Just to mention one of those "Ripoff Wars" that plague internet.

[Lukertin]

I think the idea comes from one of the races in Star Trek (the warrior caste proclaims itself dead, and only by dying in combat do they live), the idea of which comes from the Greek Epic Poem The Illiad, that man, being mortal, is destined to die and only by fighting and dying with honor will later generations remember him, thus immortalizing the warrior in memory.

[Seifz]

If you actually get specific, there are many large, fundamental differences between the Slayers and the Legion of the Dead. Seriously.



Slayers have a certain appearance (orange bears, mohawks, blue tattoos). They travel the world, engaging in battle after battle until they die. Because of their psychology, they can never "fight to lose" and so they often end up winning. Many Slayers live for years before finally meeting their end, and the best of them live out their typical life expectancy. Slayers form bands, and sometimes larger groups. Slayers are ranked based on which monsters they've killed (e.g. Dragon Slayer).



The Legion of the Dead might exist for the same purpose (restoring honor to one who has lost it), but that's where the similarities end. They don't have the same dress code, they don't travel the world, they almost never live for years (much less their normal life expectancy), they don't have ranks, and they fight only one type of monster: Darkspawn.



The large concept of a Dwarf who has lost his honor and tried to redeem himself or his family through combat is not original to Warhammer. The smaller details that make Slayers Slayers are nothing like the details that make the Legion of the Dead who they are. I don't see the problem, here.

[Wishpig]

N/m some great responses!

Modifié par Wishpig, 21 novembre 2009 - 03:10 .

[Wishpig]

Seifz wrote...

If you actually get specific, there are many large, fundamental differences between the Slayers and the Legion of the Dead. Seriously.

Slayers have a certain appearance (orange bears, mohawks, blue tattoos). They travel the world, engaging in battle after battle until they die. Because of their psychology, they can never "fight to lose" and so they often end up winning. Many Slayers live for years before finally meeting their end, and the best of them live out their typical life expectancy. Slayers form bands, and sometimes larger groups. Slayers are ranked based on which monsters they've killed (e.g. Dragon Slayer).

The Legion of the Dead might exist for the same purpose (restoring honor to one who has lost it), but that's where the similarities end. They don't have the same dress code, they don't travel the world, they almost never live for years (much less their normal life expectancy), they don't have ranks, and they fight only one type of monster: Darkspawn.

The large concept of a Dwarf who has lost his honor and tried to redeem himself or his family through combat is not original to Warhammer. The smaller details that make Slayers Slayers are nothing like the details that make the Legion of the Dead who they are. I don't see the problem, here.

I like this response! And your certainly swayed me opinion! I take it back... mostley.

[aberdash]

Yes, and the Templars are a rip off of the Inquisition and the Grey Wardens are a rip off of the Grey Knights.

[Raxxman]

Warhammer stole a lot from contempory fiction



Black Orcs are a way of describing Tolkiens uruk hai, complete with superior armour.



The High elves are based of the men of Melniborne, complete with leader with cursed sword, and guarded by sleeping dragons. heck the whole order vs chaos is taken from that, even the symbol of chaos is more or less lifted straight from Moorcocks work.



I thought the legion armour reminded me of the stone summit dwarfs from Guild Wars but looking again the similarities aren't at all close. That said it does seem familiar.

[Wishpig]

aberdash wrote...

Yes, and the Templars are a rip off of the Inquisition and the Grey Wardens are a rip off of the Grey Knights.

Yeah... except those are terrible examples of two things that are hardly alike... their not even in the same genre.

Raxxman wrote...

Warhammer stole a lot from contempory fiction

Black Orcs are a way of describing Tolkiens uruk hai, complete with superior armour.

The
High elves are based of the men of Melniborne, complete with leader
with cursed sword, and guarded by sleeping dragons. heck the whole
order vs chaos is taken from that, even the symbol of chaos is more or
less lifted straight from Moorcocks work.

I thought the legion
armour reminded me of the stone summit dwarfs from Guild Wars but
looking again the similarities aren't at all close. That said it does
seem familiar.

Good example with the Black Orcs, although the whole chaos dwarf aspect really adds a twist that seperates then from the uruk hai in terms of lore and place in the world.

The high elves though is a perfect comparison.

Stone Summit dwarfs are KINDA similar I guess... but like you said, the more you look at it, the more their not. That had less to do with honor and more to do with religion. Plus it involved almost every single dwarf.

Modifié par Wishpig, 21 novembre 2009 - 03:23 .

[aberdash]

Wishpig wrote...

Yeah... except those are terrible examples of two things that are hardly alike... their not even in the same genre.

The Inqustion act as a secret police and hunt daemonhosts(abominations?). Grey Knights are specialized warriors that fight daemons(replace daemons with darkspawn).

Modifié par aberdash, 21 novembre 2009 - 03:26 .