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New CVG Article on ME3 doesn't give me much confidence.


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#1
Terror_K

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http://www.computera...ure-y-than-me2/

Seriously... as an RPG fan, are these comments from David Silverman of marketing supposed to be encouraging? The more he says, the more he seems to make me more skeptical and worry about ME3's overall direction and focus, as well as BioWare as a whole:

CVG article says...

"This is definitely the best chance we have in the series to really break out and go truly blockbuster," BioWare marketing boss David Silverman told CVG.


So ME3 is even more of a cheap modern Hollywood style action flick than ME2 was then?

"It's a natural entry point for new players: giant alien race launches all-out war, you have to rally the forces of the universe to counter and see if you can take them down. That's pretty clear. You don't need to be like: 'Well, what about when I had this love affair?' It's like, who cares? It's all out war!"


I care for one. I understand that this is the big Reaper battle, but that doesn't mean everything has to be so overtly focused on "Action! Action! Action!" with no real substance.

"We're hoping for a big hit. It's the best game we've ever made at BioWare Edmonton.


Yeah... I heard the same line prior to ME2 coming out. And even something similar regarding DA2. Both were very far from BioWare's "best game ever!"

"Absolutely. Hands down. We've done a lot of research about what people liked about Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and other games too - what they like about Gears Of War, Assassin's Creed, Halo, Call Of Duty and lots of RPG games too.


So... you're looking far more at some of the most trite, overrated and simple games from recent history aimed at appealing to the lowest common denominator as the main focus for making ME3. I notice that he couldn't even name a single RPG that was looked at for influence... just four big mainstream hitters, three of which are mindless, shallow tripe aimed squarely at the shooter crowd.

As an RPG fan how am I supposed to be confident in statements like that? How am I supposed to believe BioWare cares about us when they name only mainstream action titles for influence but can't even drop the name of one RPG? I thought ME3 was supposed to be becoming less "dudebro" and not more?

"We've looked at all these games to see what's resonating and what's not. On the one hand, we don't want to go too far down the RPG rabbit hole where Shepard starts rolling dice, but on the other hand we don't want to ignore that coolness - where people can customise parts of their character and making them feel that it's them in the adventure. We capitalise on that in spades in ME3."


Oh, so only the "cool" RPG factors stay. They have to be the customisation, but nothing that adds actual depth or numbers, because numbers are scary.

Oh, and before people start going on about "people at these forums always complaining" as if everybody else loves the direction ME2 took and the sound of things for ME3, here are some comments from CVG itself posted by users about the article:

sleazeboy wrote...

I'm getting more concerned with where Bioware are taking this series with each article i read.

The final part of a trilogy is the perfect entry point? seems more like abandoning the principles and purchasers that made the series successful for a belated cash-grab.

The RPG elements of Gears, Creed, Halo and CoD, that must have took a lot of research.

I'm not against the improvement of the action and exploration parts of ME, and in some ways preferred the way ME2 handled role-playing, using choice and reactions rather than old-school rpg methods, but i worry that it's getting dumbed down to much.


The_KFD_Case wrote...

Impressive. Within the space of the first two sentences in this article, BioWare has already contradicted itself. If ME3 is any more "action-adventure-y" than its predecessor ME2, then I hold out little hope of it having any of the RPG backbone that ME1 had. As Sleazeboy expressed, I too grow increasingly uneasy for the prospects of ME3 with each new BioWare announcement.


Jensonjet wrote...

Too late. Bioware should have thought a little more carefully before they ripped the heart out of Mass Effect 2. Absolutely loved the first, completely hated the sequel.

There's definately a pattern with the first version of games tending to be far superior than their sequels, not so much in racing and sport games, but definately in games with guns! Normally you might expect a small drop in quality, but the changes developers feel they need to make to improve their games is proving to be quite the opposite, more and more, these days.

Anyway, I'm no fool. If a franchise or series drops to the point where I hate the game, then I'm out, for good. All the promises in the world and all the positive marketing the gaming industry can muster will fall on deaf ears... after all, the whole industry claims it's next game is amazing, yet few are.

I've already decided to be wiser from now on so I'll happily buy into new franchises, but I'm too aware of this current gaming industry trend, and have been bitten too many times, so I'll be avoiding sequels to shooters. The drop in quality is becoming too great now.


kilatomato wrote...

After ME2 and the amount of bad marketing Bioware puts out these days Im taking a new approach to ME3.

No matter how my small good things Ive heard about this game that can slightly improve my outlook, I always know there are a dozen more filled with bulls**t like the quotes from this one.

That way, Im taking my experiences from ME2, and Im going into the game assuming its the same retarded shooter fan oriented dumbed down POS that ME2 was, and that its "consequences for choices" are a load of crap.

If the amount of ****** marketing, greedy casual fan grabbing and basically betrayals of everything this series stood for when it started build up too much, I might even go so far as only rent, or even skip the game altogether.

One thing for sure is the new "certified ****** friendly, give us ur monies shooter fans" Bioware company is not one Ill be supporting like I did in the past.

Good or horrifically dumbed down and bad, I get the impression ME3 will be my last Bioware game.

Oh yeah, and I also care about the relationships. It might not have been the case so much in ME2, but it certainly was in ME1, in that those "stupid romances" are one of the few genuine ways to define your character. Bioware, for something people insisit is an RPG, has taken to much of the "Shepard character" to themselves, and one of the only ways to express the character yourself is by interacting with other characters, particularly romances.

So yeah, I care.


Modifié par Terror_K, 22 juillet 2011 - 08:49 .


#2
Adanu

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Wow.... this is the PR boss for Bioware? Do they expect people to take him seriously when he goes who cares anout romances? Bioware, you need to fire this person and put in someone who actually understands the series. I'm adopting a heavy wait and see response for ME3 with this guy at the helm.

The more time goes on, the more it looks like you're going the way of Westwood.

#3
Someone With Mass

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I just love how people pretend that ME1 had some really deep RPG mechanics.

#4
Kasai666

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This made my heart break into tiny little pieces. I really hope that they pull a 180 and make it LESS actiony and MORE like an rpg, unlike ME2 was.

#5
Savber100

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Someone should fire Dav-... NO BAD SAVBER! I mustn't be mean.

But seriously whenever he talks, I start to facepalm myself.

But let me offer a more balanced perspective here:

The dude is head of marketing for Bioware/EA. He's going to have to say a lot of crap to get the make the game sell beyond the core RPG crowd.

This is the same guy who talks about the "AWESOME BUTTON" for DA2 so I really don't think we should see what this guys say as reflection of the actual position of the ME team.

Aw crap... I got bile in my mouth.

I just can't find a reasonable way to say this. Seriously, Silverman should just.. ARGH

#6
Captain_Obvious_au

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Well let's not jump the gun there Terror. Generally I agree with you, but I'd say you're over-reacting a bit here. What's so bad about looking at the best bits of other games? ME is a shooter/RPG hybrid after all, so I can't see that as being a bad thing. Shooters like GRAW actually have elements of customisation in them that ME is completely lacking.

As for the 'cool' RPG factors, I agree with the PR boss. For example - whilst I don't like all of the changes from ME --> ME2, cleaning up the inventory was a good move. Did they go too far and over-simplify it? Absolutely. But it's better than Shepard killing a bunch of mercs and then scavenging their bodies looking for cool guns and credits. Just because something is a staple RPG feature doesn't mean it's always a good idea.

#7
Blooddrunk1004

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"Absolutely. Hands down. We've done a lot of research about what people liked about Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and other games too - what they like about Gears Of War, Assassin's Creed, Halo, Call Of Duty and lots of RPG games too"

More RPG depth?
Just by bringing up Gears, COD and Halo i want too punch someone in the face.
Its sad how they are trying to impeal to FPS crowd instead of RPG crowd.

Modifié par Blooddrunk1004, 22 juillet 2011 - 09:03 .


#8
Shockwave81

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My main concerns with ME2 were the 'compartmentalised' crew, the main storyline taking a back seat to loyalty missions, and the lack of a decent main villain.

I honestly don't believe that added RPG 'goodness' would have made much difference to the above - in fact it probably would have put me off the game completely. I was disillusioned enough without nauseating stat manipulation and customisation so deep that I wouldn't be able to see the sun above me.

Modifié par Shockwave81, 22 juillet 2011 - 09:06 .


#9
Massadonious1

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Oh look, it's this thread again.

And no, numbers aren't "scary", unless you're playing an MMO, or something else where they actually matter, like anything with the AD&D ruleset, they're stupid, useless and redundant. And I'm beginning to think that the whole "dumbed down" argument can be flip flopped, if your grand idea of "customization" is constantly acquiring items with bigger stats and no other dicernable differences between them until you've run out of items.

It's like trading something shiny, for something more shiny. If you want to "roleplay" an ape, then you're doing a good job.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 22 juillet 2011 - 09:04 .


#10
Phaedon

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This is David Silverman wearing a Wrex suit and shouting "I AM KROGAN", your argument is invalid.

Terror_K wrote...
So ME3 is even more of a cheap modern Hollywood style action flick than ME2 was then?

And this is why I won't waste any time on a supposedly constructive reply, in another of these threads.


You either have no idea how marketing works or how much input Silverman has into the game, or you are practically asking for a flamewar.

Let's start talking about what defines a true RPG and how ME1 was an awesome RPG with really deep mechanics, everyone, this is BSN after all.

Modifié par Phaedon, 22 juillet 2011 - 09:05 .


#11
Savber100

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Massadonious1 wrote...

Oh look, it's this thread again.

And no, numbers aren't "scary", unless you're playing an MMO, or something else where they actually matter, like anything with the AD&D ruleset, they're stupid, useless and redundant. And I'm beginning to think that the whole "dumbed down" argument can be flip flopped, if your grand idea of "customization" is constantly acquiring items with bigger stats on them until you've run out of items.

It's like trading something shiny, for something more shiny.


Naw... this isn't the is "ME a RPG?" thread.

It's more of a "Why the hell does Bioware allow this guy to be head of marketing?"

Bioware's marketing just suck. Remember the "this is the new ****" campaign for DA:O? <_<

Modifié par Savber100, 22 juillet 2011 - 09:05 .


#12
Gibb_Shepard

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Bioware's advertising team are ****ing ruthless. They speak so much godamn hyperbole it hurts my brain.

They're pretty much the epitome of stereotypical PR speak. Haven't seen a humble word come out their mouth.

#13
Savber100

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Phaedon wrote...

Terror_K wrote...
So ME3 is even more of a cheap modern Hollywood style action flick than ME2 was then?

And this is why I won't waste any time on a supposedly constructive reply, in another of these threads.


You either have no idea how marketing works or how much input Silverman has into the game, or you are practically asking for a flamewar.

Let's start talking about what defines a true RPG and how ME1 was an awesome RPG with really deep mechanics, everyone, this is BSN after all.


Normally, I disagree with Terror_K on his (or her) position on RPGs but I have to admit that I can't blame him (or her) about this interview. Seriously, this guy does not inspire confidence that Bioware is planning to enrich the RPG elements in ME3. :?

Is it really that hard to say that action is good and great but our RPG elements are incredible cool too! He's the MARKETING guy. Why not try to make RPGs look cool? I'm sure he can spin something up rather than saying that ME3 is going to be influenced by COD or Halo.

Modifié par Savber100, 22 juillet 2011 - 09:10 .


#14
Massadonious1

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Savber100 wrote...

Naw... this isn't the is "ME a RPG?" thread.

It's more of a "Why the hell does Bioware allow this guy to be head of marketing?"

Bioware's marketing just suck. Remember the "this is the new ****" campaign for DA:O? <_<


Well, someone tell the OP, then. I wouldn't of replied as such if he didn't make such an argument in the first place.

And Silverman is just an marketing tool. I never take anything he has to say seriously. I'd rather listen to my mailman talk about video games.

Modifié par Massadonious1, 22 juillet 2011 - 09:46 .


#15
CroGamer002

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What Phaedon said.

#16
Xarathox

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For **** sake.

Where's my facepalm button...<_<

#17
Lumikki

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mm.. nothing new for me here, same old same, hardcore RPG fans expressing they opinion again.
Action RPG with TPS combat in WAR story, should not have action. *wink*
Marketing is about get new customers, not please old customer base.
Old customer base allready knows direction where ME3 is going.

There absolute zero need to market how deep RPG elements ME3 has, because IT DOES NOT SELL.

Modifié par Lumikki, 22 juillet 2011 - 09:31 .


#18
Savber100

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Massadonious1 wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

Massadonious1 wrote...

Oh look, it's this thread again.

And no, numbers aren't "scary", unless you're playing an MMO, or something else where they actually matter, like anything with the AD&D ruleset, they're stupid, useless and redundant. And I'm beginning to think that the whole "dumbed down" argument can be flip flopped, if your grand idea of "customization" is constantly acquiring items with bigger stats on them until you've run out of items.

It's like trading something shiny, for something more shiny.


Naw... this isn't the is "ME a RPG?" thread.

It's more of a "Why the hell does Bioware allow this guy to be head of marketing?"

Bioware's marketing just suck. Remember the "this is the new ****" campaign for DA:O? <_<


Well, someone tell the OP, then. I wouldn't of replied as such if he didn't make such an argument in the first place.

And Silverman is just an marketing tool. I never take anything he has to say seriously. I'd rather listen to mailman talk about video games.



Ah but here's the issue...

Before DA2 was released, Silverman basically yakked about the same 'ol bull****. Back in the DA base, we all dismissed it as marketing speak. After release, no one was saying that anymore. This guy might be exaggerating but everything he says has a kernel of truth and that's what disturbs me. :P

I'll give Mr. Silverman this... He's passionate in what he does but he's just giving the wrong impression to many core Bioware fans. He needs to try harder in balancing out his responses.

Modifié par Savber100, 22 juillet 2011 - 09:15 .


#19
Someone With Mass

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Squad and weapon customization is the only thing I thought was really missing in ME2, and they seem to implement that in some way, so I'm happy.

As for you who are whining about the action. Look up the story. It's about some elite soldier that's trying to stop an ancient machine race from destroying everything in the galaxy. Of course there will be action. That's pretty much the point.

Complaining about ME3 containing too much action when it's trying to tell a war story is just stupid.

#20
Someone With Mass

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Phaedon wrote...
Let's start talking about what defines a true RPG and how ME1 was an awesome RPG with really deep mechanics, everyone, this is BSN after all.


Yeah. Let's. <_<

#21
Bogsnot1

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What Mesina2 said.

#22
Phaedon

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Savber100 wrote...
Normally, I disagree with Terror_K on his (or her) position on RPGs but I have to admit that I can't blame him (or her) about this interview. Seriously, this guy does not inspire confidence that Bioware is planning to enrich the RPG elements. :?

If you have a problem with Silverman take it to his Twitter. People can demand as much button not-awesome as they want, but that is one of the guys who managed to get ME3 to be recognized as the retail game with the most potential of E3 2011 by an independent research team, and gathered more IGN page views than any other game.

This has nothing to do with Marketing and it's clear since the very title and the OP, this is another BSN whinefest. What Silverman thinks about the product has nothing to do with the developers. Everyone knows what Silverman's position is.

As long as he is not contributing to the misinformation of the consumer, you will just have to deal with his techniques which are apparently succesful, and not use it to throw around remarks about ME2, other games, as well as "doubting for ME3".

Modifié par Phaedon, 22 juillet 2011 - 09:14 .


#23
Jebel Krong

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@ terror_k: it's silverman, what did you expect: einsteinian analysis? he just uses the maximum marketing-speak to sell the game as widely as possible.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 22 juillet 2011 - 09:17 .


#24
Blooddrunk1004

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www.youtube.com/watch

i see Silverman is still advertising the same like he did in DA2.

Modifié par Blooddrunk1004, 22 juillet 2011 - 09:16 .


#25
roflchoppaz

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I thought Silverman was okay, just a bit silly.

Now?
Complete retard.

Marketing - you're doing it wrong.