370 réponses à ce sujet

[WidowMaker9394]

I thought they fired that guy after DA2.

Well, I would've if I were them.

[Blarty]

sympathy4saren wrote...


I agree wholeheartedly with this assessment.

I will say though, I am an Assassin's Creed fan and I love how they are putting more and more rpg elements in the game each game. In Revelations, I hear you can craft your own bombs and there are over 200 didn't ones you can make. Just wish that they didnt release a new game every year now....gonna wait til next summer to play Revelations.

As a side, and slightly off-topic comment, if BW were to put multiplayer in, I'd definitely prefer the multiplayer route that Ubisoft took with AC:Brotherhood, and think about how it fits into the games ethos, than try to fit multiplayer into the ethos of COD/Halo

[Candidate 88766]

Terror_K wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Oh, so you don't want Bioware to be successful? How nice.

BioWare managed to be successful in the past without needing to resort to such tactics and needing to water down their games so much. The audience is there for it, DAO proved this, and its a fallacy to think that they won't succeed and still make money if they don't "branch out" etc. The problem is they're getting greedy and want to have their cake and eat it too.

It's not that I don't want BioWare to succeed; it's that I don't want them to be just like all the other developers these days: pushing out the same brown/grey mush of action-oriented story-driven titles with light RPG elements for the masses as some cold formula for the "perfect game" rather than anything deep and meaningful.

They've never had a truly mainstream hit. Brand awareness of ME is very high - even forums outside BSN constantly talk about ME. The Escapist seems to talk about nothing else. ME3 is their chance to have a genuine hit, so they're going to spend time talking about it in a way that attracts as many people as possible. The current fans, no matter how they feel about RPG stuff, chances are they're gonna buy it for the story. That is really what ME is good at.

ME2's monumental critical success begs to differ.

Yet ME2's success apparently pales to Dragon Age: Origins, at least as far as sales and popularity goes (even if ME2 reviewed better).

If sales and popularity are what you're basing them on, then MW2 or Black Ops are the greatest games ever. Opinion is what matters, and critical opinion is that ME2 is Bioware's best game so far. Your own personal opinion may differ, but the consensus is that ME2 is their best so far.

Because CoD is the single most successful game franchise ever created, one of the most successful entertainment franchies ever, it must be tripe. Its popularity can't possibly be because it is good at what it does. Get off the CoD-bashing bandwagon. Its not cool anymore. Its not hipster. Its a stale argument and one that severely weakens the genuine points you do have in your argument. There are genuine points - this is not how Bioware should be marketing ME3, I agree with you there. But hating on popular games simply because they are popular seriously detracts from any valid points you're trying to make.

I've played almost all the CoD's. I still own the original, CoD3 and the first Modern Warfare. The rest are just generic rubbish pumped out with no real innovation every year. It's the most low-brow, simple, mainstream, overrated and derivative game series. Even more than Gears of War. It's the "Wrasslin'" of games. It exemplefies "lowest common denominator" and "herp derp"

Now before somebody jumps on me, I'm not saying anybody and everybody who plays CoD is like that, but that doesn't change what the game is or what it largely represents. I work in a game store and I see the people who are really into these games (and I mean REALLY into them). I was there at the Black Ops midnight launch last year. Trust me... most of these people weren't at the deep end of the gene pool.

Then again, I do live in a country where most of the population treat rugby like a religion and look and act like shaved gorillas, so maybe I'm biased as a whole.

Your opinion. If CoD was as bad as you're making out then it would not be this popular. People wouldn't shell out £50 every year if they didn't think it was worth it, particularly in these times. Having said that, some of the stuff I heard through my headset when I still played CoD was disgraceful.

On a different note, I'm guessing you're from New Zealand or South Africa? They probably have the largest rugby fanbases. I'm only asking out of curiousity.

You'd love Black Ops. That has far more numbers and stats than most RPGs. Or try some of the old Football Managers - they're pretty much comprised entirely of numbers. Right up your street.

Black Ops I haven't tried. Don't want to either. I'm done with CoD now. I have Football Manager 2010 and enjoy that a fair it though.

I came across a bit dickish there, sorry about that. If I'm being honest, I'm done with CoD as well. Too many years in a row of buying some kind of online shooter at Christmas. At least this year I've got Arkham City, Skyrim and Deus Ex to tide me over until ME3. 

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 22 juillet 2011 - 02:44 .

[Il Divo]

InfiniteCuts wrote...

Thank you!  Deux Ex and ME3 are going head-to-head as far as I'm concerned... and the more I see from that game the less confident I am about ME3 being able to top it in terms of Action-RPG gameplay.  These are the guys (Eidos Montreal) BioWare needs to be looking at competitively and as inspiration... not Epic or Treyarch.

Admittedly, I'm feeling the same at the moment, although this could be due to having seen Deus Ex's director trailer, multiple gameplay videos, and being right around the corner from release. (Off-topic: very excited for August 23rd).

Deus Ex always had an intriguing design philosophy. I wouldn't expect Bioware to completely change their philosophy here (Mass Effect 1 was not even remotely similar to Deus Ex's approach), but if they're looking for an effective method of combining real-time shooting with RPG mechanics, I can't think of a better game. They could have even cited Half-Life or Bioshock and that would have been more acceptable.

[Il Divo]

SynheKatze wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

EJ107 wrote...


"We've done a lot of research about what people liked about Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and other games too - what they like about Gears Of War, Assassin's Creed, Halo, Call Of Duty "

This admittedly would be the only area which I find odd (assuming I were taking this ass seriously). I love Assassin's Creed, but how much could Bioware potentially learn from the series, for a tps/rpg hybrid? Citing Deus Ex  would be alot more appropriate, given the style of game they are making.

For the stealth parts maybe? They've been going on and on about how we can complete levels with some discretion. Too bad it hasn't been seen yet q.q

I suppose. I just don't see how they're going to turn it into a full-fledged aspect of gameplay. ME2's Arrival dlc was a fun little experiment in what stealth would be like in ME. But an experiment it remains. Even there, I think Bioware can't rely on Assassin's Creed/Hitman series, which are social-based stealth games. I don't think we'll be wading through crowds in ME. If anything, it would be closer to Splinter Cell or (once again) Deus Ex.

Edit: Thinking about, it's possible that the Assassin's Creed hidden blade was an early inspiration for ME's new omniblade tool. Still, it seems more like an aesthetic inspiration than a design one.

Modifié par Il Divo, 22 juillet 2011 - 02:51 .

[suprhomre]

Finally BIOWARE is going in the right direction. I actually don't care for romances it's just too silly that people take it too serious. I have a real life with real people to go back to that's what's matter. When I play games I just want to shoot, hit and crack codes. It's wonderful to hear that's exactly want I get in ME3. I love Assassin creed and Witcher 2 and all other kind of action rpg game and most of them don't have a deep romance in it, but a great graphic and gameplay and that's what made them fun to play. ME3 let's bring it on, March 6 can't come any sooner.

Modifié par suprhomre, 22 juillet 2011 - 02:56 .

[Il Divo]

suprhomre wrote...

Finally BIOWARE is going in the right direction. I actually don't care for romances it's just silly that people take too serious. I have a real life with real people to back to that's what's matter. When I play games I just want to shoot, hit and crack codes. It's wonderful to hear that's exactly want I get in ME3. I love Assassin creed and Witcher 2 and all other kind of action rpg game and most of them don't have a deep romance in it but a great graphic and gameplay and that's what made them fun to play. ME3 let's bring it on, March 6 can't come any sooner.

I'm afraid that I must 100% disagree with you. It's a fact that March 6th would be coming much sooner if it were coming tomorrow, as opposed to being many months away as it is at this particular moment. I demand that you edit your post to take this into account.

Modifié par Il Divo, 22 juillet 2011 - 02:53 .

[Ace of Dawn]

Lumikki wrote...

InfiniteCuts wrote...

I'm not sure what you're getting at here... but I seem to recall ME2 getting a lot of flack from "hardcore classic RPG fans" (and I am not part of that group).  I know the reasons why BioWare might think playing up the "actiony" parts of ME3 will bring in new customers... but if there's this sense of disappointment that keeps rearing its head within your core base, who cares what Johnny-come-lately thinks about ME3 action?

Yep, but that's the point.

It's not about sell us ME3 to make us happy, it's about getting new customers. We don't need to know what kind of game ME3 will be, because we know it allready, but there is still a lot of players who to sell ME serie idea. Core base aren't teared, there are just people who don't like ME series direction, because they are WRONG customer types for ME serie. So, pleasing them in MARKETING does do anyone any good, because it doens't change what ME3 will be.

Point been no point to sell cat for people who likes only dogs.

Exactly. He's marketing. His job is based on getting more people to buy it. I am not going to ask someone to buy a game when they already made up their mind on it. That's a waste of time and effort. I am going to go after the people that are still unsure or may not even know about it. That's a whole mess of people that can easily be swayed.

The OP already made up his mind. No point in going any farther with that.

PiercedMonk wrote...

Could someone please explain to me
-- as if to a child as I feel that will be the only way I'll understand
-- what it is about piddling around with numbers that is so integral to
playing a role.

Nothing really. The term "Role-Playing Game" is such a vague and abstract term that everyone has different definitions about it (if you look at that "bioware is forgetting rpg mechanics thread, there is literally about 100 pages devoted to people bickering over what an RPG is). For many, if numbers are not involved, it's not an RPG. For others it's inventory, or story, or character freedom, or choice, or customisation, or items, or dice, or pens and papers. The idea is vague and Mass Effect is hybrid, meaning the RPG fans shout "Ruined Forever" because it's not *their* RPG, even though Mass Effect has never really been that.

[Terror_K]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

If sales and popularity are what you're basing them on, then MW2 or Black Ops are the greatest games ever. Opinion is what matters, and critical opinion is that ME2 is Bioware's best game so far. Your own personal opinion may differ, but the consensus is that ME2 is their best so far.

And what does that tell me: that if Mass Effect is going to be "the best" it has to be massively popular, and thus has to be another CoD, Halo, Gears, etc.

No thanks. Again, I got into the Mass Effect series because it wasn't these things. That, and because it was a great homage to classic sci-fi.

Your opinion. If CoD was as bad as you're making out then it would not be this popular. People wouldn't shell out £50 every year if they didn't think it was worth it, particularly in these times. Having said that, some of the stuff I heard through my headset when I still played CoD was disgraceful.

There's a difference between bad and generic. CoD isn't technically bad, but its generic, and rather simple when it comes down to it. That's not what Mass Effect should be, IMO.

On a different note, I'm guessing you're from New Zealand or South Africa? They probably have the largest rugby fanbases. I'm only asking out of curiousity.

The former, yes.

I came across a bit dickish there, sorry about that. If I'm being honest, I'm done with CoD as well. Too many years in a row of buying some kind of online shooter at Christmas. At least this year I've got Arkham City, Skyrim and Deus Ex to tide me over until ME3. 

I was looking forward to Arkham City... until Rocksteady decided to saddle it with GfWL again and then said they weren't releasing the PC CE in Australia/NZ for no real reason. On top of that now BioWare have said SWTOR is going to be delayed outside of the States and Europe, making me seriously reconsider that one too. One of the only times an MMO looked interesting and I wanted to get in on Day 1 to avoid all the catching-up nonsense, and then they pull this crap. In this day and age.

Deus Ex: HR is looking decent though, and I too am looking at Skyrim with interest.

[PiercedMonk]

Il Divo wrote...

EJ107 wrote...


"We've done a lot of research about what people liked about Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and other games too - what they like about Gears Of War, Assassin's Creed, Halo, Call Of Duty "

This admittedly would be the only area which I find odd (assuming I were taking this ass seriously). I love Assassin's Creed, but how much could Bioware potentially learn from the series, for a tps/rpg hybrid?

The Doctors (in unison): Hey there, Dave, what ya playing? Doesn't look like one of our games....
Dave Silverman: It's 'Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood'. It's, uh, I'm playing it as research.
The Doctors: That sounds reasonable. What has your research revealed?
Dave Silverman: Well, uhm, stabbing people is pretty awesome.
The Doctors: Interesting. Allow us to call Casey Hudson on our mobile telephone.
Casey Hudson (on phone): Ahoy-hoy.
The Doctors: Casey, stabbing people is apparently "awesome." Commander Shepard should stab people in the next 'Mass Effect'. See to it.
Casey Hudson (on phone): Sure...okay. That'll push back the release date though. Probably to like March or something.
The Doctors: We believe we said that you are to see to it that there is the stabbing of people in the next 'Mass Effect', Casey. You will do what needs to be done.
Casey Hudson (on phone): You're the bosses.
The Doctors: Good.... Good.

[Ultai]

Silverman style marketing. Nothing new here.

[Veex]

Il Divo wrote...

I suppose. I just don't see how they're going to turn it into a full-fledged aspect of gameplay. ME2's Arrival dlc was a fun little experiment in what stealth would be like in ME. But an experiment it remains. Even there, I think Bioware can't rely on Assassin's Creed/Hitman series, which are social-based stealth games. I don't think we'll be wading through crowds in ME. If anything, it would be closer to Splinter Cell or (once again) Deus Ex.

Edit: Thinking about, it's possible that the Assassin's Creed hidden blade was an early inspiration for ME's new omniblade tool. Still, it seems more like an aesthetic inspiration than a design one.

I'll agree, from a combat perspective ME will remain a cover shooter at its core. It would be too far a divergence to expect any meaningful stealth gameplay outside of a mission or two. On the omni-blade comment, I think they likely just wanted to vary the function of melee attacks outside of the forearm smash. It seems like an attempt to make CQC a little more viable for classes other than the Vanguard.

[ianmcdonald]

Blooddrunk1004 wrote...

"Absolutely. Hands down. We've done a lot of research about what people liked about Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and other games too - what they like about Gears Of War, Assassin's Creed, Halo, Call Of Duty and lots of RPG games too"

More RPG depth?
Just by bringing up Gears, COD and Halo i want too punch someone in the face.
Its sad how they are trying to impeal to FPS crowd instead of RPG crowd.

How old are you?

[xentar]

Do the words "PR ****storm" mean anything here?

[suprhomre]

Il Divo wrote...

suprhomre wrote...

Finally BIOWARE is going in the right direction. I actually don't care for romances it's just silly that people take too serious. I have a real life with real people to back to that's what's matter. When I play games I just want to shoot, hit and crack codes. It's wonderful to hear that's exactly want I get in ME3. I love Assassin creed and Witcher 2 and all other kind of action rpg game and most of them don't have a deep romance in it but a great graphic and gameplay and that's what made them fun to play. ME3 let's bring it on, March 6 can't come any sooner.

I'm afraid that I must 100% disagree with you. It's a fact that March 6th would be coming much sooner if it were coming tomorrow, as opposed to being many months away as it is at this particular moment. I demand that you edit your post to take this into account.

They can take all the time they want. My point is, which might not really be that clear is that the waiting is killing me. ME is my game of passion, moreover the story is so fascinating. I have so many questions which I hope will be cleared. That's all. 

[Chewin]

And I thought Mr. Silverman was cool.

[The Spamming Troll]

im pretty sure im going to be disappointed with ME3 in the same exact way i was with ME2. i really have no doubts about that.

ive played maybe 6 hours of oblivion, and im much more excited for skyrim then ME3. 2 years ago, id never ever ever have thought id be saying that.

i kindof get the feeling bioware doesnt understand why i played ME1. they only want to know how to get more people to play ME3.

[Candidate 88766]

Terror_K wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

If sales and popularity are what you're basing them on, then MW2 or Black Ops are the greatest games ever. Opinion is what matters, and critical opinion is that ME2 is Bioware's best game so far. Your own personal opinion may differ, but the consensus is that ME2 is their best so far.

And what does that tell me: that if Mass Effect is going to be "the best" it has to be massively popular, and thus has to be another CoD, Halo, Gears, etc.

No thanks. Again, I got into the Mass Effect series because it wasn't these things. That, and because it was a great homage to classic sci-fi.

I'm confusing myself here a little. What I'm saying is that I think critical success matters more than sales and popularity when it comes to deciding whether a game is good (although obviously more sales is better for Bioware).

The homages to sci-fi were the reason I went for it too. I don't really care whether the gameplay focuses on action or traditional RPG stuff. The story is why I'm here, a story inspired by the wonderful, slightly over-the-top sci-fi classics like Star Wars and Bladerunner.

Your opinion. If CoD was as bad as you're making out then it would not be this popular. People wouldn't shell out £50 every year if they didn't think it was worth it, particularly in these times. Having said that, some of the stuff I heard through my headset when I still played CoD was disgraceful.

There's a difference between bad and generic. CoD isn't technically bad, but its generic, and rather simple when it comes down to it. That's not what Mass Effect should be, IMO.

Okay, I'll agree there. MW1 wasn't generic, but the yearly releases and numerous copy-cats have made it generic. They're good games, but I admit they're essentially the same good game as MW1. Even new things like Battlefield 3, which given the graphics and history of DICE should be amazing, are generic. I'm very sick of the whole 'modern' and 'realistic' thing games are going for atm. They're often good games, but the setting is boring. And I don't ME3 could ever be boring or generic given the artisic direction of the previous 2 games. 

On a different note, I'm guessing you're from New Zealand or South Africa? They probably have the largest rugby fanbases. I'm only asking out of curiousity.

The former, yes.

Always wanted to go on holiday to New Zealand, but it is literally on the exact opposite side of the world <_<

I came across a bit dickish there, sorry about that. If I'm being honest, I'm done with CoD as well. Too many years in a row of buying some kind of online shooter at Christmas. At least this year I've got Arkham City, Skyrim and Deus Ex to tide me over until ME3. 

I was looking forward to Arkham City... until Rocksteady decided to saddle it with GfWL again and then said they weren't releasing the PC CE in Australia/NZ for no real reason. On top of that now BioWare have said SWTOR is going to be delayed outside of the States and Europe, making me seriously reconsider that one too. One of the only times an MMO looked interesting and I wanted to get in on Day 1 to avoid all the catching-up nonsense, and then they pull this crap. In this day and age.

Deus Ex: HR is looking decent though, and I too am looking at Skyrim with interest.

Can you not get the CE on Steam or the EA online thing (as much as I think that site is way too expensive)?

Australia and New Zealand really do seem to get shafted when it comes to games. I thought the ME3 CE was expensive in England until I heard how much you guys would have to pay.

And if I'm honest, the only reason I want Skyrim is because it has dragons in it. I found Oblivion to be dissappointing, but dragons make everything better.

[Candidate 88766]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
i kindof get the feeling bioware doesnt understand why i played ME1.

Why did you play ME1?

Most people played it for the story, characters and setting. If you played it because you thought it was an RPG I imagine you were very disappointed - ME1's RPG features were poorly implemented and generally slated in reviews. Bioware has said it is focusing on the story and characters and stuff in ME3 and that is absolutely the right approach. What genre the gameplay falls into is a pretty small issue.

[Serenum]

Phaedon wrote...

And this doesn't have to do with RPG Elements, honey, it's Terror_K being disappointed by ME3 due to Silverman promising more action.

Oh well, it's been a long while since I last posted in Bioware's forums given the inane fanboy-ism that has permeated this place for a while now. Bioware just can't do wrong in their view and everything is perfect and how it should be... Well, criticism and diverging opinions is key to development and continuous growth, it's a shame that folks can't talk about things to improve or their concerns without having a troupe of lickspits come around and start bashing them.

What he wrote was pretty clear and it wasn't as simplistic as "...being disappointed by ME3 due to Silverman promising more action." but rather a concern around several factors that given what Silverman said leads anyone to think that they aren't focusing on aspects that are important to him, and by the way, factors that are also important to a number of other fans myself included. Plus, why is more action a bad thing? Since when is having action something undesirable for RPG fans? If anything I definitely want MORE action, how it is implemented is the key issue where folks might have different opinions but having "action" is an integral part of any game...

He didn't delve into "What is an RPG" discussion. All he said was state his opinion about an article in a good computer games magazine where the Director of Marketing for Bioware did a poor job representing his company. It's quite hilarious to see all the misconceptions about marketing and the role of a marketing professional being spouted in this thread. Marketing isn't "hype", a GOOD marketing strategy, which can involve several different communication vehicles/channels and one of which is PR, can generate "hype" or excitement which at the end of the day will hopefully translate into a purchasing behavior which is the ultimate goal. When he goes out and says the sort of things he said in that interview he is alienating or at the very least generating concern with a very important consumer base of his company which is the RPG-interested players.

Finally, his job is to represent Bioware and the product to consumers and customers (retail), he is the one doing or at the very least managing and building the strategy to sell this game into retailers and positioning it with the consumer base. When folks say that he doesn't have any impact in the game you are dead wrong. While he isn't working in any development piece, he can have a huge impact in the company's image and sales for the product, both good or bad. For god's sake he should have done a better job at that interview and easily appeased both RPG and Shooter fans easily....

[AlanC9]

Ace of Dawn wrote...
Nothing really. The term "Role-Playing Game" is such a vague and abstract term that everyone has different definitions about it (if you look at that "bioware is forgetting rpg mechanics thread, there is literally about 100 pages devoted to people bickering over what an RPG is). For many, if numbers are not involved, it's not an RPG. For others it's inventory, or story, or character freedom, or choice, or customisation, or items, or dice, or pens and papers. The idea is vague and Mass Effect is hybrid, meaning the RPG fans shout "Ruined Forever" because it's not *their* RPG, even though Mass Effect has never really been that.

All true, but if ME1 accidentally hit the right spot for someone, like it did for the OP, he's certainly got a right to complain when the series evolves away from his own personal tastes.

[Pedro Costa]

Mesina2 wrote...

I think BSN users should not listen to Silverman on what can we expect in ME3.

I think no one should. Seriously, he sucks at PR. I understand needing to expand the fanbase to the more mainstream shooter player, after all, I was a shooter player during my teens - but the way Silverman talks, he "appeals" to those players by sidelining potential RPG fans and worrying the already existing fanbase.

Udina would be a better PR manager. And he's a fictional character for crying out loud.

[AlanC9]

Ser Rune wrote...
Finally, his job is to represent Bioware and the product to consumers and customers (retail), he is the one doing or at the very least managing and building the strategy to sell this game into retailers and positioning it with the consumer base. When folks say that he doesn't have any impact in the game you are dead wrong. While he isn't working in any development piece, he can have a huge impact in the company's image and sales for the product, both good or bad. For god's sake he should have done a better job at that interview and easily appeased both RPG and Shooter fans easily.... 

By lying? I think Terror_K's right to think that he won't like ME3 much. And if the marketing lets him know that in advance, it's good marketing.

[Saber Wolf]

Chewin3 wrote...
And I thought Mr. Silverman was cool.

Don't let his "awesomeness" distract you.

[VolusvsReaper]

People are so worried making 340 of these threads a week but when the game comes out they will be on here praising how awesome and amazing it is.