370 réponses à ce sujet

[sickserb]

good thing marketing doesn't make the game huh?

[Lumikki]

tmp7704 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

I never thinked that ME3 has any deep rpg elements. It was you who assumed that I think so.

That assumption was based on your initial post (and then further clarifications) as they'd make very little sense otherwise. Not that they made that much sense even with said assumption, like we're in middle of discussing.

If i instead take what you say now as sign of the opposite, i.e. you believe ME3 isn't going to have any deep rpg elements, then your comment how the "old customer base knows what they're getting" becomes even more contradictory, and the point of your initial post even more muddled.

Only because you make it contradictory. I even sayed where the contradictory was when you "asked", but you keep arguing that it was somewhere else. Because you have so high need to prove that there is something wrong there, when it's all about how you wanted to assume the meaning of the sentense. Sentense was ironic as showing how absurd idea it is to think that "deeper RPG" would be good selling point as marketing strategy for ME3 (serie). When hole ME serie has been very light RPG. Think about OP, how it's all about RPG, then think ME3 from marketing point as getting new customers, for game what ME3 really is. Point been ME3 may have more RPG elements than previous ME games, but it's NEVER gonna be deep RPG, because that's not what ME serie is. OLD customers knows this, so why market that to them, what they allready know.

Marketing is about sell the product for new customers, cause them to be interested about the game.
Marketing is not about explain game features for old customers.

Modifié par Lumikki, 22 juillet 2011 - 12:02 .

[ALex360]

I am impressed of how many paranoid fans there is!ME3 WILL have more rpg elements,we can see that clearly on the E3 demo videos(on the demo of Gamespot,for example) ,on the weapon mobs,the new powers,the charater customization,etc.

I am not worried at all.From what they showed,its very clear that ME3 will be the best of the trilogy.

[tmp7704]

termokanden wrote...

The appearance packs are a bit of a ripoff I think. But we were talking about weapons. The weapons are much more varied in ME2. Also for squadmates.

I have to admit since i never really varied the loadout beyond occasional change of the heavy weapon or swap to some 'upgrade' half throughout the game, i only really noticed the different looks of the said heavy weapons.

(that's for the basic game at least. I don't buy weapon packs since i feel they're pointless at best, and just a way to make the game trivial when i have the difficuly slider if i ever wanted that, at worst)

[Someone With Mass]

sickserb wrote...

good thing marketing doesn't make the game huh?

Seems like some people need to learn this, though.

[C9316]

Someone With Mass wrote...

sickserb wrote...

good thing marketing doesn't make the game huh?

Seems like some people need to learn this, though.

This is the same crowd that whined and cried foul with ME2's marketing, saying it revealed too much. Bioware is damned if they do and damned if they don't pretty much.

[hangmans tree]

Besides
It's a natural entry point for new players

I think there is a leak somewher in BW HQ. Of poisonous gas. Or the water supply is soiled with dangerous bacteria that causes halucination and debilitation.

The final part of a trilogy? The perfect entry point?

Now I know I should have traded my degree on more solid and plain pov. What was I thinking? Education? Erudition? WTF for?

[Terror_K]

Phaedon wrote...

No, because you see, there are some people who value opinions,

and don't go

"Repeat with me:

-Mass Effect 2 was not an RPG.

-Mass Effect 2 is a mainstream Michael Bay action movie

Hyperbole much?

[Phaedon]

Terror_K wrote...
Hyperbole much?

No, I am not being hyperbolic at all. Go over the DA2 forums, mention Silverman, and see what the first couple of responses will be.

There are idiots who repeat the same things, which mean nothing basically, and that includes both fanboys and whiners.

Hurr durr, it's a meme, let's go repeat it and spread it around.

Modifié par Phaedon, 22 juillet 2011 - 11:58 .

[tmp7704]

Lumikki wrote...

Only because you make it contradictory. I even sayed where the contradictory was when you "asked", but you keep arguing that it was somewhere else.

Because what you said to be contradictory, actually wasn't...

I'm not really making it contradictory, it's simply how it reads. Now, it's quite possible what you wrote and what you had on mind were two different things, but then as i can't read minds i only have to go by what's written.

Anyway since you also clarify what you actually meant, think it can be dropped

[InfiniteCuts]

I'm not going to disparage Mr. Silverman or suggest he be fired... he seems like he enjoys his job and brings a little enthusiasm with it. Whether or not his methods are "successful" is up for debate since we have none of the metrics either way. One thing I've noticed is that few "core" fans seem to take him seriously as a credible source of ME info on anything outside of hype.

What I'm curious about, however, is what market he is communicating with through that article. Any gamer with disposable income and an average IQ knows that Mass Effect is NOT the game you look to as an alternative to GoW, Halo, CoD or any other AAA shooter out there. So who is it they are marketing to when they say things like this?

The shooter or action-adventure fan reads that article... chuckles a little... then moves on to other articles/games that are of real interest to them. Meanwhile, Mass Effect fans read it and are left confused or try their best to rationalize it as marketing hype. Who is actually getting excited when they read some of the comments he makes? People that have never played Mass Effect 1 or 2? Is it worth it to aggressively market to this particular group at the expense of your existing base?

[Phaedon]

Mesina2 wrote...

Well that's the new argument against "Stats make RPGs".

[tmp7704]

hangmans tree wrote...

I think there is a leak somewher in BW HQ. Of poisonous gas. Or the water supply is soiled with dangerous bacteria that causes halucination and debilitation.

The final part of a trilogy? The perfect entry point?

Well, to be fair the guy is in charge of marketing and his job is to sell the game. Honestly, he isn't going to spin it any other way but to try and convince every potential customer that no, it's absolutely not a problem if they didn't play the previous titles...

[Phaedon]

It's basically like expecting to see the trailer of the latest Harry Potter movie say "Yeah, you are f***ed if you didn't see the previous ones".

Modifié par Phaedon, 22 juillet 2011 - 12:10 .

[didymos1120]

hangmans tree wrote...

I think there is a leak somewher in BW HQ. Of poisonous gas. Or the water supply is soiled with dangerous bacteria that causes halucination and debilitation.

The final part of a trilogy? The perfect entry point?

No, they're not high and they know quite well that playing all three from the start is the best way to experience the story, but they're just hoping people buy the game anyway.  See, if they do, they'll not only make money from that ME3 sale, but there's a good chance their new customer will then go back and buy both ME1 and ME2 and they'll make even more money.  Just look at how often we see people going "I played ME2. It was awesome, so I just bought ME1...." on the forums.  Given that, why wouldn't you try to talk people into buying ME3, regardless of whether they played 1 and 2?

Modifié par didymos1120, 22 juillet 2011 - 12:12 .

[Terror_K]

Phaedon wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Well that's the new argument against "Stats make RPGs".

I'd say it's a better argument for "even most shooters these days do RPG better than ME2 did, and it was supposed to be an RPG"

[slimgrin]

Silverman isn't the best pr guy, I have to admit.

[Rivercurse]

I don't see any real problems with what he said. So they are looking at other games to determine what fans liked about them? How is that a bad thing? All devs conduct this kind of research during the development process. If the issue is with the types of games he named, he also said in that same paragraph that they looked at other RPG's as well.

"dumbed down" always seems to be the primary criticism of Mass Effect around this site, but with everything we've actually seen from ME3 so far, that criticism doesn't seem valid to me. The improved skill tree system, multiple power evolutions, and weapon customisation tables are already vast improvements over the streamlined ME2 system.

[CroGamer002]

didymos1120 wrote...

hangmans tree wrote...

I think there is a leak somewher in BW HQ. Of poisonous gas. Or the water supply is soiled with dangerous bacteria that causes halucination and debilitation.

The final part of a trilogy? The perfect entry point?

No, they're not high and they know quite well that playing all three from the start is the best way to experience the story, but they're just hoping people buy the game anyway.  See, if they do, they'll not only make money from that ME3 sale, but there's a good chance their new customer will then go back and buy both ME1 and ME2 and they'll make even more money.  Just look at how often we see people going "I played ME2. It was awesome, so I just bought ME1...." on the forums.  Given that, why wouldn't you try to talk people into buying ME3, regardless of whether they played 1 and 2?

U NO TRUE FAN IF NO PLAY 1ST 2!!!11!

[didymos1120]

InfiniteCuts wrote...

Meanwhile, Mass Effect fans read it and are left confused or try their best to rationalize it as marketing hype.

It doesn't require rationalizing.  It's dead obvious that it's marketing hype.  Generally speaking, that's what the stuff that people in marketing say is.

[CroGamer002]

Terror_K wrote...

I'd say it's a better argument for "even most shooters these days do RPG better than ME2 did, and it was supposed to be an RPG"

I'd like to say that CoD 4 did better just with stats and weapon mods then ME1.



So shame on ME1 as well.

[Babli]

lol its buttonawesome guy. I cant take him seriously.

Anyway, his words from that article... it sounds awful. Thats all I am saying, I dont feel like arguing about opinions with Bioware fanboys.

[Phaedon]

Terror_K wrote...
I'd say it's a better argument for "even most shooters these days do RPG better than ME2 did, and it was supposed to be an RPG" 

Actually ME2 weapons have two times the stats displayed there. Check the wiki.


Also, I consider my point proved:

Babli wrote...

lol its buttonawesome guy. I cant take him seriously.

Modifié par Phaedon, 22 juillet 2011 - 12:17 .

[Lumikki]

InfiniteCuts wrote...

The shooter or action-adventure fan reads that article... chuckles a little... then moves on to other articles/games that are of real interest to them. Meanwhile, Mass Effect fans read it and are left confused or try their best to rationalize it as marketing hype. Who is actually getting excited when they read some of the comments he makes? People that have never played Mass Effect 1 or 2? Is it worth it to aggressively market to this particular group at the expense of your existing base?

I don't get this, why you included action-adventure fan read this and say they would not be interested. When hole Mass Effect serie is very close to action-adventure market. I can understand first person shooter hardcore fans passing ME serie like plague.  I don't know why ME old fans would be confused marketing and actual game information?

Marketing is there to sell game for new customers, get them interested about the product.
Marketing is not there to explain old customers what they product is, because they allready know it.

Modifié par Lumikki, 22 juillet 2011 - 12:18 .