2469 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Keely may mention the room, I dunno, I found it by experimenting and dying. The Courier has more than 9 reloads.

[TobiTobsen]

*sigh*

Once again I started a game with the goal of taking the Mojave for the NCR and once again I ended up with a independent Vegas.
I simply won't let douchebags like Moore, Oliver and Kimball take all the credit while the good guys like Hsu and Crocker get the short end of the stick.

Is there a way to... "remove" at least Moore without breaking the NCR quests?

[Chashan]

Big-Boss687 wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

And yes, a low INT character is perfect for the Legion.

Pfft.

Indeed.

Call the Legion brutal, oppressive or whatever. That does not mean that they don't have brains behind their operation (Caesar hisself knows his Hegel, and Vulpes Inculta is no dumb hill-billy either).

Addai67 wrote...

@ Chashan: Don't know anything about those mods, sorry. I think Bethesda nixed the Requiem mod because it essentially gave people a free copy of FO3.

Alright, suppose I'll see soon enough how things work once I get ToTW.

Modifié par Chashan, 11 janvier 2014 - 03:32 .

[Giggles_Manically]

You know what the terrifying presence perk tells me?

That the Legion is simply bullies who cant operate when someone stands up to them.
Vulpes? "LEGIONARIES WE GOT A PROBLEM!"
Caesar? "NO NO GUARDS GUARDS HELP ME!" In pure panic
Hit Squad? They run away in a blind panic.

3/3 is kinda a depressing stat.

Add in the blatant hypocrisy, lack of staying power as noted by the NCR and House and Ulysses as well as their total inability to think that anyone else has a point to make...well.

It gives me free loot to rob and get rich on!
Seriously I make around 1200 caps selling all the gear on their hit squads! Caesar is Santa Claus!

[Chashan]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

You know what the terrifying presence perk tells me?

That the Legion is simply bullies who cant operate when someone stands up to them.
Vulpes? "LEGIONARIES WE GOT A PROBLEM!"
Caesar? "NO NO GUARDS GUARDS HELP ME!" In pure panic
Hit Squad? They run away in a blind panic.

3/3 is kinda a depressing stat.

Add in the blatant hypocrisy, lack of staying power as noted by the NCR and House and Ulysses as well as their total inability to think that anyone else has a point to make...well.

It gives me free loot to rob and get rich on!
Seriously I make around 1200 caps selling all the gear on their hit squads! Caesar is Santa Claus!

Except Terrifying Presence sounds more like a psychopath rather than a goody-two shoes "hero"-kinda deal, looking at the options available across the board. 


There's no further expansion on that perk other than "Improved Terrifying Presence" on Nexus which ties it to stats and other perks, is there? Could use some more such 'renegade-moments'.

Modifié par Chashan, 11 janvier 2014 - 03:55 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Some of the threats with it are pretty boss.

"If you raise that gun I will you kill and everyone else in this room!"
"I will tear down your codex and bask in the dying agony of those who hold it dear"

Though my personal fave?
"I CRAWLED OUT MY GRAVE TO PUT YOU IN YOURS BENNY!"

[Barbarossa2010]

Chashan wrote...

Big-Boss687 wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

And yes, a low INT character is perfect for the Legion.

Pfft.

Indeed.

Call the Legion brutal, oppressive or whatever. That does not mean that they don't have brains behind their operation (Caesar hisself knows his Hegel, and Vulpes Inculta is no dumb hill-billy either).

Addai67 wrote...

@ Chashan: Don't know anything about those mods, sorry. I think Bethesda nixed the Requiem mod because it essentially gave people a free copy of FO3.

Alright, suppose I'll see soon enough how things work once I get ToTW.

Sure. I just fail to see the fruits of this great intellect. Is it reflected in power, coercive force, organization? I'm not seeing it. They're doing nothing that hasn't either been done far better, or has been absolutely discredited, before.

Caesar may well know his Hegel and Vulpes may have a great knack for sounding like an articulate, but tyrannical, creep; but where's this great expression, the great mark, of all this grand intellect?

Oh, I know...building up an army of fanatic loyalists to charge a .50 cal wielding squad with spears and rocks and calling it manly. Harumph...harrumph,  Got it. Pure genius. At least, high level Legionnaires have the decency to attack you with Marksman carbines and assault rifles. So much for that whole anti-technology thing.

Balls is one thing, intellectual prowess is another. Both have their virtue, and one has its severe limits, but the Legion has failed to integrate them. All they show my Courier is the brute force and ignorance characteristic of yet another delusional tyrant whose 'grand society' will crumble into chaos upon his death. Not really a lot of smarts outside the power circle can be found. That typically bodes poorly for a highly marshal society, and the post-mortems of such does not usually include the words "rational," "scholarly" or "thoughtful." "Ignorant," "foolish," "megalomaniacal," "cultish," "failed" are more appropriate.

I'll be the first to admit that ambition, even blind ambition, requires a certain amount of smarts. It's just does not automatically follow that it is of a sufficient nature to ensure durability.

Now, if we're comparing things within game; of the autocrats, House is the smart one, and has shown it in his ability to endure, his ability to plan and coordinate resources, develop contingencies, and in his ability to save the majority of Vegas.

TL;DR: not seeing the intellectual prowess of the Legion...at all.

[Addai]

As Ulysses says, Caesar's philosophy falls flat on its face (or reaches its ultimate end) when you best him in battle.

Speaking of taking out the trash, I had a bug where Alerio kept running up to me every time I entered the Strip. So I applied a Light in Shining Darkness.



The NCR mopes hollered a bit and then went back to their debauching.

[Barbarossa2010]

You're PC looks absolutely badass. Has the air of someone has traversed the Divide. I dig those security helmets. Which Duster is that?

Yeah, Alerio sounds like he was in need of a little .45 caliber therapy.

[Addai]

That's Ulysses' duster. Can't pass up that sweet sweet +Crit Chance. The helmet is a mod but like the riot gear helmet.

So, I killed Mr. House. Man, that's tough for me. I feel like a complete heel doing that, usurping his territory and wasting so much potential. I admire him too much to enjoy it. Anyway. On to Hoover Dam.

I also got the Pimp Boy 3000, lol. The ultimate quest reward.

[Addai]

Okaay. I didn't say it was the best, I said I like it.

[Bushido Effect]

I played NV not long ago. Looks like crap compared to ME3.

Mods help tho. I just want FO4 soon.

[happy_daiz]

I...actually took a couple days off from New Vegas. I had been playing it so much that I was worried I'd burn myself out on it. My poor Courier is still in Zion, waiting for me to get my sweet arse back there to finish it.

I got caught up in reading a ridiculously large fan fiction piece, that I'm still only about halfway through. Dammit. lol

Anyway, I've been lurking to see what you guys have been up to. I love this thread. <3

Modifié par happy_daiz, 12 janvier 2014 - 04:39 .

[happy_daiz]

You know, I had to force myself to get through Dead Money, and if I'm being honest, Lonesome Road, because I was positively shaking in my boots in both. If I stopped for any amount of time during either, I'm not sure I'd be able to continue. I have to one-shot it, or I lose my nerve. lol

[Chashan]

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Sure. I just fail to see the fruits of this great intellect. Is it reflected in power, coercive force, organization? I'm not seeing it. They're doing nothing that hasn't either been done far better, or has been absolutely discredited, before.

Discredited how? I pointed out somewhere else that the grorious "democratic", republican ideals of the NCR seem very much discredited in a setting which arrived at its post-apocalyptic state by the hands of just one such system.

Caesar may well know his Hegel and Vulpes may have a great knack for sounding like an articulate, but tyrannical, creep; but where's this great expression, the great mark, of all this grand intellect?

Caesar's discussing the strengths_and_weaknesses of his rule come to mind. He admits that he is the weakest link due to his age, he further even goes out of his way and states that the conflict with the NCR will invariably change the Legion, due to the Republic being on a higher civilizational level than all the individual tribes the Legion assimilated into its ranks

While not directly mentioned, the Courier's role in all that can be considered as well. More on that later.

 

Oh, I know...building up an army of fanatic loyalists to charge a .50 cal wielding squad with spears and rocks and calling it manly. Harumph...harrumph,  Got it. Pure genius. At least, high level Legionnaires have the decency to attack you with Marksman carbines and assault rifles. So much for that whole anti-technology thing.

I am thankful for the equipment-lists being as accessible as they are, in that case, which makes adjusting them rather easy all things told - after all, why wouldn't legionarii make use of Service Rifles taken off their NCR-foes and such?

Doing that isn't even at odds when looking at the actual Roman military of antiquity, who were known to adapt to their foes' tactics and use their weaponry as well. Pila found their way into the Roman arsenal after being levelled at them by one of Rome's enemies to great effect in the time of Rome's consolidation of the Italian peninsula, Kataphraktoi employed to devastating effect by the Parthians and Sassanids in the East left their impression on Roman military doctrine as well (and by extension was the root for the centuries long dominance of cavalry in medieval armies), etc.

Balls is one thing, intellectual prowess is another. Both have their virtue, and one has its severe limits, but the Legion has failed to integrate them. All they show my Courier is the brute force and ignorance characteristic of yet another delusional tyrant whose 'grand society' will crumble into chaos upon his death. Not really a lot of smarts outside the power circle can be found. That typically bodes poorly for a highly marshal society, and the post-mortems of such does not usually include the words "rational," "scholarly" or "thoughtful." "Ignorant," "foolish," "megalomaniacal," "cultish," "failed" are more appropriate.

All three "systems" in F:NV are somewhat dependent on a strong leader for them to work. Mr. House arguably the most out of all of them. As I mentioned, Caesar is the one who does the most reflection upon this, when it comes down to it. Hardly something your average warlord who solely subscribes to "Might is Right" would do.

I'll be the first to admit that ambition, even blind ambition, requires a certain amount of smarts. It's just does not automatically follow that it is of a sufficient nature to ensure durability.

Now, if we're comparing things within game; of the autocrats, House is the smart one, and has shown it in his ability to endure, his ability to plan and coordinate resources, develop contingencies, and in his ability to save the majority of Vegas.

TL;DR: not seeing the intellectual prowess of the Legion...at all.

He's cheated death for a couple centuries, true. That does not mean that the software he relies on for this is free of bugs and miscalculations (as is the case when Couriers turn on him, for example).

And Couriers giving the Legion a decisive hand in events is something that should not be underestimated either. The epilogue shows Caesar goes so far as to have their image devoted to coinage, and thus have the Couriers' story and exploits spread. When the Courier is a woman or a 'True Bachelor', who's to say what effect that will have on Caesar's further considerations and the Legion at large?


Anyway, this conversation alone shows me why F:NV is remarkable: even a tyrant of Caesar's calibre is presented in a way that one can actually converse about his reign's pro's and con's rather than being dismissed as 'lol-indoctrinated'. 





As regards gear, this still takes the cake for me, rawr.

Modifié par Chashan, 12 janvier 2014 - 06:26 .

[Addai]

Caesar has good dialogue, but there's no character that I can come up with who would have reasonable justification for buying his rationale and conquering the Mojave on his behalf. And, like I said, his philosophy meets its logical end when you can best him and live.

Not that I like the NCR. The best thing about the indie ending (which I finished last night) was turning the tables on Oliver and telling them to go home.

But, I read over the ending slides on the wiki last night, too, and it convinced me that there really is no good ending. All of them have unpalatable outcomes though some are certainly worse than others.

Modifié par Addai67, 12 janvier 2014 - 08:07 .

[Master Warder Z_]

Chashan wrote...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...

Sure. I just fail to see the fruits of this great intellect. Is it reflected in power, coercive force, organization? I'm not seeing it. They're doing nothing that hasn't either been done far better, or has been absolutely discredited, before.

Discredited how? I pointed out somewhere else that the grorious "democratic", republican ideals of the NCR seem very much discredited in a setting which arrived at its post-apocalyptic state by the hands of just one such system.

Caesar may well know his Hegel and Vulpes may have a great knack for sounding like an articulate, but tyrannical, creep; but where's this great expression, the great mark, of all this grand intellect?

Caesar's discussing the strengths_and_weaknesses of his rule come to mind. He admits that he is the weakest link due to his age, he further even goes out of his way and states that the conflict with the NCR will invariably change the Legion, due to the Republic being on a higher civilizational level than all the individual tribes the Legion assimilated into its ranks

While not directly mentioned, the Courier's role in all that can be considered as well. More on that later.

 

Oh, I know...building up an army of fanatic loyalists to charge a .50 cal wielding squad with spears and rocks and calling it manly. Harumph...harrumph,  Got it. Pure genius. At least, high level Legionnaires have the decency to attack you with Marksman carbines and assault rifles. So much for that whole anti-technology thing.

I am thankful for the equipment-lists being as accessible as they are, in that case, which makes adjusting them rather easy all things told - after all, why wouldn't legionarii make use of Service Rifles taken off their NCR-foes and such?

Doing that isn't even at odds when looking at the actual Roman military of antiquity, who were known to adapt to their foes' tactics and use their weaponry as well. Pila found their way into the Roman arsenal after being levelled at them by one of Rome's enemies to great effect in the time of Rome's consolidation of the Italian peninsula, Kataphraktoi employed to devastating effect by the Parthians and Sassanids in the East left their impression on Roman military doctrine as well (and by extension was the root for the centuries long dominance of cavalry in medieval armies), etc.

Balls is one thing, intellectual prowess is another. Both have their virtue, and one has its severe limits, but the Legion has failed to integrate them. All they show my Courier is the brute force and ignorance characteristic of yet another delusional tyrant whose 'grand society' will crumble into chaos upon his death. Not really a lot of smarts outside the power circle can be found. That typically bodes poorly for a highly marshal society, and the post-mortems of such does not usually include the words "rational," "scholarly" or "thoughtful." "Ignorant," "foolish," "megalomaniacal," "cultish," "failed" are more appropriate.

All three "systems" in F:NV are somewhat dependent on a strong leader for them to work. Mr. House arguably the most out of all of them. As I mentioned, Caesar is the one who does the most reflection upon this, when it comes down to it. Hardly something your average warlord who solely subscribes to "Might is Right" would do.

I'll be the first to admit that ambition, even blind ambition, requires a certain amount of smarts. It's just does not automatically follow that it is of a sufficient nature to ensure durability.

Now, if we're comparing things within game; of the autocrats, House is the smart one, and has shown it in his ability to endure, his ability to plan and coordinate resources, develop contingencies, and in his ability to save the majority of Vegas.

TL;DR: not seeing the intellectual prowess of the Legion...at all.

He's cheated death for a couple centuries, true. That does not mean that the software he relies on for this is free of bugs and miscalculations (as is the case when Couriers turn on him, for example).

And Couriers giving the Legion a decisive hand in events is something that should not be underestimated either. The epilogue shows Caesar goes so far as to have their image devoted to coinage, and thus have the Couriers' story and exploits spread. When the Courier is a woman or a 'True Bachelor', who's to say what effect that will have on Caesar's further considerations and the Legion at large?


Anyway, this conversation alone shows me why F:NV is remarkable: even a tyrant of Caesar's calibre is presented in a way that one can actually converse about his reign's pro's and con's rather than being dismissed as 'lol-indoctrinated'. 





As regards gear, this still takes the cake for me, rawr.

Excellent and well thought out defense of the Legion, Its ideology and its Leader.

In fact so well done i feel ever so slightly dillussioned considering that many of these agruments would have been similar to the one i would have attempted to use.

Personally? Caesar seems to be the best fit for actually restoring some semblence of long term order and stability to the region while at the sametime ensuring its population protected and strenghend by having a localized martial body.

House is content to let the armies of the West hover at his door and merely bleed them dry; But he fails to consider the implication in his reign if the Legion ever did merely withdrawl. The NCR would rapidly overcome the Mojave and while it likely would utterly collapse in the process it would unleash even further regional chaos with a wandering and directionless Horde.

House himself realizes the importance of Caesar whom directs the Legion and hence his desire for him to remain alive until the final battle and thus the Legion wouldn't distintergrate in his backyard thus further inflaming the situation.

The NCR is a crumbling relic by the time of New Vegas.

Their economy is weakened and still eeking on from the transition to Water from Gold for the backing of their currency, their Government and upper class are very divided and corrupt, With social upheaval occuring rather regularly back within California according to a few individuals and with open revolution being a possiblity occuring in the new future.

That said they have their Pros and Cons; The NCR like the Legion presents the possiblity for stablizition, an eventual future and some semblence of order. But the baggage that goes along with it seems to outweigh it at least in my eye, having a society that throughly corrupt in charge of managing yet even more territory when their own territory is already crime and strife ridden seems to just be adding more weight to an already broken foundation.

My main point is, As horrid and brutal as life is under the Legion it is indeed life.

Crime, Corruption, Self interest and anything else detracting from society are brutally and utterly purged but this is merely the current stage of the Legion, before it reaches its ultimate Anthesis as Caesar explained it. Whom is to say what the Legion will ultimately resemble? 

That said even in its current state it beats Anarchy, House or the NCR by a wide Margin.

[Addai]

Master Warder Z wrote...

House is content to let the armies of the West hover at his door and merely bleed them dry; But he fails to consider the implication in his reign if the Legion ever did merely withdrawl. The NCR would rapidly overcome the Mojave and while it likely would utterly collapse in the process it would unleash even further regional chaos with a wandering and directionless Horde.

Playing your enemies off each other and letting them bleed each other dry while you reap the profits is a much better strategy than either the NCR or Caesar extending themselves beyond what they can assimilate and hold.

The NCR is a crumbling relic by the time of New Vegas.

Their economy is weakened and still eeking on from the transition to Water from Gold for the backing of their currency, their Government and upper class are very divided and corrupt, With social upheaval occuring rather regularly back within California according to a few individuals and with open revolution being a possiblity occuring in the new future.

None of these things outweigh the atrocities that are committed in the everyday course of keeping Caesar in power.

That said even in its current state it beats Anarchy, House or the NCR by a wide Margin.

The outcome under House, Courier-led and NCR are both equitable and allow a fair amount of autonomy and prosperity for most of the people in the Mojave, especially when the Courier has good karma.

Moving on.

Had a bug where I couldn't recruit Arcade after Lonesome Road, so I wasn't able to complete his quest. Bummer. My companion mod allows you to mark a specific spot home, so instead of the Lucky 38, he just wanders around Goodsprings and hangs out on my front doorstep. Moocher.



Speaking of outcomes, man some of Arcade's outcomes can be bleak!  I thought Boone's were but Arcade's are definitely worse.

The mighty NCR after I save their president from assassins.


*fingers flexing on Thump Thump*

[happy_daiz]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Funnily enough, I've never completed F:NV to the point of actually meeting the General Oliver (don't hate me, I simply never had enough time to get to that point and then when I had some time again, I restarted a new playthrough because I forgot my RP agenda for the previous character ...).


He looks like someone who'd need a MIRV up his ass.

I had a few abandoned runs, myself. I made it to the final battle at the dam before, but something would always distract me (squirrel!), and I'd end up starting a new run. Did finally meet him a couple of weeks ago. Your assessment is correct.


@Addai - I've had that happen before. Releasing non-human followers, then talking to Arcade did the trick. Of course, I'm not on PC, so I don't know if it would be the same fix for you.

Modifié par happy_daiz, 12 janvier 2014 - 11:58 .

[Barbarossa2010]

To me, Oliver is just a company man dunce. He's the chief enforcer of pre-war "discredited "society, and you can see his true colors when you give him the finger, as opposed to his drooling thank you's when you play NCR loyalist. It's unfortunate they are in a hurry to repeat the same mistakes.

I'd sooner back Hanlon if it were possible (too bad he wouldn't make my Courier a Ranger and taken matters more into his own hands) than either Oliver or his lackey COL Moore. Hated her attitude, and regretted every single thing I did for her, especially executing Papa Khan and delivering the Khans, Boomers, Brotherhood, etc right into her hands.

He is definitely in need of high caliber rapid-fire therapy like Alerio and his boss.

[Chashan]

Addai67 wrote...

[...]

The mighty NCR after I save their president from assassins.

[...]

Speaking of that, I find the following mods for their equipment somewhat help the NCR make a more "mighty" impression:

NCR Rearmament

and

NCR Trooper Overhaul

Both look nice, latter's still stamped as beta, though. Nevertheless, seeing how it was only uploaded a couple months ago development will still go far, I suppose.



Mr Oliver could do with some actual combat gear hisself, seeing how he is right on the front-lines...

Modifié par Chashan, 13 janvier 2014 - 12:09 .

[Addai]

In one of the outcomes Hanlon becomes a Senator. Not that I think he could accomplish much even there.