28 réponses à ce sujet

[NoxNoctum]

Alright so I'm at the end here and I REALLY don't want to go along with what Morrigan suggests. I know it's just a game and all but it's just so wrong .

Thing is though, I like her character, is it possible to "win her back" in the Witch Hunt DLC?

thanks 

Modifié par NoxNoctum, 23 juillet 2011 - 01:08 .

[Addai]

Win her back as in rekindle the romance? Nope.

Just do it. How many guys get to father demonspawn?

[theskymoves]

Addai67 wrote...

Just do it. How many guys get to father demonspawn?

What I wouldn't give for my Warden to be able to say that to Alistair...

[Brockololly]

NoxNoctum wrote...

Alright so I'm at the end here and I REALLY don't want to go along with what Morrigan suggests. I know it's just a game and all but it's just so wrong .

Thing is though, I like her character, is it possible to "win her back" in the Witch Hunt DLC?

thanks 

Win her back, if you turn down the Ritual and she leaves you in Origins? Well, sort of...but she'll not be too happy to see you in Witch Hunt.

But dammit, just do the deed and have your Warden be papa to an Old God Baby!

[Last Darkness]

Keep in mind that the current Archdemon is the Corrupted Dragon God of Beauty and that they dont choose to become archdemons. The darkspawm taint them.

You have to take chances sometimes to see differant possible outcomes otherwise its just going to be Blight after Blight with no change.

[Monica21]

NoxNoctum wrote...

Alright so I'm at the end here and I REALLY don't want to go along with what Morrigan suggests. I know it's just a game and all but it's just so wrong .

Thing is though, I like her character, is it possible to "win her back" in the Witch Hunt DLC?

thanks 

I never see anything inherently wrong about the ritual. It really has more to do with whether you trust what Morrigan says is true about the ritual and whether you trust her not to raise the child as someone who will raze Thedas and make it his kingdom. Are some things worth preserving? Sure. It just depends on whether you think this is worth preserving.

And more practically, I want as many Wardens available as possible after the Archdemon's death to rebuild in Ferelden. I don't care what kind of experience those Orlesians have. Don't trust em. 

[Wulfram]

Why would the Warden think the soul of an Old God of Tevinter is worth preserving?

For any human warden, they've been raised to see the Old Gods as the beings who brought original sin to the world and were sealed away by the Maker himself - pretty much the equivalent of the Devil. An elf would have seem likely to have little sympathy for the gods of those who destroyed Arlathan.

I guess the Dwarves might have a more positive spin on old Tevinter, but Morrigan really doesn't give any reasons why the soul of an Old God would be a good thing to keep around.

[Jedimaster88]

Actually you can "win her back", by going with her through the eluvian if your warden romanced her.

I agree with Monica21 about the ritual. Its more about how much you´re willing to trust morrigan after everything. Same can be said about killing flemeth. You dont know for certain if she tells the truth about flemeths plan to posses her so you just have decide whether she is worthy of all that trouble. Its actually also about who do you want to survive after all you´ve been through together. Is Loghain worthy of surviving after all he did? Is it worth it so Alistair can become king? Is it worth it so you can live happily with your loved one after that? If you dont want to do it, one of you dies a noble death saving the kingdom. One way or another, a price must be paid. You choose.

I can understand how difficult it can be for female characters who are in relationship with Alistair. One of the reasons I dont want to play with a female character. The thought of Alistair or even worse Loghain sleeping with lovely morrigan is just...disturbing:sick:. At least for me. I know its just a game and I propably sound like a jealous husband, but still...the thought is disturbing. I like to do the ritual with my male warden who is in love with morrigan. Later he gets to see the child and be with morrigan so Im happy for them. If the child does appear someday, it may have some epic affect. An interesting way to continue my wardens epic legacy:D

[Jedimaster88]

Wulfram wrote...

Why would the Warden think the soul of an Old God of Tevinter is worth preserving?

For any human warden, they've been raised to see the Old Gods as the beings who brought original sin to the world and were sealed away by the Maker himself - pretty much the equivalent of the Devil. An elf would have seem likely to have little sympathy for the gods of those who destroyed Arlathan.

I guess the Dwarves might have a more positive spin on old Tevinter, but Morrigan really doesn't give any reasons why the soul of an Old God would be a good thing to keep around.

Thats a good point. However it is the chantry, that teaches about those things. And after everything I´ve experienced about the chantry, Im not so certain whether I should believe every thing they say. The chantry says many things but we have no real way to know if they are truth. Its once again about what do you yourself believe in.

[Wulfram]

If Morrigan offered arguments to refute the Chantry's position then that would be one thing, but she really doesn't - she seems to expect you to see the advantages of keeping an old god soul around as self evident when they really aren't.

[Monica21]

Wulfram wrote...

Why would the Warden think the soul of an Old God of Tevinter is worth preserving?

For any human warden, they've been raised to see the Old Gods as the beings who brought original sin to the world and were sealed away by the Maker himself - pretty much the equivalent of the Devil. An elf would have seem likely to have little sympathy for the gods of those who destroyed Arlathan.

I guess the Dwarves might have a more positive spin on old Tevinter, but Morrigan really doesn't give any reasons why the soul of an Old God would be a good thing to keep around.

An untainted old god would be very interesting, provided it remembers it's and old god. As JediMaster said, the only thing we know about them that's fact is that they were worshipped by the Tevinters. The Chantry can guess what their relationship is to the darkspawn and the blight and "original sin" but it's not much more than legend. 

As for Morrigan herself, presumably Flemeth taught her to keep the old god around for selfish reasons. The legend is that they taught the Magisters magic and I would assume that learning old magic from an old god could be quite useful. There shouldn't be an assumption that such knowledge would be used for evil purposes, considering the Chantry's lore regarding the Old Gods is to specifically ward against worship of the Old Gods.

[Last Darkness]

I suggest you do some reading on the matter.
Its better to make a informed deicion then a uninformed one.
dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Archdemon
dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Old_Gods
dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Forum:Morrigan%27s_old_god_baby_thing.

Another thing to keep in mind, if you have had sex with Morrigan. She still has it in the end even if you didnt do the Dark Ritual.


The problem I actualy see though is your all focused on the wrong things and asking the wrong questions.

"Why in Flemeths Grimoire is there a fully detailed ritual to bind the soul of a Old God into a unborn child?"

[theskymoves]

Last Darkness wrote...

"Why in Flemeths Grimoire is there a fully detailed ritual to bind the soul of a Old God into a unborn child?"

Wait... when does Morrigan say that the Ritual is from Flemeth's Grimoire? I played through the scene with her at least 20 times last night (trying to troubleshoot an issue with my installation) and she never mentioned the grimoire... just that the ritual was taught to her by Flemeth, that it is the reason Flemeth saved the Wardens and the reason for sending Morrigan with them.

~confused tsm

Modifié par theskymoves, 26 juillet 2011 - 02:56 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Last Darkness wrote...


Another thing to keep in mind, if you have had sex with Morrigan. She still has it in the end even if you didnt do the Dark Ritual.

No she doesn't.. if she slept with the Warden and became pregnant without the ritual, the kid is a normal kid. The ritual is a fundemental, non-negotiable requirement to making the OGB. If it does not happen, there is no OGB, there is only Morrigan and the Wardens "natural" child. If the ritual was not performed, that means a Warden will die. And if a Warden dies, it means the archdemons soul has been destroyed as well, so there is no possibility, even a backdoor one, of an OGB if the ritual was rejected. Just a normal baby with a male Warden.

The problem I actualy see though is your all focused on the wrong things and asking the wrong questions.

"Why in Flemeths Grimoire is there a fully detailed ritual to bind the soul of a Old God into a unborn child?"

it wasn't in Flemmeth's Grimiore. If you never do Morrigans quests and retireve Flemmeth's grimiores, Morrigan still knows about the ritual. She tells you Flemmeth had planned it before she even joined you and Alistair, this was Flemmeth's whole plan. So the question is more lie, what exactly was Flemmeth's reason and motivation for wanting this OGB, and just how the hell does Flemmeth know what will work and how?

There's alot more to Flemmeth than we can possibly imagine, of that, I think we can all agree. The key thing I keep in mind with Morrigan and her ritual is not so much that Morrigan wants the kid badly for some reason, but the fact that it was Flemmeth's idea and creation. And we have little to no clue what Flemmeth is or what her true intentions are. Only Morrigan seems to have insight here, and she is reluctant to share.

[theskymoves]

Was doubting my recollection, so I checked the dialogue again (this is from the toolset):

Warden: And how do you know about this?
Morrigan: I know a great many things. How I know is not quite as important as what I am offering you, however.

and

Warden: How do you even know this will work?
Morrigan: I do not "know" it will work. I do, however, have every confidence in my mother's magic. And so should you. This is what my mother intended when she sent me with you. She was the one who first gave me this ritual and told me of what I was meant to do. This does not surprise you, does it? Did you not wonder why Flemeth saved your life, why she aided you? This is why.

~tsm

[theskymoves]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

There's alot more to Flemmeth than we can possibly imagine, of that, I think we can all agree. The key thing I keep in mind with Morrigan and her ritual is not so much that Morrigan wants the kid badly for some reason, but the fact that it was Flemmeth's idea and creation. And we have little to no clue what Flemmeth is or what her true intentions are. Only Morrigan seems to have insight here, and she is reluctant to share.

Am I alone in giving Morrigan the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that, until push came to shove, she never actually intended to go through with the ritual? Else, why would she antagonize Alistair so? Yes, she really really really doesn't like him, but eliminating an option (and, when the Warden is female, Morrigan's only option) for successful completion of her "mission" is an odd strategy. especially for someone so invested in survival at all costs.

~tsm

[caradoc2000]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

what exactly was Flemmeth's reason and motivation for wanting this OGB

Obviously she wants to become a grandmother. 

[Last Darkness]

Thanks for the clarification.

Side note theres something unique still about Morrigan being pregnant since as stated by David Gaider "Wardens can not have children except by magical means"

Also the point still stands, How does Flemeth know a Working Ritual to place a Old God into a Unborn child?
I doubt "She just made it up" or it was a Writers Convience.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

theskymoves wrote...

Am I alone in giving Morrigan the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that, until push came to shove, she never actually intended to go through with the ritual? Else, why would she antagonize Alistair so? Yes, she really really really doesn't like him, but eliminating an option (and, when the Warden is female, Morrigan's only option) for successful completion of her "mission" is an odd strategy. especially for someone so invested in survival at all costs.

~tsm

of course she did. However, when she started out with you, you futures were uncertain, and while you were the only 2 known Wardens in Ferelden, you are not the only two in existance. There are others out there, and it is likely, Morrigan figured that your warden would do the practical thing and locate others of their order while trying to find allies for the Blight. Morrigans tells you in Witch Hunt that she was not expecting the AD to show itself so soon, and knew she had to act with what little she had, it was now or never. So yes, Morrigan had intended to do the ritual from the time she left Flemmeths, it was of very high importance.to her. As far as Alistair went, Morrigan left with the belief that the problem of only two Wardens in Ferelden would be one that would be fixed, one way or another. So she felt to particular need to behave kindly towards Alistair, a person she held with utter contempt. She saw no need to.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Last Darkness wrote...

Thanks for the clarification.

Side note theres something unique still about Morrigan being pregnant since as stated by David Gaider "Wardens can not have children except by magical means"

Also the point still stands, How does Flemeth know a Working Ritual to place a Old God into a Unborn child?
I doubt "She just made it up" or it was a Writers Convience.

No, the statement was regarding two wardens having children together as being impossible, except through magical means. One warden and a non Warden, however, is different. it's difficult, as the fertility of the warden is quite low, but is not impossible, as the Warden is not completely sterile on their own. With a non-tainted person of normal fertility (which Morrigan is) it is possible, though uncommon, trhough "natural" means.

[theskymoves]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

theskymoves wrote...

Am I alone in giving Morrigan the benefit of the doubt, and assuming that, until push came to shove, she never actually intended to go through with the ritual? Else, why would she antagonize Alistair so? Yes, she really really really doesn't like him, but eliminating an option (and, when the Warden is female, Morrigan's only option) for successful completion of her "mission" is an odd strategy. especially for someone so invested in survival at all costs.

~tsm

of course she did. However, when she started out with you, you futures were uncertain, and while you were the only 2 known Wardens in Ferelden, you are not the only two in existance. There are others out there, and it is likely, Morrigan figured that your warden would do the practical thing and locate others of their order while trying to find allies for the Blight. Morrigans tells you in Witch Hunt that she was not expecting the AD to show itself so soon, and knew she had to act with what little she had, it was now or never. So yes, Morrigan had intended to do the ritual from the time she left Flemmeths, it was of very high importance.to her. As far as Alistair went, Morrigan left with the belief that the problem of only two Wardens in Ferelden would be one that would be fixed, one way or another. So she felt to particular need to behave kindly towards Alistair, a person she held with utter contempt. She saw no need to.

Ah. I haven't played Witch Hunt often or recently; I should have another go at it. So thanks for setting me straight! Understanding her better certainly colors my view of Morrigan, and not for the better...

~tsm

[Last Darkness]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Last Darkness wrote...

Thanks for the clarification.

Side note theres something unique still about Morrigan being pregnant since as stated by David Gaider "Wardens can not have children except by magical means"

Also the point still stands, How does Flemeth know a Working Ritual to place a Old God into a Unborn child?
I doubt "She just made it up" or it was a Writers Convience.

No, the statement was regarding two wardens having children together as being impossible, except through magical means. One warden and a non Warden, however, is different. it's difficult, as the fertility of the warden is quite low, but is not impossible, as the Warden is not completely sterile on their own. With a non-tainted person of normal fertility (which Morrigan is) it is possible, though uncommon, trhough "natural" means.

Oh my mistake then, I thought they were completly infertile. Thanks for clearning that up.

[Jedimaster88]

In case you dont know, there was supposed to be a scene, which was cut, right after Riordan tells the shocking truth. There has been a short comic made of this scene. I dont remember exactly how it goes but its something like this. Morrigan asks Alistair if they are waiting for the orlesian wardens and he mentions something that there is no time. Then Morrigan asks if Alistair loves the fem warden and then asks something like if by doing something terrible would save a friend, would he do it. Alistair says something like they need all the help they can get and after that morrigan starts to cry.

I suspect she was hoping there would be other wardens, with who she could do the ritual with. The female warden can be her only friend and I imagine sleeping with the man she loves, might do some serious damage to their friendship even if it is meant only to save their lives and there is no other way, but because the situation is what it is, she has to use what she can whether she likes it or not. She even mentions in witch hunt that she had no choice.

However if I remember right, this scene was also supposed to happen originally if morrigan was in love with a male warden. Im not sure why she would cry then. I doubt she has any trouble to do the ritual with the man she loves. She even mentions it if you pick the right dialogue option, that she is glad to make this offer for him after all they have meant to each other. Maybe its because it can have some affect for the wardens life later or its simply about that she has to leave him.

Its a real shame this scene didnt make it to the final release. Someone said, dont remember who, that this scene might have changed many peoples thoughts about the ritual.

Modifié par Jedimaster88, 26 juillet 2011 - 09:23 .

[Monica21]

theskymoves wrote...
Ah. I haven't played Witch Hunt often or recently; I should have another go at it. So thanks for setting me straight! Understanding her better certainly colors my view of Morrigan, and not for the better...

~tsm

Morrigan isn't with you for entirely selfless reasons, but you know that. She tells you relatively early on that "power has meaning." That never changes. If you're her friend she also tells you that she may not always deserve your friendship but she will always cherish it. I assume this is a reference to her knowing what she'll ask. And I also assume that if she's in a romantic relationship she says something similar to a male Warden.

Nothing really should be all that surprising or disappointing when dealing with her.

[Last Darkness]

Jedimaster88 wrote...

In case you dont know, there was supposed to be a scene, which was cut, right after Riordan tells the shocking truth. There has been a short comic made of this scene. I dont remember exactly how it goes but its something like this. Morrigan asks Alistair if they are waiting for the orlesian wardens and he mentions something that there is no time. Then Morrigan asks if Alistair loves the fem warden and then asks something like if by doing something terrible would save a friend, would he do it. Alistair says something like they need all the help they can get and after that morrigan starts to cry.

I suspect she was hoping there would be other wardens, with who she could do the ritual with. The female warden can be her only friend and I imagine sleeping with the man she loves, might do some serious damage to their friendship even if it is meant only to save their lives and there is no other way, but because the situation is what it is, she has to use what she can whether she likes it or not. She even mentions in witch hunt that she had no choice.

However if I remember right, this scene was also supposed to happen originally if morrigan was in love with a male warden. Im not sure why she would cry then. I doubt she has any trouble to do the ritual with the man she loves. She even mentions it if you pick the right dialogue option, that she is glad to make this offer for him after all they have meant to each other. Maybe its because it can have some affect for the wardens life later or its simply about that she has to leave him.

Its a real shame this scene didnt make it to the final release. Someone said, dont remember who, that this scene might have changed many peoples thoughts about the ritual.

Done by Aimo
blog.bioware.com/2010/03/01/dragon-age-the-revelation-comic/

She did more.
aimostudio.com/comics/fancomic/index.html#da