70 réponses à ce sujet

[Chromie]

A-K-M wrote...

Those darn muslims are at it again! oh wait...

The deathtoll reaches 91. RIP

I don't care for Chrisitans or Catholics myself.


Oh look people played with the bomber in WoW actually. Ironically his name is Anders like a certain mage 

kotaku.com/5824082/online-gaming-friends-of-oslo-suspect-say-he-couldnt-harm-a-fly

Modifié par Ringo12, 23 juillet 2011 - 04:13 .

[HoonDing]

Ringo12 wrote...

I don't care for Chrisitans or Catholics myself.

This just in: Protestants & Catholics are all Christians.

[Chromie]

virumor wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...

I don't care for Chrisitans or Catholics myself.

This just in: Protestants & Catholics are all Christians.

Is this gonna turn into a tread about religion? 

[KenKenpachi]

Well apperantly the Shootng can be laid at his feet, but no word on the Bombing. Be Ironic if two people piccked that day for a killing. Plus how Brazen he was with the shooting and creative in a manner doesn't fit the happenings with the bombing.

http://www.reuters.c...E76M25C20110723
 
Not that I support his Actions just takes a praticular type of Crazy to dress as a cop and lure people out to murder them. Like a Modern Jack the Ripper. But he hasn't been connected with the bombing as of yet.

In any case to the Gun issue, you have things called the Black Market, where people can buy illegal weaponry, and they are any place where there are people, the Black Market economy is nearly as large as the legitimate one, if you can name it, it can be bought anywhere for a price. Or hell you can just BUILD a gun. Its not all that hard. And also be happy that he didn't have a degree in chemistry. With things found on the cleaning Isle at Walmart, some book smarts and a lab of some sort, the same way and things others use to make meth and drugs can be used to make mustard and chlorine gas rather easily. And with much more devistating resutls. You can't really prevent events like this from happening, hell shanks in prison which are used to kill fellow inmates are often made from plastic spoons and tooth brushes.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 23 juillet 2011 - 04:40 .

[Cailean]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Well apperantly the Shootng can be laid at his feet, but no word on the Bombing. Be Ironic if two people piccked that day for a killing. Plus how Brazen he was with the shooting and creative in a manner doesn't fit the happenings with the bombing.

http://www.reuters.c...E76M25C20110723
 
Not that I support his Actions just takes a praticular type of Crazy to dress as a cop and lure people out to murder them. Like a Modern Jack the Ripper. But he hasn't been connected with the bombing as of yet.

In any case to the Gun issue, you have things called the Black Market, where people can buy illegal weaponry, and they are any place where there are people, the Black Market economy is nearly as large as the legitimate one, if you can name it, it can be bought anywhere for a price. Or hell you can just BUILD a gun. Its not all that hard. And also be happy that he didn't have a degree in chemistry. With things found on the cleaning Isle at Walmart, some book smarts and a lab of some sort, the same way and things others use to make meth and drugs can be used to make mustard and chlorine gas rather easily. And with much more devistating resutls. You can't really prevent events like this from happening, hell shanks in prison which are used to kill fellow inmates are often made from plastic spoons and tooth brushes.

I'm sorry, but what are you actually trying to say with your post? He already confessed to the police anyways.

[KenKenpachi]

On one count I'm saying if you want someone dead there are many more ways to do it than guns, which even if they are outlawed can still be found or built easily. On the other I'm saying, that it doesn't match with the bombing never mind both happend around the same time. And a gun isn't nearly as deadly as half the **** you can pick up at any store. And also even if you confessed to anything doesn't mean you did it.

The Taliban for Example claim to shoot down all planes that Crash in Afghanistan, but the bulk of them crash from mechanical failure in the harsh enviroment. Namely due to the Thin air around central Afghanistan. I mean here we got a guy that spent hours shooting kids while dressed as a cop, lurring them out, and then at the same time he blows up a building? doesn't fit the MO. Most Criminals stick to one praticular brand of Crazy. But of course it might have been him as he says, but I won't take it at face value till he says "how" he did it. And that matchs up with Data gatherd from his person and the region of the attack. Besides we don't even know the grade of the explosive device used. How much what sort, if he was alone, if it was even him. Could be C4 Could be a truck rental packed with gasoline and fertilizer. Alot of missing Data is yet to be filled.

As to why that last part matters. Any idiot can get the componets for a truck bomb like used in the Oklahoma City Bombing, which was the actions of two men only. Military grade explosives short of Hand Gernades are rather pricey, and he doesn't seem the sort to have alot of money which means another party was envolved. Do you want a witch hunt or Justice?

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 23 juillet 2011 - 05:10 .

[Cailean]

True. However, there are pictures of him on the island. Here is one:

http://images2-teleg...ijk_873639i.jpg

However, the shooting happened 2 hours after the bombs went of. He probably rigged them to explode at a certain time, so that gave him enough time to get to the island. However, if you tell some people to gather around you, and start shooting at them with an automatic gun... shocked people make easy targets as well.

Modifié par Cailean, 23 juillet 2011 - 05:14 .

[Swordfishtrombone]

^ Well, one piece of evidence that does strongly suggest that the gunman is the bomber is that he owns a company growing vegetables and thus could buy fertilizer without arousing suspicion. He bought 6 tons of the stuff shortly before the bombing.

Add that to the fact of the timing of these events, which seems to suggest co-ordination. As far as I know, there currently isn't any evidence of anyone working with this guy.

The temptation of seeing a large scale conspiracy behind events such as these (and assasinations of famous figures), has probably to do with a psychological self-perservation mechanism we have. We are uncomfortable when we are subjected to threats that we have no control over, and that are unpredictable - the thought of a lone gunman, or lone terrorist, hatching and executing a plan to murder either someone famous that we all know, or a large number of people, suggests that such a thing can happen to anyone, without us having much ability to foresee or stop such events.

That is an uncomfortable thought - it is much more atractive to see such attacks as a result of a larger scale conspiracy to commit them, a conspiracy that could have been caught were it not for the blindness of the authorities to the conspiracy. However, sometimes lone nuts DO come out of the woodworks, and through long planning or luck, or a combination of both, manage to do something that has a tremendous impact on society, or history. This is a fact we have to live with.

[KenKenpachi]

Yeah but the question remains even if its the case how? Where did he get the money and weapons. Nevermind the bomb.

http://en.wikipedia....ilian_ownership

Though not hard to get a gun in Norway as some places, it seems its not easy. Nor is it a political issue there, but I notice there was a note on thefts from Military Storage centers. Which is the only way he could have gotten an automatic, which in the case of a handgun doesn't mean the same as a rifle.In which case Auto and Semi auto fire are HELL of a world Apart. For example take TWO AK's Make one an Auto self build, or a class 3 purchase, and it can shoot at 600 rounds per min. Versus the Semi's 70-120.

So the case is given cops already had a note on him, I find it unlikely he had a gun legally, which makes the laws a mute point. As only the Just fallow the Law. The Unjust and criminal will always break it.

Make no mistake its no conspircy with me, I'ld rather it was invistigated properly, and not turned into a witch trial, you have to know with reasonable proof he did as he said. Or else the other parties (if there are any at all.*) will walk free and able to do this again. In the pursuit of truth and justice you shouldn't let personal feelings get in the way. Yes he killed people, but was it him alone? If so, well and good, but if its not? You have to be sure, a guy showing up and saying it was me doesn't always cut it. You do have Copy Cat Criminals after all. And the German that was mentioned is a character of concern, cow **** packs a punch. But of course it very well could be the actions of one man seeking to make a point that makes sense maybe to only him at least. Better safe that sorry in any case.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 23 juillet 2011 - 05:27 .

[Lord Phoebus]

Last I heard, the death toll is up to 92; 7 from the bombing and 85 from the shooting. 85 dead in a single lone gunman shooting spree has to be some kind of record. You rarely hear of more than 20 being taken down in an incident like this. For what it's worth, my sympathies to anyone who lost family or friends in the attacks.

That said if it was the work of an individual who didn't communicate his plans with anyone, there really isn't anything that can be done to stop him or prevent something like this from happening again. I suppose if there were armed law enforcement individuals on the island, he might have been taken down before he did so much damage, but I think I would rather have the occasional spree shooting than live in a world with armed guards everywhere people assembled (and pay the taxes for that increased protection).

[Swordfishtrombone]

Of course it is very important to investigate whether he acted alone - but knowing the history of big incidents such as this, should a thorough police investigation find that he acted alone, a certain number of people will not accept that result, and will go on to create the most elaborate conspiracy theories that probably involve the authorities covering it all up.

The police are professional though, and I do believe they'll do a thorough and good job at finding out the details, such as where the man obtained the weapons.

As for where he got the money - he IS a business owner. That does suggest that he's not without financial means. He clearly knew that he would either be killed or caught in the end, and that in any case his life as a free man would be over - in such a circumstance I doubt he would have had any problem making use of all his assets without the worry of future financial survival.

I'm not familiarized enough with the gun laws in Norway, nor the gun club he belonged to, to say what weapons he could, or could not have obtained legally. All that will undoubtedly become more clear as the investigation proceeds.

[KenKenpachi]

Wait 85 from the shooting...and one Man did that? I don't buy that at all. Not even trained military Soldiers have came that close in one short engagement. Hell even in forgive the term but "target Rich enviroments" such as schools with a hell lot more people around and alot more shots fired kill counts never came that close. So like what this skinhead, is Norway's version of Davy Crockett? And more importantly is the fact there are all dead, normally when a Civies goes on a rampage or with help you find a **** load more wounded. Maybe I'm just being paranoid. But thats some mighty damn fine shooting, and ****** poor bombing.

[KnightofPhoenix]

There seems to be reports that at least two gunmen were involved:
http://en.rian.ru/wo.../165350450.html

Not sure about the source though.

[Costin_Razvan]

The worst thing is that I saw someone idiot make a tribute for him on Youtube? Just seriously?

Guy goes on a killing spree for some stupid reason ( there is always a reason ) and people condone that ****?

[Ulous]

As bad as this is i've seen no mention on the news about the 36,000 plus children that are and have died of starvation today.

[Lord Phoebus]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Wait 85 from the shooting...and one Man did that? I don't buy that at all. Not even trained military Soldiers have came that close in one short engagement. Hell even in forgive the term but "target Rich enviroments" such as schools with a hell lot more people around and alot more shots fired kill counts never came that close. So like what this skinhead, is Norway's version of Davy Crockett? And more importantly is the fact there are all dead, normally when a Civies goes on a rampage or with help you find a **** load more wounded. Maybe I'm just being paranoid. But thats some mighty damn fine shooting, and ****** poor bombing.

Those are the reports I heard on the BBC, which is what shocked me more than the act itself.  Seems like he was the only one with a gun on the island, that probably gave him some time and slowed the response of medical services.  Hollow points, fragmenting rounds and/or other antipersonel ammo might have upped the lethality of those gun shots as well, but that's just speculation.

Modifié par Lord Phoebus, 23 juillet 2011 - 06:02 .

[Druss99]

KenKenpachi wrote...

Wait 85 from the shooting...and one Man did that? I don't buy that at all. Not even trained military Soldiers have came that close in one short engagement. Hell even in forgive the term but "target Rich enviroments" such as schools with a hell lot more people around and alot more shots fired kill counts never came that close. So like what this skinhead, is Norway's version of Davy Crockett? And more importantly is the fact there are all dead, normally when a Civies goes on a rampage or with help you find a **** load more wounded. Maybe I'm just being paranoid. But thats some mighty damn fine shooting, and ****** poor bombing.

Thats what I was thinking too. It was an entire island so getting people clustered together for long enough would have been difficult I'd imagine, unless there was some very specific circumstances. Then theres the fact that he would have had to reload or switch weapon atleast once and theres no way every shot he fired would have hit or been fatal. The only thing is that alot of them jumped into the water in an attempt to swim to safety, he could conceivably have picked alot of them off then. It still strikes me as a tall order for a lone gunman though. Theres still alot of questions though like how he was armed, the set up of the island(where everyone was when he opened fire) and how long it took for help to get there after the shooting started.

The worst part is that incidents like this can kick off a series of counter-attacks or inspire other extremists into action. Hopefully it was just a one off but often times its not.

I don't see why the news report had to mention what games he plays and what books he reads.

Modifié par Druss99, 23 juillet 2011 - 06:00 .

[KenKenpachi]

KoP Yeah I just seen on another Link where a 2nd man has been taken in connection.

Ulous as the old saying goes "One mans terrorist is anothers Freedom Fighter." Even Hitler has his Fans. And I do wonder what his reasons are, may just be good old fashion racial purity or some such bs. And apperantly he was a member of the community while tagged as a radical, also in good standing, member of a gun club, and he had his own buisness.

Which other posters said, which means this attack was most likely on purely idelogical grounds. As he had Money, Ego, in the form of standing, and he willing did it meaning he wasn't forced or tricked. Questions is why, Fact he dressed as a cop may be a sign of what. I suspect it has more to do with ****sm than being Conservitive, actully pretty damn sure.

And LP I will agree those Ammo types can help out, but unless they stuck up like ducks on the target range, there had to be at least two or more people. I would suspect four myself. With the one who stayed behind as a "spokesman". And the other things Druss just pointed out are Valid. Unless he had more men, or alot of clips, I'll tell you its a pain in the ass to reload a magazine real fast. As to books and games, just typical we need to control your life more BS... hell maybe thats the point in all of this all along. Never know.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 23 juillet 2011 - 06:23 .

[Volus Warlord]

 I'm no expert but I'll bet that drowning took as many victims as gunshots. They'd nowhere to go but the sea..

[Cailean]

KenKenpachi wrote...

KoP Yeah I just seen on another Link where a 2nd man has been taken in connection.

Ulous as the old saying goes "One mans terrorist is anothers Freedom Fighter." Even Hitler has his Fans. And I do wonder what his reasons are, may just be good old fashion racial purity or some such bs. And apperantly he was a member of the community while tagged as a radical, also in good standing, member of a gun club, and he had his own buisness.

Which other posters said, which means this attack was most likely on purely idelogical grounds. As he had Money, Ego, in the form of standing, and he willing did it meaning he wasn't forced or tricked. Questions is why, Fact he dressed as a cop may be a sign of what. I suspect it has more to do with ****sm than being Conservitive, actully pretty damn sure.

And LP I will agree those Ammo types can help out, but unless they stuck up like ducks on the target range, there had to be at least two or more people. I would suspect four myself. With the one who stayed behind as a "spokesman". And the other things Druss just pointed out are Valid. Unless he had more men, or alot of clips, I'll tell you its a pain in the ass to reload a magazine real fast. As to books and games, just typical we need to control your life more BS... hell maybe thats the point in all of this all along. Never know.

Well, he is probably fan of far-right policies, as he targeted a island which is property of the social-democrats. He also targetted (Well, I think he did, it was at least pretty close) the place where prime minister works, which is also a social-democrat. However, I agree it is very likely there were more gunsman. Eyewitnesses reported another man shooting as well. However, remember it was a island, so there was no way you could just run away, and it was filled with 14 to 17 year olds... People that age are an easier target than adults.

Modifié par Cailean, 23 juillet 2011 - 06:35 .

[KenKenpachi]

I know some conservitives that hate pork spening but have no desire to kill an island full of kids. And I can't say many others at least State side US conservitive policies either. Those that do I would Hazard lumping with the typical right wing. Just as I would Hazard lumping most leftist and liberals with Che Guevara because they wan't social services doesn't mean they want to kill all the land owners and throw them in the sea.


Right = ****, no more than Left = Communist.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 23 juillet 2011 - 06:38 .

[Cailean]

I'm no fan of the right wing, but I wont massacre a sh¡tload of people just because of that. That guy is a psychopath (you can see it in his face too. Cold eyes, contempt, etc.). It doesn't matter whether he's right wing, left wing, a christian or whatever, he should be locked up for the rest of his life.

However, extremism is never good. History has proven that countless times.

Modifié par Cailean, 23 juillet 2011 - 06:44 .

[KenKenpachi]

Meh I'ld just as soon shoot him. Solves the problem for good. And wow so I won't the only one that seen his picture and went "Holy **** he looks like a James Bond Villian"? Because totally what I was thinking. And I'm sure to him he thinks he did his part in some Bull**** racial struggle as I'm still running that this is what this is all about.

But yeah he totally looks like the German bad guy on Die Hard. The one with the long hair. In any case even if its BS reasons he's "fighting" for or anyone for that matter, kids are never a target. Unless actively fighting you, never. The Government bombing, that was legitimate, but the camp shooting, even though he should pay for both, the later is worthy cause to fry. Him and all others that helped him if that is the case.

[Volus Warlord]

If it was a racial struggle why would he kill those of his own race..? He'd be after those of "impure" ones first..

It seems more politically motivated than anything. His actions were an attempt to use violence to influence politics.

[Cailean]

Shooting would be to quick in my opinion. If he was to suffer a very slow and painful dead, then I would approve of it. However, being stuck in some hole with barely enough space to breath (unless the Norwegian prisons are like 3 star hotels) for the rest of your life is awful as well.

He does kinda look like that guy in Die Hard, yeah. However, there is never an excuse to murder civilians just to spread your message. He could have used the internet, or maybe a self-made newspaper, but slaughtering people is never the answer.