388 réponses à ce sujet

[Dominus]

Sorry it took so long to respond, lucos - I somehow missed it. I was just pointing out some of the more popular metal bands on the radio as a point of reference. What it comes down to is what marshall put well enough:

The problem is too many imitators and followers, and not enough pioneers. But this is true of any creative process.

Some of the newer bands do sound better than some of the older ones. But as I said previously, it's not pushing the envelope enough to sound completely different from something I've heard before.

As far as genre, most of it tends to go into the thrash direction: Megadeth, Anthrax, Metallica. Speaking of metal pioneers, I also enjoy quite a bit of the more macabre-styled metal of king diamond.

Having said that, I'm pretty open to all types of the genre. If you can bang your head to it, I'll probably give it a go.

Maybe you don't like these genres, that's possible, but then "the problem" lies with you, not with today's music.

I'm hardly a metal hipster, modern metal isn't necessarily in this horrible pit of despair(then again, that sounds like where metal in general is supposed to be, Or perhaps resting atop a mountain of skulls). I'm saying relatively speaking, it's just isn't quite enough for me to be frothing from the mouth for more.

[weedyfun]

I saw Rammstein live this year.. f-ing amazing! i'd sell my left ****** to see them again.

[marshalleck]

Alright how about some Vintersorg:

För Kung Och Fosterland (with a little bit of Grieg!)
Till Fjälls
Isjungfrun

Guy has some good chops and quite the vocal talent. He's the vocalist for Borknagar.

Modifié par marshalleck, 29 septembre 2011 - 01:14 .

[IronSabbath88]

I still think one of the best newer black metal bands that doesn't get enough recognition is Watain. They make some really good stuff.

[IronSabbath88]

Here are some of my recommendations for bands people might not know and end up liking here.

Arafel (Israeli folk/death band with the former Equilibrium vocalist on vocals, he SLAYS)

Wulfgar (Sound a lot like Amon Amarth, crushing European death metal with Norse mythology themes)

Stormlord (Symphonic Black metal done properly)

[Tommyspa]

Luc0s wrote...

I can understand how death metal can be described as "crushing". Perhaps black metal can be "crushing" too. But when I listen to doom metal I don't think about "crushing". I think about despair, lonelyness, darkness, but really mostly despair.

Aye, I should imply soul crushing despair, opposed to bone crushing heavy. Though I get the bone crushing heavy from bands like The Contortionist or After The Burial or Veil Of Maya, opposed to Black/Death like Necrophagist or Opeth or token trem picking black metal band. Differnent ways to crush the same ****.

[Tommyspa]

Luc0s wrote...

Tommyspa wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

I can understand how death metal can be described as "crushing". Perhaps black metal can be "crushing" too. But when I listen to doom metal I don't think about "crushing". I think about despair, lonelyness, darkness, but really mostly despair.

Aye, I should imply soul crushing despair, opposed to bone crushing heavy. Though I get the bone crushing heavy from bands like The Contortionist or After The Burial or Veil Of Maya, opposed to Black/Death like Necrophagist or Opeth or token trem picking black metal band. Differnent ways to crush the same ****.

What you just summed up is mostly deathcore right? I'm not a  big fan of deathcore.

To me, bone crushing music sounds like this: 

I think Torture Division (link above) is the very definition of bone-crushing, ego-stomping, face-destroying, @ss-raping hardcore heavy f*cking death metal.


Edit: Torture Division is really anti-Christian, so don't listen to it if you can't handle extremely anti-religious songs.

Hmm, lyrical themes are important to me, definately not in Deathcore, it's just as bad as death metal, if not slighly dumber. Though with gems like  this lyrically, I will ignore every deathcore bands lyrics ever, most death metal too, anti-christian or stupidly violent lyrics are just so amateur-y and lazy. With the exceptions of things like this.

"Welcome to the horror of the revelation. Tell me what you think of your savior now. I reject all the biblical views of the truth dismiss it as the folklore of the times. I won't be force fed prophecies from a book of untruths for the weakest mind. I keep the bible in a pool of blood so that none of its lies can affect me" - Slayer

and

"My loyalty towards a liar ceased to exist. Once misled by an empty fraudulent face, I will never turn my back on you and deceive the flesh of our race. I will always speak truly so you can understand. No riddles that manipulate the words and symbols of man. Do not believe false promises conspiring to cover up the truth, find solace in darkness within yourself and have your legions unleashed."  - Dimmu Borgir

To keep it short about that. Deathcore is just letting your balls being pounded by notes in the B-F range, if you know about down-tuning guitars, otherwise that doesn't mean anything, where is most death/black is around Standard E to about C# (generally speaking of course.) Percussion and bass is key really when it comes to DC, you know breakdowns and all, its usually meh defining trait.

Doom on the other hand has some of the most well thought out lyrics among bands out there, save for bands in Folk or Alternative music, ones who do it without the mass intention of being Oasis or Bob Dylan-like. Notably Doom is incredibly unpopular and not understood in comparison.

Quick lyrical examples, feel free to ignore if uninterested. Mourning Beloveth "The Words That Crawled" the second and third verse are absurdly good. And this one by the same band. And there is Chalice, if you like really feminine power vocals. But it's pretty goth doom. A rarity to find anything exceptional in that genre that isn't about how I mourned my lover's death as I held her pale white flesh against my naked for no reason body.

Edit: the Mourning Beloveth lyrics are slighlty inaccurate as to what is actually said, but no where online has the correct, not even the sodding band's website.

Modifié par Tommyspa, 30 septembre 2011 - 12:53 .

[Tommyspa]

Luc0s wrote...

So you hate deathcore, yet you listen to it? Or why else did you list deathcore bands in your previous post?

I hate deathcore by the way, if that wasn't clear already in my previous post.

Nope, the structure of Deathcore in those examples are vastly superior to... triplets, power chords to trem picking off those power chords and then a chorus, as in most death metal, easier to say just better metal, but these genre names cause such angst. However in general, picking a few examples that break the mold do not exactly get rid of such strongly held stereotypes built on by whatever someone has been exposed  to, because yes 90 percent of DC blows pretty bad, like 90 percent off all music in general. I am ok with that though. I’m not speaking  exclusively to whoever you like or do not like, just simply a fast majority, like saying RPGer‘s aren‘t picking about their games and immersion, everyone whoever talks about it has some definition of it.

Luc0s wrote...
Also, the lyrics of Slayer you posted later (in this same post) is also anti-Christian, yet you posted it because you think they are good lyrics? Can you explain that?

Tommyspa wrote...

I will ignore every deathcore bands lyrics ever, most death metal too, anti-christian or stupidly violent lyrics are just so amateur-y and lazy. With the exceptions of things like this."

That explains that part doesn't it?

Luc0s wrote...

I'm a guitarist myself and I play in a black metal band (with some death metal influence). So I know quite a lot about guitars in metal. So I also know you're wrong. Most death metal is written in open-B or open-C. Black metal is also often open-B or open-C. Metal bands in general very rarely use the standard E tuning.

We often play in open-B, some songs are in open-C, and (as I said), we play black metal mostly.

Allow me to make a list of bands that played in E Standard, until down tuning later. Most old metal is all in E.
1349
Ragnarok
Moonsorrow
Ensiferum
Equilibrium
Opeth
Celtic Frost
Dimmu Borgir
Immortal (in D as well)
Obituary

But most are usually in D Standard.
Death
Children of Bodom
Decapitated
Norther
Vader
Early-ish Behemoth before 7 strings in A
The Red Chord
Dream Theater (A on 7 String)
Wintersun
Testament
Decrepit Birth
Kreator

All respected bands in Metal, yes?

And as far as Open tunings being used, I never implied that all use standard tunings, but really all bands that tour and are remotely successful in metal use standard tunings. Exception of Devin Townsend, Mr. Open C, and a few rare songs by other bands. Possibly some very underground Black, which might be what you are referring to. I only can speak for the bands that jump out as respected black metal acts.

Luc0s wrote...

Black metal and death metal have really deep lyrics too. If you think doom is deeper than death or black (lyrics-wise) than you're sadly mistaken. Sure, Torture Division (the band from my previous post) is not a good example of deep lyrics. Want some actual death metal with good lyrics? Here ya go:
*snip*

Pointing out that some good death metal bands have good lyrics doesn't excuse bands like Cannibal Corpse and Cradle of Filth and the other 90 percent of bands like them. (Funny however that The Faceless are deathcore as hell, really just listen to “Leica“ there is no way that song is not deathcore. Well, specifically Sumerian-Core, which is the sub-genre of deathcore that isn't complete crap marked by technical riffs and soaring leads and then breakdowns, also call it technical death mixed with metalcore. Brought up from the style of DC Sumerian Records signs, like Veil Of Maya, After The Burial, Periphery, The Faceless, Born of Osiris, and so on.)

Anyway if you stretched that to mean all bands in a given genre, you're being over presumptuous, and trying too hard to find fault where there really isn't any overt need to. Because 90 percent of all music sucks.

Pardon me if this comes off messy. Proof reading for tone and clarity wasn't of high importance.

Modifié par Tommyspa, 30 septembre 2011 - 11:27 .

[IronSabbath88]

Ughhh.. can we try to excuse Cannibal Corpse when discussing death metal? They're such a black eye on death metal imo.

I know they're way popular but it's fashionable to like them. The music they make is downright awful. There's a reason I prefer European bands like Bolt Thrower and At The Gates over American stuff.

[Tommyspa]

Luc0s wrote...

Nope it doesn't really... Maybe I'm just stupid but I still don't see why you bashed on anti-Christian lyrics earlier and then give an anti-Christian example of what you consider to be good lyrics. Besides, Slayer isn't really that good lyrics-wise. Their lyrics are often satire.

Hmm maybe, but I was pointing out that there were good exceptions, like you did in your post about death metal lyrics, it was simply that, most however can be quite laughable.

Luc0s wrote...

Ow please don't even mention Cannibal Corpse and Cradle of Filth. Everyone knows they're complete sellouts and extremely crappy. Please, NEVER EVER mention those bands among true metal fans EVER again, okay? 

Damnation! I thought it was a fair move... Trust me I am fully aware of the **** it really is, it was merely for illustrative purposes only I swear, I have done a fair share of Cannibal Corpse fan bashing in my day.

Luc0s wrote...

Nope, The Faceless is technical death metal first and foremost. Their lyrical themes, vocals and excessive use of blast-beats are much more death metal-like than deathcore-like.

Sure, Leica has some deathcore influences, but listen to their other songs, like: Coldly Calculated Design, Xenochrist and The Ancient Covenant, or pretty much every single song on their album Planetary Duality, it's as death metal as technical death metal goes.

I love me some tech death, but tech death and DC are truly very close when you get to the bands who play it in low tunings, like Beneath the Massacre, that band has some decent death metal lyrics ridiculous ****** for its tech deathiness on guitar and then accompaning breakdowns, to define it as DC. Still very Tech Death. I might be more liberal with the DC label however. BtM is mostly Death Metal and Tech. But I still consider it DC. Hmm, it might be a heaviness thing as well as I label them that too. Example. (I couldn't find a non-live version of the song Anomic, otherwise I would have posted that one.)

Luc0s wrote...

The Faceless isn't technical death mixed with metalcore (I hate metalcore), it's just technical death metal.

And from all the bands you listed I only like The Faceless and Born of Osiris (yes, Born of Osiris actually is deathcore, but extremely good deathcore).

I propose we disagree, I hear a lot of metalcore in that band, well from the melodic death/technical death version of metalcore, like Between The Buried and Me and Arsis and The Human Abstract. Anyway I gotta do this from when you first started this thread. DC to the end! lol.

Luc0s wrote...

I'm sure that if you dig yourself more into death and black you'll find lots of high-quality bands that you currently haven't heard of. You can't judge an entire music genre on a few popular bands from that specific genre, especially not if those popular bands are crappy sellouts.

I'm not a large fan of death and black, in their base forms (sub-genres sure, but of only death metal) I cannot connect with black metal at all anymore. A few years ago I was pretty heavy into it but it slopped off pretty hard. I have been beaten to death with it. So it wasn't not a lack of exposure it was simply over-exposure turned to disinterest. And playing and writing guitar in itself has shaped the way I think about listening to songs, I crave technical rhythm guitar, explorative chord usage to make riffs I've never heard before, great pedal tones, and then polyrhythms. Thus why I appreciate the unique DC where I can find it.

I have a challenge for you Luc0s! Try to tackle Hans Reichel and his instrument of rape noise the daxophone (truly there is no real way to describe it other than something really offensive). He starts out on it a few minutes in (you'll be able to tell) Trust me you will know he is a deeply disturbed man, Sorry though he is not metal related, but he is darker than any metal band ever.

Modifié par Tommyspa, 02 octobre 2011 - 05:43 .

[ianmcdonald]

Less arguing and more headbanging.

[marshalleck]

**** deathcore

there's nothing that ticks me off more than hipsters playing at being hessian

kill yourself

Modifié par marshalleck, 02 octobre 2011 - 08:49 .

[Tommyspa]

I'll be waiting for this thread to be necroed again.

[Tommyspa]

Khanate - No Joy

[chunkyman]

 This is about the closest I get to metal. 

[Tommyspa]

chunkyman wrote...

 This is about the closest I get to metal. 

This is metal right?

[ianmcdonald]

Again, I fall on more of the punk/hardcore/crust side of things. This has to be one of my all-time favorite opening tracks.

Cursed - Polygraph

[Tommyspa]

Luc0s wrote...

 I just recently discovered this amazing doom metal band:

Swallow The Sun - Lights on The Lake

Great band. The albums Hope and Ghosts Of Loss are exceptional. I love the amount of layers they use during recording to create some truly great recorded tone. When "Gloom, Beauty and Despair" cuts in on its heavy part, it's one of their best moments.

Modifié par Tommyspa, 03 octobre 2011 - 10:14 .