146 réponses à ce sujet

[Feraele]

gamer_girl wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Here's a quote I just took off the internet ..was in the CBS thread under the announcement about Amy's demise.

-Quote ""All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated...As therefore the bell that rings to a sermon, calls not upon the preacher only, but upon the congregation to come: so this bell calls us all: but how much more me, who am brought so near the door by this sickness....No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee." - end quote

--John Donne


This pretty much sums up what I believe in and why I believe it's bad taste, bad karma..whathave you to look down upon, or be derisive or disrespectful ..to someone who has just recently deceased.

Too many folks feel they are SO much better and therefore ENTITLED to heap scorn on someone who isn't there to state the reasons why, and talk about their humanity.

I think this is shameful behaviour...to be quite honest.

People speak ill of the dead all the time. I have heard very few who respect Hitler since he died. Not to say she's anywhere even close to the league of disgusting acts as him, but really the only reason people are showing sympathy for her is because she's a celebrity. I show the same respect for people regardless of whether they're alive or not. Why should I respect Amy Winehouse in death if I never respected her in life?  <_<

Okay following that logic, why bother commenting at all, she's gone, she's none of your concern...just another throw-away human being to you..right?

I refuse to treat her that way, I still think there is more to this than the obvious ..oh look she's  a junky..thing going on.    

[gamer_girl]

Feraele wrote...

That is your assumption.  Not a point of being too dumb, a point of who you hang out with, who you party with, who gets you to try this stuff, and how quickly you become addicted.

Besides which people have hinted on the Net today..that drug overdose is not what she died from.    We'll know for sure once the autopsy report is allowed to be part of the news..if it ever is.    There are indications she had some sort of seizure evidently,  and a neighbour overheard some profuse weeping coming from Amy's home, now as to who it was that was weeping..that wasn't indicated.

I think instead of quick erroneous judgements, if you really care to find out, then pay attention to details as they are revealed.  If you don't care, if you don't give a damn...then why bother even being smug and sanctimonious...just leave the poor girl be?

That's a poor excuse. People are in control of what they do. Everybody is well aware of the risks of drugs, and you can't deny that to pursue them anyways despite the numerous warnings is a very stupid thing to do. And I'm sure a seizure goes part in parcel with a respectable way of dying doesn't it? Not likely.

Okay following that logic, why bother commenting at all, she's gone,
she's none of your concern...just another throw-away human being to
you..right?

I refuse to treat her that way, I still think there is more to this than the obvious ..oh look she's  a junky..thing going on.

Because I feel like expressing my opinion as you're trying to shame people for having one.

Modifié par gamer_girl, 24 juillet 2011 - 10:12 .

[Feraele]

Turnip Root wrote...

You know, I'm trying my hardest to give a damn about this woman being dead but despite my best efforts I still can't.

I don't think you're trying at all..   

[Feraele]

gamer_girl wrote...

Feraele wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

If Amy Winehouse died of a drug overdose, that's a shame, but it's not a tragedy. It's a shame that she got addicted to drugs in the first place, and never had the strength to overcome her addiction. But lots of people waste their lives in this way, she just happened to have enough talent and charisma to capture the public's imagination for awhile. The real tragedy is that impressionable young people might look at her lifestyle choices as "cool" and think that it's something to emulate. They'll die as young as she did, no doubt.

Seriously, of all the pitfalls and traps that life throws at us, drugs are one of the easiest to avoid. Don't start nothin' and there won't be nothin'. I don't know why it's so hard for people to realize that it's a terrible idea to take drugs.

Cigarettes too. It boggles my mind when I see young people smoking these days. Cigarettes steal your health, your youth, and eventually your life. They WILL kill you, if you smoke them for enough years. My mother has COPD after a lifetime of smoking, and she still chain smokes. She knows she needs to quit smoking if she wants to preserve what lung function she has. But will she? I don't know. I hope so. Her own father died of emphysema. But if she dies of emphysema too, it will be a crying shame, because it was 100% avoidable. I will be very sad if that happens.

Exactly this. People who are too dumb to realize the dangers of drugs or are too concerned with fitting in to realize it's a bad idea have it coming to them.

That is your assumption.  Not a point of being too dumb, a point of who you hang out with, who you party with, who gets you to try this stuff, and how quickly you become addicted.

Besides which people have hinted on the Net today..that drug overdose is not what she died from.    We'll know for sure once the autopsy report is allowed to be part of the news..if it ever is.    There are indications she had some sort of seizure evidently,  and a neighbour overheard some profuse weeping coming from Amy's home, now as to who it was that was weeping..that wasn't indicated.

I think instead of quick erroneous judgements, if you really care to find out, then pay attention to details as they are revealed.  If you don't care, if you don't give a damn...then why bother even being smug and sanctimonious...just leave the poor girl be?

That's a poor excuse. People are in control of what they do. Everybody is well aware of the risks of drugs, and you can't deny that to pursue them anyways despite the numerous warnings is a very stupid thing to do.

Again another assumption on your part.  If she was so in control, she wouldn't have been booed off the stage in Serbia, she would have told her managers no,   she probably did, there was some talk that she got pushed onto the stage anyway...by her managers, four of them.

She wasn't in control, the substances she imbibed, whatever they were..were in control, dictated her next moves, along with ..whatever NON-SUPPORT she received from the people she performed with.    Its not all cut and dried..there is more there than meets the eye.  

So no its not a poor excuse, unless you just refuse to look at it.

[Feraele]

gamer_girl wrote...

Feraele wrote...

That is your assumption.  Not a point of being too dumb, a point of who you hang out with, who you party with, who gets you to try this stuff, and how quickly you become addicted.

Besides which people have hinted on the Net today..that drug overdose is not what she died from.    We'll know for sure once the autopsy report is allowed to be part of the news..if it ever is.    There are indications she had some sort of seizure evidently,  and a neighbour overheard some profuse weeping coming from Amy's home, now as to who it was that was weeping..that wasn't indicated.

I think instead of quick erroneous judgements, if you really care to find out, then pay attention to details as they are revealed.  If you don't care, if you don't give a damn...then why bother even being smug and sanctimonious...just leave the poor girl be?

That's a poor excuse. People are in control of what they do. Everybody is well aware of the risks of drugs, and you can't deny that to pursue them anyways despite the numerous warnings is a very stupid thing to do. And I'm sure a seizure goes part in parcel with a respectable way of dying doesn't it? Not likely.

Okay following that logic, why bother commenting at all, she's gone,
she's none of your concern...just another throw-away human being to
you..right?

I refuse to treat her that way, I still think there is more to this than the obvious ..oh look she's  a junky..thing going on.

Because I feel like expressing my opinion as you're trying to shame people for having one.

Opinions are fine, coldness, scorn, disrespect, refusal to look further than one's own nose...isn't.

[gamer_girl]

Feraele wrote...

Again another assumption on your part.  If she was so in control, she wouldn't have been booed off the stage in Serbia, she would have told her managers no,   she probably did, there was some talk that she got pushed onto the stage anyway...by her managers, four of them.

She wasn't in control, the substances she imbibed, whatever they were..were in control, dictated her next moves, along with ..whatever NON-SUPPORT she received from the people she performed with.    Its not all cut and dried..there is more there than meets the eye.  

So no its not a poor excuse, unless you just refuse to look at it.

Clearly you don't understand the way drugs work. You have to physically put them inside you. Unless they magically grew legs and walked inside her mouth. If she had never tried them initially she could have sidestepped that life. Unless you found out that someone actually force fed them to her, that argument is bogus.

Opinions are fine, coldness, scorn, disrespect, refusal to look further than one's own nose...isn't.

Respect isn't something people are entitled to. It's something they have to earn. In my mind becoming a musical artist doesn't make up for being a druggie. I disrespect people who make stupid decisions. And trying drugs in the first place is most definitely a stupid decision. You can't dictate what I respect and disrespect. Just because she's dead doesn't make me respect her any more than I did when she was alive. Not to mention what Siansonea II said. Children are impressionable and if their favourite celebrity is a druggie, that's what they'll aspire to be.

Modifié par gamer_girl, 24 juillet 2011 - 10:18 .

[Feraele]

gamer_girl wrote...

Feraele wrote...

Again another assumption on your part.  If she was so in control, she wouldn't have been booed off the stage in Serbia, she would have told her managers no,   she probably did, there was some talk that she got pushed onto the stage anyway...by her managers, four of them.

She wasn't in control, the substances she imbibed, whatever they were..were in control, dictated her next moves, along with ..whatever NON-SUPPORT she received from the people she performed with.    Its not all cut and dried..there is more there than meets the eye.  

So no its not a poor excuse, unless you just refuse to look at it.

Clearly you don't understand the way drugs work. You have to physically put them inside you. Unless they magically grew legs and walked inside her mouth. If she had never tried them initially she could have sidestepped that life. Unless you found out that someone actually force fed them to her, that argument is bogus.

Opinions are fine, coldness, scorn, disrespect, refusal to look further than one's own nose...isn't.

Respect isn't something people are entitled to. It's something they have to earn. In my mind becoming a musical artist doesn't make up for being a druggie. I disrespect people who make stupid decisions. And trying drugs in the first place is most definitely a stupid decision. You can't dictate what I respect and disrespect. Just because she's dead doesn't make me respect her any more than I did when she was alive.

Noooooo really?  When did you discover this?    You going to edumacate us all on how to take drugs now?

I understand very well how drugs work.   But you are into the sanctimony and blame game, not interested at all in how this promising human being..had such a great fall, and died.     Its more important for you to point fingers and cast stones, as that somehow makes you better than her or anyone else that makes mistakes..that right?

I am going to keep track of the news, and I have a hunch that the truth will out.    Insiders stating that she didn't die from drug overdose, and the neighbour next door talked about someone profusely weeping ..mourning..during the wee hours of the morning.          

[gamer_girl]

Feraele wrote...

Noooooo really?  When did you discover this?    You going to edumacate us all on how to take drugs now?

I understand very well how drugs work.   But you are into the sanctimony and blame game, not interested at all in how this promising human being..had such a great fall, and died.     Its more important for you to point fingers and cast stones, as that somehow makes you better than her or anyone else that makes mistakes..that right?

I am going to keep track of the news, and I have a hunch that the truth will out.    Insiders stating that she didn't die from drug overdose, and the neighbour next door talked about someone profusely weeping ..mourning..during the wee hours of the morning.          

Mistakes are very different from horrible and life ruining decisions that are easily avoided. Getting a bad haircut is a mistake, ruining your life with drugs because you didn't listen to the warnings is a stupid choice. I'm not at all trying to make myself feel better. You're the one casting harsh judgement, I'm just seeing things like they are. I'm not saying Amy Winehouse wasn't a nice person, she very well could have been, but she made a very bad decision that most likely was what cost her her life. Do I respect her because of that? No. Nobody forced her into anything. I also never said that I was happy she was dead. I'm indifferent towards it actually. I see no point in mourning, nor do I see the point in being happy about her death.

Modifié par gamer_girl, 24 juillet 2011 - 10:32 .

[stewie1974]

another member of club 27.... so many music icons went at that age.. Keith Moon, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrision, Janis Joplin, Kurt Kobain ((murdered, I don't care what the official verdict is....)), Lead singer of the git's, Guitarist for Hole.... so many just go at that age...

I didn't care for Winehouse's music much myself, but she was a singer songwritter which is an ever decreasing breed.

Just to hit on a point that Gamer Girl made..... about personal choice... It's never as clear cut black and white as that. People with a compulsive nature often experiment in things and get hooked. Most creative people are fairly impulsive and suffer lots of disorders. Was she a junkie who wrote music, or a musician who took drugs?... Or was she just a person with a compulsion she couldn't control?.....

How the drugs got inside her... hate to say it... peer presure...don't forget, where there is a Junkie you will find a pusher not too far away... Nobody says "Oh hell today I think I'll experiement with herion" there is always someone that introduces the subject to the drugs, generally during a time a person is at their most receptive or depressed.

Weak will and an inability to say no... sure you can just say that's all it is... but let's face it, every one has personality defects, no one is perfect, and some people are more likely to fall into the drug trap than others. You may not be one of these people and are unable to understand the workings of such peoples minds, this immediately leads to labels ..... Junkies probablly don't -want- to be junkies, they never enter into the experimentation thinking they'll get hooked....

they just might not have the social skills or mental tools to prevent them falling into such traps, and they ARE traps.... pushers generally seek out junkies.... non drug addicts don't seek the pushers first.

[gamer_girl]

@stewie1974

That's only true if we assume she has a feebler mind. I see everyone as having equal capabilities, just some people don't embrace those abilities as much as others. Everybody has the ability to do decision making. It goes without saying that people know the very obvious cons that come with taking drugs, to act without recognizing those warnings is foolish. I don't care how much you're pressured into something. People have the ability to make decisions for themselves, and to say they don't is ridiculous. Believing that she was not able to make that decision for herself is along the same tangent as believing in fate. People have the ability to create their own life. People make their lives into what they want. She unfortunately chose a very bad path. That's her own fault nobody else's.

Modifié par gamer_girl, 24 juillet 2011 - 10:42 .

[stewie1974]

Yes it is foolish by the rationale of someone who is wired differently. People do have a predisposition to things, It can be

Genetic
Education
Society

It's nice to say we are all equal, and we -are- equal ,..... however , we all -think- differently and some of us are neurologically wired differently from others...either nurologically or physically....

After all I'm straight and there are gay men... how can that be so unless we are simply wired differently?

Drug addiction it's proven, some people just have a predesposition to it... some people can snort coke and not become addicts....it's no different from alcholisim....

[gamer_girl]

I don't know that people know the brain well enough to use neurology as a defense. Until there's sufficient knowledge about the brain, I don't know that something like that is entirely fair to say.

[stewie1974]

Yet they can map the gay impulse? Or is that just choice too? In which case the church can cure all..

I'm willing to stake my claim that people don't chose to become junkies in exactly the same way people don't chose to be gay. The predispoision to be addict or not addict is there after the first bite.

Not everyone who tries alcohol will become an alcholic
Not everyone who tries drugs will become a drug addict.

You need a predisposition to addiction to become one.

I've tried drugs and alcohol and I'm not addicted to either one. Therefore no one should be addicted to them.

Sure a drug addict will make the choice to -first- try a drug.... but at what age?, what circumstances, what social group, what external presures.... Sure if amy winehouse -started-taking drugs at 30 + years of age, that would be a foolish decision.

Chances are she started very young at a very niave age in a social group where it was the -norm-
And then it snowballed from there.

If she should have still said no, then statory rape is impossible if a girl says yes no matter how old she is, because she should still be using her big grown up brain. So ergo, statutory rape is the fault of the young impressionable girl and not the leachorous old man coearcing her into doing it.

Modifié par stewie1974, 24 juillet 2011 - 11:00 .

[gamer_girl]

Like I said, nothing was truly forced upon her, or anyone who takes drugs for that matter. Rape is a very bad comparison.

I've seen plenty of people in my school who take drugs. Would I do it just because they do? No, and other people should also have the audacity to be themselves instead of trying to conform to something that isn't them. I know what I want and a life full of bad health and an early death aren't on that list.

Modifié par gamer_girl, 24 juillet 2011 - 11:06 .

[Turnip Root]

Last I checked nobody forced her to become a drug addict so good riddance.  
Perhaps she will be more valuable to society as a corpse since her early death will serve as a warning of the dangers of drug abuse.

[stewie1974]

gamer_girl wrote...

Like I said, nothing was truly forced upon her, or anyone who takes drugs for that matter. Rape is a very bad comparison.

I've seen plenty of people in my school who take drugs. Would I do it just because they do? No, and other people should also have the audacity to be themselves instead of trying to conform to something that isn't them. I know what I want and a life full of bad health isn't on that list.

So if while at school, say at age 14, a couple of your friends were dating older guys and started having sex with them...that would -not- be statutory rape? , they -consented- even below the age of consent ....they have their grown up brain and are capable of making adult decisions and are just stupid and uncoerced?

Coercion (pronounced /koʊˈɜrʃən/) is the practice of using threats, rewards, intimidation, or any other incentive to affect another.

You don't have to use intimidation or threats to still get a result of statutory rape.....It is a good comparrision actually,  for coercion....because it acknowledges that coercion is actually a tool to force others to do the bidding..

the strong always prey on the weak....... and they don't have to use threats or intimidation to do it, they just have to promise young open succeptable minds....  Coercing a minor into the use of taking drugs, is no different than coercing a minor to have sex.... why do you think first time drug users are in their early teens?


This "nobody forced her" bull hockey is just willful ignorance.... It's like

"La de dah, Amy Winehouse went out one day and decided to actively seek a drug dealer and said -you know what, i'd like to be, I'd like to be a crack head and take lots of drugs-" .... Of course some one coearced her...

Modifié par stewie1974, 24 juillet 2011 - 11:12 .

[Turnip Root]

gamer_girl wrote...

Like I said, nothing was truly forced upon her, or anyone who takes drugs for that matter. Rape is a very bad comparison.

I've seen plenty of people in my school who take drugs. Would I do it just because they do? No, and other people should also have the audacity to be themselves instead of trying to conform to something that isn't them. I know what I want and a life full of bad health and an early death aren't on that list.

Yeah, I remember all those vermin back in high school who thought they were all cool taking drugs.  They thought they were such rebels, sticking it to the man and taking down the system.  To them, taking drugs was more than just about personal pleasure and escapism, it was revolutionary to them.

I cannot even begin to describe to you the level of satisfaction I feel that those same people are now suffering and have had their lives completely destroyed from their "revolutionary" behaviour.  I don't offer any solace over the fact that they started when they were young and stupid.  I knew better when I was younger and so should've they.
That pretentiousness, that arrogance.  That pathetic, audacious act of taking a destructive vice and white washing it as some sort of battle for freedom against tyranny...NONE OF THEM DESERVE TO LIVE!

May every day that they continue to exist bring upon them nothing but torment and living Hell with no means of escape other than death.  Let that sentiment ring true for every drug addict that infests this world today.

Modifié par Turnip Root, 24 juillet 2011 - 11:19 .

[stewie1974]

Turnip Root wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Like I said, nothing was truly forced upon her, or anyone who takes drugs for that matter. Rape is a very bad comparison.

I've seen plenty of people in my school who take drugs. Would I do it just because they do? No, and other people should also have the audacity to be themselves instead of trying to conform to something that isn't them. I know what I want and a life full of bad health and an early death aren't on that list.

Yeah, I remember all those vermin back in high school who thought they were all cool taking drugs.  They thought they were such rebels, sticking it to the man and taking down the system.  To them, taking drugs was more than just about personal pleasure and escapism, it was revolutionary to them.

I cannot even begin to describe to you the level of satisfaction I feel that those same people are now suffering and have had their lives completely destroyed from their "revolutionary" behaviour.  I don't offer any solace over the fact that they started when they were young and stupid.  I knew better when I was younger and so should've they.
That pretentiousness, that arrogance.  That pathetic, audacious act of taking a destructive vice and white washing it as some sort of battle for freedom against tyranny...NONE OF THEM DESERVE TO LIVE!

May every day that they continue to exist bring upon them nothing but torment and living Hell with no means of escape other than death.  Let that sentiment ring true for every drug addict that infests this world today.

Well, You better pray you never -ever- make a decision that ruins your life. Bad investment plan, put stock in the wrong company, decided to drive in adverse weather conditions, maybe you spend your life studying for a particular field of work only to have it made obsolete a year or two after graduation, maybe you marry the wrong woman and lose everything in a divorce settlement, or the wrong guy depending on your prefrence , hell maybe you just get taken by a ride from a conman who coearces you into a scheme that sounded reasonable ... and so many other variables, because in all likely hood there will be people who didn't make those decisions because they were -smarter-, I know you won't expect sympathy, which is fortunate, because you reap what you sow. I know of course you are the perfect being and will never make a life altering decision that will turn round and roundhouse you in the face, being so smart and all....

[Morroian]

stewie1974 wrote...

"La de dah, Amy Winehouse went out one day and decided to actively seek a drug dealer and said -you know what, i'd like to be, I'd like to be a crack head and take lots of drugs-" .... Of course some one coearced her...

Do you know that for a fact? Because it is quite possible for her to have got into them of her own free will.

[stewie1974]

Morroian wrote...

stewie1974 wrote...

"La de dah, Amy Winehouse went out one day and decided to actively seek a drug dealer and said -you know what, i'd like to be, I'd like to be a crack head and take lots of drugs-" .... Of course some one coearced her...

Do you know that for a fact? Because it is quite possible for her to have got into them of her own free will.

Yeah she just went out and said "being a crack head is a sane and rational thing to try"....

In which case, ya'll all right, addiction is a placebo and non existant, whatever rationale helps you sleep at night.

I'm pretty much done with this topic, it's like religion or politics or sexual politics.... people are going to be firmly rooted in their belief's one way or another.

I just hope if any of you have kids, and they do decide to go out and rationally decide that crack is a cool idea despite your advice.... it's their own fault because they are dumb, but just remmember it's inevitablly your spouse's dna that is to blame, as you would -never- had. Remmeber no one else would have had a hand in it......just your own dumb kid who deserves to die.

Modifié par stewie1974, 25 juillet 2011 - 12:00 .

[Turnip Root]

stewie1974 wrote...

Turnip Root wrote...

gamer_girl wrote...

Like I said, nothing was truly forced upon her, or anyone who takes drugs for that matter. Rape is a very bad comparison.

I've seen plenty of people in my school who take drugs. Would I do it just because they do? No, and other people should also have the audacity to be themselves instead of trying to conform to something that isn't them. I know what I want and a life full of bad health and an early death aren't on that list.

Yeah, I remember all those vermin back in high school who thought they were all cool taking drugs.  They thought they were such rebels, sticking it to the man and taking down the system.  To them, taking drugs was more than just about personal pleasure and escapism, it was revolutionary to them.

I cannot even begin to describe to you the level of satisfaction I feel that those same people are now suffering and have had their lives completely destroyed from their "revolutionary" behaviour.  I don't offer any solace over the fact that they started when they were young and stupid.  I knew better when I was younger and so should've they.
That pretentiousness, that arrogance.  That pathetic, audacious act of taking a destructive vice and white washing it as some sort of battle for freedom against tyranny...NONE OF THEM DESERVE TO LIVE!

May every day that they continue to exist bring upon them nothing but torment and living Hell with no means of escape other than death.  Let that sentiment ring true for every drug addict that infests this world today.

Well, You better pray you never -ever- make a decision that ruins your life. Bad investment plan, put stock in the wrong company, decided to drive in adverse weather conditions, maybe you spend your life studying for a particular field of work only to have it made obsolete a year or two after graduation, maybe you marry the wrong woman and lose everything in a divorce settlement, or the wrong guy depending on your prefrence , hell maybe you just get taken by a ride from a conman who coearces you into a scheme that sounded reasonable ... and so many other variables, because in all likely hood there will be people who didn't make those decisions because they were -smarter-, I know you won't expect sympathy, which is fortunate, because you reap what you sow. I know of course you are the perfect being and will never make a life altering decision that will turn round and roundhouse you in the face, being so smart and all....

Everybody makes bad and or immoral decisions.  What I do though is I live up to that mistake, learn from it, and become stronger because of it.  One thing I NEVER do is try to justify it as some sort of righteous action against a corrupt system like PC gamers do, or do it to look cool or fit into the "clubbin" scene like rap fans and drug addicts do.
When I screw up, I acknowledge that I did something stupid and change my behaviour.  I don't pretend that I'm fighting the civil rights movement of the 21st century.

I'm not perfect even though I'm pretty damn close to it and I think other people could benefit from trying to be more like me.

Modifié par Turnip Root, 25 juillet 2011 - 12:24 .

[Stanley Woo]

No longer on topic. Bans handed out.

End of line.